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[Brainstorm On] Design a Shadowrun inspired roguelike

vhzodvhzod Registered User regular
edited April 2008 in Games and Technology
The thought hit me as I was playing Incursions (which is a roguelike based on D&D 3rd ed). I want a shadowrunesque roguelike. Maybe using the shadowrun rules directly. Something with guns and cybernetic implants and a VR computer interface. I was thinking about it and it can't just be an endless random dungeon like most roguelikes. I was imagining a central hub (your house) that can lead to different missions with random maps. Maybe the goal can be obtaining a certain lifestyle or something. Anyway, I can't program it but maybe I can inspire someone else to.

vhzod on
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  • ImpersonatorImpersonator Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    This would actually be..a great idea

    Impersonator on
  • The DeliveratorThe Deliverator Slingin Pies The California BurbclavesRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    This does sound like an awesome idea. Why must a roguelike allways be fantasy based? Hell, RPGs in general allways seem to be fantasy based, why? More cyberpunk please, chummers.

    The Deliverator on
  • rvcontre78rvcontre78 Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Y'know I've always read about roguelike games but I can't say that I've ever gotten into any of them. Are there any roguelike-lite games out there? The learning curve seems a little steep for me at the moment.

    rvcontre78 on
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  • rvcontre78rvcontre78 Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    This does sound like an awesome idea. Why must a roguelike allways be fantasy based? Hell, RPGs in general allways seem to be fantasy based, why? More cyberpunk please, chummers.

    Hmm... well they always seem to be fantasy or cyberpunk. Why not another one genre? I'd play the hell out of a game based on the wheelings and dealings of being a lawyer... oh wait. What are the under served genres?

    rvcontre78 on
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  • The DeliveratorThe Deliverator Slingin Pies The California BurbclavesRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    rvcontre78 wrote: »
    This does sound like an awesome idea. Why must a roguelike allways be fantasy based? Hell, RPGs in general allways seem to be fantasy based, why? More cyberpunk please, chummers.

    Hmm... well they always seem to be fantasy or cyberpunk. Why not another one genre? I'd play the hell out of a game based on the wheelings and dealings of being a lawyer... oh wait. What are the under served genres?

    I'd say there are more hardcore sci-fi rpgs out there than there are cyberpunk ones, really. They're both entirely eclipsed by the sheer number of fantasy ones.

    The Deliverator on
  • Duchess ProzacDuchess Prozac Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    rvcontre78 wrote: »
    Y'know I've always read about roguelike games but I can't say that I've ever gotten into any of them. Are there any roguelike-lite games out there? The learning curve seems a little steep for me at the moment.

    DoomRL is pretty basic and rather fun but won't really prepare you for the likes of Nethack.

    Duchess Prozac on
  • RaslinRaslin Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Really? Are "make X game for me" threads cool now?

    I didn't get the memo

    Raslin on
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  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    This does sound like an awesome idea. Why must a roguelike allways be fantasy based? Hell, RPGs in general allways seem to be fantasy based, why? More cyberpunk please, chummers.

    Phantasy Star says hi.

    Edit - Well okay it isn't a roguelike, but I just wanted to say (subtly) that non-fantasy RPG's have already been done as great as they can be.

    Henroid on
  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Two words:

    Renraku. Arcology.

    There, you've got a setting for a Roguelike.

    PMAvers on
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  • MarkyXMarkyX Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    That's a really damn good question. Why hasn't anyone done this yet? Doesn't have to be Shadowrun; any sci-fi or cyberpunk setting could do.

    MarkyX on
  • vhzodvhzod Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Well I have some crazy ideas and a poor knowledge of XNA. DOOMED PA GAME PROJECT HOOOO... I can get xna to display some tiles anyway. I don't know how to do AI or a random level maker though.

    vhzod on
  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    When I read the words "somebody make" I think "make it your damn self you lazy bastard." If you want to see one, do it yourself! Learn some code, design a game and make it. We'd all appreciate a good Rogue-like, especially one in the Shadowrun universe (and boy does it need a good game now).

    Zombiemambo on
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  • vhzodvhzod Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I'm too retarded to code. *drool*

    vhzod on
  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Yeah, we all are, but some of us do it, eh? You're just too lazy to do it. Don't ask someone to make a game you wouldn't be willing to make yourself if you were given the chance.

