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Extremely serious money and inheritance problems

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Posts

  • LewishamLewisham Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I'm in my mid-20s and I own a house. In fact, most of my friends (who are mainly teachers, so aren't making huge wads of cash) also purchased a house in their mid-20s.

    Where? You certainly didn't do this in the UK or New Zealand. Anyway, my point is that millions of people are in the same position, and in a lot of places, it is the norm.

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    If you can't afford rent or a house where you are now, move somewhere else.

  • PorkChopSandwichesPorkChopSandwiches Registered User
    edited February 2008
    Lewisham wrote: »
    I'm in my mid-20s and I own a house. In fact, most of my friends (who are mainly teachers, so aren't making huge wads of cash) also purchased a house in their mid-20s.

    Where? You certainly didn't do this in the UK or New Zealand. Anyway, my point is that millions of people are in the same position, and in a lot of places, it is the norm.

    Guilty - I live in Georgia near Atlanta, where the real estate market is still relatively inexpensive.

  • Blake TBlake T Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    witch_ie wrote: »
    If it really is an inheritance, I'm going to go against the general consensus here and say you should not give it to your parents. Your father has made some very bad decisions in investing. Chances are, he'll make bad decisions again with that money and you're essentially only putting a bandaid on the situation.

    It's money his father earnt throughout his life. It's money his father has a choice to spend as he sees fits. His father needs it to live.

    Seriously Docken look at your priorities.

    You could have your house, or you could not screw over the people that raised you.

    Sure it's a setback, not getting something that someone offered you as a gift (and it's important to remember that it's a gift not a right) sucks big time, but wouldn't you perfer to say you did it all yourself? My father has over a million dollars in property. I've told him multiple times I never want to see a single cent of it. I would far prefer to start at the bottom rung (which I am doing now) and do everything myself, because at the end of it I can say I earned it, not that I was relying on Daddy's trust fund.

  • Dulcius_ex_asperisDulcius_ex_asperis Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    MrOletta wrote: »
    Seriously, billions of people in the history of mankind have been living their lives and buying houses without inheritance - you'll be OK.

    I mean, really. Your situation does suck, as someone else mentioned, but...save up. I can't emphasize enough how much having hardship will be a benefit for you in the end. Similar-ish things happened to my family, and we're poor as shit now, but you can get out of this.

    Plus, just because you're not getting your full inheritance doesn't mean you can't buy a house. Maybe it won't be as luxurious as you'd hoped, but if you persevere you can get there.

    there there, we all have urethras
  • DockenDocken Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Hey guys, thanks to all the helpful people in this thread, after sleeping on it and viewing the responses I feel much better... It was just such a shock and really sent me into a spin.

    Now that I have had time to process it and formulate a plan a feel like I have a little more control.

    It is not a total wreck... at least not for me. I mean I guess it will even be beneficial - I will have less responsibility and maybe even live with some cool people. I will have less in the long term, but there is nothing I can do about that now.
    EggyToast wrote: »
    It's not magic money, it's money that he was told was his. Imagine if your parents say "For your birthday, we'll give you $100." Your birthday rolls around, and a week before, they say "sorry, that money's gone, we lost it." You had plans for it. The higher than sum becomes, the more serious the plans. Since his dad was investing all of this money, he should have told his son as soon as it happened. It sounds like it was delayed quite a bit, though, hence his shock.

    The inheritance I am referencing is money that came from my grandparents on both sides of the family. It was money specifically left to me by my grandparents to help with my first home (as stated in the wills). I am an only child and have few cousins, so I received a fair amount, comparitively speaking. At no stage was it ever legally or technically my parent's though since I was under 18 when it was left to me, my dad received the money on trust until I turned 21. 21 came and went and I left it with my dad as he had taken hedging positions with it to help with his finances.

    Yes, yes, I know that my dad should not have done that and that all the interest/income/etc earned from the money would be mine anyway, but these are my parents, and considering all the help my parents have given me I really felt like it was the least I could do...

    steam_sig.png
  • useless4useless4 Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    If it WAS legally your money then that is a whole different story. sorry.
    I would honestly start talking with your father in that case about how he is going to repay you.
    No sarcasm intended.

    That will be the unpopular answer I know but seriously.

