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RyeRye Registered User regular
edited October 2013 in Help / Advice Forum
Edit - Nevermind!

Rye on

Posts

  • saint2esaint2e Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Sounds to me like she likes you, but doesn't want to be "one of those girls" whose existence is validated by a boyfriend, and is taking it to the opposite extreme. She doesn't want to see dependent on you at all, which is why you're having to instigate.

    The fact that she is indeed calling you back when you leave messages and what not is, I think, an indicator that she is definitely into you, but I can understand why you'd feel the way you do.

    What I suggest is propose doing "something" on Saturday, and have her decide what you guys are going to do. That way you've asked her, and she therefore has the "power" in that situation. But at the same time, you can gauge exactly how into you she is by the activity she chooses.

    This may result in her taking the initiative and instigating dates going forward.

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  • EggyToastEggyToast Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    She's into you and you're dating. Ask her if it bugs her that you're setting stuff up.

    Seriously. Don't ask like "why don't you ever set things up," bring it up like you want to make sure that you guys are doing things she's into. So you ask by saying "hey, does it bug you that I set this stuff up? is there anything you had in mind that you wanted us to do? I don't want you to feel like I'm stepping on your toes or making you go to things you don't like."

    After all, it's an innocent situation -- you guys are going out and having fun and there's not really a problem, you're just unsure if you're being too forward or if she's not all that into you.

    || Flickr — || PSN: EggyToast
  • ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS
    edited December 2007
    "All men are evil" isn't a feminist view, incidentally. "In their own way" also kind of implies that they should "stick to what women are best at". Just pointing out things, not calling you anything, it's just that how people talk about things is a big focus in feminism, and thus a potential minefield conversation-topic if you haven't looked into it a little bit. Though if feminist is your word and not hers, there's a reasonable chance that it doesn't matter.

    DAMM
    Drunks Against Mad Mothers
  • RyeRye Registered User regular
    edited October 2013
    Edit - Nevermind!

    Rye on
  • GihgehlsGihgehls Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    It sounds like you've planned plenty of stuff already, you don't have anything to prove there. Just tell her you want to do something on Saturday and for her to decide what. She might like you so much that she is afraid of suggesting something that you won't like. Did you consider that?

    Comedy option: you can say you want to hang out on Saturday and then suggest something really, really awful, to see what she says.

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  • RyeRye Registered User regular
    edited October 2013
    Edit - Nevermind!

    Rye on
  • EggyToastEggyToast Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Rye wrote: »
    I mean, like I just said, I do say something similar, but it seems like a real dick/loser move. I don't want it to seem like I don't care enough to plan something and I don't want to seem like a spineless little boy who barely has the confidence to ask a woman out, let alone plan something.

    If I'm wrong, I'll be glad to hear it. Right now it almost feels like a trap, which is why I've never stopped to question or address this directly with her.

    No, it's not a dick move. I've had friends I always had to initiate things with. Even if they DID have opinions on what they wanted to do, and it was pulling teeth to get them to do things.

    With my wife, dinner is a pillow minefield (because it's not really that bad). I do the vast majority of the cooking, so I'm usually stuck coming up with what to make. And I usually don't find out that she's sick of something until I plan it out. This summer she became sick of broccoli for about 2 months. I'd hear a lot of "I don't care what we eat" but what it really meant is that she didn't care.

    In other words, you shouldn't assume that she's hiding something. Some people don't like planning things, or making decisions that affect another person. You're somewhat apprehensive about it yourself (making decisions for her) so it's understandable how someone could be that way. But at face value, you should assume that if you make plans and she "doesn't care" where you eat, then it's true -- she doesn't care. When I've got friends who don't care where we eat, I use it as an excuse to go somewhere new and interesting ;D

    Anyway, I would assume it's a trap only if she didn't call you back sometimes. If she's responding to nebulous plans or just plain gettin' together, then she's into you -- she just doesn't have much opinion on what you do together.

    || Flickr — || PSN: EggyToast
  • oncelingonceling Registered User
    edited December 2007
    I don't think you're overthinking things too much, I think its a natural reaction to what you're seeing.

