Am I the only one who'd really like to see maps of the castles (not game maps; actual floorplans) for both ICO and Last Guardian? One of my favorite things about ICO was the way that all of the areas fit together -- you'd go through a courtyard into a tower, climb up the tower, and go over a bridge that spanned the courtyard, for a very, very simple example. I think LG did something similar, but it was a bit harder to tell because the environments were so sprawling and because there were multiple structures you kept moving between.
(I assume SotC is also similar, but I admit I haven't ever gotten past the first Colossus.)
Am I the only one who'd really like to see maps of the castles (not game maps; actual floorplans) for both ICO and Last Guardian? One of my favorite things about ICO was the way that all of the areas fit together -- you'd go through a courtyard into a tower, climb up the tower, and go over a bridge that spanned the courtyard, for a very, very simple example. I think LG did something similar, but it was a bit harder to tell because the environments were so sprawling and because there were multiple structures you kept moving between.
(I assume SotC is also similar, but I admit I haven't ever gotten past the first Colossus.)
I was surprised at how much recognition I had of the valley by the time I got to the top of it. You start out down there and it seems so daunting - the towers and structures in the distance almost seem like just backdrops, the cool vistas from most games that you never actually set foot on.
But then you go through it all, come at it multiple times from different angles sometimes, and at the end I could look down and go "oh, that's the part where this or that scene happened!"
I finished the game, and I'm very, very conflicted over it
It had moments which were completely breathtaking and beautiful. The setting itself was haunting and gorgeously rendered, and the way Trico moved was impressive. The feeling of sheer weight and heft they managed to give him was great.
The technical problems kept yanking me back out of the experience, though. I don't think I've ever hated the controls in a game as much as I hated The Last Guardian's controls. WAY too many actions are tied to the same button, and I never quite got the hang of how the camera interacted with the jumping controls. I lost count of the number of times I lined up a jump, only to have the boy instead jump straight toward the camera and into a bottomless chasm. The kid seemed to randomly stop running or get hung up on unseen geometry when running away from enemies, which led to situations where I'd get stuck in an endless button-mashing loop with the guards.
The frame rate in certain sections was awful, and unfortunately it seemed to happen in sections where there was a beautiful vista which would otherwise have been a sobering reminder of how isolated and hopeless the situation was. Instead I was wrestling with the chugging frame rate to figure where I was in relation to Trico, and trying to view where I was meant to go.
Trico himself was mostly okay as far as 'controlling' him was concerned, but the situations where something didn't trigger correctly were very frustrating. There were several times I was utterly stumped as to where to go, only to lead Trico back to the same spot I'd lead him 5 times before and have a faux cutscene trigger for no apparent reason. It didn't feel like an animal deciding what to do, it felt like a malfunctioning AI which didn't recognize the proper cutscene trigger.
As to the story, I mostly enjoyed it but felt a bit of the impact was lost due to a few too many sections where both the boy and Trico ended up grievously injured or narrowly escaped death. They both took kind of an insane amount of physical punishment over the course of the game. The kid in particular hit his head so many times I wasn't sure how he'd still be able to walk in a straight line, let alone cling to Trico and jump all over the place. Kind of lost a bit of the intended impact for me. That my just be me, though.
All in all, it felt like a game I would adore if the technical issues were ironed out. But as-is, they nearly ruined the game for me. Your mileage may vary, of course. I see that a lot of people in here were able to overlook those problems, which is great. It's clear a lot of love and work went into this game.
After ten years I finally got to play this today! Admittedly only the first ten minutes, but still, it feels a lot looks the game I wanted it to be. Can't wait to dig in to it further!
Honestly the only times I ever had any trouble at all with Trico following directions were times where it turned out I was directing him to the wrong things. He always seemed very inclined to do the correct things, often subtly nudging me towards solutions I had missed with his body language or vocal cues.
