D&D 4th Edition: 1 day until multiclassing Preview. (38)

Trenog

Der Waffle Mous wrote: »

Is...

Is that fanart of the gnome in the flash cartoon?

Yes, yes it is. Original source:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=968158&page=2&highlight=gnome+tiefling

Thanatos

I think gnomes sucked in 3.5 because they had anything cool pretty much designed out of them. The only thing they were even mildly good at was being an illusionist or bard, which pretty much automatically relegated them to a support role. I think they could be made cool, but I'm not sure whether or not they will be.

Also, how do the people at ENworld or RPG.net talk about 4th Edition?

Quoth

So far, from what I've read on ENWorld they're just reporting the facts, ma'am.

I guess it's just as well that bards are gone, because everyone made fun of me for playing one. Even though I usually killed more monsters than anyone else except the fighter. Pfft.

Mr_Rose

@Incenjucar: If you're still letting people sign up for your 4e Core only game then consider me signed up, but I might have missed a few semesters of DnD 101, so I have no idea what class I want to be.

@everyone else: Can we please please separate out our opinions on the mechanics of the game from our opinions of the new core setting? Just because you think one sucks doesn't mean the other one has to, or even that you have to think it does in order to be "cool."

Marshmallow

Hey Incenj, I too would be up for an online game come 4th, I'd like to see how their online features will come together and if Pony's right about humans having race specific warlock goodies I would love to try that out.

I'd probably go warlock regardless of race, I wanna see how strikers will work and this is as good a chance as any.

Quoth

Can I say that having read a bit more, I appreciate that they are assuming constant passive Search instead of making the player/DM sit there and roll Search checks over and over and over...

Because that always drove me up the goddamn wall. Of course we're searching, we're in a dungeon!

Incenjucar

Okay, I've updated my roster list with those I've seen raise hands... looks like two absolutely full campaigns provided every single person's schedule works out, and I know there's a few other people on the boards interested who I've missed.

Hopefully this will encourage some other dDMs (that's right, I'm coining an acronymed form of digital Dungeon Masters, just you try and stop me) to pop up. Gotta spread the love a bit.

If anyone else wants to get thrown up on the front page as a DM, shoot me a PM or somesuch and I'll slide your data into my post; I don't mind helping to organize things a bit.

If enough PAers fall head over heels for 4E (oh please 4E prove worthy of our love), it would be interesting having a combined site or something for it beyond the smattering of threads.

Inquisitor

When I think about it, changing the high elf name to Eldarin makes a lot of sense. I mean, a race named High Elves doesn't really make a lot of sense. It feels more like a word humans would have come up with when first meeting elves and finding the need to differentiate between them.

"Who were we going to negotiate with again? The elves from the woods or the elves who think they are above everyone else?"
"The latter, the elves that think they are so high and mighty."
"Stupid high elves"

I just can't see the more noble human bloodlines or something going around calling themselves High Humans.

Incenjucar

From now on, a high elf will just be an excuse for their laziness. And the munchies.

INeedNoSalt

I'd probably run a 4e game or play in one.

But I'm not crazy enough to say so months in advance.

Dortmunder

Some stuff from the Enworld thread on Worlds & Monsters

Some more details:

The Temple of Elemental Evil is mentioned as a Location of Note. This section is said to contain 'future adventuring locales'...

Dragons:

Bunches of stuff here, the highlights include:

The different colors of Dragon have different monster roles - in other words, some are artillery (blue), some are brutes (white), some are soldiers (red) and so on

Dragons are solo monsters who 'get to do more on their turn than most monsters do' and also 'get to do a lot when it's not their turn' (like the tail slap we already knew about, but also mentioned is the green dragon's ability to poison you if you get too close)

Dragons have fewer abilities, focused on the most iconic ones (continuing the theme). For example, the oldest black dragon is said to have only five possible standard actions, with unique magical abilities taking the place of spells simply taken from the wizard's lists.

Dragons aren't forced into specific 'alignments'. Their motives can vary from a baseline - chromatic are wild, metallic like to be in control but good and evil manifests in each.

There are two new flavours of metallic dragon which displace bronze and brass from the core group. The new metallics are Iron and Adamantine.

Chromatic dragons grow in raw elemental power as they age which manifests as unique new powers related to the appropriate element. An ancient red's breath weapon, for example, can 'scour the fire resistance right off you'

An all new look and set of powers for the green dragon; they are back to breathing poison!