    I think some shy girls don't want to come off as too clingy and if they don't have a healthy self-esteem they may mope around thinking *you* aren't that into them. Ridiculous, considering you are making above-average effort but I *am* one of those girls so I can't explain why I'm that way, it just happens :|

    If you stop calling, she might let it die (yep, I'd probably do this, I suck, I know).

    The good thing is that as she trusts you more she will probably start to initiate things. Keep an eye on it but I say give it more time. Some of the other advice in this thread is a pretty good way to kick start her efforts but it might also come with trust if she *is* just shy (I could be wrong).

  • RyeRye Registered User regular
    edited October 2013
    Edit - Nevermind!

    Rye on
  • seasleepyseasleepy Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Is it possible it just doesn't occur to her usually? That's how it is for me.

    It's not something I do intentionally, I'm just a really introverted person. If I don't have anything planned on a given night, it honestly doesn't occur to me that "I haven't hung out with X in a while, I should call him up and figure out something for us to do," even though I may be wondering how X is doing and why haven't we hung out in a while, I always have a blast hanging out with X. I have to remind myself occasionally that other people don't work the same way I do, and will start assuming things if I don't initiate contact sometimes.

    I don't mind planning stuff at all really, but it's something I have to do consciously, and I still sometimes need prods from my friends to remind me that it's been my turn to set things up for a while.

    It's possible I might just be projecting here, but you might consider just a gentle comment that you'd like it if she picks out what to do next time you go out. Frame it as wanting to get to know her better if you're worried about that coming out harsher than you intend.

    It was amusing to have Massachusetts as part of our country, but now, of course, like so much of the coastal nation, it no longer qualifies as America.
  • mtsmts Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    could just be that she is indecisive and is much happier having someone else make the decisions for her.

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  • RyeRye Registered User regular
    edited October 2013
    Edit - Nevermind!

    Rye on
  • TrowizillaTrowizilla Registered User
    edited December 2007
    As VC said, "all men are evil" isn't even remotely a feminist view. It's a stereotype, and rather an offensive stereotype; I'm sure you didn't mean it like that, but it's better to avoid passing on that sort of thing. She doesn't want you to "treat her like a lady," which means going out of your way to be chivalrous and all that crap, likely because it's entirely superficial. Open doors for her if you happen to be in front, but don't make a huge production about running ahead to get them. Do nice things for her because you like her, and have them be the sort of nice things that she likes, not the ones some general idea of "female" is supposed to like.

    It does sound like you're overthinking this. She likes you, or she wouldn't be dating you. You like her, or you wouldn't be dating her. Therefore, don't think so much about how you're coming off, since there doesn't seem to be a problem on your end. All the worrying over "am I too clingy?" and "do I seem too available" will drive you crazy. There's nothing wrong with being available, as long as you're not dumping your other plans to hang out with her.

    As for trying to get her to make more plans, there's a couple of good suggestions above, ask her what she wants to do next at the end of the date. "Hey, that was fun; what do you wanna do next time?" Besides, you're in college; she may just not really be used to scheduling hang-out sessions.

  • RyeRye Registered User regular
    edited October 2013
    Edit - Nevermind!

    Rye on
  • GihgehlsGihgehls Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    You've been seeing her. She is a girl you've been seeing.

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  • [Tycho?][Tycho?] Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Advice: dont over think. Yes, you are overthinking right now. I know its hard, I'm the same way. It really, really doesn't help. You start to over-analsyse everything, every little thing they say or do or dont do, you ask yourself "what does that mean, how should i respond". It doesn't work. You spin yourself into a great bit stressfull ball trying to work out every little detail.

    Just sit back, and dont think about it.

    Now, I know this is hard. It took me years, but I dont really do it anymore. You can stop it, and believe me, everything is so, so much easier when you just wing it.

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  • Shark_MegaByteShark_MegaByte Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Be up front about it.