The kid definitely handles a bit wobbly, and the frame rate hits unfortunate snags, but yeah the overall experience just completely negated those things for me. I'm usually pretty sensitive to frame rate stuff and was a bit worried that it would hurt my enjoyment but luckily it didn't end up mattering to me here. I can see how that's one of those things that just either sticks in your craw or doesn't though.
For anyone with a Pro that wants a better frame rate, set your output resolution to 1080p. It either runs at 4k but the same (ish) frame rate as regular ps4, or at 1080p at an almost solid frame rate.
However you don't get a choice which option to use in hand, it's based upon the output settings of your PS4.
I was also just so completely enamored with everything about Trico. His movement, animation, facial expressions, everything just kind of kept me awe struck. I spent a large portion of the game holding down L1 to keep the camera locked on Trico just to watch him navigate a corridor.
Honestly the only times I ever had any trouble at all with Trico following directions were times where it turned out I was directing him to the wrong things. He always seemed very inclined to do the correct things, often subtly nudging me towards solutions I had missed with his body language or vocal cues.
Most of the time I was actually very impressed with how well I could direct Trico. I had some minor gripes about a few times where he'd complete a series of jumps, then turn right back around and return to the beginning for mysterious reasons. My real complaints involve story triggers:
One that sticks out to me in particular is toward the end, where you extend that bridge to connect the two towers. There's a gate at one end, and an open wall at the other. What's supposed to happen is you hop on Trico, and then (I honestly have no idea what the actual trigger is) a cutscene plays and he bounds off, taking flight toward the final tower where the endgame takes place.
I spent nearly half an hour trying to get something to happen, leading Trico back and forth across the bridge, re-climbing the two towers to see if I missed something, wandering back down the jump pathway with Trico and then back up to the bridge again. Finally I just hopelessly sat there on Trico for a few minutes without touching the controller and the cutscene triggered.
I had a few moments like that. It kind of soured the experience, especially leading up to the end game.
Honestly the only times I ever had any trouble at all with Trico following directions were times where it turned out I was directing him to the wrong things. He always seemed very inclined to do the correct things, often subtly nudging me towards solutions I had missed with his body language or vocal cues.
Most of the time I was actually very impressed with how well I could direct Trico. I had some minor gripes about a few times where he'd complete a series of jumps, then turn right back around and return to the beginning for mysterious reasons. My real complaints involve story triggers:
One that sticks out to me in particular is toward the end, where you extend that bridge to connect the two towers. There's a gate at one end, and an open wall at the other. What's supposed to happen is you hop on Trico, and then (I honestly have no idea what the actual trigger is) a cutscene plays and he bounds off, taking flight toward the final tower where the endgame takes place.
I spent nearly half an hour trying to get something to happen, leading Trico back and forth across the bridge, re-climbing the two towers to see if I missed something, wandering back down the jump pathway with Trico and then back up to the bridge again. Finally I just hopelessly sat there on Trico for a few minutes without touching the controller and the cutscene triggered.
I had a few moments like that. It kind of soured the experience, especially leading up to the end game.
Huh, that's weird, yeah that does sound frustrating and flow-disrupting. I can't remember if I had to issue a jump instruction there or if it just happened. That's too bad that things got finicky for you though, it was a great moment! I may have just gotten lucky in avoiding stuff like that that ever happening.
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Zilla36021st Century. |She/Her|Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered Userregular
After ten years I finally got to play this today! Admittedly only the first ten minutes, but still, it feels a lot looks the game I wanted it to be. Can't wait to dig in to it further!
@Mr_Grinch Enjoy! I was hoping you'd get around to playing this.
Definitely my GOTY for 2016, and an absolute miracle that it exists (outside of Fumito's head) at all.
Gah. I'm really, really torn on whether to get this. I loved Ico and SotC and I'm craving something different from the AAA norm, but as I get older I've really lost patience with games that give you a clear indication of what you should do next.
Ah well, guess I'll wait for it to reach $20. (Which shouldn't be long, given how fast games drop in price nowadays....)
