Gerstmann fired from Gamespot, internet asplode, fallout continues.

Shoegaze99

Shadowfire wrote: »

BubbaT wrote: »

TheSonicRetard wrote: »

Hybrid wrote: »

TheSonicRetard wrote: »

titmouse wrote: »

http://vgmwatch.com/?p=1137

According to Hsu, Midway’s Mortal Kombat development team, Sony’s sports game division, and Ubisoft have all allegedly banned EGM from further coverage of their products. The reason: Apparently, they didn’t take too kindly to EGM’s review coverage of their games. Still, Hsu maintains that EGM “won’t treat these products or companies any differently.” We have yet to confirm these allegations with the publishers mentioned.

It is just alleged, but I doubt he would outright lie.

Can a company really ban you from covering their product?

Don't the companies send press stuff out? Maybe they just mean not doing that.

the way it was worded made it sound like they were forbidden to cover it at all... which doesn't seem constitutional. Maybe I'm reading too much into the phrase "banned from further coverage."

Disney and Lucas send out Cease & Desists for unauthorized use of trademarked characters. Couldn't Midway or Ubisoft do the same for EGM using images of Sub-Zero or Sam Fisher without permission?

Depends on how it's used. If the images are being used for reporting purposes, or parody, there's really not a thing the parent companies can do about it...

Exactly. An outfit like EGM would ve covered under Fair Use.

"Banned" is likely just a way of saying "they'll no longer send us press materials/do interviews," and yeah, that can hurt. Access has always been and will always be an important part of journalism, gaming or otherwise. Lack of access limits your ability to do thorough reporting.

BUT it need not be utterly tragic. UbiSoft and others like them know that in the long term, they need the EGMs of the world just as much as the EGMs of the world need them. Such freeze outs never last for that exact reason. And even while it lasts, EGM can continue to report, continue to attend trade shows, and so on and so forth.

Petty and bitchy by the Ubi folks, but not at all surprising. That kind of thing happens all the time in mainstream journalism, too.

Marlor

Rook wrote: »

Really it's the othe way around. Kane and Lynch has a lot of depth to it, especially with the ending. Gears of War is over the top badass and personally I find it a joke. But K&L manages to pull off the story it wants to very well.

Yeah. Fair enough. I haven't played the game, I've just watched videos of it.

It really didn't look like something I'd enjoy, and I can see why Gerstmann would have made the comments he did.

However, it looks like the characters appeal to a lot of people, and the story really polarises people, with many people loving it. That's fair enough, and I can't argue with that.

I guess the widely varying opinions of reviewers just show that reviews with a single opinion can reach different conclusions, depending on the personal tastes of the person doing the review. That's no surprise, and it's something that game publishers have to live with.

Noray

You can debate endlessly about the story and the writing/swearing, but that's just the silly thing - it was Jeff's opinion. Which is what reviews are. Obviously, the story didn't have the intended effect on him, on some people it did.

Anyway, Alex leaving was pretty unexpected to me. I would've expected it to happen sooner, if at all. It isn't surprising though, just the timing is. But seeing as Alex and Jeff are close friends, it isn't too surprising.

Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq3peQ1KciA

Found that sort of amusing

cloudeagle

Well, yet more editors are leaving Gamespot. From Wired's Game/Life blog:

Reviewer Jason Ocampo announced Tuesday that he would be leaving GameSpot for a new opportunity.

Ocampo broke the news on the most recent episode of GameSpot's podcast, the HotSpot. Ocampo didn't provide reasons for his departure,saying only, "It's not something I was thinking about or planning. Three weeks ago I had no idea I would be leaving. It's just something, it was time to move on, I had an opportunity."

http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/02/another-reviewe.html

Add this to another long-time editor who left in February:

Ryan Davis, an editor at GameSpot for eight years, has become the latest high-profile departure from the site, GameDaily reports.

Davis follows reviewer Frank Provo and reviews editor Alex Navarro, both of whom departed GameSpot in the wake of the controversial firing of editorial director Jeff Gerstmann.

The final entry in Davis' blog at GameSpot, written after Gerstmann's departure, reads in part: "Jeff's gone, and I'm not afraid to say that it absolutely breaks my heart... this marks the end of an era for both GameSpot and myself, a fact that doesn't seem to be getting any less upsetting for me."

One more crushing blow for GameSpot's editorial team; particularly its game review department. Davis, along with Navarro and Provo, was one of the site's more prolific review writers.

The stated editorial policy of GameSpot is that editors who have written previews of a game will not be allowed to review it, which means that remaining editors like Ricardo Torres won't necessarily be able to play ironman and pitch in with the review duties.

http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/02/one-more-longti.html

Wow. Things aren't looking good over there.

darleysam

Gamespot :^:

I don't actually think I've read anything there since this all kicked off. Eurogamer outclasses it so much.

