A Jerb is a Jorb is a...wait you want me to do what?...

Thegreatcow

Ahoy there mates! First time poster long time lurker.


Essentially I find myself in a rather odd crossroads in my life.

Originally I had wanted to work in the video games industry just like every other doe-eyed 20 something fresh out of college. I did everything I could in college to make that happen. I took all the design and development courses that were just being offered and tried to land several internships (unsuccessfully) throughout my college career. I discovered that while I did not have much aptitude for coding, I worked great with people and project based environments. Unfortunately this does not translate well in the gaming industry for a wee lad fresh out of college.

Since I didn't really have a demo or any kind of digital portfolio I found myself with a whole bunch of applications and no replies. I basically got told more or less the same thing:

If I wanted more of a project/team coordinator position I either had to have prior industry experience or had to take a lower level position and hope to work my way up through there.

Luck of all luck happened to reply, holyshitit'sBlizzard!

Yeah I managed to land a job with Blizzard, I could not believe it, my luck was really turning around! Unfortunately in the span of just 1 year my joy turned to disgust as the only position I qualified for was a game master earning only 10 dollars an hour with little to no benefits and only "full time temp" status. I think also the 2pm to 1am shift also had something to do with it as I never had worked night shifts before. Also finding out your supervisor/trainer has been there for 5 years waiting to be promoted to the cinema department did not instill confidence in one's ability to climb within the company. Needless to say, I have less than charitable things to say about working for that place, but I guess I shouldn't divulge more since they seemed to threaten me with the whole wrath of god if I even breathed that I worked for them at all.

Since I had during these years prior to being hired by blizzard been working part time as a bank teller, I decided for the time being I should see if I could get promoted to something higher within the Bank. Lo and behold I managed to get back into the company and get a promotion on top of it!

Holy crap I thought to myself, this is awesome! I got promoted to a Personal Financial Rep which are the guys responsible for opening accounts and doing loans and whatnot. I managed to even get rehired at the same branch where I had been working at for 6 years. Plus I figured with my good people skills I shouldn't have a problem meeting sales quotas.....

Yeah so much for that I guess, I'm now in danger of being demoted back down to a senior teller as well as a hefty cut in my paycheck. My major issue is that trying to force people financial products they don't really want in this market is really not something that I'm good at. I love helping people, but I don't find selling to be my bag beyond what they really need. Every time I try to push a product on them that they didn't come in for I involuntarily feel like a sleazy used car salesman even though in some twisted corner of my head I need to do this and they'll appreciate it anyway...

Anyhow, a few days ago one of my customers out of the blue wants to recruit me for Jacobs Engineering some huge multinational engineering and development firm, apparently one of the accounts I opened for him he liked my work ethic so much that he wanted me to offer a job working for them. Totally bowled over my head, I rapidly cleaned up and fired off my resume to their recruiter and wait. I get a call a few days later stating that based on my resume, he said I would be good for a position in "Database management"

Hearing this I paused. I had worked with database networks before a few times in college but they were all cursory small classes that only dealt with really tiny databases and updating and modifying them through an Oracle database network. Since then I haven't really done anything with them in any way shape or form. To but it bluntly, I'm rusty as all hell.

This position would entail me trying to resolve issues that they've been having with their own proprietary billing software that they use to handle project invoicing; from what I'm hearing they're having a hell of a time getting their Oracle Database and their Billing software to talk to each other and they've been having other people work on it as an "extra task" on top of their normal work load which apparently has not been working out too well for them lately. So essentially I would be working on this job (no idea whether it's with a team or solo) and even though I explicitly voiced my concerns that I may not have enough experience for this job, they both seemed unconcerned about it.

This leads me to believe two things:

a) they're either so desperate for someone that they'll take anyone they can get.
b) they're willing to train me to understand the issues and have me work it out, just so long as they have a dedicated guy to do it and not have to do it themselves.


