No I agree that by not playing it you aren't experiencing it 100%. But if you're fighting the controls the entire time then Let's Plays are great if you still want to experience the story.
The controls never bothered me, I always found them fairly...deliberate? They reminded me of Prince of Persia, the original. You always had to hit run up to start the jump animation WAY before the ledge. It wasn't so much responsive, it was more an emulation of what was going on, if you're going to jump, you have to prepare. I found the Team ICO games very similar, and it's something I like.
I don't have a horse in this race since I don't own any consoles and never plan on buying another one, but I figure if they couldn't figure out their earlier games controlled like shit and learn from that and improve on their next game eleven years later (5 if you count the remake), I don't know that I'd want to bother with their newest game.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
I don't have a horse in this race since I don't own any consoles and never plan on buying another one, but I figure if they couldn't figure out their earlier games controlled like shit and learn from that and improve on their next game eleven years later (5 if you count the remake), I don't know that I'd want to bother with their newest game.
As you'll notice by the conversations here those controls were part of the charm for many.
If that's who they are making the game for why would they change it?
I don't have a horse in this race since I don't own any consoles and never plan on buying another one, but I figure if they couldn't figure out their earlier games controlled like shit and learn from that and improve on their next game eleven years later (5 if you count the remake), I don't know that I'd want to bother with their newest game.
As you'll notice by the conversations here those controls were part of the charm for many.
If that's who they are making the game for why would they change it?
That's a bullshit reason to keep shitty controls. I used to be a fan of their games. 11 years ago. Now, in 2016, those controls are no longer okay, and I'll just skip this game.
I'm not a fan of controls being bad because 'that's the genre' or 'that's what this developer does'. You're not 'okay' with the controls, you can just overlook them because you like the rest of the game enough.
This happened with The Last of Us as well. The controls sucked 'because it was a survival horror game'. No, the controls sucked because Naughty Dog decided to make the controls suck, and people's mileage varies on that game because of that.
I don't recall TLoU's controls sucking? What was wrong with them?
Also, what's so bad about The Last Guardian's controls? I'm trying not to spoil too much on the game before I can play it, so I haven't been looking at too many videos? I keep seeing "the controls are shit", but nothing about why they're shit.
Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
I don't have a horse in this race since I don't own any consoles and never plan on buying another one, but I figure if they couldn't figure out their earlier games controlled like shit and learn from that and improve on their next game eleven years later (5 if you count the remake), I don't know that I'd want to bother with their newest game.
As you'll notice by the conversations here those controls were part of the charm for many.
If that's who they are making the game for why would they change it?
That's a bullshit reason to keep shitty controls. I used to be a fan of their games. 11 years ago. Now, in 2016, those controls are no longer okay, and I'll just skip this game.
Making a game for a specific audience is bullshit?
There's a difference between "controls people dislike" and "bad controls". SotC belonged to the first. There was nothing technically wrong with the controls. It wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but... see the infamous Eurogamer article on AvP for how much that's worth. A lot of people will call controls bad just because they are unfamiliar and different from the "norm". But that's different from being technically bad, which is when controls actively undermine their own intended gameplay. I don't think SotC ever did that.
This game, however, just straight up seems to have a number of bad control issues, based on the "repeatedly doing the same exact thing a dozen times until it magically works" and "activities that require incredible precision despite communicating the obvious" and "a camera that is often obfuscated and frustrating to deal with"
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
There's a difference between "controls people dislike" and "bad controls". SotC belonged to the first. There was nothing technically wrong with the controls. It wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but... see the infamous Eurogamer article on AvP for how much that's worth. A lot of people will call controls bad just because they are unfamiliar and different from the "norm". But that's different from being technically bad, which is when controls actively undermine their own intended gameplay. I don't think SotC ever did that.
This game, however, just straight up seems to have a number of bad control issues, based on the "repeatedly doing the same exact thing a dozen times until it magically works" and "activities that require incredible precision despite communicating the obvious" and "a camera that is often obfuscated and frustrating to deal with"
I definitely agree with this! I haven't gotten to play this one yet. So note that I'm talking about these games as a whole and addressing the "why would they not 'fix' 'shitty' controls" comments.
Maybe they fucked something up this time! Don't know myself yet just know that these were issues that came up with the past games.
I watched Jim Sterling's video on the game. It doesn't seem like the controls themselves are "shit", but the way the world interprets your actions, if that makes sense. There's scenes of him calling for the dog and nothing happens. Scenes of him pointing that light thing and it taking a good while before the dog does the lightning move. Quite a few instances of him throwing a barrel and the dog does nothing, or it does the animation to eat it, but physics makes the barrel bounce away. These issues may be "charming" at first, but after 5 or so hours of them, they'd probably start pissing me right the fuck off and make me scream "just do the fucking thing already!".