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Zilla36021st Century. |She/Her|Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered Userregular
edited January 2017
Get it! Trico is love, Trico is life! :heartbeat: :P
I'm well into my second play-through now, looking for some incredibly well-hidden barrels I missed etc. It's not surprising that so few people have the platinum trophy, you have to pull off some crazy moves to get at some of them. But I never feel like the game is getting in the way of my (sometimes unorthodox) experimentation, everything that looks climbable usually is. Sure, the camera does mess up, at times, but only because what's going in is either frantic or happening in a very tight space.
After ten years I finally got to play this today! Admittedly only the first ten minutes, but still, it feels a lot looks the game I wanted it to be. Can't wait to dig in to it further!
@Mr_Grinch Enjoy! I was hoping you'd get around to playing this.
Definitely my GOTY for 2016, and an absolute miracle that it exists (outside of Fumito's head) at all.
I'm loving it, but people are right, it controls like utter shit and the camera is awful. I'm enjoying it in-spite of the camera and controls, I feel I'm fighting them a lot of the time.
After ten years I finally got to play this today! Admittedly only the first ten minutes, but still, it feels a lot looks the game I wanted it to be. Can't wait to dig in to it further!
@Mr_Grinch Enjoy! I was hoping you'd get around to playing this.
Definitely my GOTY for 2016, and an absolute miracle that it exists (outside of Fumito's head) at all.
I'm loving it, but people are right, it controls like utter shit and the camera is awful. I'm enjoying it in-spite of the camera and controls, I feel I'm fighting them a lot of the time.
Utter shit seems like a huge overstatement. They're not great and could do with some improvements, like the auto-grip and the awkward climbing/jump direction, but otherwise they're fine for the relatively slow pace of the game. Much better than the faster paced Final Fantasy XV's controls.
So is team ICO dead after this? Will Ueda's universe continue on at his new dev studio?
Team Ico's been dead for years, probably since around 2011 or 2012 when they restructured Japan Studio because it was a mess. As for their future, Ueda's said that he wants to keep making games like The Last Guardian (not small indie/Kickstarter games), Shu sounds like he wants to continue working with him and those two go way back with each other (according to Ueda, his team used to be known internally as the "Yoshida Group"), so I'm guessing they'll continue to work together in the same way Jaffe has continued to work with Sony after he left.
After ten years I finally got to play this today! Admittedly only the first ten minutes, but still, it feels a lot looks the game I wanted it to be. Can't wait to dig in to it further!
@Mr_Grinch Enjoy! I was hoping you'd get around to playing this.
Definitely my GOTY for 2016, and an absolute miracle that it exists (outside of Fumito's head) at all.
I'm loving it, but people are right, it controls like utter shit and the camera is awful. I'm enjoying it in-spite of the camera and controls, I feel I'm fighting them a lot of the time.
Utter shit seems like a huge overstatement. They're not great and could do with some improvements, like the auto-grip and the awkward climbing/jump direction, but otherwise they're fine for the relatively slow pace of the game. Much better than the faster paced Final Fantasy XV's controls.
I think the "utter shit" came as at that point I was suffering massive frustration trying to jump off a moving chain.
They're serviceable, if annoying. Some of the design choices are much more... 'old school'? It really doesn't give you any help on where to go next or what to do, which I'm quite enjoying.
I've only played this for maybe an hour, but it was weird.
The controls feel kinda awkward, but I'm pretty sure they're meant to, like Agro not always listening to you in SotC. The kid's not that hot at this, I get it.
I had a weird experience when I got outside, though.
I got to the first area with lots of trees, and something - I can't tell if it's the camera, framerate or what - was making me feel queasy. This is the first time I've ever gotten motion sickness from a game, but I felt so weird I had to turn it off, and haven't gone back to it since.
My guess is that it was the low framerate, especially if you were playing on a PS4 and not a PS4Pro.
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Zilla36021st Century. |She/Her|Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered Userregular
I never really had a problem with the controls, as once you mentally map the face buttons to 'The Boy's wibbly limbs it becomes almost instinctive, and makes physical sense.