    Tell her that it doesn't kill you to set up your activities, but that having to do it all the time would be a burden. Ask her to think about some things you can do soon, and then after one or two more dates, ask her to call you next time with something to do. ie "okay, your turn now."

    I would think a girl with a somewhat feminist outlook would appreciate this because it shows that you're looking for a partner rather than a follower.

  • TrowizillaTrowizilla Registered User
    edited December 2007
    Rye wrote: »
    Open doors for her if you happen to be in front, but don't make a huge production about running ahead to get them. Do nice things for her because you like her, and have them be the sort of nice things that she likes, not the ones some general idea of "female" is supposed to like.

    Definitely. I would never run up to a door to hold it open. It's way too spastic and superficial. But how would I find out what "she" likes? I don't expect to hear something from her every time I do something and I'm sure as hell not going to ask every time I do something small.

    Also, I never addressed this in my first post really: I AM technically dating her, right? I mean, neither one of us has said anything overtly and I really haven't said anything to my friends who happen to know her. If I was asked, I really wouldn't know what to say in front of her. On the one hand I do like her, but I don't want to interpret her feelings for her. Is it fucking ridiculous to ask HER if we're dating? I mean, what we've been doing while we hang out is incredibly benign, possibly could be construed as just being good friends - going to movies and eating at restaurants. Nothing sweepingly romantic.

    I think I've made my intentions as clear as possible, but there's always a chance of miscommunication. Any ideas?

    Well, are you kissing her? Doing sexual things? That's generally a good sign of "dating." If you're not yet and you want to be, try kissing her and see what happens. At some point, you should bring up whether the two of you want to be exclusive, talk about expectations, etc. If you want to be this girl's boyfriend, don't worry about talking to her too much! Hang out with her as much as you want to, don't be afraid to mention when you need alone time, and listen to her when she expresses her own needs, and you'll be fine.

    As to how to know what she likes, does she smile when you do something? Say "Thank you"? Act happy? Then she likes it. If she mentions that she absolutely loves chocolate and you get her chocolate as a present, that's something that she personally likes, but if you get her chocolate because "all women love chocolate lol" it's impersonal and not as good. You'd be miffed if she got you a football jersey because "all men love football" and it wasn't something you liked or ever indicated you were into, right?

  • UnderdogUnderdog Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I think Eggy had it pretty spot on. He usually does with these relationship things. Just talk to her but don't be all accusatory because really, you're not accusing her of anything. You're just wondering why she doesn't try to set things up.

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  • RyeRye Registered User regular
    edited October 2013
    Edit - Nevermind!

    Rye on
  • EggyToastEggyToast Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    If she's 22 and had previous boyfriends, and you've been "dating" for a month and haven't kissed yet, then she's probably not sure what the hell is going on and figures you don't like her.

    My wife is a very independent person, very feminist, but when we were first dating she was pretty freaked out when I didn't kiss her when I had her over for a movie on our 2nd date. I told her at the end of the night that I liked her a lot but I hadn't dated anyone in a while so I didn't want to rush things. She told me that she thought I didn't like her, or she had bad breath or something. So I hugged her, gave her a nice kiss, and she left.

    If I hadn't said anything, or if I had been all "I don't know, she's being shy or something" it probably would've fizzled out because she would've thought I didn't like her, or was gay, or whatever. Look, people adjust their behavior around other people to better fit in -- most people don't swear around their friend's parents, guys won't tell penis jokes around girls and girls won't talk about their last ob-gyn visit around guys. This isn't rocket science, she's probably being shy or not picking out things to do because she a) actually isn't that into you or b) figures you won't kiss her anyways and don't like her so what's the freaking point of going out?

    In other words, now that you mention that she's probably confused and is wondering why you keep calling her to do things if you're not interested in going out with her. I'm of a firm opinion that it's not a date if there's no obvious signs of affection, especially once you're out of high school. Unless you're hardcore religious, what's the holdup!

    || Flickr — || PSN: EggyToast
  • RyeRye Registered User regular
    edited October 2013
    Edit - Nevermind!