LightRider

I like Ars' coverage.

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2008/02/27/gamespot-staff-dwindles-as-jason-ocampo-leaves

They have a link to Gerstmann's new podcast.

Kagera

I bet this leads to an all new site design involving more flash and splashy backgrounds.

polaris314

LightRider wrote: »

I like Ars' coverage.

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2008/02/27/gamespot-staff-dwindles-as-jason-ocampo-leaves

They have a link to Gerstmann's new podcast.

Yes, the Davis/Gerstmann podcast is pretty much what you'd expect from those two. They put up their first "official" episode recently, recorded in Jeff's living room, with Alex contributing as well.

Also, if we're keeping this thread alive, I suppose it's about time I changed the title.

Captain Eleven

Kagera wrote: »

I bet this leads to an all new site design involving more companies buying obscenely large ads and then thinking they can dictate the review scores.

I actually don't have much of an opinion on this, but the chance to do that could not be passed up.

Blue map

Ryan Davis still shows up as a staff member on the site.

brynstar

Jeff Gerstmann and Ryan Davis have started their own game-covering web site at www.giantbomb.com.

Yes!

Right now it's in blog format, but they're working to turn it into a full-fledged site.

See Jeff's blog about it here:

http://blog.jeffgerstmann.net/2008/03/06/sizable-explosive/

Sheep

Predictions:

Getting Up 2 - 9
Tony Hawk 13 - 8.5
Mario Kart Wii - 4 (Complains of having to "steer" with Wiimote)
Army of Two - 8 (Loves blinged out weapons)
Brawl - 5 (Complains of lack of boobies in Princess')

Oh, wait. They don't even review Wii games.

:roll:

Narian

Sleep wrote:

Oh, wait. They don't even review Wii games.

Jeff Gerstmann wrote:

The sections for Wii, PC, DS, and PSP will appear as we cover games on those platforms. We just haven’t written about any of those yet. Our first DS-related item will probably be a review of Professor Layton (which I still need to write).

It was in the comments section of his latest blog post.

Kuribo's Shoe

these guys started a new podcast, it's called Arrow Pointing Down if anybody cares

OremLK

I hope every single GameSpot user moves over to his site when it launches in the Summer. Would serve those CNET guys right.

cloudeagle

Rise from your grave!

Well, it's looking like the person who fired Gerstmann has himself gotten fired. From wired:

http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/04/gamespot-vp-get.html

Josh Larson, a key figure in GameSpot's "Gerstmanngate" fiasco, has gotten the sack, Kotaku reports.

Larson replaced GameSpot editor in chief Greg Kasavin and was GameSpot editor Jeff Gerstmann's supervisor when the controversy over Gerstmann's Kane & Lynch review began. When Gerstmann was fired last November, more than one finger was pointed at Larson's supposedly questionable editorial ethics as the cause.

In a post at Valleywag, a commenter calling himself "gamespot" suggested that Larson, "who had no editorial experience and was only involved on the business side of things," was more concerned with giving high scores to AAA titles than to actually reviewing them accurately.

He finished his post by saying "we're all hoping to get Josh Larson removed from his position because no one trusts him anymore." Whether or not "gamespot" really was a legitimate GameSpot employee, he is getting his wish: Larson's last day is this Wednesday, the 9th.

So, does this fix things?

brynstar

cloudeagle wrote: »

Rise from your grave!

Well, it's looking like the person who fired Gerstmann has himself gotten fired. From wired:

http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/04/gamespot-vp-get.html

Josh Larson, a key figure in GameSpot's "Gerstmanngate" fiasco, has gotten the sack, Kotaku reports.

Larson replaced GameSpot editor in chief Greg Kasavin and was GameSpot editor Jeff Gerstmann's supervisor when the controversy over Gerstmann's Kane & Lynch review began. When Gerstmann was fired last November, more than one finger was pointed at Larson's supposedly questionable editorial ethics as the cause.

In a post at Valleywag, a commenter calling himself "gamespot" suggested that Larson, "who had no editorial experience and was only involved on the business side of things," was more concerned with giving high scores to AAA titles than to actually reviewing them accurately.

He finished his post by saying "we're all hoping to get Josh Larson removed from his position because no one trusts him anymore." Whether or not "gamespot" really was a legitimate GameSpot employee, he is getting his wish: Larson's last day is this Wednesday, the 9th.

So, does this fix things?

I heard about that. I don't think it really "fixes" things, since Gamespot lost a huge amount of staff after the Gerstmann ordeal.