But I guess YMMV. I really liked it, but then I'm also one of those weirdos that likes the odd wibbly controls in 'Grow Home' and 'Grow Up' by Ubisoft. 8-)
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
The boys controls were never an issue for me.
I had 2 or 3 annoyances with Trico but overall went well and felt right.
I didn't mind the when Trico was a bit slow in responding and such because he felt like a creature.
Just the occasional point where it was very clearly a game issue that would pull me out of immersion.
One time I did yell at the screen when it triggered the wrong direction on a series of jumps that could not be stopped midway after an annoying time trying to trigger it in the first place.
Man this game...
You know, I feel Shadow of the Colossus left a profound influence on the industry and helped shape countless of games into what they became.
I never thought they would repeat that, but I think a few years from now Last Guardian will have left the exact same imprint.
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Castlevania is the first one I would have thought of as well, another one I can think of is Monster Hunter. A few years after SotC I noticed that a lot of game suddenly needed to include bossfights on giant climbable enemies, or on the backs of giant flying creatures. It's not something I can prove, it was just my perception at the time.
I think that Last Guardian is a game that will inspire a lot of game creatores as well, more so then actaul audiences, if you look at the sales numbers...
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Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
Castlevania: Lords of Shadow of the Colossus. Too bad they only had 3 instead of 16.
I enjoyed Trico, I was slightly disappointed that there weren't more overt links to the other two games, like how SotC had implied links with Ico, because I eat that shit up. But I also recognize that there don't really need to be. This is a world where magic and monsters exist, and they don't necessarily all come from the same source. Dormin, the Shadow Queen, the Master of the Valley, the artifacts and relics - there's probably crap like that all over the world.
Ico/SotC didn't have that much impact, as beloved as they are. There's been some superficial aspects copied, but the core of the experience is pretty unique. Journey/Abzu and Limbo/Inside are about all I can think of that get close.
Castlevania is the first one I would have thought of as well, another one I can think of is Monster Hunter. A few years after SotC I noticed that a lot of game suddenly needed to include bossfights on giant climbable enemies, or on the backs of giant flying creatures. It's not something I can prove, it was just my perception at the time.
I think that Last Guardian is a game that will inspire a lot of game creatores as well, more so then actaul audiences, if you look at the sales numbers...
It may not stand out as much as the giant enemies but SotC also influenced games like Assassin's Creed 2 and Red Dead Redemption simply through its horse controls. It's easy to forget that before SotC, videogame horses were basically just slow cars.
As for TLG, well there's already one clone coming out in a few months: Troll and I. It looks horrible.
It still impresses me how hugely influential ICO was though. The art style, storytelling, mechanics, level design and world design all in some way or another influenced a ton of different games, including major ones like MGS3 and Twilight Princess. And it's still influencing new games too.
Ico/SotC didn't have that much impact, as beloved as they are. There's been some superficial aspects copied, but the core of the experience is pretty unique. Journey/Abzu and Limbo/Inside are about all I can think of that get close.
No offence but this seems like a pretty superficial observation to me. Seems like you're getting hung up on the minimalism and fantastical settings and forgetting that ICO/SotC were far more than that. When Miyazaki says ICO was his biggest influence, I can see it in Demon's Souls. It may be in a completely different genre but the world building and storytelling share a lot of similarities.
I haven't played Demon's, but I can see it for Dark.
Telling stories about the world without hammering it into you with explicit "X happened because Y" is pretty vital to the feel of the games. Call it superficial, but understatement isn't something games do well that often, so for me that minimalism is pretty important.
You know, I feel Shadow of the Colossus left a profound influence on the industry and helped shape countless of games into what they became.
Well, I wish it were true, but I definitely don't see anything like a *profound* influence that helped shape *countless* games. Team ICO's games left an imprint, but it's a relatively minor one, sadly.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
You know, I feel Shadow of the Colossus left a profound influence on the industry and helped shape countless of games into what they became.