  • VThornheartVThornheart Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    witch_ie wrote: »
    If it really is an inheritance, I'm going to go against the general consensus here and say you should not give it to your parents. Your father has made some very bad decisions in investing. Chances are, he'll make bad decisions again with that money and you're essentially only putting a bandaid on the situation.

    Hmm... you bring up a good point that I hadn't considered earlier... it's a valid concern, given that the money was for you, not FROM him as I originally thought (I assumed by "inheritance" you meant "your dad would give it to you when he died" and not "it was given to you by someone who DID die, and your dad got it and misspent it).

    It's up to you now, Docken. I'd still leave it with your parents, who no doubt will need it now to continue surviving... but if you leave it with your parents, you might want to sit down with your Dad and get him to promise you that he won't mess with hedge funds anymore. That's bad news, especially given his shoddy track record for investment it sounds like.

    Granted, it's hard for you as the son to have a talk like that with your father... but someone's going to have to. If you have to, talk to your Mom and get her to talk to your Dad (if it'd mean more/be received better coming from her than you). As they approach retirement, he needs to start being careful and stop what's pretty much tantamount to high-stakes gambling.

    3DS Friend Code: 1950-8938-9095
  • DockenDocken Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    useless4 wrote: »
    If it WAS legally your money then that is a whole different story. sorry.
    I would honestly start talking with your father in that case about how he is going to repay you.
    No sarcasm intended.

    That will be the unpopular answer I know but seriously.

    Yeah it is 100% legally mine. However, from where I stand, my parents are no longer in a position to pay me back... ever. They are going to be struggling hard to just to keep their heads above water.

    Your answer may be unpopular, but it is still a reasonable suggestion. It's just that there is no way it could work....

    ...my mom just came in to speak to me because she found some nice places for me to look at and possibly bid on. Not so fun sitting there thinking "yeah but what you don't know is that won't be happening now because there is no money for it" and sitting there nodding and saying I will look into "later".

    steam_sig.png
  • Blake TBlake T Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Docken wrote: »
    useless4 wrote: »
    If it WAS legally your money then that is a whole different story. sorry.
    I would honestly start talking with your father in that case about how he is going to repay you.
    No sarcasm intended.

    That will be the unpopular answer I know but seriously.

    Yeah it is 100% legally mine. However, from where I stand, my parents are no longer in a position to pay me back... ever. They are going to be struggling hard to just to keep their heads above water.

    Your answer may be unpopular, but it is still a reasonable suggestion. It's just that there is no way it could work....

    ...my mom just came in to speak to me because she found some nice places for me to look at and possibly bid on. Not so fun sitting there thinking "yeah but what you don't know is that won't be happening now because there is no money for it" and sitting there nodding and saying I will look into "later".

    Legally it's yours. He's right.

    But you parents raised you right?

    Wouldn't it be nice to pay them back and help support them?

  • VThornheartVThornheart Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Docken wrote: »
    useless4 wrote: »
    If it WAS legally your money then that is a whole different story. sorry.
    I would honestly start talking with your father in that case about how he is going to repay you.
    No sarcasm intended.

    That will be the unpopular answer I know but seriously.

    Yeah it is 100% legally mine. However, from where I stand, my parents are no longer in a position to pay me back... ever. They are going to be struggling hard to just to keep their heads above water.

    Your answer may be unpopular, but it is still a reasonable suggestion. It's just that there is no way it could work....

    ...my mom just came in to speak to me because she found some nice places for me to look at and possibly bid on. Not so fun sitting there thinking "yeah but what you don't know is that won't be happening now because there is no money for it" and sitting there nodding and saying I will look into "later".

    Wait, your Mom doesn't KNOW what happened? Somehow I missed that important tidbit.

    She's gonna be PISSED when she finds out your Dad squandered away your inheritance... and rightfully so.

    When the hell is he planning on telling her? He's not STILL investing in hedge funds, is he?

    3DS Friend Code: 1950-8938-9095
  • Rear Admiral ChocoRear Admiral Choco Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    You need to have a talk with your dad about how he'll find some way to get you as much money to you as possible without completely fucking them over. I'd be extremely upset about this, myself. Make sure he tells your mom, too.

    Just a suggestion, but would it be possible to put the money left toward a nice house somehwere where they could live until you take over?

