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Black focused schools - A huge step ahead.

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Posts

  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Thing about most black history education is, as Jeffe said, it regulates itself to a lesser role. It needs to be integrated into regular history.

  • AtomikaAtomika YOU ARE COMPLETELY DISREGARDING THE LABOR THEORY OF VALUE YOU ARE A BARNACLERegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    The fact that you can't see this differentiation suggests to me that you haven't really spent enough time familiarizing yourself with the problem, or even the status of Black people in America.

    You know the recent Denzel Washington movie, The Great Debaters? It's about Wiley College. I worked at their hospital for four years, in Marshall, Tx. The town's got about a 65% black population, almost all at or below the poverty line.

    Plus, my dad runs a government housing project in nearby Longview. I'd say his clientèle is somewhere between 99 and 100 percent black.

    I've got a little experience in the arena.
    Jinnigan wrote: »
    I have no idea on what the Afrocentric school will look like, but one easy way to apply the Pygmalion effect is that whereas teachers in majority white schools may be predisposed to expect their black students to be merely average, (and thus, according to the Pygmalion Theory, actually cause the black students to be average) this won't happen in a black-majority school.

    Sure, but how does that actually happen in a practical way that-
    a) doesn't ostracize black kids with the aforementioned affect of peer opinion, and
    b) doesn't leave out the other ethnicities that integrate into that school system?

    Wishing doesn't make it so. And too much positivity patronizes within short order.
    However, I can't say I blame these people for wanting to teach W.E.B. Dubois instead of Ethan Fucking Frome to impoverished black kids.

    I gotta nod in agreement with this one. But that starts early. Teenagers are too forgone with apathy and distraction by the time high school rolls around if they haven't been conditioned to become intellectual in prior levels of education. But DuBois is stuff young black kids need to hear. He and his contemporaries, at the time of extreme enforced illiteracy and anti-intellectualism, better articulated the black struggle and the foundations for restoration than (sadly) anyone since. I loved the way those writers turned their anger into plans of action instead of laments over victimization.

  • JinniganJinnigan Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Okay. So that's something to watch out for when designing the curriculum. However, I think the fact that these questions are even coming up is a marked improvement over a traditional, eurocentric school.

    Ultimately whether or not the school fails or flies depends entirely on how well-prepared they are to handle, well, everything we've been talking about.

    I also think you're underestimating teenagers, but I have no evidence of that. Teenagers who didn't used to care might begin to care given a curriculum more relevant to their everyday experience, and teachers who aren't predisposed to insist they're dumb or average.
    Rosenthal & Jacobson (1992) also mention briefly research that showed that 10 seconds of video without sound of a teacher allows students to predict the ratings they will get as a teacher. Similarly hearing the sound without vision AND without content (rhythm and tone of voice only) were enough too. This is powerful evidence that teachers differ in ways they cannot easily or normally control, but which are very quickly perceptible, and which at least in students' minds, determine their value as a teacher. Marsh's (1987) work shows that student ratings of teachers do relate to learning outcomes.

    I do think parents who send their kids to this school will be the parents who value education, so there's a good chance that their kids do too.

    whatifihadnofriendsshortenedsiggy2.jpg
  • AtomikaAtomika YOU ARE COMPLETELY DISREGARDING THE LABOR THEORY OF VALUE YOU ARE A BARNACLERegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Jinnigan wrote: »
    I do think parents who send their kids to this school will be the parents who value education, so there's a good chance that their kids do too.

    By that token, wouldn't the resulting assumed higher GPAs be worthless as a scientific example? The control is tainted.

    And again, by that token, those are the same kids that would likely do well in a typical school. Purely anecdotal, but I can't imagine that there are too many brainy intellectual blacks teens who are dropping out because they don't hear enough about Frederick Douglass.

  • MrMisterMrMister Valuing scholarship above all elseRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Statistically, the students with the highest percentages of success are typically Asian or Middle Eastern. I wouldn't say that they aren't facing any ethnocentric hurdles that everyone else is. They gotta learn about lily-white Jules Verne and Beowulf just like everyone else, and those types of things certainly aren't in their greater cultural repertoire. At least with black kids, it's not like they're getting a different set of oral tradition due to their parents being 1st or 2nd generation Americans. They're born native speakers, into a collective national culture, and go to school right alongside all the white, hispanic, asian, and middle eastern kids. Ethnocentric bias, while it certainly and inarguably exists, isn't an excuse for failure on behalf of only one specific student group.