Giants:

There are Huge versions of the standard giants called Titans - these are more closely tied to the elements and have greater power

Giants in general are more elemental in nature, and there is greater variety between the standard types

The Giant type is specifically for Giants. Trolls, ogres, ettins don't 'necessarily' have the Giant 'type'


Underdark:

Now considered easier to get to

Mentioned are Drow, Troglodytes, Mind Flayers, Kuo-Toas (aboleth servant/worshippers), aboleths, myconids

Vault of the Drow is mentioned as an Underdark Location of Note


Feywild:

Mentioned inhabitants include hags, yeth hounds, centaurs, eladrins, treants, fomorians, unicorns, elves, firbolgs, the Wild Hunt, red caps, quicklings, will-o'wisps, dark ones, pixies

There is a fey reflection of the underdark, ruled over by fomorians

The Isle of Dread is mentioned as a Location of Note

Gnomes are a possible fey-dwelling race

Pixies, well, don't want to ruin the surprise


Shadowfell:

Merges Negative Energy Plane and Plane of Shadow, removing the irritating bits that make these places a pain to visit

Shadow is a power source. Involved with stealth, illusion, dread, 'devastating enemies' and 'necrotic energy'

They've re-concepted the undead, adding the animus, providing 'vitality and mobility', as a companion to the soul and the body.

Very interesting descriptions of how different varieties of undead are now explained. Shadow are the animus freed of body and soul, for example.

Lots of details about how the new cosmology explains resurrection and reincarnation

Shadowfell is inhabited by ... the Shadar-kai.

Der Waffle Mous

Inquisitor wrote: »

When I think about it, changing the high elf name to Eldarin makes a lot of sense. I mean, a race named High Elves doesn't really make a lot of sense. It feels more like a word humans would have come up with when first meeting elves and finding the need to differentiate between them.

"Who were we going to negotiate with again? The elves from the woods or the elves who think they are above everyone else?"
"The latter, the elves that think they are so high and mighty."
"Stupid high elves"

I just can't see the more noble human bloodlines or something going around calling themselves High Humans.

Actually, I believe one of the terms for the Numenor in LOTR was "High Men"

And, I'm thinking they may need a more exotic name than "elves" if they're going to work like this.

Litejedi

Ardent:

If I am making assumptions about the new edition, then you are very clearly making a LOT of assumptions about me. Which is interesting since I have never spoken to you before, on the forums, or in real life and as a result of this you haven't the slightest idea where my motivations lie, or even what my opinions are. I have stated on a number of occasions that I think the mechanical changes seem quite good for RPGing in general.

The problem is, I don't care for the core setting, I don't care for Living Forgotten Realms, and I don't care for the general feel of edgier, darker things that the new setting SEEMS to aspire to. I don't care for what I see as arbitrarily getting rid of or adding things, and it seems that while the people who are designing the new edition of the game are quite good at game mechanics, they are EXTRAORDINARILY uninspired at doing world design, and have little-to-no respect for things that exist in the game that people like. Just because something is a sacred cow, does not automatically mean it is bad. I don't care for the idea that they're pandering to a particular group of people, or even pandering to anyone, and that's all I see 4th edition as being, a way to pander to a) anime fans b) goths c) emo kids d) powergamers. At least, from a "fluff" perspective. Not that any of this crap will matter, because I will buy the book and play in a non-core setting, that being said, I DO NOT LIKE THE CORE SETTING. IT SOUNDS LIKE IT WILL SUCK BALLS.

That's all I'm saying.

Horseshoe

chamomile tea.

delroland

ravensmuse wrote: »

I kind of wish they were Planescape tieflings, with matching DiTerlizzi art.

Man, that curvy tiefling with checkered pants in the Planescape Monster Compendium was HAWT.

SUPERSUGA

So yeah... I think I'll buy the Player's Handbook when it arrives and give this a go. I was ready to mark myself down as being completely off D&D but enough of the stuff I've heard has drawn me back to warrant a purchase, I think.

The strange thing is that the stuff I'm excited about is somewhat closely related to the stuff I didn't like in 3e. I've never been a huge fan of combat-heavy RPGs, always wanting to play very story-based games of D&D. Some of these new additions and refinements have me excited about creating characters that are fun to use in combat and fighting really interesting encouners using miniatures and everything. This feels strange but it's something I'm looking forward to trying out. Definitely feels like a game with a tighter focus and that's something I can get on board with.

Oh, and setting.

I don't expect much in the way of setting from a set of D&D Core books, so this "points of light" thing is actually kind of cool to me. I'd rather they willingly go ahead and stick in a few modular setting pieces that can be taken or left than try and pass off a collection of half-baked ideas as a full setting. The whole "monsters are everywhere" thing feels somewhat suitable for the tighter focus on combat too. Let the full settings have their own book. If I like the way 4e plays I may actually get around to playing in Eberron. Always liked the setting but not 3e.

Thanatos

Inquisitor wrote: »

When I think about it, changing the high elf name to Eldarin makes a lot of sense. I mean, a race named High Elves doesn't really make a lot of sense. It feels more like a word humans would have come up with when first meeting elves and finding the need to differentiate between them.

