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Questions/Discussion/Tutorials Thread

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Posts

  • Zombies Tossed My Salad!Zombies Tossed My Salad! Registered User regular
    Thnaks Tripwire. I'm glad I asked before I wen't off posting and such. It's just that I get alot of insparation from art and it really helps me to write. This is acctually for a story that I am planning to write.

  • FalloutboyFalloutboy Registered User
    you could always team up with the guy in this thread who was unsure of what to draw.

  • thehomelymulethehomelymule Registered User
    For Spectral Swallow.

    http://www.portrait-artist.org/face/lips.html - I assume you got things like this when Googling (this was my first hit). Really, I don't see why you think drawing male lips should be very different from drawing female lips. There is as much difference from one race's lips to another as there is between male and female, so you really just need to find some reference and closely observe the shape of the lips.

    http://www.vh.org/adult/provider/anatomy/atlasofanatomy/ - This has lots of anotomy, which might help, but no nudes.
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1813 - lots of nudes.
    http://www.altavista.com/image/results?q=male+nude+reference&mik=photo&mik=graphic&mip=all&mis=all&miwxh=all&stq=40 - Altavisa's image search is sometimes better than Google.

    Edit: These are terribly small (requiring registration to get a full-sized copy), but might be clear enough to help you out, assuming you aren't looking to make an exact rendering from reference.
    http://www.3d.sk/nudemale/page_02.htm

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  • MisfitZMisfitZ Registered User
    As a supplement to the references already listed...

    http://www.saveloomis.org/
    http://www.fineart.sk/

    If you'd like a few full-size versions of some of the 3d.sk models, I could send them to you. They're too large to link, but if you want, I can e-mail a zip file. Especially if you use gmail, or have your own e-mail server. Don't bother asking if you use hotmail. :|

    Anyways, I'd suggest to anyone who is serious about art, if they haven't already, get the Andrew Loomis figure drawing books. They are possibly the best instructional material for novice and intermediate artists that I have seen, outside of an art studio. And they're absolutely free at that link.

    "..And then Man went on to prove that black was white, and got killed at the nearest zebra crossing."
  • DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
    Hey, I've been idling here for a while, and the reason you haven't seen any art work from me is I don't have a scanner. I'm planning on either buying a scanner or a wacom soon so that I can show you some of my work.
    While I do draw, I'm no where near as good as many of the people here. This lead me to wonder how many of you have or still do take art classes and how many have learned on their own? I've taken one class when I was 11, and I find it much harder to learn through internet tutorials.

  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    I've got 2 years of high school art, and I'm in my 4th year of art school right now. However, most of the useful stuff I've learned has been through reading books and internet forums, and of course, practice. Schooling is no replacement for getting stuff done on your own (though it does help).

    If you're just getting started (or even if you aren't, really), I'd reccomend checking out The Natural Way to Draw and Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain.

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  • Megamau_XMegamau_X Registered User
    If you're just getting started (or even if you aren't, really), I'd reccomend checking out The Natural Way to Draw and Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain.

    my teachers preach those books. there good reads.

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  • DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
    Thanks, I just ordered The Natural Way to Draw through amazon. Only 10 bucks used with shipping, not to bad.

  • tynictynic Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I want to take classes, but never seem to have the time. However, since I joined up here I've been doing about a million times more drawing than I ever have before in my life, and I can't believe how much I've improved. Just practising a lot will make you leap ahead in no time, especially if you're a beginner.

  • CriminalSavantCriminalSavant Registered User
    tynic wrote:
    I want to take classes, but never seem to have the time. However, since I joined up here I've been doing about a million times more drawing than I ever have before in my life, and I can't believe how much I've improved. Just practising a lot will make you leap ahead in no time, especially if you're a beginner.

    Ha, I didn't even start drawing until I joined this forum less then a year ago.

  • BadAssMonkeeBadAssMonkee Registered User
    tynic wrote:
    I want to take classes, but never seem to have the time. However, since I joined up here I've been doing about a million times more drawing than I ever have before in my life, and I can't believe how much I've improved. Just practising a lot will make you leap ahead in no time, especially if you're a beginner.

    Ha, I didn't even start drawing until I joined this forum less then a year ago.

    ditto. the only way i found about this place was through a guitar site. and i hardly play guitar anymore

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  • CriminalSavantCriminalSavant Registered User
    Thats a damn shame. I still play guitar like 2 hours or more every day.

