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Can we agree that racial, gender, and identity politics suck?

widowsonwidowson Registered User regular
edited March 2008 in Debate and/or Discourse
I assume that’s what Geraldine Ferraro was getting at when she said Obama wouldn’t be where he was today (i.e., leading the race for the Democratic nomination) if he was white. For her infelicity, the first woman on a presidential ticket got bounced from the Clinton campaign and denounced by MSNBC’s Keith Olbermann for her “insidious racism” indistinguishable from “the vocabulary of David Duke.”

Oh, for cryin’ out loud. Enjoyable as it is to watch previously expert wielders of identity-politics hand-grenades blow their own fingers off, if Geraldine Ferraro’s an “insidious racist,” who isn’t?

-Mark Steyn, National Review


I find it deeply ironic that some Clinton supporters are being called racist and some Obama supporters are called sexist, even when they are making their choice based on reason and beliefs and not saying crazy things like Ferraro here. Speaking of which, was it dumb? Yeah. Is she David Duke? No...

Why is this ironic?

Because identity politics have apparently been such a big weapon in the democratic arsenal for many to use against the GOP; chucking accusations and insinuations of racism and sexism to silence debate and scare women/minorities into voting democrat by unfairly painting republicans as closet racists and sexists.

Seriously, how does it now feel to be treated like a Republican?

Doesn't it hurt, as an Obama supporter, to be called a sexist even though you support the guy because you think he's just the better person for the job?

And doesn't it suck as a Clinton supporter to be called a racist just because you're not backing a black guy because you think Hillary is the better person for the job?

Identity politics are also divisive. Right now the democratic party is neatly divided in two; Obama and most of the young and/or male and/or black democrats vrs. Hillary and most of the old and/or female and/or hispanic Democrats.

Do you now see how destructive and unhelpful it could be on, say, a national level?

Mayby it's a tactic best taken out back and shot, if for no other reason than an acknowledgment that Republicans are people you disagree with, not Nazis, and that it's splitting the party and increasing the liklihood of hearing "I, John Sidney McCain, do solemly swear..."

-I owe nothing to Women's Lib.

Margaret Thatcher
widowson on

Posts

  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    No, the tactic that needs to be taken out back and shot is the tooth-and-nail in-fighting and negative campaigning that the Democratic party candidates get into every goddamn election. All it does is weaken both candidates for the general election.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    "Closet" racist and sexists? Seriously? You're talking about the party that regularly runs on a platform of "we's gonna get us some darkies" in the less-open-minded areas of the South (and saying that someplace in the South is "less-open-minded" is really saying something), denying women the right to control their own bodies, denying women maternity leave, denying that there's a race problem in this country (aside from some wings of the party, who like to claim that white males are persecuted), etc., etc., etc.

    Most Republicans may not be racists and sexists, but the Republican party has absolutely no problem appealing to the basest interests in our society in order to pull in the racist and sexist vote every goddamn election, and they sure as fuck don't go out of their way to try to appeal to African Americans or working women.

    Is Geraldine Ferraro a racist? I have no clue. Is she using the same sort of tactics that the Republicans typically do in order to score some cheap votes for Billary? Absolutely. Should she be held accountable for that? Without a doubt.

    No one is saying all Clinton supporters are racist, or all Obama supporters are sexist; we're just saying all McCain supporters are supporting a racist, sexist party, and that is objectively true.

    Thanatos on
  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited March 2008
    Is Ferraro a racist? I don't care, but I do know she's dog-whistling. Oh, just look at how poor Hillary has been working so hard, for the nomination that is rightly hers, only to have it lifted from under her by a guy who only could've done it because he's black. Didn't you lose that promotion or that job to some black guy? It's probably the same, isn't it? Goddamn that Obama, and what he's doing to poor Hillary.

    Elki on
    smCQ5WE.jpg
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    You know, taking advice on "identity politics" from a person who has a posting history of racist, sexist, and homophobic comments is...well, it's like a chicken voting for Col. Sanders.

    AngelHedgie on
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • MuragoMurago Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    sometimes i think, "God damn, is this really what people think? Are there really people that are voting based on color or gender? This has to be fucking propaganda that media spins in order for high ratings. People don't really think like this."

    And then i realize that there is a majority...a MAJORITY, that do think this way. My mind doesn't want to accept it, and i just make myself ignorant b/c the very thought makes me sick. And the people who the majority look to (pick your media outlet) they just fucking feed it to them. By the truck loads.

    Murago on
    Check out www.myspace.com/scarborough -- tell me what you think!
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Republicans are not racists. It's a common misconception based on unfortunate coincidences. Like in 2000, when so many southern Republicans realised that McCain's economic policy relied on outdated predictions of trade revenues and an inaccurate model of the impact of interest rate increases right at the exact moment they learned he had an illegitimate black son. So you see, they changed their vote out of sound economic concerns, not racism.