"Who were we going to negotiate with again? The elves from the woods or the elves who think they are above everyone else?"
"The latter, the elves that think they are so high and mighty."
"Stupid high elves"

I just can't see the more noble human bloodlines or something going around calling themselves High Humans.

I think the better question is "the stuck-up gay elves that live in towers, or the stuck-up gay elves that live in trees?"

DisruptorX2

The only time I've ever been impressed with any sort of elf in fiction was Tolkien's Noldor. Superhuman warriors with superhuman pride that destroyed them. And I should add, I disliked his other elves, which are the ones D&D adapted for its settings.

I really don't like elves. I'd actually rather a party of gnomes.

Lardalish

Incenjucar wrote: »

Okay, I've updated my roster list with those I've seen raise hands... looks like two absolutely full campaigns provided every single person's schedule works out, and I know there's a few other people on the boards interested who I've missed.

Hopefully this will encourage some other dDMs (that's right, I'm coining an acronymed form of digital Dungeon Masters, just you try and stop me) to pop up. Gotta spread the love a bit.

If anyone else wants to get thrown up on the front page as a DM, shoot me a PM or somesuch and I'll slide your data into my post; I don't mind helping to organize things a bit.

If enough PAers fall head over heels for 4E (oh please 4E prove worthy of our love), it would be interesting having a combined site or something for it beyond the smattering of threads.

Awesome.

The only problem I see is that the manuals are spread out over 3 months. So it might be a while till we play even after the PHB comes out.

(also: if we get too many defenders I have no problem jumpin ship to another role, I want to eventually try everything. Defender is just my first choice.)

Inquisitor

Litejedi, why the hell do you care so much about the setting they are making for 4th edition? The setting is not hard-coded into the rules, so if you don't like it, don't USE it. There, problem solved, that was so hard?

By the way, just to let you know you sound like an old fogy stamping his cane on the ground shouting "Back in my day kids watched cartoons made in america and they liked it god damnit"

Lardalish, the manuals being spread out over 3 months isn't really all that bad of a thing. It gives the players plenty of time to sit down and actual take a good long hard look at the rules and figure out what character they want to make mechanics wise.

Pony

the core books being spread out over three months is basically how retailers want it

wotc would like to release all three books at once, but the retailers will shit a cat over that

Inquisitor

Why would retailers get upset over that? If all three come out at the same time they would have plenty of people snapping up all three at once. If they release them over 3 months they have plenty of time for people to buy one book, realize they don't like 4e and then not buy anymore, or something.

Nightslyr

I haven't actually played a D&D game since around '94, when my brothers and I would play AD&D 2nd Edition Forgotten Realms games. They were fun, but most of the sessions revolved around rolling dice for every little thing and looking up rules (I always had a habit of forgetting the specs of my mage's spells) instead of actually adventuring.

I've followed along with D&D 3e, even though I never played a game of it (no one to play with ). The rules seemed more streamline, but I generally skipped the combat section. It seemed too bloated still.

I'm cautiously optimistic with 4e. It seems as though the devs are actively trying to remove the bloat from all of the systems within the game, which is fine by me. More playing, less system to hack through is a good thing.

So, sign me up for the board's game. I'm not sure what class to choose. It'll be either rogue, warlock, or that spellsword thing (the defender class briefly mentioned that uses magic for their armor powers).

Litejedi

Inquisitor wrote: »

Litejedi, why the hell do you care so much about the setting they are making for 4th edition? The setting is not hard-coded into the rules, so if you don't like it, don't USE it. There, problem solved, that was so hard?

The problem is, that becomes the default setting for damn near everyone, and it changes the way people percieve the game. Everyone here says "Oh well the core stuff sounds like rubbish, we'll do something else" but many people will not. Most people I would say, will not disgard these rules.

delroland

Pony wrote: »

the core books being spread out over three months is basically how retailers want it

wotc would like to release all three books at once, but the retailers will shit a cat over that

Erm, I'm not sure about the retailer thing, but WotC's original plan was to release one book a month, just like they did for 2nd Ed, 3E, and v3.5, but they recently changed that for undisclosed reasons.

The current release schedule per the WotC site is all three books in June.

delroland

Inquisitor wrote: »

By the way, just to let you know you sound like an old fogy stamping his cane on the ground shouting "Back in my day kids watched cartoons made in america and they liked it god damnit".

I want to see WotC contract Hanna-Barbera to do the art for 4E.

Horseshoe

delroland wrote: »

Inquisitor wrote: »

By the way, just to let you know you sound like an old fogy stamping his cane on the ground shouting "Back in my day kids watched cartoons made in america and they liked it god damnit".

I want to see WotC contract Hanna-Barbera to do the art for 4E.

Cover art: Thundarr, Ookla, Ariel.