    Rye on
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Bah. Stop being shy. :P Seriously, if the moment calls for a kiss... DO IT. You'll be kicking yourself in the ass later.

    Games completed recently: Resident Evil 4: HD Edition, Typing of the Dead: Overkill, Sleeping Dogs, Dishonored, On the Rain Precipice of Darkness 1-4.
  • EggyToastEggyToast Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    screw moments, you like the girl, she likes you, you don't have to pet her tonsils on the first kiss. Next time to see her, greet her with a kiss on the lips. Ta da, problem solved!

    || Flickr — || PSN: EggyToast
  • RyeRye Registered User regular
    edited October 2013
    Edit - Nevermind!

    Rye on
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Nah. The moment I'm talking about is when you're sitting there KNOWING she's thinking about it, and you man up and lean in 80% of the way. She'll come to you, and it'll be the best damn thing ever. :) Good luck Rye.

    Games completed recently: Resident Evil 4: HD Edition, Typing of the Dead: Overkill, Sleeping Dogs, Dishonored, On the Rain Precipice of Darkness 1-4.
  • TrowizillaTrowizilla Registered User
    edited December 2007
    Rye wrote: »
    EggyToast wrote: »
    screw moments, you like the girl, she likes you, you don't have to pet her tonsils on the first kiss. Next time to see her, greet her with a kiss on the lips. Ta da, problem solved!

    Wow - I was starting to type a response that went something like this:

    I'm don't live in a movie, I don't hear birds chirping or cheesy pop music when I look into her eyes. How would I know when a moment like that comes up without my slow rock in the background?


    But then you responded and answered. It'll be tough for me to do this, but I'll try and psyche myself up to not chicken out. Good advice once again, eggy.

    Man, nobody gets "signs" like that, and everyone is nervous for a first kiss, the girl included. I know this sounds unromantic, but the first kiss is something you want to get over. Like sex, the first time with a new person is usually awkward, because you haven't adjusted to each other's styles yet and everyone's scared, so you want to move on to later kisses as soon as you can. Wait until you're somewhat alone (not everyone is into PDA) and there's a pause in the conversation, and then lean over and kiss her. Problem solved!

    And yeah, if I was dating a guy for a month and he hadn't kissed me, I'd think he didn't like me either. At least hold her hand while you're waiting for a kissable moment? Just slip it into hers when you're walking side by side, or at the movies, or whatever. She's probably dying for a sign that you "like" like her.

  • RyeRye Registered User regular
    edited October 2013
    Edit - Nevermind!

    Rye on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    And the date itself, was there actual romantic content? A problem I've had recently, is in the early dates, if you would look at the dialogue of the entire evening, it could just as easily be between two friends. It's good that she initiated something, but did you discuss anything overtly romantic or affectionate, or kiss etc?

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  • VThornheartVThornheart Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Rye wrote: »
    Unless you're hardcore religious, what's the holdup!

    I told you! I'm all flavors of trigger shy. Not at all religious, really.

    Also, she never mentioned having been in a relationship previously. I've pretty much known her for her entire college experience and she mentions not having fond memories of high school, so I decided not to pry.
    I told her at the end of the night that I liked her a lot but I hadn't dated anyone in a while so I didn't want to rush things

    This is precisely how I feel. I'm already pretty set on remedying this next time I see her. Thanks for calling attention to this. It's really helped me focus on what I need to do and stop worrying about being "inconvenient". I'm just.... terrible at dating I guess.

    That's okay, the grand majority of people are terrible at dating and don't really know what to do... which should be comforting to you, because the odds are heavily in your favor that she may be thinking the EXACT same thing you are ("do I make a move? When? How?"), and she'll be relieved when you do. If she's not relieved/happy about it, then at least you'll know where she stands in relation to you.

    EDIT: Ah, I should have read the whole thread before responding. Looks like problem solved already. =)

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