    Richy on
    sig.gif
  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited March 2008
    Where is your avy from, widowson?

    Elki on
    smCQ5WE.jpg
  • LawndartLawndart Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    widowson wrote: »
    Because identity politics have apparently been such a big weapon in the democratic arsenal for many to use against the GOP; chucking accusations and insinuations of racism and sexism to silence debate and scare women/minorities into voting democrat by unfairly painting republicans as closet racists and sexists.

    Yes, because it's not like the GOP has ever done anything to merit accusations of racism.

    And of course, the only reason women and minorities vote Democrat is because they've been scared into doing so by the Democratic Party. Good thing people who vote Republican aren't so weak-minded!

    Oh, and I never heard the GOP complaining about "identity politics" being bad when the Cuban vote was delivering them electoral victories in Florida.

    Lawndart on
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    No, the tactic that needs to be taken out back and shot is the tooth-and-nail in-fighting and negative campaigning that the Democratic party candidates get into every goddamn election. All it does is weaken both candidates for the general election.

    Absolutely. I haven't noticed any attempted smearing on Obama's part, but some of the stuff the Clinton camp is throwing around is really disappointing. The only person that shit helps is McCain.

    Speaking as a Canadian whose only stake in the election is the next person who'll take the helm of 'the free world', so to speak, I don't care who it is as long as it's not McCain. The rest of the world and I are still trying to get our jaws off the floor that Bush got you guys into Iraq under false pretenses, has kept you there, and still got re-elected. Seriously, we were all boggled.

    Obama? Great. Hillary? Fine. McCain? If McCain becomes the next president of the United States... it'll only get worse.

    *

    Even with a Democrat getting in, I have this horrible premonition that the obscene debt Bush has placed you guys in will be pinned on the next administration, and the general public will be so pissed off with how legitimately screwed your economy is they'll boot the democrat in four years and bring in George W. ver. 2.0.

    It's none of my business, but even we up here in the great white north are looking at the U.S. election with hope and fear.

    Chance on
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Chance wrote: »
    It's none of my business, but even we up here in the great white north are looking at the U.S. election with hope and fear.
    My Politics in Canada professor described the Canadian position as "being next to a sleeping elephant; every time it moves just a bit, you feel it."

    And yes, he was Canadian.

    Thanatos on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    widowson wrote: »
    I find it deeply ironic that some Clinton supporters are being called racist and some Obama supporters are called sexist, even when they are making their choice based on reason and beliefs and not saying crazy things like Ferraro here. Speaking of which, was it dumb? Yeah. Is she David Duke? No...

    Noone of consequence (re: anyone outside of stupid blogs) has called Geraldine Ferraro a racist. No matter what she might say on the TV talk circuit, that simply is not the case. What people have done is claimed that what she said was a racist remark.

    Yes. There is a difference.

    moniker on
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    What I find the most insulting is that it's only "identity politics" when it's done in favor of a minority group. But when the GOP advocates positions that clearly benefit the white, the male, the wealthy, the Christian...that's not "identity politics". It's the most disgusting sort of framing.

    AngelHedgie on
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    It's none of my business, but even we up here in the great white north are looking at the U.S. election with hope and fear.
    My Politics in Canada professor described the Canadian position as "being next to a sleeping elephant; every time it moves just a bit, you feel it."

    And yes, he was Canadian.

    Your Professor likes to quote Trudeau. Ask him if he's ever been given a Shawinigan Handshake. If not, offer to give him one and see what he says.

    saggio on
    3DS: 0232-9436-6893
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I don't follow politics too closely, but from all I've seen and read, this sums up my opinions on this particular case:
    Elki wrote: »
    Is Ferraro a racist? I don't care, but I do know she's dog-whistling. Oh, just look at how poor Hillary has been working so hard, for the nomination that is rightly hers, only to have it lifted from under her by a guy who only could've done it because he's black. Didn't you lose that promotion or that job to some black guy? It's probably the same, isn't it? Goddamn that Obama, and what he's doing to poor Hillary.

    The whole thing is a clusterfuck and the democrats (the party I subscribe to) should be fucking ashamed for all that's going on.

    I understand that the Clintons feel appalled and shocked that the nomination hasn't easily tumbled into their pocket like a silver spoon at a dinner party. And dammit I was even a huge, enormous Bill Clinton fan. But wake the fuck up Hilary. You aren't owed anything. Every time I hear her speak or hear anyone in her supporting chorus say anything that suggests it's ridiculous for Obama to have made it this far makes me want him to win all that much more.

    Drez on
    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
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