Puscifer

I don't get why people think that the setting is going to be this stripped down piece of shit with no backstory. They're still going to publish novels, they're still going to publish campaign guides, they're still going to come out with history for FR so there's going to be enough backstory to go around.

The only thing I don't like about the new setting is the removal of race specific Gods, but I can learn to live with that.

Like I said before, my main exposure to D&D is through computer games so I'm just excited to see how they're going to incorporate all this into upcoming game releases.

DevoutlyApathetic

...because the core setting isn't going to be a complete world by any means? It's basically the default assumption that "standard" D&D things exists, like Mordenkaiden, the Rod of Seven Parts and such like. There is no overarching history and I doubt they'll publish novels about it.

FR and Ebberon aren't going anywhere though.

fadingathedges

The 4e default setting smells like "buy a real setting [but this will do]" tripe to me. I don't intend to use any of it.

OhtheVogonity

I haven't played D&D since shortly after the advent of 3e, but discovering this board and reading deeply about 4e... well, it might just reel me back in with it's dread tentacles.

Difficulty being finding a group to play with again. That's the worst, having to deal with schmucks until you find people you can at least stand socially, if not enjoy gaming with.

Horseshoe

Most of them are called "your friends".

OhtheVogonity

Well, I don't have any friends who are already into it. But I suppose it's not a huge jump to get them from video games to pen and paper. And I already have them hooked on Settlers of Catan, so dice and gaming at a table aren't unheard of.

I think I'm going to hold my breath until the launch and pick up an intro adventure with pregen characters and see if it comes off well.

Puscifer

DevoutlyApathetic wrote: »

...because the core setting isn't going to be a complete world by any means? It's basically the default assumption that "standard" D&D things exists, like Mordenkaiden, the Rod of Seven Parts and such like. There is no overarching history and I doubt they'll publish novels about it.

FR and Ebberon aren't going anywhere though.

When I talk about the setting, I'm referring to FR. My bad. I'll specify what I'm referring to next time.

VoraciousAardvark

Puscifer wrote: »

DevoutlyApathetic wrote: »

...because the core setting isn't going to be a complete world by any means? It's basically the default assumption that "standard" D&D things exists, like Mordenkaiden, the Rod of Seven Parts and such like. There is no overarching history and I doubt they'll publish novels about it.

FR and Ebberon aren't going anywhere though.

When I talk about the setting, I'm referring to FR. My bad. I'll specify what I'm referring to next time.

I think part of the issue is that aside from story and religious elements that are changing, the root of the problem is that most people I talk to are of the opinion that FR = Bad. It's always been my favorite setting, very fleshed out and lush, with plenty of backstory, so I could never understand the complaints.

Goumindong

You cant be a hero because they already exist.

You dont need the goonies to save the world when the President can get on the phone and Dial Delta Force.

As such, you end up being relegated to doing stuff that isnt really "epic"

edit: For instance in Eberron, which is a setting i love. You are the heroes. There are only a handful of characters over level 5 and only a smattering more that have PC classes.

This means that when something happens in the world. You are the ones who have to go fix it. There is no Deux Ex Machina, and there is no wondering why some Deus Ex Machina doesnt come along and save you. It makes it easier to understand why you get recruited to do any number of things. Because even at level 1, people like you are rare.

Vathris

Do you guys mind if I try a striker?

BTW I can see the point about potentially not being a hero. With that said, WOTC has handled SW:SE is such a way that you feel like a major hero. If WOTC uses a similar formula (They said SW:SE was like a forerunner), they really may make a powerhouse edition.

INeedNoSalt

Goumindong wrote: »

You cant be a hero because they already exist.

You dont need the goonies to save the world when the President can get on the phone and Dial Delta Force.

As such, you end up being relegated to doing stuff that isnt really "epic"

But the Goonies are badass.

FR is to me like playing a Paladin in WoW. Whoo, I'm cool, too bad I'll never be as cool as Lothar!

Horseshoe

OhtheVogonity wrote: »

Well, I don't have any friends who are already into it. But I suppose it's not a huge jump to get them from video games to pen and paper. And I already have them hooked on Settlers of Catan, so dice and gaming at a table aren't unheard of.

Exactly.

These people are your gaming group. They just don't know it yet.

And until 4th edition comes out, you will wring your gloved hands while chuckling ominiously.

Knowingly.

Vathris

Horseshoe wrote: »

OhtheVogonity wrote: »

Well, I don't have any friends who are already into it. But I suppose it's not a huge jump to get them from video games to pen and paper. And I already have them hooked on Settlers of Catan, so dice and gaming at a table aren't unheard of.

Exactly.

These people are your gaming group. They just don't know it yet.

And until 4th edition comes out, you will wring your gloved hands while chuckling ominiously.

Knowingly.

I wish man, all of my buds lay out 4-6 hours at a time in wow but think it is too geekish to P&P. Any tips for converting them?