    Zombiemambo on
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  • vhzodvhzod Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I've tried before I really can't do it. My brain just can't solve programming problems. Furthermore I find coding unpleasant to do. It sucks having game ideas you can't do anything with.

    vhzod on
  • PataPata Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    rvcontre78 wrote: »
    Y'know I've always read about roguelike games but I can't say that I've ever gotten into any of them. Are there any roguelike-lite games out there? The learning curve seems a little steep for me at the moment.

    Powder. Has a PC, GBA, DS, and PSP versions.

    Pata on
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  • The DeliveratorThe Deliverator Slingin Pies The California BurbclavesRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Powder, while good, is not exactly roguelike-lite, and not terribly forgiving. Shiren the Wanderer on the DS is a good tooth-cutter, I think. It's not overly complex like nethack is, but it teaches you the basic principles and strategies to a roguelike.

    The Deliverator on
  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I like IVAN a lot. Graphics, easy gameplay to cut your teeth on, and the most glorious deaths you can imagine.

    Zombiemambo on
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  • rvcontre78rvcontre78 Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Cool, I'll keep an eye out for those. Thanks. : )



    Now I just need someone to teach me to play Dwarf Fortress.

    rvcontre78 on
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  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Zombiemambo on
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  • rvcontre78rvcontre78 Registered User regular
    edited March 2008

    Oh cool, thanks, man. I'll definitely take a look at that. I've been spoiled by years of console gaming but I can't wait to try the game out.

    rvcontre78 on
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  • YougottawannaYougottawanna Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I support this thread.

    Yougottawanna on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited March 2008
    PMAvers wrote: »
    Renraku. Arcology.

    All my dicks

    Echo on
  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I don't see this going anywhere but if the OP wants to give it a chance he really needs to flesh out the game design even if he can't code for crap.

    As for how to do it, there is an angband variant called T.O.M.E. that has the following features:
    • Static overworld with both random and static dungeons.
    • Built in modability
    • Totally unbalanced

    Might not be too hard to have a city map as the overworld and have various arcologies/research parks/military bases as dungeons.

    Probably the trickiest part would be cyberspace since you should ideally have another set of stats in there.

    Maybe start with http://modules.t-o-m-e.net/

    Overall I think a more combat driven roguelike might work better than something more surreal like nethack.

    lowlylowlycook on
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  • vhzodvhzod Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I've been thinking about using a slight variation of the 4th Ed Shadowrun ruleset as I understand them. Each skill level is a d6 and 5s and 6s are hits. How difficult the task is determines the number of hits required to determine success or failure. If you make a certain number of hits over the threshold you get a critical success.

    For combat there would have to be initative zones that would determine which enemies are in a particular combat. Initiating combat would make a certain radius around the combatant which would force everyone inside into combat mode. All of these people have a radius around them that could possibly force more people into the fight and so on. Then you'd roll initative to see who goes when. When its the players turn they get a certain number of action points lets say (not many since its shadowrun) you can move a short distance, do a basic attack twice or one complex attack.

    I'd like a graphical representation of the player's safehouse but really all thats needed is a Pocket Secretary. It could "look online" for jobs and call up suppliers to have equipment shipped to you. Once you pick a job then you get transported to it which randomly generates a map who's size is based on the difficulty level of the mission. As you do more missions you could get or lose rep which lets you take harder missions. An example level 1 mission would be to clear a sewer of devil rats or something. Once you've completed the mission you can dick around until you turn on your pocket secretary which puts you back in the central menu. Other mission objectives could also be stealing an item, killing someone specific, destroying a specific object or objects, or defending persons or places.

    Later on you could add the Matrix but thats a whole different can of worms.

    vhzod on
  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Echo wrote: »
    PMAvers wrote: »
    Renraku. Arcology.

    All my dicks


    Throw in Deus making a mess of it and we have a winner.

    MechMantis on
  • vhzodvhzod Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    The Renraku Arcology with Deus gone mad is like System Shock 1 basically isn't it? Crazy robots and even mutated experiments if I recall my shadowrun history.

    vhzod on
  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    vhzod wrote: »
    The Renraku Arcology with Deus gone mad is like System Shock 1 basically isn't it? Crazy robots and even mutated experiments if I recall my shadowrun history.