Well, I wish it were true, but I definitely don't see anything like a *profound* influence that helped shape *countless* games. Team ICO's games left an imprint, but it's a relatively minor one, sadly.
As I already pointed out, Ico has been hugely influential.
Anywho, Game Maker's Toolkit did a fantastic video on The Last Guardian's game design and storytelling:
You should probably get some glasses then. They have an extremely similar use of lighting, blur and a washed out colour palette. As someone who played MGS2 to death (like, I collected every dog tag in both the original MGS2 and Substance), going from the extremely clean MGS2 art style to the more stylised, washed out MGS3 was a bit jarring at first but I think it ended up working, it gave the environments far more atmosphere than the MGS3 demo that used the MGS2 engine.
I'm having a really hard time enjoying myself with The Last Guardian. Forget the floaty, smushy controls. Trico takes so long to figure out what I want him to do or what he even wants to do.
Each room has me entering, looking around, seeing what needs to happen, then pressing the "beckon" button (which apparently does nothing) until Trico either gets in a position that I need him to be so I can climb (which is somehow worse than SotC) or he figures out that he needs to jump somewhere.
It's just an unpleasant experience all around. I wasn't really expecting this. But I guess that solving puzzles with an uncooperative partner would be frustrating.
I'm having a really hard time enjoying myself with The Last Guardian. Forget the floaty, smushy controls. Trico takes so long to figure out what I want him to do or what he even wants to do.
Each room has me entering, looking around, seeing what needs to happen, then pressing the "beckon" button (which apparently does nothing) until Trico either gets in a position that I need him to be so I can climb (which is somehow worse than SotC) or he figures out that he needs to jump somewhere.
It's just an unpleasant experience all around. I wasn't really expecting this. But I guess that solving puzzles with an uncooperative partner would be frustrating.
That seals it for me then. I was waiting for Renzo's thoughts and, though it pains me, I will wait for this to drop in price. It hurts; I love SOTC and I'd like to support these type of games, but there just seems to be too much negative after too long of a wait.
Fwiw I'm enjoying it and haven't struggled to get Trico doing what I need him to. It's sometimes less than obvious what needs to be done which can lead to him seemingly not obeying (he's more likely to do something if it is right!) but in the main that hasn't been a frustration. It's just the controls I'm not keen on but I'm used to them now.
Then again I've been keeping this thread going for about 8 years now so I might not be the most objective...
Finished! And I didn't cry like a small child like I was assuming. Very close a few times though.
Its funny, I think most of us anticipating the story of this game came prepared for the characters to die. But apparently I wasn't prepared for -
suffering. Oh my only friend is getting mauled to death I better go figure out this puzzle, THAT DIDNT WORK OH BOY BETTER TRY THIS, DONT LOOK DONT LOOK.
For whatever reason this series has always stuck with me the longest after completing a game. I thought about SotC for months and Im doing the same here. Something about the architecture and blinding green grass in sunlight, I dunno.
Of course Trico is unparalleled as a videogame companion. I played most of the first half with my mouth agape at how he would act and react. There were times where I would scout ahead looking for a way to get him to the next area, look back and he was just standing behind me, wondering what I was doing.
I know some folks found him frustrating, but as a dog owner it just seemed par for the course... My dog will get the ball 90% of the time, and he'll bring it to me 10% of that time. I guess that's the origin of my patience.
Likewise, sometimes I walk my dog, and other times I let him lead and see where I end up or what he discovers. I found myself watching Trico for the same reasons and learned when he had a better lead than I did.
Was it ever frustrating? Yeah, at times. Im terrible at puzzles and sometimes I got stuck on the simplest parts. Like...
the first time you face the walking armor, and Trico is a cranky mess. I just kept trying to climb every wall and jumping off balconies when I just needed to pet the poor beast to calm him down.
Sometimes the answer is love, who knew?
There were some moments when I would be climbing a tower and try to coax him one way, only to have him start turning around and getting mixed up. I used the stomp command and he halted right where he was. Maybe that helps in other situations?