    I just read a fairly long article about how the whole Asian 'model minority' thing was a huge myth. Granted, it was old, and doubtless the situation of Asian-Americans has improved since then, but the points it made were:

    1) Asian Americans appear to have disproportionately high income because they overwhelmingly live in the San Francisco Bay Area, New York, and Los Angeles. Once you adjust for location, they, much like other minorities, make less than whites.

    2) Asian American immigrants come in already equipped with a hugely disproportionate amount of PhDs, and this statistically skews their group income and life prospects upwards. If you focus on native-born Asian Americans, the statistics look much worse.

    3) Although Asian Americans' tend to pursue higher education, their education still doesn't go as far as whites', namely, even post-college they are much more likely to operate small businesses (laundromats, groceries), or do low-status technical work (office machine technician) than to receive higher-status careers (business management) that whites with comparable credentials will.

    So yeah, I don't know about this "if you worked hard like the Asians you'd do well" thing. Seems like a disingenuous view of Asian success was widely popularized as a way to tell other minorities to suck it, despite the realities of racism in both cases.

  • wawkinwawkin Registered User
    edited February 2008
    I loved the way those writers turned their anger into plans of action instead of laments over victimization.

    Exactly AR. This is the attitude people lack nowadays. How long can a person complain about the status quo, without inacting some type of change?

    Plus, all the lamenting over, perceived and actual, victimization creates 'a boy cried wolf' outside perspective. That's just one more obstacle for those few that do actively pursue change.

    Bottom line: first hand experience is the best way to garner information about the situation and deduce conclusions. Without that, it's all just speculation: intelligent deductions, but not neccesarily accurate.

    Talkin to the robbery expert.

    "This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
  • wawkinwawkin Registered User
    edited February 2008
    Jinnigan wrote: »
    I do think parents who send their kids to this school will be the parents who value education, so there's a good chance that their kids do too.

    By that token, wouldn't the resulting assumed higher GPAs be worthless as a scientific example? The control is tainted.

    And again, by that token, those are the same kids that would likely do well in a typical school. Purely anecdotal, but I can't imagine that there are too many brainy intellectual blacks teens who are dropping out because they don't hear enough about Frederick Douglass.

    My first post was on this very subject. Page 6 of this thread. That was my original point.

    Talkin to the robbery expert.

    "This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
  • AtomikaAtomika YOU ARE COMPLETELY DISREGARDING THE LABOR THEORY OF VALUE YOU ARE A BARNACLERegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    wawkin wrote: »
    Exactly AR. This is the attitude people lack nowadays. How long can a person complain about the status quo, without inacting some type of change?

    Plus, all the lamenting over, perceived and actual, victimization creates 'a boy cried wolf' outside perspective. That's just one more obstacle for those few that do actively pursue change.

    Bottom line: first hand experience is the best way to garner information about the situation and deduce conclusions. Without that, it's all just speculation: intelligent deductions, but not neccesarily accurate.

    I've long been a fan of DuBois and Langston Hughes and their contemporaries. Their writing solely concerns rights regarding the human condition and how to come about taking them back for themselves. It's inspirational, not self-pitying. It's calls to action, not requests for intervention. It's instruction, not destruction.

  • JinniganJinnigan Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Yes, it's unfortunate that Blacks today seem to have simply given up on the dreams of their grandparents.

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  • wawkinwawkin Registered User
    edited February 2008
    Jinnigan wrote: »
    Yes, it's unfortunate that Blacks today seem to have simply given up on the dreams of their grandparents.

    A bit ambiguous, but I understand what you're after.

    What we need is for 60 minutes to pull another pigmentation trick on the public.

    Talkin to the robbery expert.

    "This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
  • AtomikaAtomika YOU ARE COMPLETELY DISREGARDING THE LABOR THEORY OF VALUE YOU ARE A BARNACLERegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Jinnigan wrote: »
    Yes, it's unfortunate that Blacks today seem to have simply given up on the dreams of their grandparents.

