To write a more constructive response though, it's disingenuous to imply that private healthcare somehow improves the lot of those in the lower and middle classes. The most expensive medical procedures are also those that tend to strike infrequently and somewhat randomly (cancer etc.). Anyone who's not the rich is effectively never going to be able to afford these treatments without a significant drop in their standard of living and attendant flow on effects (schooling outcomes etc. are going to devastating for the family, and don't even get me started on mental healthcare).
It is in society's best interests to take these incidental costs and spread them amongst the populace, since we are then able to provide effective care to individuals without financially crippling them from something which is more or less outside their control.
Currently one the best ways to go from middle class to lower class in America is to have someone in your family require major surgery.
That's why people should have high-deductible insurance. That's the point of insurance - to protect people from unlikely disasters. It's not meant to be a prepaid plan.
Yeah because it's so awesome when I break my arm and can't fucking afford the costs because my deductible is sky high.
If you can't reasonably cover your deductible without forgoing stuff like rent, then maybe you should go with a lower deductible plan. What I meant is that "insurance" is supposed to be insurance against unlikely things that you wouldn't be able to cover the cost of if they happened, like cancer, or in your case, breaking your arm. It's not supposed to be something where you pay nothing for checkups. I wouldn't be able to survive without a car, but I don't expect to pay nothing at the garage when I go for tune-ups. I wouldn't be able to pay to repair it after a crash, but that's why I have car insurance.
Dude you don't understand. I can't afford health-care so Doctor's should be beholden to me to do whatever I tell them to. Health-care is my god given right and Doctor's are my slaves. Also, I want subsidized Vicodin; an unlimited supply. If I want to skateboard in a half-pipe without a helmet 5 times a week that's also my right and if I shatter my femur other people should cover the cost of that too. I want to smoke and drink alcohol also. When my liver goes bad and I get emphysema that should also be comped.
Basically I want everything for free. It's my "right" to have it. If you don't like that I'm gonna get the government to force you to fork over your money to pay for my rights. If you don't give it to them I'm gonna have you thrown in jail and if you resist they are going to shoot you.
See that's how "rights" work. I get what I want and I take it from you. You have the right to give it to me.
Oh, I understood your point. I was just pointing out that the highlighted section was the only thing in this thread you've gotten right.
Ah so you're a tyrant and a thief. Forcing people at the point of a gun to do your bidding. You're a street thug with an internet connection. I weep for our planet.
Oh, I understood your point. I was just pointing out that the highlighted section was the only thing in this thread you've gotten right.
Ah so you're a tyrant and a thief. Forcing people at the point of a gun to do your bidding. You're a street thug with an internet connection. I weep for our planet.
Ah so you're a tyrant and a thief. Forcing people at the point of a gun to do your bidding. You're a street thug with an internet connection. I weep for our planet.
Oh, please. Unless you're an outright anarchist (no taxes whatsoever, no government whatsoever), the difference between his point of view and yours is a matter of degree. You think defense, roads, police, and maybe a few other things are God-given rights and he tacks a few more on. Certainly no reason to call him a thief.
Ah so you're a tyrant and a thief. Forcing people at the point of a gun to do your bidding. You're a street thug with an internet connection. I weep for our planet.
Oh, please. Unless you're an outright anarchist (no taxes whatsoever, no government whatsoever), the difference between his point of view and yours is a matter of degree. You think defense, roads, police, and maybe a few other things are God-given rights and he tacks a few more on. Certainly no reason to call him a thief.
Well I don't think defense and roads are "rights" I just think they are constitutional (well defense anyway). Roads should be a state function, and most of them should have tolls.
But technically taking money from someone with force is stealing. Just saying.
Ah so you're a tyrant and a thief. Forcing people at the point of a gun to do your bidding. You're a street thug with an internet connection. I weep for our planet.
Oh, please. Unless you're an outright anarchist (no taxes whatsoever, no government whatsoever), the difference between his point of view and yours is a matter of degree. You think defense, roads, police, and maybe a few other things are God-given rights and he tacks a few more on. Certainly no reason to call him a thief.
Well I don't think defense and roads are "rights" I just think they are constitutional (well defense anyway). Roads should be a state function, and most of them should have tolls.
But technically taking money from someone with force is stealing. Just saying.
Universal healthcare isn't unconstitutional by any stretch of the imagination. Nor is taxation.