The camera wasn't too much of an issue for me. It has a funny way of resetting itself if it gets cramped in a corner, like a slow fade to black that can be disorienting however. I found the button prompts irritating though, and sometimes seemed to not even match the situation I was in.
The ending!
Along the way we learn of the regenerative powers of the Trico beasts, or at least the healing power of the blue-goo... So I guess its possible that Trico survived if he made it back to the valley and took a big goo bath? Thus healing the eyes that you see at the end?
Also how did the Master shield make its way to the village without being discovered for years?
The barrels!
Is this like a soylent green scenario, or is the goo made from butterflies? I just figured the butterflies were attracted to the stuff.
What Ive been wondering...
I get why Trico swallows the boy when overcome by the masters commands, but what causes him to puke him back up without being processed?
At any rate, will be playing through again for sure.
Oh, my one other, relatively minor complaint -- I was not onboard with the whole "button mash to start/restart the game" mechanic. Especially at first when you're sitting there just watching the weird symbols slowly fill the screen and you may not realize you're supposed to be doing something to make them go away before the game will actually begin.
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(I assume SotC is also similar, but I admit I haven't ever gotten past the first Colossus.)
I was surprised at how much recognition I had of the valley by the time I got to the top of it. You start out down there and it seems so daunting - the towers and structures in the distance almost seem like just backdrops, the cool vistas from most games that you never actually set foot on.
But then you go through it all, come at it multiple times from different angles sometimes, and at the end I could look down and go "oh, that's the part where this or that scene happened!"
The technical problems kept yanking me back out of the experience, though. I don't think I've ever hated the controls in a game as much as I hated The Last Guardian's controls. WAY too many actions are tied to the same button, and I never quite got the hang of how the camera interacted with the jumping controls. I lost count of the number of times I lined up a jump, only to have the boy instead jump straight toward the camera and into a bottomless chasm. The kid seemed to randomly stop running or get hung up on unseen geometry when running away from enemies, which led to situations where I'd get stuck in an endless button-mashing loop with the guards.
The frame rate in certain sections was awful, and unfortunately it seemed to happen in sections where there was a beautiful vista which would otherwise have been a sobering reminder of how isolated and hopeless the situation was. Instead I was wrestling with the chugging frame rate to figure where I was in relation to Trico, and trying to view where I was meant to go.
Trico himself was mostly okay as far as 'controlling' him was concerned, but the situations where something didn't trigger correctly were very frustrating. There were several times I was utterly stumped as to where to go, only to lead Trico back to the same spot I'd lead him 5 times before and have a faux cutscene trigger for no apparent reason. It didn't feel like an animal deciding what to do, it felt like a malfunctioning AI which didn't recognize the proper cutscene trigger.
As to the story, I mostly enjoyed it but felt a bit of the impact was lost due to a few too many sections where both the boy and Trico ended up grievously injured or narrowly escaped death. They both took kind of an insane amount of physical punishment over the course of the game. The kid in particular hit his head so many times I wasn't sure how he'd still be able to walk in a straight line, let alone cling to Trico and jump all over the place. Kind of lost a bit of the intended impact for me. That my just be me, though.
All in all, it felt like a game I would adore if the technical issues were ironed out. But as-is, they nearly ruined the game for me. Your mileage may vary, of course. I see that a lot of people in here were able to overlook those problems, which is great. It's clear a lot of love and work went into this game.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
The kid definitely handles a bit wobbly, and the frame rate hits unfortunate snags, but yeah the overall experience just completely negated those things for me. I'm usually pretty sensitive to frame rate stuff and was a bit worried that it would hurt my enjoyment but luckily it didn't end up mattering to me here. I can see how that's one of those things that just either sticks in your craw or doesn't though.
However you don't get a choice which option to use in hand, it's based upon the output settings of your PS4.