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  • DrFrylockDrFrylock Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    At no stage was it ever legally or technically my parent's though since I was under 18 when it was left to me, my dad received the money on trust until I turned 21. 21 came and went and I left it with my dad as he had taken hedging positions with it to help with his finances.

    This is deeply confusing to me. If the money never belonged to your parents, how was your father able to use it to leverage his personal investments before you turned 21? And obviously all responsibility for it fell to you when you turned 21, so anything that happened after your 21st birthday was your own responsibility. Of course, the average 21 year old would not be ready for that kind of responsibility, but yet it was yours anyway.

    I once walked out of a courtroom with an attorney who had, not ten minutes before, delivered the closing argument in a quarter billion dollar lawsuit. We started commenting on some of the particulars and he seemed rather calm given what had just happened. He said something that has always stuck with me:

    "Well, it is what it is."

    He knew from long experience that torturing himself over every little thing that happened or didn't was pointless, since it was in a jury's hands at the time. Your situation is similar: yes, the situation isn't ideal for you. However, unless you know a wacky white-haired scientist with a spare DeLorean, there's not much you're going to be able to do about that. The real question for you is: what are you going to do about the situation as it stands now?

    Ultimately, that's up to you. Sitting on your hump and doing nothing is probably not a good option. If I were you:

    1) First, no matter what I decided to do with the money, I would (like tomorrow) make sure that any remaining money is under your control. Leaving your father in control of any of the money, for any reason, isn't smart. Yes, it's a little emasculating for him. However, if you're interested in somebody you know keeping the rest of it, it's probably best that he not be allowed to manage it anymore. Every day you don't do this jeopardizes it.

    2) Second, I would try to make sure that I didn't do a repeat performance. Put it in a savings account until you can figure out what to do with it. As you've (expensively) learned, "AAA paper" isn't. If you decide not to spend it or give it away right away, you might consider finding a competent financial advisor who is not related to you.

    - - -

    Now, as for what to do with it, again that's up to you. I know what I would do, because of two experiences in my life.

    First, I was actually looking at houses (well, tiny little condos) when I was about your age and was planning to use some money that had been saved for me (and a few other family members) by my family for such a purpose. Then, as I was looking, I found out that a family member who was also a beneficiary and was on the account had decided to withdraw all the money to support a drug habit.

    Was I disappointed? Yes. However, since I never felt entitled to anything I didn't personally earn, I didn't have the kind of reaction to it that you seem to be having. I have the (mis)fortune of hindsight in this situation, since many years on the housing market has gone substantially insane and I'm still renting. The tiny condos I was looking at back then are now far outside my buying power despite the fact that the IRS says I make a whole lot of money.

    Second, I stand to inherit a moderate sum when my last grandparent dies, hopefully many years from now. My father is dead, and so my siblings and I are the only heirs. I'm quite certain that they will use the money for themselves. As for me, I'm very happy that I have this money coming to me. The reason I'm happy is because it gives me a way to give my Mom a retirement account that, having gone back to work at an older age and having to support my dad through his illness, she was never able to earn for herself. All things being equal, would it be great to use this money for a house for myself? Absolutely. But things are not equal. I'm faced with facts: Mom is getting older and she will otherwise have no practical way to retire. Ever. I find it hard to feel cheated or wronged here, since there's simply no alternative. It is what it is.

    Is it a good idea for you to move to one of the many cheap(er) real-estate markets somewhere, where you can afford a house? That depends on your personal temperment. I'm strongly against this kind of move. It's an easy one-way move, but it's a tough round trip. While you'll find that real estate prices are lower in those areas, you'll also find that wages are lower as well. Maybe the proportions are different than where you are now, but if you ever intend to move back to the market you're in now, you'll be at the bottom of a steep hill. I could move to Alabama right now and buy a nice house for say $100,000. And after five years, maybe it will be worth $150,000, if I'm lucky. Unfortunately, the condos back here at home have gone up from $300,000 to $500,000 and now I'm even more screwed than I was when I left.

    As for your Mom not knowing, whether or not you tell her is up to you. However, if you're smart, you're going to go take control of your finances tomorrow. Surely she's going to figure out that something's up. I wouldn't go to any trouble to hide the situation. She's going to find out sooner or later when her checks start bouncing anyway, might as well find out before it hits rock bottom.