Here's a funny thing - see if you can find, in the US Constitution, a guarantee of your right to free markets. (Hint: it's not there)
Taking money from someone with force is not necessarily stealing. If I refuse to honor a contract and you or the police or courts force me to honor it, is that stealing on your part? If I steal something from you and you get the police or courts to get it back for you, did you just steal it back from me?
Taking money from someone with force is not necessarily stealing. If I refuse to honor a contract and you or the police or courts force me to honor it, is that stealing on your part? If I steal something from you and you get the police or courts to get it back for you, did you just steal it back from me?
Here's a funny thing - see if you can find, in the US Constitution, a guarantee of your right to free markets.
I thought there was something about liberty in there. Property? I'll have to look again.
When we're born we don't sign contracts to give the government our money when we work. It's implied somehow I guess.
And I'm aware this conversation is absurd from a practical standpoint but I find it an interesting philosophical discussion.
Taking money from someone with force is not necessarily stealing. If I refuse to honor a contract and you or the police or courts force me to honor it, is that stealing on your part? If I steal something from you and you get the police or courts to get it back for you, did you just steal it back from me?
Here's a funny thing - see if you can find, in the US Constitution, a guarantee of your right to free markets.
I thought there was something about liberty in there. Property? I'll have to look again.
Here, I'll help. The Fourteenth Amendment guarantees that no State may deprive you of, "life, liberty, or property without due process of law." That is to say, if they want to take your property, they have to follow the rules of eminent domain. However, they're free to regulate as much as they want. In fact, Congress is explicitly granted the power to regulate interstate commerce.
When we're born we don't sign contracts to give the government our money when we work. It's implied somehow I guess.
You could renounce your citizenship. That would allow you to avoid paying income taxes.
Citizenship forms, in essence, a contract between government and individual. The government promises certain things - defense, your "general Welfare", as the Constitution puts it, etc., and you promise certain things - that you'll do jury duty, pay your taxes, obey the law, and so on.
And I'm aware this conversation is absurd from a practical standpoint but I find it an interesting philosophical discussion.
Posts
It did. Dramatic to be sure but it's technically accurate. What I don't even get a chuckle?
Well ..... you got one thing right finally.
You should have yourself a cookie or something.
I was making a point. Apparently you missed it.
Edit: Condensing post for Elki.
Oh, I understood your point. I was just pointing out that the highlighted section was the only thing in this thread you've gotten right.
Ah so you're a tyrant and a thief. Forcing people at the point of a gun to do your bidding. You're a street thug with an internet connection. I weep for our planet.
...what?
Oh, please. Unless you're an outright anarchist (no taxes whatsoever, no government whatsoever), the difference between his point of view and yours is a matter of degree. You think defense, roads, police, and maybe a few other things are God-given rights and he tacks a few more on. Certainly no reason to call him a thief.
Well I don't think defense and roads are "rights" I just think they are constitutional (well defense anyway). Roads should be a state function, and most of them should have tolls.
But technically taking money from someone with force is stealing. Just saying.
Universal healthcare isn't unconstitutional by any stretch of the imagination. Nor is taxation.
Here's a funny thing - see if you can find, in the US Constitution, a guarantee of your right to free markets. (Hint: it's not there)
Taking money from someone with force is not necessarily stealing. If I refuse to honor a contract and you or the police or courts force me to honor it, is that stealing on your part? If I steal something from you and you get the police or courts to get it back for you, did you just steal it back from me?
I thought there was something about liberty in there. Property? I'll have to look again.
When we're born we don't sign contracts to give the government our money when we work. It's implied somehow I guess.
And I'm aware this conversation is absurd from a practical standpoint but I find it an interesting philosophical discussion.
Here, I'll help. The Fourteenth Amendment guarantees that no State may deprive you of, "life, liberty, or property without due process of law." That is to say, if they want to take your property, they have to follow the rules of eminent domain. However, they're free to regulate as much as they want. In fact, Congress is explicitly granted the power to regulate interstate commerce.
You could renounce your citizenship. That would allow you to avoid paying income taxes.
Citizenship forms, in essence, a contract between government and individual. The government promises certain things - defense, your "general Welfare", as the Constitution puts it, etc., and you promise certain things - that you'll do jury duty, pay your taxes, obey the law, and so on.
I agree.
We don't need two healthcare threads.