The way it's looking and shaping up, I very much want to play this game, and I'm willing to put up with the serious quirks. But not for full price. It can wait for a serious discount.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Yeah, I can handle with all the quirks that carried over from ICO/SotC.
And yeah, in theory Trico acting like a real animal sounds neat, but I also don't have 10 to 30 minutes to waste on puzzles that I figured out already and just waiting for the game to decide we can move on.
I've been playing this all day and I highly recommend it. Even if it's on sale some day. There are some moments you'll definitely won't want to miss. The controls aren't the best but they're not game breaking. I got used to them quickly.
The thing I love about these ico games is their realistic minimalism, if you can call it that. When so many other games nowadays are just overproduced numbers games, these are a breath of fresh air.
I am wondering if they intentionally made the animal disobey or not. I assume there is some A.I. going on. I do wonder if you are mean to the animal if it will attack you or not.
I am wondering if they intentionally made the animal disobey or not. I assume there is some A.I. going on. I do wonder if you are mean to the animal if it will attack you or not.
If we're talking about a game where you're training animals, I'd want the AI to be realistic. If we're talking about a game where the animal's reaction decided if I live or die? I want the AI to be responsive, fuck realism.
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
Ya know, usually I'd be peeved that UPS didn't deliver my copy of birddog and boy adventures on release day. But between me having FFXV, and new Hearthstone Expansion, and the game being delayed 50 times before... I think I could wait another day. Yeah. Tonight will be fine without it...
...fucking seriously though UPS? Where's my copy of birddog and boy adventures?
Yea. The controls and camera are hot garbage. Sorry anyone saying "well that's part of the charm of Ico and SotC" - fuck that noise. I don't mind Trico being temperamental (it adds to the idea of you developing trust and a bond); I do mind Trico being temperamental AND the control scheme screwing me over. This kid not stepping off a tiny ledge (that he can step up to) and forcing me to time a ridiculous jump to drop down a platform is fucking bullshit. The climbing controls/camera are just as terrible as they were in SotC and you really have to sit back and wonder "Where the hell did the development on this go. . ." Obviously a MASSIVE amount of time was spent on just making sure The Kid and Trico interact properly (and it shows because they do), but fuck me spend like a month or get in someone who knows controls because these are just bad.
Everything else is incredible: the set pieces, the puzzling, Trico's modeling/animation. . .but this is definitely an instance where I would knock some massive points off a game because of the user interaction/experience.
"Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
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firewaterwordSatchitanandaPais Vasco to San FranciscoRegistered Userregular
edited December 2016
Watching the giant bomb quicklook right now - can you really not turn those button prompts in the upper right off? I think I saw that in the gamespot review, but I was assuming they meant something way less visually invasive.
I just played Ico and SotC not too long ago, and let me tell you--these controls are way, way WAY worse. Like, "worst in the whole f'ing medium" worse.
The game has more soul than anything I've played since, well, SotC, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to power through this or not. I'm glad I bought it physical so returning it is on the table.
Edit: An hour of miserable stumbling later, and I just sent for the return shipping label and will watch it on Youtube to save my blood pressure. What a huge letdown, Ico and SotC are two of the all time greats.
Man, I'm puzzled... I love the SotC controls to bits, I was oblivious to the fact that people exist who can't handle them. The world is a curious place I guess.
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Man, I'm puzzled... I love the SotC controls to bits, I was oblivious to the fact that people exist who can't handle them. The world is a curious place I guess.
SotC just asked you to move forward in wide open spaces and jump on big monsters, with the exception of that cliff on the way to the first one. Which was the low point of that game, arguably. Last Guardian asks you to do real platforming on a regular basis with floaty, unresponsive controls and a frame rate that dips into the single digits as you try to swing the camera around. There's a big, BIG difference.
Darlan on
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited December 2016
So admittedly I've only watched the game, not played it, but the framerate issue seems confusing to me because the game isn't that good looking? The visuals are pretty dated, you'd think it wouldn't take all of the PS4's beef to render 60 fps.
I dunno. I really want to know what development for this game was like. It does not seem to have been a pleasant work environment.
So admittedly I've only watched the game, not played it, but the framerate issue seems confusing to me because the game isn't that good looking? The visuals are pretty dated, you'd think it wouldn't take all of the PS4's beef to render 60 fps.
I dunno. I really want to know what development for this game was like. It does not seem to have been a pleasant work environment.
I finished the game today and IMO the visuals are fantastic and I only have a 720p TV. The last few areas are really impressive.
Man, I'm puzzled... I love the SotC controls to bits, I was oblivious to the fact that people exist who can't handle them. The world is a curious place I guess.