    Spoiler:
  • DockenDocken Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    DrFrylock wrote: »

    This is deeply confusing to me. If the money never belonged to your parents, how was your father able to use it to leverage his personal investments before you turned 21? And obviously all responsibility for it fell to you when you turned 21, so anything that happened after your 21st birthday was your own responsibility. Of course, the average 21 year old would not be ready for that kind of responsibility, but yet it was yours anyway.

    Well he had control of the money as trustee of the trust. As trustee had could use it as he wished provided it was for the benefit of the beneficiary. His interpretation was that since I was under his roof and paying no rent, it was in my interest that he invest it for the betterment of the family. Myself included.

    DrFrylock wrote: »
    1) First, no matter what I decided to do with the money, I would (like tomorrow) make sure that any remaining money is under your control. Leaving your father in control of any of the money, for any reason, isn't smart. Yes, it's a little emasculating for him. However, if you're interested in somebody you know keeping the rest of it, it's probably best that he not be allowed to manage it anymore. Every day you don't do this jeopardizes it.

    2) Second, I would try to make sure that I didn't do a repeat performance. Put it in a savings account until you can figure out what to do with it. As you've (expensively) learned, "AAA paper" isn't. If you decide not to spend it or give it away right away, you might consider finding a competent financial advisor who is not related to you.

    I have total control of my remaining finances. I also have financial sector experience (nothing advanced, but a solid foundation) so I feel reasonably confident of keeping it fairly safe. Nothing fancy, just blue chip mining stocks.

    DrFrylock wrote: »
    Is it a good idea for you to move to one of the many cheap(er) real-estate markets somewhere, where you can afford a house? That depends on your personal temperment. I'm strongly against this kind of move. It's an easy one-way move, but it's a tough round trip.

    I agree, as moving from my current area is completely out of the question - my future now depends on the job I have, and it is not something which I could possibly replicate anywhere else with any certainty.

    steam_sig.png
  • DakalDakal Registered User
    edited February 2008
    1) Support yourself. Relying on others, even family will get you nowhere fast. Other people will look out for themselves first.

    2) It is a buyers market, if you have the money saved (your own money, not your parents) to get a mortgage on a small house in an area that will gain in value after this sub prime collapse, you should do it.

    3) Being close to work is a bonus, but what you should be thinking about is wise moves for your financial future, not how close or how long it till take to get to work.

    4) Commuting isnt so bad, if you can find a place within an hour or two of your work, and can suffer through the commute until you are able to afford a car, do it.

    It sounds like if you rent, you will be renting for a very long time with little odds of being able to get out of that situation. Renting is the largest waste of money ever. Some People pay more in rent than in what it would cost them to pay a mortgage. If you think of paying a mortgage in terms of paying rent, it is the same, however you can eventually pay it off, and you also have an asset to sell if you need to.
    Buying a house and commuting to work is the way to go. ALSO, since your parents are retired, and are in financial trouble, it might be a good idea for them to move in with you.

  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    Docken wrote: »
    ...my mom just came in to speak to me because she found some nice places for me to look at and possibly bid on. Not so fun sitting there thinking "yeah but what you don't know is that won't be happening now because there is no money for it" and sitting there nodding and saying I will look into "later".

    Jeese...this is your bigger problem, really. Money can take a back seat, the relationship between you, your dad and your mum is what you need to worry most about right now. You need to go and talk to your dad and force him to talk to your mother, preferably be there to help douse any flare-ups. Don't let this shit tear your family apart. No matter how much money he lost, it isn't worth that.

    People are saying some pretty harsh things about how your dad 'squandered' you inheritance or 'gambled it all away', but that's rubbish. Investing money as a trustee is normal, even good practice. The problem with investments is that they can go shits up, but that doesn't mean it was irresponsible of him to invest your money rather than just stashing it under the mattress. This situation is difficult because it was your dad who lost the investment rather than a faceless investment company, not because what he did was irresponsible.

  • PirateJonPirateJon Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    People are saying some pretty harsh things about how your dad 'squandered' you inheritance or 'gambled it all away', but that's rubbish. Investing money as a trustee is normal, even good practice.


    If this is true:
    It was money specifically left to me by my grandparents to help with my first home (as stated in the wills). I am an only child and have few cousins, so I received a fair amount, comparitively speaking. At no stage was it ever legally or technically my parent's though since I was under 18 when it was left to me, my dad received the money on trust until I turned 21. 21 came and went and I left it with my dad as he had taken hedging positions with it to help with his finances.