    . . . and traded them in for more realistic dreams of being a drop out, going to jail, and/or dying in violent black-on-black crime?


    I'll take grannie's dreams, any day.

  • JinniganJinnigan Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I agree, it's most unfortunate that Blacks don't seem to have made any improvement to their situation ever since the Civil Rights. It's almost as if progress just.... stopped. I wonder why that could be?

    whatifihadnofriendsshortenedsiggy2.jpg
  • GafotoGafoto Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Jinnigan wrote: »
    I agree, it's most unfortunate that Blacks don't seem to have made any improvement to their situation ever since the Civil Rights. It's almost as if progress just.... stopped. I wonder why that could be?

    Whatever the answer is, it's white people. It's always whitey.

    sierracrest.jpg
  • wawkinwawkin Registered User
    edited February 2008
    Jinnigan wrote: »
    I agree, it's most unfortunate that Blacks don't seem to have made any improvement to their situation ever since the Civil Rights. It's almost as if progress just.... stopped. I wonder why that could be?

    Child Abuse Laws. They helped many families with abusive parents. Also stopped many a minority mother from physically putting the manners in their child.

    Talkin to the robbery expert.

    "This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
  • JinniganJinnigan Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    MrMister wrote: »
    I just read a fairly long article about how the whole Asian 'model minority' thing was a huge myth. Granted, it was old, and doubtless the situation of Asian-Americans has improved since then, but the points it made were:

    Do you happen to have a link to this?

    whatifihadnofriendsshortenedsiggy2.jpg
  • wawkinwawkin Registered User
    edited February 2008
    Jinnigan wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    I just read a fairly long article about how the whole Asian 'model minority' thing was a huge myth. Granted, it was old, and doubtless the situation of Asian-Americans has improved since then, but the points it made were:

    Do you happen to have a link to this?

    What he said.

    Talkin to the robbery expert.

    "This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
  • MrMisterMrMister Valuing scholarship above all elseRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    wawkin wrote: »
    Jinnigan wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    I just read a fairly long article about how the whole Asian 'model minority' thing was a huge myth. Granted, it was old, and doubtless the situation of Asian-Americans has improved since then, but the points it made were:

    Do you happen to have a link to this?

    What he said.

    It's "The Gap Between Striving and Achieving: The Case of Asian American Women" by Deborah Woo. I have the PDF, but I don't have the link, since I got it of a school site.

    Edit: It's from '89

  • GungHoGungHo Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Azio wrote: »
    I don't think the schools are the problem here. I think the people are the problem. I think a lot of black kids in racially integrated communities are being taught by their parents and role models to fear and exclude intellectuals and to associate intellectualism with white people. And God forbid you act like a white person, someone might forget what colour your skin is and actually give you a fair shake.
    I think the people take their fates into their own goddamn hands, because other people on both sides of the fence are obviously out to fuck it up for them.

    Half the aisle is actively trying to keep them down. The other half is actively trying to profit from them being kept down and using it as a false rallying cry.
    LRG wrote: »
    People are taught to think that blacks shouldn't be smart, that they should be in the lower class. Not associating intellectualism with blackness isn't something new at all, it's something that has been ingrained in are society since before any of us where here so it has had time to effect the way people think at large, I think.
    Honestly, is the "blackness" really the problem they're encountering? I mean, yes, I know it used to be (and still is in a lot of ways), but I've seen this in my own background where people in my "home culture" apparently emphasized ignorance while others seemed to not be interested in anything I knew because, with my background, there was no way I could possibly be intellectual, because I was a bumpkin from Southeast Texas.

    "Poor pride" and the foot in your face from The Man trying to keep you down isn't a uniquely black, brown, yellow, or white experience. It's a classist experience. Painting it as something else isn't helping the cause.

    "Adios, mofo" -- TX Gov Rick Perry (R)
  • MrMisterMrMister Valuing scholarship above all elseRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I think it's safe to say that class, race, gender, sexuality, and so on are all important.

  • wawkinwawkin Registered User
    edited February 2008
    http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=4404974&postcount=150

    No one has mentioned a possible reason to explain the situation that is not embbeded in hate at its roots.

    Talkin to the robbery expert.