So that brings me (finally) to my question. The job certainly pays well enough (I'd start at 38$ an hour with full benefits) but my only concern really as someone like me who's definitely good with computers but hasn't touched anything database related in almost 4 years, should I really shot for this particular position or see if I can get ahold of some other position within the company? I'm more than eager to get out of banking but I don't want to end up in another job where I find myself totally bowled over by my work.

Sorry for the long winded rant, I'm sort of out of sorts after this weekend.

falsedef

If you don't take the job, someone less qualified probably will. Take the job, buy a book, and learn from your peers. I'm a doe-eyed grad though, so wait for Frylock to give you some awesome advice.

garroad_ran

In four years of studying music at college, the same lesson has been drilled into me by every one of my teachers:

Everything you learn here is a precursor to what you will need to know in the real world. You're going to have a certain basic skill set that will get you through most situations, but your most important skill will be the ability to assimilate new skills quickly and efficiently. If someone wants you to write for a string quartet, damnit, you hole yourself up in your basement and read every book ever written on string quartets, then you go and do it.

I don't see how this is any different! If it's a job you want, then read a book, take a course, do whatever you need to do to de-rust and perform it to the best of your abilities.

Xenocide Geek

so from your post i get the impression that you're pretty savvy with computers, and you have that "aptitude" that some of us have, especially when it comes to things that aren't on the "programming" side of computers

if that's your case, then i'd say go for it. you're gonna need to do what you said, grab a book, and learn, but that's basically the aptitude i was talkin' about - the ability to pick up a tech book, or at least dig through resources online and learn something computer related with relative ease.

that's literally how every cool computer person i've met has worked their jobs.

shutz

Even if you're not the kickass database programmer you think they think you are, you might end up positioning yourself as a good communicator, the kind of lubricant that keeps departments talking to each other, doing management and project coordination stuff.

Take the job, and see if you can fit in over there. If, after a while, you find that you're in way over your head, and there are no lateral moves for you, you can always quit. Clearly, you don't have much trouble finding work, so quitting shouldn't be too big a deal (people rarely last long in the same spot in "the industry" anyway.)

On the flipside, I can tell you a little more about the games industry, if you still harbor some hope of making it in there. Now that you've accumulated some interesting experience, your resume should look a lot more attractive. Don't aim for a programming or design job unless you have a strong portfolio. But you can aim for a QA position in a smaller studio. Ask around: some studios use QA as a stepping stone, a rite of passage into higher positions, while other studios (usually the bigger ones) keep QA separated from the rest of the company, and staff it with as many minimum-wage geeks they can find. You want the former, not the latter.

From that position, you can move into a Lead Tester position, and eventually even some management positions, which seem to be a good fit for you.

Lastly, if you really are a good "people person" who just happens to be tech savvy, maybe the good fit for you is actually Human Resources! You might even want to look into some night courses in HR, which could be enough to land you a good position in a tech company.

Thanatos

I think you'd be nuts to turn down an opportunity like that. It sounds like you have technical aptitude, some database experience, and you want to jump in, so do it.

Banking is a dead-end right now, you're young, you're fresh, you hate your current job, you're about to be demoted, and you have a stellar offer. Yeah, maybe you'll find you're in over your head, but that's a risk with any new job, and right now, from what you've said, it's most definitely a risk you can afford to take.

Erandus

You can always learn on the job. I work in IT, and I'm always happier working with people who have a good work ethic, and are very personable, and learn fast, over people who are crammed full of knowledge but are total douchebags. Anyone can be taught technical skills. It's hard to teach people to be a good co-worker.

If your personality got you hired, and you have any sort of foundation in the work and do reasonably well learning on the job, you'll be fine. Ask a lot of questions, take a lot of notes, and you'll pick things up quickly. I think you'd be foolish to turn that down.

Thegreatcow

My goodness thank you all for the replies folks. You all have touched upon pretty much all the feelings I had about this position....hookay...time to dig up materials on Oracle databases and portal technology. I guess Barnes and Noble would be a good start?

Karl

Thegreatcow wrote: »

b) they're willing to train me to understand the issues and have me work it out, just so long as they have a dedicated guy to do it and not have to do it themselves.