    :( [Sorry 'bout the chat, mods]

  • E.C.M.E.C.M. Registered User
    tenacious practice is the key, agreed. just a year makes a huge difference.

    "I am a bucket of cock machine, ohhhhhh myyy gggggggggod!!!"-Tom
  • BadAssMonkeeBadAssMonkee Registered User
    Thats a damn shame. I still play guitar like 2 hours or more every day.

    :( [Sorry 'bout the chat, mods]

    i still play it but not so much than i used to.

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  • NoomNoom Registered User
    Alright I don't know if I can phrase this question properly but it's driving me crazy.
    Previously in working on my comic I've scanned stuff in and worked on it at 150dpi and then transferred it over to a 72dpi layout template and shrunk it down to fit nicely and arrange various pieces.
    Now I've realized I should be working in 300 dpi and only saving a 72dpi image for online viewing (keeping the 300 for the files)
    My problem is now my lines are all screwy and I have realized a whole slew of new problems.

    1. My line thickness is all messed up... things are way thinner than they were before. Now I understand this is because I am shrinking down more and merely need to use a larger pixel size when working on the 300dpi images but my problem is as follows:
    I'm still scanning and working on stuff in 300dpi but now transfer it to a 300dpi template and make some adjustments in size due to discrepancies in the original sketch sizes. These adjustments are enough to throw off the line thicknesses between two drawings. Perhaps this is clearer as follows:
    Say I have two characters sketched, scanned in, and worked on seperately. I then throw the two characters into the same frame only one of the characters who was sketched slightly larger originally now has to be shrunk down more than the second character. The line thicknesses between these two characters is no longer the same.
    Is there any way around this or do I merely need to make sure my original sketches are both to scale (or should I be doing adjusting after scanning)
    This becomes a bigger problem from comic to comic as sometimes my original sketches take up an entire page and sometimes only half.

    If anyone understands the dilemma I've just described and has a solution or suggestions I would greatly appreciate them.
    I think someone once mentioned to me to work with line sizes in point rather than pixels but I don't know what they were talking about or how to do it.

    My second question is:
    2. Is there any way to convert my old 72dpi images to 300dpi without having them look like a flaming pile of garbage? I'm trying to get some of my comics printed in a local paper but they only accept 300dpi.
    Am I pretty much screwed here with the old comics?

    Third question:
    3. Should I be working in 300dpi or in 600dpi then shrinking to 300dpi for a smoothing effect?

    Fourth Question:
    4. Is there a certain dimension to the layout of a comic that we should be using? We just arbitrarily chose our size of comic without ever really thinking and as anyone who has seen it will notice we have a lot of wasted space in terms of black bars. The paper we are submitting to wants either 2X10 or 4X10 and while I don't want to switch to those dimensions I'm wondering if we switched to a different type of dimension would it be easier to then alter the comic to this paper's demands...
    Basically is there some standard we should be working towards?

    That's all I've got for now.

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  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    I too have a comic related question, how do u take all of the cell's u have and put them onto one page?

    I really need to learn the ins and outs of photoshop one of these days, questions like these make me feel ignorant :oops:

    oh wait i am! :P

  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    Noom-
    1. Not sure if there's a way around that other than inking back over it.
    2. Probably not- you could try converting it to a vector image with Illustrator/Freehand/Flash. If you're inking digitally, this might be a good way to go. If they're inked traditionally, just rescanning them is your best bet.
    3. Higher resolution is always better. I haven't done much work for print, so I can't really say what youy should be working with. If you go with the vectorized solution it doesn't really matter.
    4. PvP changed their comic format awhile back for easy printing, because it's just easier sticking to one format than trying to reformat for two. I'd reccomend making the switch to a standard paper format, unless you've got some Scott McCloud-esque wierdo format stuff that's important. Just don't expect papers to run it.

    Doodman- Make a new picture. Now, open the picture with your panel. Right click the layer your panel is on in the Layer window. Hit Duplicate layer. Select the new picture. Click Ok. Viola, you've got your panel on a blank screen. Repeat this for all your panels until you've got them all on that new picture. Now, use the move and transform (ctrl+T) tools to layout the comic. Presto fantastico.