SotC just asked you to move forward in wide open spaces and jump on big monsters, with the exception of that cliff on the way to the first one. Which was the low point of that game, arguably. Last Guardian asks you to do real platforming on a regular basis with floaty, unresponsive controls and a frame rate that dips into the single digits as you try to swing the camera around. There's a big, BIG difference.
Playing through this a few weeks ago, I stuffed up the jump to get to the 3rd colossus so many times. Swim to the ramp, jump, fall, swim back to the ramp.
So yeah, maybe the controls were not that great. Although other bits like the 8th? one I think, the lizard in the colosseum kinda thing? Never had any issues getting around there.
Switch Friend Code: SW-3944-9431-0318
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I wonder if the "smash the fuck out of the controller buttons for no apparent reason" death screen is a ploy to recoup development costs by way of replacement controller purchases. Gah, it's so obnoxious.
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Zilla36021st Century. |She/Her|Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered Userregular
edited December 2016
Just started TLG today and spent way longer on it than I meant to. How is it? I think I'm in love.
I could be looking at a tie between this and Playdead's 'Inside' for my GOTY, and it's a really close call.
Also FF15 and this in the same year? Both potential vapour-ware that turned out great in the end. Amazing. 8-)
Have you hugged your Trico enough today? Even if your answer is yes, you should probably go back and hug them some more, then fetch more barrels, barrel-bro. :bzz: The feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeels, they are building! :heartbeat:
I wonder if the "smash the fuck out of the controller buttons for no apparent reason" death screen is a ploy to recoup development costs by way of replacement controller purchases. Gah, it's so obnoxious.
You only really need to alternate the triggers, like popping soap bubbles. I actually like it since I think I have a (fairly odd) idea about what it's a metaphor for.
Would make for a cool-looking screensaver, actually.
Zilla36021st Century. |She/Her|Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered Userregular
It might just be my imagination, but I've had more luck with Trico listening to commands if you ride atop of their head.
It's probably context sensitive.
Who am I kidding... Bought the game.
(I want to say I wish I had more restraint, but when it comes to ICO/SotC...Nah.)
Pretty much agree with what ED! posted after 1½-2 hours in.
So admittedly I've only watched the game, not played it, but the framerate issue seems confusing to me because the game isn't that good looking? The visuals are pretty dated, you'd think it wouldn't take all of the PS4's beef to render 60 fps.
I dunno. I really want to know what development for this game was like. It does not seem to have been a pleasant work environment.
Based on what exactly? They've already made it clear that they pushed it to the PS4 because it wouldn't run on the PS3, not because it was in some sort of Duke Nukem Forever or even Final Fantasy XV situation. And Ueda left Japan Studio because Japan Studio was a mess (I think they said they had like 10 or 15 games in development at one time), so it was restructured and he wasn't happy with it. It sucks he left but it was for the best, Japan Studio are now structured more like Naughty Dog and Sony Santa Monica (albeit on a larger scale), which should allow them to produce more and better output than they did last gen.
And no, I don't think the visuals are dated at all. It's a beautiful game and Trico's AI and range of animations are insanely impressive. Oh and I'm playing it on a Pro, so no framerate issues at all for me.
I'm only a few hours into it (I ended up putting it off until I was done with FFXV) but everything I've played is so fucking good. The controls were definitely a little weird at first but like Ico and SotC, I got used to them in 5 minutes so *shrug*. To be honest, I had way more difficulty with FFXV's controls. At this rate, I can easily see TLG knocking Uncharted 4 and The Witness off my GOTY pedestal but we'll see. I'm loving it so far.
I played ICO and Shadow and LOVED both of them. The controls were finicky, but I never was too frustrated by them.
Last Guardian's controls and camera are sooooooo much worse. It blows my mind how much time they spent on this game and how bad the controls and cameras are. The outside environments are great looking and pretty, but I'm a couple hours in and those seem to be in the minority. You generally spend a lot of time inside temples, where it's dark and the camera wigs out every few minutes. I'm not having a lot of fun during those times.
But then Trico reacts to something in an unexpected way, or you step outside and see its fur wave in the wind. Or you get him to do exactly what you want to and he leaps from crumbling moment to crumbling moment. That's when you're 'yeah, this game rocks'.
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I'm not as keen on the camera though!
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
I really don't want to buy a PS4 just for this game, but I really want to play this game.
As you'll notice by the conversations here those controls were part of the charm for many.
If that's who they are making the game for why would they change it?
That's a bullshit reason to keep shitty controls. I used to be a fan of their games. 11 years ago. Now, in 2016, those controls are no longer okay, and I'll just skip this game.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
This happened with The Last of Us as well. The controls sucked 'because it was a survival horror game'. No, the controls sucked because Naughty Dog decided to make the controls suck, and people's mileage varies on that game because of that.