    "This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    wawkin wrote: »
    http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=4404974&postcount=150

    No one has mentioned a possible reason to explain the situation that is not embbeded in hate at its roots.

    Um, poverty?

    We already covered that on like the first page. Poor people do shitty in school.

  • AtomikaAtomika YOU ARE COMPLETELY DISREGARDING THE LABOR THEORY OF VALUE YOU ARE A BARNACLERegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    wawkin wrote: »
    Child Abuse Laws. They helped many families with abusive parents. Also stopped many a minority mother from physically putting the manners in their child.

    From my experience, that hasn't been a problem at all. Sadly, where I work, most of the regular day-to-day verbal and physical abuse I see is done by black mothers. Mind you, completely anecdotal, but it's been the case no matter where I worked.

  • widowsonwidowson Registered User
    edited February 2008
    Tarranon wrote: »
    Malkor wrote: »
    Yeah, and how would they feel if some dude showed up and went. 'We need a white school for white kids?' They'd be livid! I mean, once they're out of school they're going to have to compete on a level playing field. This is kind of ridiculous.

    When white teens start having a 40% dropout rate, then you can bring it up. This thing came about because people saw there was a very real problem.

    I'll have to look into exactly what the school wants to do before making a judgment on whether it will help things.

    The reason black kids have a 40% dropout rate isn't because the schools arn't afrocentric enough; it's because most blacks live in areas where the schools suck.

    One of the reasons schools suck is because their focus has shifted from reading, writing, and arithmatic, to PC fluff and crap like this.

    You don't need to have school prayer, "heather has 2 mommies", the 10 commandmants or this self-segregation in schools, you need schools that focus on teaching kids to read, write, and do math.

    Thing is, the fluff is easier to teach and make you look oh so "progressive" and good, never mind that you're graduating kids that can't balance a checkbook....

    -I owe nothing to Women's Lib.

    Margaret Thatcher
  • vytroxvytrox Registered User
    edited February 2008
    The Star wrote:
    The Toronto District School Board says 40 per cent of Caribbean-born students drop out, and 32 per cent from east Africa.


    I think most of the replies have been coming from an American perspective. If I am reading this quote right, and most of these kids are first or second generation immigrants to Canada, then yes having special programs for them does make a lot of sense.

    Just as parents who never went to college have a hard time helping their kids get into colleges, parents from another country who have never been through the Canadian school system will probably have a hard time helping out their kids.

    I am not convinced that a seperate school is the best way, but I can definitely understand that as a group these children may have different educational needs.

    to wawkin: It does not always have to do with hate. Being part of a numerical minority in majority rules system often means you are simply ignored. This is more out of apathy than hatred. I am not saying that racism doesn't exist, just that even if all hatred was gone and we saw each other as brothers, minorities would still probably get fucked over.

  • JinniganJinnigan Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    So I hear there are already affinity schools in Toronto already, queer focused schools and Indigenous focused schools and transgender schools.

    Is this true?

    And if so, why is this school suddenly such a huge deal?

    stolen from a post regarding this subject from another forum:
    The terminology I generally use when talking about education is not "Eurocentric" but "steeped in the dominant discourse." Which is to say, the dominant (white, middle class) culture has a set of understandings and practices, and they are held up as "normal" and "ideal" in the dominant culture's institutions. Public schools are one such institution. So in order to succeed in a public-school math class, students have to fluently interpret and perform the dominant discourse. Otherwise, they will be confused, punished, etc.

    Real quick example, drawn from Bad Boys: Public Schools in the Making of Black Masculinity. Teachers often draw students aside to discuss behavioral issues, and the situation often escalates if one party perceives "disrespect" or "sass" from the other. Think about the student who talks out of turn during a lecture, and then, when the teacher talks to her about it in the hall, rolls her eyes. The teacher will probably punish the student more harshly now, or be more inclined to punish the student in the future. What Ferguson argues in Bad Boys is that a lot of these perceptions of disrespect/sass are really cross-discourse misunderstandings. For example, from my white perspective, if I am trying to discuss something serious with someone, and he won't make eye contact, I believe that he is not invested in the conversation. If a student doesn't look me in the eye when we are discussing discipline, I believe he is disrespecting my authority. However, according to Ferguson, it is quite common for black children not to look authority figures in the eye during such discussions, and it needn't point to disinterest or disrespect at all. If I escalate the situation based on incorrectly perceived disrespect/insubordination, then the student is being punished unfairly. Replicate this across thousands of dominant-discourse-fluent teachers and thousands of dominant-discourse-naive students, and you have a big problem of inequity. Even in a math class.