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  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
  • MrDominoMrDomino Registered User
    To Noom
    1)The easiest answer is to work in a size that is constant. For example, if your target veiwing size is 800 x 400 x 72dpi, work at twice that size and twice that resolution (or 150dpi in this case). That's a general rule, always work at twice your target format. There are exceptions, but for now that should be more than adequate. If you separate the panels in to entirely different PS documents, use reference document for measurement. In other words, since your working at 1600dpi wide (or twice 800), if each panel takes up one third of the width, use three documents that are precisely one third of 1600dpi wide. The same goes for print work. If your target print size is 9", draw the originals on 18" paper. If you want to draw the panels on separate sheets of paper, draw them each on 6" wide pieces of paper. Do all that layout and measurement ahead of time, it saves you a load of work later.

    But if you're already hip deep in work that has that problem, get a copy of Adobe Streamline or Corel Trace and use that to vectorize what work you have. You can then put a stroke or outline on the vector shapes to add your necessary line width or edit the nodes manually to get what you're looking for. As I'm sure Moss will tell you though, that is long and tedious work.

    2)You can do it the way Bacon suggested, but it will be a lot of work. There's only so much a tracing program can do, and it will take a lot of tweaking of the vectors to make them look right at print size. I really think you're just better off redrawing them. Again, an obvious solution, but one I learned the hard way: whenever you scan anything save the lineart as a separate file. I usually do filenameRAW.psd or filenameLINES.psd.

    3)Ideally you want to scan at 600dpi and resize to 300dpi for print. But working in 600dpi is not generally smooth unless you have a badass machine to crunch all that activity. Try scanning the lines at 600dpi then resizing them to 300 for coloring.

    4)I'm less versed in this than the others, but whenever I do design work I try as hard as I can to not use a standard paper format. I think many many people overlook the potential of unique formatting to make your work visually distinct. I was in a comic shop a few months ago and i picked up a book called Vertical that is printed on tall strips of bound paper. One panel across, five panels down. It was so cleverly done that I felt I owed it to the creators to buy it. Don't pass up opportunities to make your work original, BUT, make sure it makes sense for what you're doing artistically.

  • KageSARSKageSARS Registered User
    How exactly do you take advantage of non-photo blue's non-photo-ness??

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  • PeterAndCompanyPeterAndCompany Registered User
    Kage - I don't know the "proper" way of going about it, but this is how things work for me. I started using a blue non-photo pencil to do all my art, thinking that it would scan clearly. I just ink straight over top of the sketch and don't bother erasing any of the pencil underneath. Then when I go in to scan it, I set it to a "Black and White Bitmap" at 300 DPI and set the color range to Blue. This told the scanner to look just for straight black ink and ignore all the pencils.
    This was with my old scanner, though, which required I choose the color range before scanning. My new scanner just does it automatically and picks up just the ink without any problems in the B&W Bitmap setting.
    Supposedly the blue is also invisible if you try and do a straight photocopy, but I haven't tried it out myself.

  • Stupid Mr Whoopsie NameStupid Mr Whoopsie Name Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I was curious about the blue pencils myself. I gotta go pick up some art supplies and was debatinb nabbing one of those.

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  • ScrapdragonScrapdragon Registered User
    Where do you find those blue pencils? I'd like to try them out but can't find them in any of my local shops. (I've only been looking in the craft/hobby stores with drawing departments, since I haven't been able to locate any dedicated art-supply stores.) Is there a specific brand-name I should look for if shopping online?

    And if you end up drawing on lined notebook paper, would the same technique work for getting rid of the lines?

    Old swordmen get to be that way by being _very_ good.
  • BadAssMonkeeBadAssMonkee Registered User
    If the lines were blue then i guess so.

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  • red_wyrnred_wyrn Registered User
    i have a quick question,

    With most of my art I like to keep it in my sketch book until i've finished it.
    But keeping it in the book causes the art to smudge pretty badly. Is there any way to keep it from smudging and still be able to add more details and whatnot?

    oh yeah. one more thing: is there any real advantage to useing the blue pencils?

    Somewhere out there is a person just like me.... and i bet that he's boring as hell too.

    no drugs were used in the making of this art
  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    red_wyrn wrote:
    i have a quick question,

    With most of my art I like to keep it in my sketch book until i've finished it.
    But keeping it in the book causes the art to smudge pretty badly. Is there any way to keep it from smudging and still be able to add more details and whatnot?

    oh yeah. one more thing: is there any real advantage to useing the blue pencils?

    Depends on what medium you're using. You can put some wax paper or tracing paper over a page you want to preserve, and tape it on the back with painters tape (it has low adhesiveness).