If they read your cv (and you didn't make anything up, which i'm assuming you didn't) then they're thinking you know enough and whatever gaps in you're knowledge they'll fill in. So yeah I think B is pretty likely. And a bit of reading up in your own time will of course help.

Lewisham

Thegreatcow wrote: »

This leads me to believe two things:

a) they're either so desperate for someone that they'll take anyone they can get.
b) they're willing to train me to understand the issues and have me work it out, just so long as they have a dedicated guy to do it and not have to do it themselves.

I'm more than eager to get out of banking but I don't want to end up in another job where I find myself totally bowled over by my work.

OK, so we've got three things in play here. I've worked at a database company on a billing system, so I have a fair idea what the deal is.

1. You want to get out of banking. How bad? Other people will know about banking more than me.
2. This company has a billing service that isn't working for them. Why not? Billing is really fucking important (I know that you know this, but I want to reiterate it).
3. You're saying you aren't that experienced. Did your resume lead them to believe otherwise? Whose head rolls if it goes wrong?

For me, this whole thing sounds off alarm bells. It does sound like they are grasping at straws, but it also sounds like they're not prepared to stump for a professional firm to fix this. Which they really should, because it's so important. You need to find out more about what is wrong with their current process. What does it do/doesn't do. Is it buggy? How are they managing now?

Let's say you go in there like a ray of light, shine joy into the darkest crevices of the database and bring love to them all. What happens then? Do you get laid off? Where's the growth potential?

I am always worried when companies don't take their IT seriously, even more so when it's billing. I'm not saying that this is bound to be something horrible, but from your post, there are too many unanswered questions to say that it's definitely A Good Idea.

Raiden333

Thegreatcow wrote: »

My goodness thank you all for the replies folks. You all have touched upon pretty much all the feelings I had about this position....hookay...time to dig up materials on Oracle databases and portal technology. I guess Barnes and Noble would be a good start?

Try the local library first.

Thegreatcow

Lewisham wrote: »

Thegreatcow wrote: »

This leads me to believe two things:

a) they're either so desperate for someone that they'll take anyone they can get.
b) they're willing to train me to understand the issues and have me work it out, just so long as they have a dedicated guy to do it and not have to do it themselves.

I'm more than eager to get out of banking but I don't want to end up in another job where I find myself totally bowled over by my work.

OK, so we've got three things in play here. I've worked at a database company on a billing system, so I have a fair idea what the deal is.

1. You want to get out of banking. How bad? Other people will know about banking more than me.
2. This company has a billing service that isn't working for them. Why not? Billing is really fucking important (I know that you know this, but I want to reiterate it).
3. You're saying you aren't that experienced. Did your resume lead them to believe otherwise? Whose head rolls if it goes wrong?

For me, this whole thing sounds off alarm bells. It does sound like they are grasping at straws, but it also sounds like they're not prepared to stump for a professional firm to fix this. Which they really should, because it's so important. You need to find out more about what is wrong with their current process. What does it do/doesn't do. Is it buggy? How are they managing now?

Let's say you go in there like a ray of light, shine joy into the darkest crevices of the database and bring love to them all. What happens then? Do you get laid off? Where's the growth potential?

I am always worried when companies don't take their IT seriously, even more so when it's billing. I'm not saying that this is bound to be something horrible, but from your post, there are too many unanswered questions to say that it's definitely A Good Idea.

Aye that's the crux of why I'm so hesitant, every time I've pressed them for information about what specifically I'd be doing they just re-iterate that they want someone in place to handle this issue with their two database servers, even after I told them that all of my experience with databases literally is about two classes in learning about SAP and designing Business Databases in my Junior Year through the business school. Even with this information, neither of them seemed to be plussed about it. I'm still awaiting for the sit-down interview as I breezed through a phone interview with them so I guess there's that. As for what I said, I definitely said in all truth: "Exceptional technical and computer skills with basic networking experience" I know it doesn't count for much nowadays, but I have built and serviced close to over 80 PCs over the last several years and did work for USC's ITP department for one year as a student tech but once again, as far as nitty gritty database work goes, it really only boils down to those three classes I took during college.