    AKA: Prime Nethackish-type rogue-like. C'mon, you know you want it.

    MechMantis on
  • jotjot Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    You guys could check out decker

    You could also continue to complain about stuff.

    How come there's no Gummi Bears FPS???

    jot on
  • vhzodvhzod Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I've played decker. Its solely about the matrix, no guns in sight. Its also really hard.

    vhzod on
  • krylon666krylon666 Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    i've been thinking about making a roguelike for a while now, and a shadowrun (or just cyberpunk) one was definitely at the top of the list. now that i'm unemployed (i mean... self-employed) i may actually have time to work on it! then again, maybe i'll just spend that time playing games.

    i was thinking static overworld with a mission system that generated random "dungeons" to explore (like said in previous posts). pretty straight forward implementation, and doing the matrix wouldn't be too tough - unless you wanted to deck-in while inside the dungeon. but even then it probably wouldn't be too hard to keep track of everything.

    krylon666 on
  • vhzodvhzod Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I was thinking that you could either do missions in the matrix which would put you in a randomly generated node. Or you could just deck out of your house or random place you break into and just dick around making money stealing data. I think an overworld is going to be too hard though. Maybe it could be like an overworld map with random encounters. Also there could be different districts in the city you need a minimum lifestyle standard to be able to enter. Like you start out in the slums and can't get to the downtown area with more lucrative mission locations until you're middle class lifestyle.

    You could even have some kind of driving aspect of the game where a rigger to come into play. Maybe a whole vehicle based mission line like smuggling, blockade running, transporting people and goods and so on. Having riggers would also allow the use of drones.

    Also maybe you could find clues in missions and on the matrix that lead to special missions in random buildings on the map. You can only get into the mission area unless you have the clue. But being able to raid/explore abandoned structures would be a nice touch as well. It would be nice if there were other ways to make money besides doing someone elses missions.

    vhzod on
  • PataPata Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    If I had the coding ability (read: any coding ability at all) I'd make a Final Fantasy themed rougelike for kicks.

    Pata on
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  • vhzodvhzod Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    What features would a final fantasy roguelike have?

    vhzod on
  • PataPata Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    A Job system like FFT.

    Pata on
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  • VThornheartVThornheart Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    it wouldn't be able to have its traditional turn-based combat, nor flashy attack/spell animations.

    It *would* be amusing for FF fans, in an inside joke kind of way.

    (Select Merton as your spell ability from the menu)

    (the miscellaneous colored letters and symbols standing around your brightly-colored "@" symbol disappear)

    Your Merton hits the Giant Rat for 106 damage. The giant rat dissolves into a molten puddle of its own internal organs! Your Merton hits the Goblin Chieftain for 202 damage. The Goblin Chieftain bursts into flames, crying in agony! Your Merton hits the Lesser Demon for 196 damage. The Lesser Demon vanishes in a puff of quickly burning ash! Your Merton heals you for 209 damage, you flame-shield wielding bastard.

    VThornheart on
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  • vhzodvhzod Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I'm reading the shadowrun 4 book. Apparently combat goes like this.
    1. Roll Initiative (Reaction + Intution + hits on a test using the Reaction +Intuition number as the # of dice)
    Highest goes first, some super speedy people can act in more than one Initative Pass
    2. Declare actions, 1 free action + 2 simple action or 1 complex action
    a. Free actions, can do one per phase any time after your action phase Ex: Run, Talk, Go Prone
    b. Simple Actions can do 2 per phase on your phase Ex: Reload Clip, Single Shot, Stand Up, Ready Gun, Throw
    c. Complex actions can do 1 per phase instead of simple actions on your phase Ex: Full Auto, Melee, Skill