This may already have been said
Incidentally this game is gorgeous in 4k HDR.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
Most of the time I was actually very impressed with how well I could direct Trico. I had some minor gripes about a few times where he'd complete a series of jumps, then turn right back around and return to the beginning for mysterious reasons. My real complaints involve story triggers:
I spent nearly half an hour trying to get something to happen, leading Trico back and forth across the bridge, re-climbing the two towers to see if I missed something, wandering back down the jump pathway with Trico and then back up to the bridge again. Finally I just hopelessly sat there on Trico for a few minutes without touching the controller and the cutscene triggered.
I had a few moments like that. It kind of soured the experience, especially leading up to the end game.
Huh, that's weird, yeah that does sound frustrating and flow-disrupting. I can't remember if I had to issue a jump instruction there or if it just happened. That's too bad that things got finicky for you though, it was a great moment! I may have just gotten lucky in avoiding stuff like that that ever happening.
Definitely my GOTY for 2016, and an absolute miracle that it exists (outside of Fumito's head) at all.
Ah well, guess I'll wait for it to reach $20. (Which shouldn't be long, given how fast games drop in price nowadays....)
I'm well into my second play-through now, looking for some incredibly well-hidden barrels I missed etc. It's not surprising that so few people have the platinum trophy, you have to pull off some crazy moves to get at some of them. But I never feel like the game is getting in the way of my (sometimes unorthodox) experimentation, everything that looks climbable usually is. Sure, the camera does mess up, at times, but only because what's going in is either frantic or happening in a very tight space.
I'm loving it, but people are right, it controls like utter shit and the camera is awful. I'm enjoying it in-spite of the camera and controls, I feel I'm fighting them a lot of the time.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
Utter shit seems like a huge overstatement. They're not great and could do with some improvements, like the auto-grip and the awkward climbing/jump direction, but otherwise they're fine for the relatively slow pace of the game. Much better than the faster paced Final Fantasy XV's controls.
Team Ico's been dead for years, probably since around 2011 or 2012 when they restructured Japan Studio because it was a mess. As for their future, Ueda's said that he wants to keep making games like The Last Guardian (not small indie/Kickstarter games), Shu sounds like he wants to continue working with him and those two go way back with each other (according to Ueda, his team used to be known internally as the "Yoshida Group"), so I'm guessing they'll continue to work together in the same way Jaffe has continued to work with Sony after he left.
I think the "utter shit" came as at that point I was suffering massive frustration trying to jump off a moving chain.
They're serviceable, if annoying. Some of the design choices are much more... 'old school'? It really doesn't give you any help on where to go next or what to do, which I'm quite enjoying.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
The controls feel kinda awkward, but I'm pretty sure they're meant to, like Agro not always listening to you in SotC. The kid's not that hot at this, I get it.
I had a weird experience when I got outside, though.
I got to the first area with lots of trees, and something - I can't tell if it's the camera, framerate or what - was making me feel queasy. This is the first time I've ever gotten motion sickness from a game, but I felt so weird I had to turn it off, and haven't gone back to it since.
But I guess YMMV. I really liked it, but then I'm also one of those weirdos that likes the odd wibbly controls in 'Grow Home' and 'Grow Up' by Ubisoft. 8-)
I had 2 or 3 annoyances with Trico but overall went well and felt right.
I didn't mind the when Trico was a bit slow in responding and such because he felt like a creature.
Just the occasional point where it was very clearly a game issue that would pull me out of immersion.
One time I did yell at the screen when it triggered the wrong direction on a series of jumps that could not be stopped midway after an annoying time trying to trigger it in the first place.
Overall a good experience though.
You know, I feel Shadow of the Colossus left a profound influence on the industry and helped shape countless of games into what they became.
I never thought they would repeat that, but I think a few years from now Last Guardian will have left the exact same imprint.
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NNID: carmofin
3DS: 2852 6971 9745
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"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
The boss fights in Castlevania: Lords of Shadow
I think that Last Guardian is a game that will inspire a lot of game creatores as well, more so then actaul audiences, if you look at the sales numbers...