    Yes, yes, I know that my dad should not have done that and that all the interest/income/etc earned from the money would be mine anyway, but these are my parents, and considering all the help my parents have given me I really felt like it was the least I could do...

    Then he most certainly should not have invested it in anything where loss would be an issue.

    My read - he's a greedy fuck who got burned and shitted his own child.

    I'd talk to a lawyer.

    all perfectionists are mediocre in their own eyes
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    PirateJon wrote: »
    Then he most certainly should not have invested it in anything where loss would be an issue.

    My read - he's a greedy fuck who got burned and shitted his own child.

    I'd talk to a lawyer.

    Well then, you don't know what you're talking about. If his father was a trustee, then he was made responsible for the money until Doken was old enough to receive it (21). My parents were trustees to money left to me and my siblings by our grandfather and I tell you what I'm fucking glad that they saw it invested in stocks and shares because the risk, in my case, paid off.

    He acted in the best interests of his son but luck took a shit on them and he lost the money. We don't know anything else. I'm sure there are plenty of similar stories coming out of the recent financial turmoil. Talking to a lawyer is worthless and stupid, because his dad doesn't have any money or assets squirrelled away that he can sue out of him and also it's his dad for fucks sake.

  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    If you have enough money to invest in blue-chips then you have enough money to be relatively secure. Yes, you're taking a fall down into what, middle class? I can understand for someone that is used to that sort of life, it would be shocking, but you're going to have to man up and earn yourself a place in the world.

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  • PirateJonPirateJon Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I don't know how you can call the lying and mismanagement acting in his son's best interest.

    I do know that anyone who's shown such disregard shouldn't be trusted to be totally honest with what they do have.

    If this was "Joe's investments and carwash" that dicked him over, there would be no question. Get a lawyer.

    all perfectionists are mediocre in their own eyes
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    PirateJon wrote: »
    I don't know how you can call the lying and mismanagement acting in his son's best interest.

    I do know that anyone who's shown such disregard shouldn't be trusted to be totally honest with what they do have.

    If this was "Joe's investments and carwash" that dicked him over, there would be no question. Get a lawyer.

    I'm sorry, lying?

    When did he lie to Docken? He's lied (or, at least, withheld the truth) from Docken's mother, but then legally he has no recourse to keep her informed of the state of the trust.

    Mismanagement? He invested the money, the investment went shits up. That's not mismanagement where investment is concerned. That's an unfortunate possibility and one that even professional investors risk.

    Disregard? Disregard for what, exactely? You have no evidence to suggest that Docken's father treated the investment callously. Simply because he lost the money on the stockmarket doesn't mean he acted negligently.

    'Dicked him over'? If you leave your money with any investor, there's a chance the investments they place it in will not pay off. The only time you'd get a lawyer involved would be if 'Joe's investments and carwash' simply vanished with the money without presenting any proof that it was invested and lost or if you suspected them of some form of investment fraud.


    Seriously, just stop with the stupid, misinformed advice, huh? 'LOL SUE UR DAD DUDE!' is the most retarded shit I've read here in a long while. Docken and his family have got a long and emotional road ahead of them and that asinine, immature crap isn't going to help any of them.

  • witch_iewitch_ie Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I've been in a similar situation of a family being the trustee of a custodial account set up by my grandparents and abusing that position. Whether it was his intent or not is not the issue. The thing to keep in mind despite the very real fact that your father did not guard your inheritance appropriately is that it's only money.

    Since it sounds like you have a good relationship with your Dad and it is important to you, you're doing the right thing. That doesn't excuse his behavior. It was wrong and if it were me (and it has been), my trust in him would be seriously erroded.

  • Andrew_JayAndrew_Jay Registered User
    edited February 2008
    'Dicked him over'? If you leave your money with any investor, there's a chance the investments they place it in will not pay off. The only time you'd get a lawyer involved would be if 'Joe's investments and carwash' simply vanished with the money without presenting any proof that it was invested and lost or if you suspected them of some form of investment fraud.
    And there's also the change that the investment will not pay off because of the investor's negligence. In which case you can definately sue.