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  • AtomikaAtomika YOU ARE COMPLETELY DISREGARDING THE LABOR THEORY OF VALUE YOU ARE A BARNACLERegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Jinnigan wrote: »
    Replicate this across thousands of dominant-discourse-fluent teachers and thousands of dominant-discourse-naive students, and you have a big problem of inequity. Even in a math class.

    So . . . the reason so many black kids drop out is because . . . . they're too respectful to the teachers?

    Huh?

  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    So I hear there are already affinity schools in Toronto already, queer focused schools and Indigenous focused schools and transgender schools.
    I think that's because gay and transgendered students got tired of ignorant assholes kicking the shit out of them, and successfully lobbied the government to build special schools for them, so they can go to school without having to fear for their lives.

    Natives get special schools because they've been fucked over more times and ways than any other group in the entire history of this country.

  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Jinnigan wrote: »
    Replicate this across thousands of dominant-discourse-fluent teachers and thousands of dominant-discourse-naive students, and you have a big problem of inequity. Even in a math class.

    So . . . the reason so many black kids drop out is because . . . . they're too respectful to the teachers?

    Huh?

    No, the reason that the teachers think that black kids are disrespectful, is because culturally, white people will look one another in the eyes, even when having an argument or being disciplined. Meanwhile, it is entirely possible, that the black children feel respect is being show by not looking eye-to-eye at the person disciplining them, it is a sign of deferrance and submission.

    So the black child is trying to show deferrance and submission, the white authority figure is interpretting it as disrespect.

    This leads to harsher punishment by the authority figure because they are punishing the disrespect on top of the original transgression. Which leads to black children being punished more harshley for the same infractions (in their eyes, I doubt the authority figure actually tells them that the extra punishment is for not looking them in the eyes).

    If your being treated unfairly, then you are unlikely to continue to attend, which leads to dropout.

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  • muninnmuninn Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Jinnigan wrote: »
    Replicate this across thousands of dominant-discourse-fluent teachers and thousands of dominant-discourse-naive students, and you have a big problem of inequity. Even in a math class.

    So . . . the reason so many black kids drop out is because . . . . they're too respectful to the teachers?

    Huh?

    No, the reason that the teachers think that black kids are disrespectful, is because culturally, white people will look one another in the eyes, even when having an argument or being disciplined. Meanwhile, it is entirely possible, that the black children feel respect is being show by not looking eye-to-eye at the person disciplining them, it is a sign of deferrance and submission.

    So the black child is trying to show deferrance and submission, the white authority figure is interpretting it as disrespect.

    This leads to harsher punishment by the authority figure because they are punishing the disrespect on top of the original transgression. Which leads to black children being punished more harshley for the same infractions (in their eyes, I doubt the authority figure actually tells them that the extra punishment is for not looking them in the eyes).

    If your being treated unfairly, then you are unlikely to continue to attend, which leads to dropout.

    This is retarded. I come from a culture where looking someone in the eye is a sign of confrontation or disrespect (and is not afro or class - centric phenomenon), and when I was transplanted to US, this has never been an issue with my teachers. Yes, annecdotal evidence, but it is a really poor excuse/analogy, and treats teachers as if they are morons.

  • wawkinwawkin Registered User
    edited February 2008
    muninn wrote: »
    Jinnigan wrote: »
    Replicate this across thousands of dominant-discourse-fluent teachers and thousands of dominant-discourse-naive students, and you have a big problem of inequity. Even in a math class.

    So . . . the reason so many black kids drop out is because . . . . they're too respectful to the teachers?

    Huh?

    No, the reason that the teachers think that black kids are disrespectful, is because culturally, white people will look one another in the eyes, even when having an argument or being disciplined. Meanwhile, it is entirely possible, that the black children feel respect is being show by not looking eye-to-eye at the person disciplining them, it is a sign of deferrance and submission.