Lewisham

I'd say stay the course. You questions/grievances will only make you look more professional in a face-to-face. But don't take anything if they continue to whitewash you even if you're sat there at an interview, with presumably the people who would know the answers sitting at the other end of the office.

They might be whitewashing it because they don't know themselves, but yeah, keep your eyes open.

Shark_MegaByte

Or they might be whitewashing because they're hesitant to go into the gory details with someone who hasn't been hired. Hesitant for 'don't-burn-me-to-the-competition' reasons.

See if they will open up more if you tell them you'd like to SEE the problems before you make a decision, and you're willing to sign a nondisclosure agreement to protect them since you're not on board yet.

Feral

I agree with both of Lewisham's posts. I'm looking at this description of the problem:

This position would entail me trying to resolve issues that they've been having with their own proprietary billing software that they use to handle project invoicing; from what I'm hearing they're having a hell of a time getting their Oracle Database and their Billing software to talk to each other and they've been having other people work on it as an "extra task" on top of their normal work load which apparently has not been working out too well for them lately.

Which Oracle database? What does it do? Oracle is a platform, not an application. Simply saying that it's "Oracle" gives you a description of the technical skills necessary but not a description of the function or nature of the database itself. Maybe it's a low-priority database and that's why they're working on it a little at a time. Maybe they've got a team of people working on it and you'll be joining the team.

No company of that size is going to have one single person trying to interface a major database with a mission-critical financial system, let alone one single person without extensive experience with the technologies involved.

So my instinct? The actual job duties have not been accurately described to you yet. This is a perennial problem when hiring IT people - you try to describe the job duties to the HR hiring managers but ultimately you might as well be talking to a brick wall. They won't understand the problem space no matter what you say. So instead you give them a list of qualifications and hope they find somebody vaguely appropriate for the position.

So my advice is to continue to the actual face-to-face interview. Usually by the time you get to the final interview, at some point you will end up talking to somebody who is actually directly familiar with the systems or problems involved. Once you're speaking to an actual IT person who is actually working with the databases involved, try to get the job description and the problem space clarified. You might be pleasantly surprised, it might not be as daunting as you originally thought.

Thegreatcow

Feral wrote: »

I agree with both of Lewisham's posts. I'm looking at this description of the problem:

This position would entail me trying to resolve issues that they've been having with their own proprietary billing software that they use to handle project invoicing; from what I'm hearing they're having a hell of a time getting their Oracle Database and their Billing software to talk to each other and they've been having other people work on it as an "extra task" on top of their normal work load which apparently has not been working out too well for them lately.

Which Oracle database? What does it do? Oracle is a platform, not an application. Simply saying that it's "Oracle" gives you a description of the technical skills necessary but not a description of the function or nature of the database itself. Maybe it's a low-priority database and that's why they're working on it a little at a time. Maybe they've got a team of people working on it and you'll be joining the team.

No company of that size is going to have one single person trying to interface a major database with a mission-critical financial system, let alone one single person without extensive experience with the technologies involved.

So my instinct? The actual job duties have not been accurately described to you yet. This is a perennial problem when hiring IT people - you try to describe the job duties to the HR hiring managers but ultimately you might as well be talking to a brick wall. They won't understand the problem space no matter what you say. So instead you give them a list of qualifications and hope they find somebody vaguely appropriate for the position.

So my advice is to continue to the actual face-to-face interview. Usually by the time you get to the final interview, at some point you will end up talking to somebody who is actually directly familiar with the systems or problems involved. Once you're speaking to an actual IT person who is actually working with the databases involved, try to get the job description and the problem space clarified. You might be pleasantly surprised, it might not be as daunting as you originally thought.

Aye thankee very much for the advice, I'm currently playing phone tag with the lead recruiter at the moment so hopefully I should have more information on that as we speak.

Thank you all so much for the advice, it's certainly give me a good bloody shot in the arm I needed about this interview.