Also, what's so bad about The Last Guardian's controls? I'm trying not to spoil too much on the game before I can play it, so I haven't been looking at too many videos? I keep seeing "the controls are shit", but nothing about why they're shit.
Making a game for a specific audience is bullshit?
That doesn't make a lot of sense.
This game, however, just straight up seems to have a number of bad control issues, based on the "repeatedly doing the same exact thing a dozen times until it magically works" and "activities that require incredible precision despite communicating the obvious" and "a camera that is often obfuscated and frustrating to deal with"
I definitely agree with this! I haven't gotten to play this one yet. So note that I'm talking about these games as a whole and addressing the "why would they not 'fix' 'shitty' controls" comments.
Maybe they fucked something up this time! Don't know myself yet just know that these were issues that came up with the past games.
The way it's looking and shaping up, I very much want to play this game, and I'm willing to put up with the serious quirks. But not for full price. It can wait for a serious discount.
And yeah, in theory Trico acting like a real animal sounds neat, but I also don't have 10 to 30 minutes to waste on puzzles that I figured out already and just waiting for the game to decide we can move on.
The thing I love about these ico games is their realistic minimalism, if you can call it that. When so many other games nowadays are just overproduced numbers games, these are a breath of fresh air.
If we're talking about a game where you're training animals, I'd want the AI to be realistic. If we're talking about a game where the animal's reaction decided if I live or die? I want the AI to be responsive, fuck realism.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
Everything else is incredible: the set pieces, the puzzling, Trico's modeling/animation. . .but this is definitely an instance where I would knock some massive points off a game because of the user interaction/experience.
*oh wow some chunky framerates too.
The game has more soul than anything I've played since, well, SotC, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to power through this or not. I'm glad I bought it physical so returning it is on the table.
Edit: An hour of miserable stumbling later, and I just sent for the return shipping label and will watch it on Youtube to save my blood pressure. What a huge letdown, Ico and SotC are two of the all time greats.
I think I'll eat and then jump into it.
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I dunno. I really want to know what development for this game was like. It does not seem to have been a pleasant work environment.
I finished the game today and IMO the visuals are fantastic and I only have a 720p TV. The last few areas are really impressive.
Playing through this a few weeks ago, I stuffed up the jump to get to the 3rd colossus so many times. Swim to the ramp, jump, fall, swim back to the ramp.
So yeah, maybe the controls were not that great. Although other bits like the 8th? one I think, the lizard in the colosseum kinda thing? Never had any issues getting around there.
PSN / Xbox / NNID: Fodder185
I could be looking at a tie between this and Playdead's 'Inside' for my GOTY, and it's a really close call.
Also FF15 and this in the same year? Both potential vapour-ware that turned out great in the end. Amazing. 8-)
Have you hugged your Trico enough today? Even if your answer is yes, you should probably go back and hug them some more, then fetch more barrels, barrel-bro. :bzz:
The feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeels, they are building! :heartbeat:
Would make for a cool-looking screensaver, actually.
It's probably context sensitive.
Oh god.
(I want to say I wish I had more restraint, but when it comes to ICO/SotC...Nah.)
Pretty much agree with what ED! posted after 1½-2 hours in.
Based on what exactly? They've already made it clear that they pushed it to the PS4 because it wouldn't run on the PS3, not because it was in some sort of Duke Nukem Forever or even Final Fantasy XV situation. And Ueda left Japan Studio because Japan Studio was a mess (I think they said they had like 10 or 15 games in development at one time), so it was restructured and he wasn't happy with it. It sucks he left but it was for the best, Japan Studio are now structured more like Naughty Dog and Sony Santa Monica (albeit on a larger scale), which should allow them to produce more and better output than they did last gen.
And no, I don't think the visuals are dated at all. It's a beautiful game and Trico's AI and range of animations are insanely impressive. Oh and I'm playing it on a Pro, so no framerate issues at all for me.
I'm only a few hours into it (I ended up putting it off until I was done with FFXV) but everything I've played is so fucking good. The controls were definitely a little weird at first but like Ico and SotC, I got used to them in 5 minutes so *shrug*. To be honest, I had way more difficulty with FFXV's controls. At this rate, I can easily see TLG knocking Uncharted 4 and The Witness off my GOTY pedestal but we'll see. I'm loving it so far.
Last Guardian's controls and camera are sooooooo much worse. It blows my mind how much time they spent on this game and how bad the controls and cameras are. The outside environments are great looking and pretty, but I'm a couple hours in and those seem to be in the minority. You generally spend a lot of time inside temples, where it's dark and the camera wigs out every few minutes. I'm not having a lot of fun during those times.
But then Trico reacts to something in an unexpected way, or you step outside and see its fur wave in the wind. Or you get him to do exactly what you want to and he leaps from crumbling moment to crumbling moment. That's when you're 'yeah, this game rocks'.