    So the black child is trying to show deferrance and submission, the white authority figure is interpretting it as disrespect.

    This leads to harsher punishment by the authority figure because they are punishing the disrespect on top of the original transgression. Which leads to black children being punished more harshley for the same infractions (in their eyes, I doubt the authority figure actually tells them that the extra punishment is for not looking them in the eyes).

    If your being treated unfairly, then you are unlikely to continue to attend, which leads to dropout.

    This is retarded. I come from a culture where looking someone in the eye is a sign of confrontation or disrespect (and is not afro or class - centric phenomenon), and when I was transplanted to US, this has never been an issue with my teachers. Yes, annecdotal evidence, but it is a really poor excuse/analogy, and treats teachers as if they are morons.

    Well...
    "If you can't do it, teach it."

    Don't get me wrong, I have mad respect for teachers, but frankly, anyone with a modecum of cogniscience should be able to take a book and regurgitate it to an audience. I would retract this statement for any teacher that teaches a subject that requires understanding rather than just rote memory. However, even these subjects, pre-collegiate level, are taught in via rote memory methods (which i think only hinders the students later on in their education).

    Talkin to the robbery expert.

    "This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
  • Satan.Satan. __BANNED USERS
    edited February 2008
    I do like paint chips, so that's the one I had to choose.

  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    It seems that the Premier has pretty much said, "Yeah, but I don't think so." and is unwilling to give extra monies for an Afrocentric school(s). That doesn't mean it's over, but they'll have to convince him or get the money from some other place. We'll see how it goes.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Page- wrote: »
    It seems that the Premier has pretty much said, "Yeah, but I don't think so." and is unwilling to give extra monies for an Afrocentric school(s).

    Yes, the system works.

  • wawkinwawkin Registered User
    edited February 2008
    shryke wrote: »
    Page- wrote: »
    It seems that the Premier has pretty much said, "Yeah, but I don't think so." and is unwilling to give extra monies for an Afrocentric school(s).

    Yes, the system works.

    That's funny on like, 6 different levels.

    Talkin to the robbery expert.

    "This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
  • JinniganJinnigan Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Oh boy, I'm glad I presented the eye gaze thing as the sole reason that black kids are dropping out, and not as an example of the ways in which our school standards are steeped in the culture and discourse of the dominant culture. Furthermore, I'm glad that none of you have made the incredibly unlikely and far-too-fantastic jump to the notion that this, combined with problems like the pygmalion effect, may be negatively affecting black students in a white-majority school system.

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  • AtomikaAtomika YOU ARE COMPLETELY DISREGARDING THE LABOR THEORY OF VALUE YOU ARE A BARNACLERegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Jinnigan wrote: »
    Oh boy, I'm glad I presented the eye gaze thing as the sole reason that black kids are dropping out, and not as an example of the ways in which our school standards are steeped in the culture and discourse of the dominant culture. Furthermore, I'm glad that none of you have made the incredibly unlikely and far-too-fantastic jump to the notion that this, combined with problems like the pygmalion effect, may be negatively affecting black students in a white-majority school system.

    I don't know what you're wanting. Arab, Indian, and many Hispanic cultures are much more militant in their beliefs regarding respect of elders, eye-contact, and so forth, yet all almost uniformly perform better in Western educational systems than Blacks. I don't know how you propose to "fix" the alleged Pygmalion effect, unless you start with the top, i.e., a system of black community leadership that concurrently seeks relaxed standards for minorities and wonders why their grades are so low.

    One man's rationalization is another's excuse.


    Although, on just a level of morbid curiosity, I'd love to see an actual experiment using regular black students in an all-black school taught by demanding all-black staff teaching an afro-centric curriculum. The results, positively or negatively, would essentially close the door on the argument.

    Personally, I feel popular culture has more to do with declining educational statistics in black kids than anything else. The overwhelming majority of Black people in the media are football players, basketball players, comedians, and hip-hop artists. None of which require more than the most skeletal of educational foundations. Where's the incentive? Honestly, I played college ball with guys that honest-to-god could not even read, yet were passed along in their "kinesiology" programs wherein all the classes were taught by athletics staff. And sadly, growing up in the South, most the black kids who did perform well in school went on to throw their lives away with careers in the seminary services.

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