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Iron Heroes : Saga Edition - how would you do it?

fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
edited December 2007 in Critical Failures
I'm sortof a sidelines fan of Iron Heroes. I've read it but never played it on account of my group having a long standing campaign running, everyone is having fun so for the foreseeable future I won't be seeing any tabletop IH.
Nonetheless, I've been tinkering together a campaign in my head just 'cause, and contemplating what an Iron Heroes : Saga Edition would look like. If I ever ran said campaign it would be my entire group's first IH experience so I wouldn't have to 'unteach' much, and I'd like to present something neat and intuitive. (SAGA)

What saga-esque changes would you import?
What would you not touch?

I think the fact that armor = DR makes the Defense changes fit neatly, but I'm not sure how well things like the saga skill system would port over. Iterative attacks are a big fat :?: for me. I like them being not there in Saga, but I'm not sure how impacted IH would be without them. I see alot of messy, fuzzy tweaking needed in the feats if you wanted to streamline them and especially to work in things like Double Attack and Triple attack, but with time and effort it could work well.


The intent of this thread is just discussion (I'm especially interested in what people who have "played the game" have to say :D)
but if this evolves into a collaborative project I will do my best to organize it / the OP to this end.
Also, if it spawns interest in a PbP, I wouldn't be comfortable running one but I'd play ;p

fadingathedges on

Posts

  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    My intuitive answer is just "Don't."

    SAGA is awesome. Iron Heroes is awesome. Both together? Probably less awesome.

    INeedNoSalt on
  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    My intuitive answer is just "Don't."

    SAGA is awesome. Iron Heroes is awesome. Both together? Probably less awesome.

    /agree

    It would be like dipping steak in chocolate ice cream.

    delroland on
    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
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  • MolotovCockatooMolotovCockatoo Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I haven't run Iron Heroes yet but I have all the books, and I've played Saga, and I'm with INNS and del - IH seems fine as is. Get Maticore in here, though - he's the IH expert.

    Tangentially, I might be interested in trying to run an IH campaign Pbp... I have a cool idea for a campaign at least. :P If I can get 3-4 people I know will post a lot, I'll write up some adventures!

    MolotovCockatoo on
    Killjoy wrote: »
    No jeez Orik why do you assume the worst about people?

    Because he moderates an internet forum

    http://lexiconmegatherium.tumblr.com/
  • fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Well that was easy :D


    and yes i am interested in fun, Molotov :)

    fadingathedges on
  • MaticoreMaticore A Will To Power Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    delroland wrote:
    It would be like dipping steak in chocolate ice cream.
    I haven't... Get Maticore... trying to run an IH campaign PbP... adventures!

    I'm in!

    Maticore on
  • TrenogTrenog Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I'm in too. I've been waiting for this since the actual Iron Heroes thread offered,

    Trenog on
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  • MolotovCockatooMolotovCockatoo Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    hmmmmm

    shall I be making with the thread making then?

    Maticore I'm afraid to DM an Iron Heroes game with you in it; you know more about it than I do :P

    MolotovCockatoo on
    Killjoy wrote: »
    No jeez Orik why do you assume the worst about people?

    Because he moderates an internet forum

    http://lexiconmegatherium.tumblr.com/
  • MaticoreMaticore A Will To Power Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Maticore I'm afraid to DM an Iron Heroes game with you in it; you know more about it than I do :P

    I would never betray that trust.
    ever.

    But I might call you on something if I think it's wrong (post that session).

    Maticore on
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    uh

    a while back

    ie when i first got the Saga book

    I went about converting Saga to a fantasy style game, made up new classes and races but pretty much stopped there.

    None of the classes I designed (Knight, Rogue, Warrior, Scholar) actually had magic built into them (although Scholars could take Gifted as a starting feat, Gifted being the magic equivalent to Force Sensitive)

    I've pretty much abandoned the idea but you could look here and it could inspire you maybe.

    Pony on
  • fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    i remember that!

    I'm torn now though. I really was looking to port in the action system (standard/move/swift etc) more than anything else, but I want to keep the great, steaky layers in the IH feat system. People Who Know Better advise against mixing at all, we'll see.

    What i may do is the following:

    -Basic IH system
    -use the standard/move/swift action set, and using a full round of iterative attacks uses up all three.
    -5' step is a swift action. one per round, perhaps class/level will unlock access to more per round if i want squirmier options.
    -handwaving actions into the appropriate categories as needed.

    -maybe import Double Attack & Triple attack for multiple attacks following a move. Used a swift action, so you can't couple it with iterative, and possibly a couple other choice feats. i'd have to look hard at the existing dual wield / extra attack related stuff existing in IH currently.

    fadingathedges on
  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Why?

    Do you know better than the guys who wrote Saga or the guys who wrote Iron Heroes?

    Fun Fact: Double and Triple Attack are full-round actions. How can you use them after a move?

    INeedNoSalt on
  • fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Why?

    Do you know better than the guys who wrote Saga or the guys who wrote Iron Heroes?

    Fun Fact: Double and Triple Attack are full-round actions. How can you use them after a move?

    Because.

    When it comes to what I want, yes I do.

    Funner Fact: I would rewrite them to fit, activated as Swift actions as mentioned above.

    Funnest Fact: Double and Triple Attack are not full round actions, technically.

    fadingathedges on
  • MolotovCockatooMolotovCockatoo Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    But you can already only make one 5 foot step in both Saga and Iron Heroes... right?

    MolotovCockatoo on
    Killjoy wrote: »
    No jeez Orik why do you assume the worst about people?

    Because he moderates an internet forum

    http://lexiconmegatherium.tumblr.com/
  • fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    There is no 5' step in Saga.

    fadingathedges on
  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Why?