    I'm certainly not recommending it at all, but yes, getting a lawyer involved and suing over the lost money could be a possible course of action. However, it would be best for all involved to not do that.

  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    Andrew_Jay wrote: »
    'Dicked him over'? If you leave your money with any investor, there's a chance the investments they place it in will not pay off. The only time you'd get a lawyer involved would be if 'Joe's investments and carwash' simply vanished with the money without presenting any proof that it was invested and lost or if you suspected them of some form of investment fraud.
    And there's also the change that the investment will not pay off because of the investor's negligence. In which case you can definately sue.

    I'm certainly not recommending it at all, but yes, getting a lawyer involved and suing over the lost money could be a possible course of action. However, it would be best for all involved to not do that.

    Especially as it sounds like there's nothing left to sue for. His parents don't even own their house any more. And Docken himself says that his dad invested in two AAA investment funds run by different banks which both collapsed so it sounds like the loss was unfortunate rather than negligent anyway.
    witch_ie wrote:
    That doesn't excuse his behavior.

    What behaviour exactely? I've re-read Docken's posts in detail and there's nothing there to suggest that his dad was acting maliciously or deviantly. The only slightly odd thing is the suggestion that the income from the trust may have been siphoned off for running the family household, which I'm not sure is entirely kosher while the investment was a trust rather than just a privately managed investment owned by his father and seeded using money given to him by Docken. If anything, it should have either been reinvested or paid out to Docken, but I guess that could be circumvented by saying it was paid to Docken who then gifted in to the family household/his parents. Either way, for this to happen, the investments would have had to be profitable (in order to generate an income) which suggests they were being well managed at the time.

  • FandyienFandyien But Otto, what about us? Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I'd merely like to take a second to point out that, when building ones life outside of home independently, it would probably be mentally healthier not to be given a sum as vast as that. I mean, most people certainly don't start their lives like that, and the fact that you are incredibly incensed and considering legal action against your own family is positively sickening.

    I understand that sounds harsh and you have a legal right to pursue this, but having that option doesn't make it ethically viable. Man up. Do things the real way, and don't complain that you lost something that would be a veritable fortune to almost anybody else in your age group.

    It sounds to me like you need to get your head on straight, man.

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  • DockenDocken Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Fandyien wrote: »
    I'd merely like to take a second to point out that, when building ones life outside of home independently, it would probably be mentally healthier not to be given a sum as vast as that. I mean, most people certainly don't start their lives like that, and the fact that you are incredibly incensed and considering legal action against your own family is positively sickening.

    I understand that sounds harsh and you have a legal right to pursue this, but having that option doesn't make it ethically viable. Man up. Do things the real way, and don't complain that you lost something that would be a veritable fortune to almost anybody else in your age group.

    It sounds to me like you need to get your head on straight, man.

    Hey I didn't say I was going to sue?!?! Jesus, it was just some guys on the thread who were discussing it... come on, please read my posts before opining on my predicament.
    What behaviour exactely? I've re-read Docken's posts in detail and there's nothing there to suggest that his dad was acting maliciously or deviantly. The only slightly odd thing is the suggestion that the income from the trust may have been siphoned off for running the family household, which I'm not sure is entirely kosher while the investment was a trust rather than just a privately managed investment owned by his father and seeded using money given to him by Docken. If anything, it should have either been reinvested or paid out to Docken, but I guess that could be circumvented by saying it was paid to Docken who then gifted in to the family household/his parents. Either way, for this to happen, the investments would have had to be profitable (in order to generate an income) which suggests they were being well managed at the time.

    Yeah, what he did was technically dodgy, in terms of how he he appropriated the interest of the trust to run the household, but that does not impact upon the root investment decision to invest in those two funds.

    Besides, this is all moot anyway because he is my dad and he was still trying to do what he thought was in the best interests of everyone, which I ultimately support, and still do.

    And I think it should be mentioned that until the credit crisis happened, there had never been a circumstance in which AAA rated paper defaulted. It just didn't happen, hell it wasn't ever supposed to be possible based on the system the Rating Agencies adopted.... he just got royally screwed by circumstances out of his control and was not competent enough to act to minimise the loss. Does it mean he is still technically liable? It does, as a trustee is always in the shit when they blow the whole trust, that goes without saying. But I think we have established that I love my dad and that is far more important than any dollar amount.

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