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NNID: carmofin
3DS: 2852 6971 9745
Throw me a PM if you add me
Castlevania: Lords of Shadow of the Colossus. Too bad they only had 3 instead of 16.
It may not stand out as much as the giant enemies but SotC also influenced games like Assassin's Creed 2 and Red Dead Redemption simply through its horse controls. It's easy to forget that before SotC, videogame horses were basically just slow cars.
As for TLG, well there's already one clone coming out in a few months: Troll and I. It looks horrible.
It still impresses me how hugely influential ICO was though. The art style, storytelling, mechanics, level design and world design all in some way or another influenced a ton of different games, including major ones like MGS3 and Twilight Princess. And it's still influencing new games too.
No offence but this seems like a pretty superficial observation to me. Seems like you're getting hung up on the minimalism and fantastical settings and forgetting that ICO/SotC were far more than that. When Miyazaki says ICO was his biggest influence, I can see it in Demon's Souls. It may be in a completely different genre but the world building and storytelling share a lot of similarities.
Telling stories about the world without hammering it into you with explicit "X happened because Y" is pretty vital to the feel of the games. Call it superficial, but understatement isn't something games do well that often, so for me that minimalism is pretty important.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
As I already pointed out, Ico has been hugely influential.
Anywho, Game Maker's Toolkit did a fantastic video on The Last Guardian's game design and storytelling:
Nice video, by the way, like all of Mark Brown's videos. He's always well worth watching. Definitely one of the Patreon pledges I've never regretted.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
MGS3's art style. It was a pretty obvious influence at the time because it was such a huge departure from MGS2.
Unless Ico has a monopoly on "it's sunny outside"
If you wanna blame the shitty Eva endgame section on Ico, that one makes a bit more sense
Each room has me entering, looking around, seeing what needs to happen, then pressing the "beckon" button (which apparently does nothing) until Trico either gets in a position that I need him to be so I can climb (which is somehow worse than SotC) or he figures out that he needs to jump somewhere.
It's just an unpleasant experience all around. I wasn't really expecting this. But I guess that solving puzzles with an uncooperative partner would be frustrating.
That seals it for me then. I was waiting for Renzo's thoughts and, though it pains me, I will wait for this to drop in price. It hurts; I love SOTC and I'd like to support these type of games, but there just seems to be too much negative after too long of a wait.
I will play it one day though...but not this day.
Then again I've been keeping this thread going for about 8 years now so I might not be the most objective...
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
Its funny, I think most of us anticipating the story of this game came prepared for the characters to die. But apparently I wasn't prepared for -
For whatever reason this series has always stuck with me the longest after completing a game. I thought about SotC for months and Im doing the same here. Something about the architecture and blinding green grass in sunlight, I dunno.
Of course Trico is unparalleled as a videogame companion. I played most of the first half with my mouth agape at how he would act and react. There were times where I would scout ahead looking for a way to get him to the next area, look back and he was just standing behind me, wondering what I was doing.
I know some folks found him frustrating, but as a dog owner it just seemed par for the course... My dog will get the ball 90% of the time, and he'll bring it to me 10% of that time. I guess that's the origin of my patience.
Likewise, sometimes I walk my dog, and other times I let him lead and see where I end up or what he discovers. I found myself watching Trico for the same reasons and learned when he had a better lead than I did.
Was it ever frustrating? Yeah, at times. Im terrible at puzzles and sometimes I got stuck on the simplest parts. Like...
There were some moments when I would be climbing a tower and try to coax him one way, only to have him start turning around and getting mixed up. I used the stomp command and he halted right where he was. Maybe that helps in other situations?
The camera wasn't too much of an issue for me. It has a funny way of resetting itself if it gets cramped in a corner, like a slow fade to black that can be disorienting however. I found the button prompts irritating though, and sometimes seemed to not even match the situation I was in.
The ending!
Also how did the Master shield make its way to the village without being discovered for years?
The barrels!
What Ive been wondering...
At any rate, will be playing through again for sure.