I felt like things were "fixed" when Jeff and Ryan Davis started Giant Bomb.

Cymoro

It doesn't fix how bad Kane and Lynch is.

SanderJK

Also, the parent company went through a huge layoff cycle just now, cutting 1200 jobs. So while this was probably a big factor in his firing, it wasnt like upper management lashed and said "You ass, you fucked up, gtfo", but instead went over loads of evulation reports and said "He appears to be a weak link, cut him".

Uselesswarrior

Plus it could be the latest move in a fine tradition of buck passing.

Henroid

It's likely not related at all. And while I'm glad the guy isn't in the position he was to do that to Gerstmann (if he did) I don't want to be an ass and be like, "GOOD NOW HES JOBLESS HAHAHA."

Bewildered_Ronin

While I am glad that they got rid of the guy (Larson), if he was indeed trying to fudge scores for advertised games (payola) or skew Gamespot's editorial procedures to suit advertisers, do I think this will fix things? Hardly. CNet management decided to forgo someone with actual editorial history for an MBA pencil pusher. That shows that they were focused on money instead of credibility. All I see is CNet upper management trying to save face with what long-time staff that they have left. It's easy to blame Larson, but I doubt he acted as a rogue agent. Much like a Nazi guard, I'm sure he was simply following orders set forth from CNet execs to raise revenue through whatever means necessary. CNet will probably try to replace Larson with someone that is more along the middle-ground of journalist and businessman, but their decision to put in Larson, to begin with, speaks volumes about their desired direction for Gamespot. Which is: Cash Cow to take advantage of a booming gaming industry that is reaping excellent profit margins that show no signs of leveling off or slowing down.

Also, shame should be heavily levied upon Eidos for complaining about bad reviews. It was Jeff's opinion and I can understand Eidos' fear of his word being taken as gospel without people actually trying the game, but expecting a reviewer to think your game is awesome and to see it explicitly from the company's point of view is an obnoxious and atrocious approach to media and advertising relations. If you get bashed, take it on the chin and learn from it instead of complaining and crying foul. Much like Sony's sports division, Midway's Mortal Kombat division, and Ubisoft bitching about EGM, it shows that these companies don't care about learning from their mistakes and making better games. They care about larger profit margins garnered from positive reviews that were reinforced through various media relations perks. (ie: free stuff)

In a weird way, I'm glad Jeff got fired. It sucks that he lost his job (I'm sure that probably really stressed and freaked him out), but it's what caused him to create Giant Bomb. I still read Gamespot, but, like it always was for me, mostly just for the news articles and not for the reviews. It's relieving to see that Jeff has landed squarely on his feet and that so many in the gaming community are psyched about his site. Good on him for taking a bad situation and making something great out of it.

Shoon

Yes, I'm resurrecting this thread, but have you people noticed that Gamespot's been very, VERY careful not to hand out low scores latery?

BlackDove

That's no reason to resurrect it.

FreddyD

I noticed that both of this year's high profile releases got perfect 10s, but I'm sure that's already been discussed.

Kagera

That's not unusual though, is it?

I'd be more interested in games that got lots of advertisement but ultimately turned out to be received as poor. If Gamespot happened to buck the trend then by giving that game a really high score then I'd be interested in why that was.

Gaming-Module

Shoon wrote: »

Yes, I'm resurrecting this thread, but have you people noticed that Gamespot's been very, VERY careful not to hand out low scores latery?

I absolutely hate Jeff Gerstman. It has nothing to do with Zelda and everything to do with his attitude during video reviews and that infamous video of the GS crew taking their collective first crack at the Wii.

That said, I haven't visited Gamespot more than a half dozen times since he was fired. I never really loved the site to begin with, but when I was bored it was on my list of sites to check up on for information and new posts about games.

Come to think of it, I really don't look at reviews period anymore, probably because Gamespot had somewhat of an air of ... I don't want to say credibility, but it had something that IGN and its lesser wannabe's never had.

Now I just fart around on Gametrailers.

Tiemler

Monty Python wrote:

cloudeagle wrote: »

Rise from your grave!

Well, it's looking like the person who fired Gerstmann has himself gotten fired.

Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked have been sacked.

KimFidler

I like Jeff

Arceus

Shoon wrote: »

Yes, I'm resurrecting this thread, but have you people noticed that Gamespot's been very, VERY careful not to hand out low scores latery?

Hah, I take it you never look at their Wii section. Always one or several points lower than the average on GameRankings (LostWinds being the most extreme example recently that I can think of). Their vendetta against the system is quite sad, really.

Tube

Grow up dude.

Also Shoon has received an infraction for necroposting a thread for no good reason.