    When you're trying to shoot someone you roll a number of dice based on your attributes and/or skills:
    Attacker rolls: Agility + Firearm Skill +/- Modifiers
    Defender rolls: Reaction +/- Modifiers
    Defender can go into Full Defense as a Complex action which means they roll: Reaction + Dodge skill +/-Mods
    If the attacker gets more net hits then they succesfully have shot someone
    Guns have a base DV (Damage Value) that indicates the number of damage boxes they do
    Each net success on the opposed shooting roll increases the DV by one
    Then the defender rolls Body + Armor Value (the attack can reduce armor value if it has Armor Piercing)
    Each success reduces the DV by 1 and if it gets to 0 or lower no damage is taken
    Note: If the DV of the shot is less than the Armor value after penetration the attack does Stun instead of Physical Damage

    There's a bunch of modifications on number of dice rolled based on the conditions and attackers but thats the basics
    Shadowrun is complimicated and this is STREAMLINED 4th edition, 3rd had varying thresholds on the rolls
    Having a computer handle all of this would take a lot of the headache out though

    vhzod on
  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    jot wrote: »
    You guys could check out decker

    You could also continue to complain about stuff.

    How come there's no Gummi Bears FPS???
    This was pretty fucking addicting for a couple of days once I figured everything out.


    That, and now I have a mental image I can use when describing matrixy action in my sessions.

    Der Waffle Mous on
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  • VThornheartVThornheart Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    vhzod wrote: »
    I'm reading the shadowrun 4 book. Apparently combat goes like this.
    1. Roll Initiative (Reaction + Intution + hits on a test using the Reaction +Intuition number as the # of dice)
    Highest goes first, some super speedy people can act in more than one Initative Pass
    2. Declare actions, 1 free action + 2 simple action or 1 complex action
    a. Free actions, can do one per phase any time after your action phase Ex: Run, Talk, Go Prone
    b. Simple Actions can do 2 per phase on your phase Ex: Reload Clip, Single Shot, Stand Up, Ready Gun, Throw
    c. Complex actions can do 1 per phase instead of simple actions on your phase Ex: Full Auto, Melee, Skill

    When you're trying to shoot someone you roll a number of dice based on your attributes and/or skills:
    Attacker rolls: Agility + Firearm Skill +/- Modifiers
    Defender rolls: Reaction +/- Modifiers
    Defender can go into Full Defense as a Complex action which means they roll: Reaction + Dodge skill +/-Mods
    If the attacker gets more net hits then they succesfully have shot someone
    Guns have a base DV (Damage Value) that indicates the number of damage boxes they do
    Each net success on the opposed shooting roll increases the DV by one
    Then the defender rolls Body + Armor Value (the attack can reduce armor value if it has Armor Piercing)
    Each success reduces the DV by 1 and if it gets to 0 or lower no damage is taken
    Note: If the DV of the shot is less than the Armor value after penetration the attack does Stun instead of Physical Damage

    There's a bunch of modifications on number of dice rolled based on the conditions and attackers but thats the basics
    Shadowrun is complimicated and this is STREAMLINED 4th edition, 3rd had varying thresholds on the rolls

    Yuck. I guess it'd be nice to have that all pre-made into a game engine though... hell, we could start by making a rules layer for the game, and then plug it into the rougelike game AND a GUI utility that players could use to avoid having to calculate all this crap. =)

    VThornheart on
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  • vhzodvhzod Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Once you have that pill down its not as bad. Everything is handled by either opposed, unopposed, or extended unopposed tests. You just have to know what stats to plug in. Like for melee its

    Attacker rolls: Agility + Unarmed Skill +/- Mods
    Defender rolls: Reaction + Dodge (dodge) or Unarmed Skill (block) or Weapon Skill (parry)
    and the DV is determined by Strength + a bit from the weapon (ex Club DV: STR/2 +1)
    and you look at the Impact armor value instead of ballistic
    I think you resist stun damage with willpower instead of body maybe

    The matrix is handled the same except that the cyberdeck attributes replace your attributes and you have programs instead of skills

    and as for magic you don't have spell slots or mana you take resistable stun damage (drain) when you cast a spell/summon a spirit which can become physical damage if you take too much of it

    edit actually matrix combat is done by Cybercombat skill (or program rating for a program) + attack program rating and the DV is based on the attack program's rating
    defender rolls Response + Stealth (or Firewall if its a program) which I assume are computer hardware/cyberdeck attributes
    then damage resistance is done with System + Armor program rating

    vhzod on
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