    Do you know better than the guys who wrote Saga or the guys who wrote Iron Heroes?

    Fun Fact: Double and Triple Attack are full-round actions. How can you use them after a move?

    Because.

    When it comes to what I want, yes I do.

    Funner Fact: I would rewrite them to fit, activated as Swift actions as mentioned above.

    Funnest Fact: Double and Triple Attack are not full round actions, technically.

    "When you use the full attack action..."

    What you're doing will be a horrible abomination. Just keep that in mind.

    INeedNoSalt on
  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Funnest Fact: Double and Triple Attack are not full round actions, technically.

    They are, actually. Just to set the facts straight and all. :)

    Infidel on
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  • fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Technically they provide free attacks when you use a full attack action, but they are not full attack actions in and of themselves. Attacking with two weapons is a full attack action, and Double/Triple were designed so that a character could use both feats at the same time. It's all semantics, really, and I'm just poking them at Salt :P Facts are indeed Fun, and I heartily invite you to join in. :D

    I don't think retitling actions for clarity's sake and including some custom feats will spawn too much of an abom.

    fadingathedges on
  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    -maybe import Double Attack & Triple attack for multiple attacks following a move. Used a swift action, so you can't couple it with iterative, and possibly a couple other choice feats. i'd have to look hard at the existing dual wield / extra attack related stuff existing in IH currently.

    You are right, but this is wrong and is what we are referring to. :) It applies to a full attack action, not a standard action like you propose here.

    Infidel on
    OrokosPA.png
  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    It won't clarify anything. It'll just muddy up the waters of an otherwise consistent system.

    INeedNoSalt on
  • fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Infidel wrote: »
    -maybe import Double Attack & Triple attack for multiple attacks following a move. Used a swift action, so you can't couple it with iterative, and possibly a couple other choice feats. i'd have to look hard at the existing dual wield / extra attack related stuff existing in IH currently.

    You are right, but this is wrong and is what we are referring to. :) It applies to a full attack action, not a standard action like you propose here.

    Yes, the revision was meant to be implied. SandyBrown'd for emphasis.
    INNS wrote:
    It won't clarify anything. It'll just muddy up the waters of an otherwise consistent system.

    Maybe so... I'm going to re-read the book before I settle on anything. If my group was 100% new I'd probably lean towards the saga action labels, but they are all 3.5'ers already so it may be best to just keep as is. We'll see.


    edit~ I should clarify that I am the only book holder here, and they will all be working off things I type and print out as far as how IH works, so the blurbs I put together will be cohesive and canon (rather than having them headscratching at my variations while cosidering their own hardcopy). I would make a Challenges Packet, a Packet for each class that is played, etc... so we wouldn't have to pass around 1 copy.

    fadingathedges on
  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Infidel wrote: »
    -maybe import Double Attack & Triple attack for multiple attacks following a move. Used a swift action, so you can't couple it with iterative, and possibly a couple other choice feats. i'd have to look hard at the existing dual wield / extra attack related stuff existing in IH currently.

    You are right, but this is wrong and is what we are referring to. :) It applies to a full attack action, not a standard action like you propose here.

    Yes, the revision was meant to be implied. SandyBrown'd for emphasis.

    Yes, we know you are saying to change that. That's why we're saying it's horribly broken. :)

    Allowing a move and then multiple attacks with those feats really changes the balance of the entire combat, for no good reason that I can see.

    Infidel on
    OrokosPA.png
  • fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Oh I see. Yes it might be, especially with the way tokens generate for some classes.

    fadingathedges on
  • MolotovCockatooMolotovCockatoo Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Well well well, look what I stumbled across:

    http://ironsaga.pbwiki.com/

    Someone converting Saga rules to Iron Heroes! Looks pretty bare-bones, but you might get some ideas/inspiration.

    MolotovCockatoo on
    Killjoy wrote: »
    No jeez Orik why do you assume the worst about people?

    Because he moderates an internet forum

    http://lexiconmegatherium.tumblr.com/
  • fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    nice find, thank you :)

    i've been rereading the IH book and rethinking what I'd import. Let's see what these people did ^^

    fadingathedges on
  • MaticoreMaticore A Will To Power Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Well well well, look what I stumbled across:

    http://ironsaga.pbwiki.com/

    Someone converting Saga rules to Iron Heroes! Looks pretty bare-bones, but you might get some ideas/inspiration.

    That's Confused Jackal Mage, he's a pretty good guy with game conversions, you could message him to collaborate or bounce ideas off of him on the iron heroes boards at the iron heroes boards.

    Maticore on
  • MolotovCockatooMolotovCockatoo Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    BTW all, work progresses somewhat on my IH campaign, due to an apparent forced total 60 minute break time in online defensive driving courses (dear god it's horrible [the course, not the campaign]). Sometime soon after the holidays I'll start it up.

    MolotovCockatoo on
    Killjoy wrote: »
    No jeez Orik why do you assume the worst about people?

    Because he moderates an internet forum

    http://lexiconmegatherium.tumblr.com/
  • fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I think his skill adaptation kinda stinks :P I'd rather just keep as is, or swap to a Saga style skill system and do some condensing (Stealth, Mechanics, etc)... which he might prefer as well actually, he mentions some copyright issues with copying the skill system out and posting it on a wiki.
    Really though, the group allocation in IH already handles the condensing well enough. Leaving skills as-is, I think.

    Condition track and defenses will probably come, but the equipment bonuses to FortD from armor he's prescribing seem high.

    I still really, really want to dump iteratives. I'm away from my books for the holidays now but when I get back I plan to look through all the classes and see who this would help&hurt the most, go from there.

    dont beat me salty

    fadingathedges on
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