    If you're using anything like charcoal or pastels you want to look into spray adhesive, though the wax paper is still a good idea for that as well.

    "The welfare of each of us is dependent fundamentally upon the welfare of all of us."
    Spoiler:
    -Theodore Roosevelt
  • thehomelymulethehomelymule Registered User
    Hairspray is a quick way to save a simple pencil sketch. If you are concerned about that, you can buy a simple spray fixative for not too much (just check the labels to see what mediums they will work with as there are different types).

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  • red_wyrnred_wyrn Registered User
    thanks, the tracing paper seems like a good idea (I have alot of that for some reason, but i have no idea where i came form)

    thehomelymule: can you draw over the hairspray, or is it just for the finished picture? (i normally only use pencil, i'm not really sure if that makes a diffrence though)

    Somewhere out there is a person just like me.... and i bet that he's boring as hell too.

    no drugs were used in the making of this art
  • thehomelymulethehomelymule Registered User
    I've drawn over hairspray and other fixatives before without problem. Just be sure before spraying that there isn't anything you might want to erase. :P

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  • red_wyrnred_wyrn Registered User
    well that makes sense.:D

    thanks again.

    Somewhere out there is a person just like me.... and i bet that he's boring as hell too.

    no drugs were used in the making of this art
  • MrDominoMrDomino Registered User
    There's also final and workable fixative as well. Any workable fixative will hold the image to a reasonable degree but still give you the option to interact with the medium if you need or decide to.

  • thehomelymulethehomelymule Registered User
    True dat.

    Also: MAKE SURE TO USE FIXATIVE IN A WELL-VENTILATED AREA. DO NOT SPRAY INTO FACE.
    Also also: We learn from doing!

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  • PifmanPifman Registered User regular
    New question: How does one make an online comic look the way your average online comic looks?? (Don't worry, I promise not to make my own and somehow make millions off of it, I'm just dying to know!) We might as well use the Penny Arcade comic for example... Now I'm a graphic designer, and I still can't figure out exactly how they do it without a LOT of work. (keep in mind I've never used a Wacom tablet, and I'm guessing the answer might have something to do w/that) My best guess, using the tools that I often use, would be this.

    1. Make a pencil sketch.
    2. Finalize the sketch with a sharper & darker pen or marker.
    3. Scan that in.
    4. Put it through Adobe Streamline??
    5. Touch up and color in Adobe Illustrator?? Or even Photoshop??

    If somebody could help me out here by telling me how step by step (as if I had a learning disability, which I don't) I would be VERY thankful. I'd probably try it out for my own enjoyment, because I like the style a shit load. And thanks in advance.

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  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    Gabe sketches the comic either on paper or in Alias Sketchbook Pro on a tablet PC. He the inks the comic digitally in Photoshop using the paintbrush tool and a wacom tablet. No vectors or anything.

    You can see a demonstration of how he inks here: http://www.penny-arcade.com/inking.wmv

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  • PifmanPifman Registered User regular
    Wow thanks man. I think that clears things up. But the part that says "on a tablet PC" do you mean a tablet like a wacom tablet, hooked up to his PC? I guess I'll have to check out some reviews for that "Alias Sketchbook Pro" program. And thanks for the vid link.

    [Edit] Now that I looked up that Sketchbook program, I see a couple things, I found out what a Tablet PC is, and I also found a tutorial by Gabe himself on the Official Alias website: http://www.alias.com/eng/community/tutorials/tutorial_117/penny_arcade_tutorial.html

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  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    What's the best format for compression?

    Whenever I shrink down, say a GIF, in photoshop it always looks a grainy mess.

    "The welfare of each of us is dependent fundamentally upon the welfare of all of us."
    Spoiler:
    -Theodore Roosevelt
  • thehomelymulethehomelymule Registered User
    If it's a .gif, it's likely in 256-colour mode. You'll need to change it to a higher mode, then shrink it.

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  • needOpticneedOptic Registered User
    Different formats for different images.

    Gif is FANTASTIC for low color count stuff. You won't have any artifacts, and it's going to be really small. (Good for text, too).

    Jpg's are great for photo-like images, with a high varience of tones / colors. It has great compression, but just like with everything - the greater the comp. the more artifacts.

  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    I see. Thanks guys.

    "The welfare of each of us is dependent fundamentally upon the welfare of all of us."
    Spoiler:
    -Theodore Roosevelt
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