"This is something the captain has to do on his own."
"No, it isn't!"
I must have missed the part where Mal was Early.
My point is that, with that line, Whedon proves that he doesn't hold action genre conventions in high esteem, a fact which makes the possibility that he would utilize one such convention in the character of Early highly suspect.
I mean, your entire argument is, "Other shows and works of fiction behave this way, so Firefly must behave this way as well." Firefly defies norms, though, so the argument is bunk.
No, my entire argument is "here is firefly doing something that other works of fiction have done before". You're not even listening.
No, my entire argument is "here is firefly doing something that other works of fiction have done before". You're not even listening.
Regardless of how you put it, I'm still saying that it's unlikely that that's the case because Joss only incorporates cliches such as that (the ones that add nothing to the story, and exist only to establish that a character is much of a badass as every badass beforehand who acted the same way) into his stories to mock them.
You, on the other hand, are rejecting my notion on the grounds that Firefly would imitate works that, on several occasions, the program has gone out of its way to mock.
So I'm confused, are we discounting the idea that Early had files on these people and thus knew that Book was a former op in favor of the dueling extremes of "never seen him before" or "they were bestest buds in operative school"?
What the hell is the discussion about, anymore?
ElJeffe on
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Granted I haven't watched the episode in a while, but is there any reason to believe that Early hadn't simply researched Serenity's crew beforehand?
Considering that he was inspired by Boba Fett, I'd say that it would be extremely likely that he would research his targets before blindly storming unto their ship. Probably through illegally snooping around in government files or through underworld connections. I don't know, just seems almost SOP for a bounty hunter before a big hit.
El Jeffe: Who knows what it's about anymore, I'm just trying to run with it.
Am I the only person who noticed that he was listening while he was hiding behind Serenity in his ship?
It's been forever since I saw the episode, like I said. So, I had forgotten personally.
So yeah, sure, doing some last minute recon work before he made his move, making sure all the data he gathered was current (ie, the people who he though was on the ship are still on it and there are no new crew members etc.) and obviously to wait and listen for the correct moment to strike.
That just seems in my mind to further indicate that he would be the type to do his homework before a mission.
Am I the only person who noticed that he was listening while he was hiding behind Serenity in his ship?
I had forgotten about that. It's simple then: Early just heard Book's nightly prayers.
Book: "Dear God, please forgive me for all that stuff I did when I was an Operative - especially all those sneaky bounty hunters I completely beat the crap out of. Thanks, good night."
No, my entire argument is "here is firefly doing something that other works of fiction have done before". You're not even listening.
You, on the other hand, are rejecting my notion on the grounds that Firefly would imitate works that, on several occasions, the program has gone out of its way to mock.
No, once again, I'm rejecting your notion on the grounds that Firefly does, very frequently, make use of literary-conventions common to the action, drama and western genres. And not always to make fun of them. Your explanation requires more information than is given, mine does not. For your explanation to be the correct one requires that the crew of Firefly not be very good at their craft.
Am I the only person who noticed that he was listening while he was hiding behind Serenity in his ship?
It's been forever since I saw the episode, like I said. So, I had forgotten personally.
So yeah, sure, doing some last minute recon work before he made his move, making sure all the data he gathered was current (ie, the people who he though was on the ship are still on it and there are no new crew members etc.) and obviously to wait and listen for the correct moment to strike.
That just seems in my mind to further indicate that he would be the type to do his homework before a mission.
There's no homework to do on Operatives though. They don't exist. Hence taking on the role of shepherd when they retire, because it makes their lack of paper-trail inconspicuous.
I mean shit, look at Book. "Wandering preacher who we quickly discover most definitely had a much more interesting job before he became a wandering preacher", you've never seen that before? Like a thousand times?
Well Early doesn't have to know that Book is an Operative to make the statement "That's no preacher" or whatever. He just have to believe that Book isn't a preacher, nothing more specific than that. Simple rumors of his exploits could be enough for that.
Once again, been a while since I've watched the show, but does he say "That's no preacher" to anyone or just to himself? If it's someone else he might just be trying to sow some paranoia and play on their fears. I think everyone on the crew suspects Book of being something more than he says he is, so maybe he's just trying to use that, somehow.
Inquisitor on
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That is the actual given explanation by Joss Whedon and therefore is as close to objectively correct as you can really get.
In the DVD commentary Firefly, Whedon states this is due to Early's intuition and ability to quickly size people up. He also comments that Early's methods for dealing with each crew member are custom-tailored to their personalities. Early disposes of Mal in a straight-forward manner; Joss then notes that Early's method for taking out Book is equally straight-forward, alluding to a similarity between the two otherwise different characters.
It's not quite the same. Early doesn't recognize Book because killers know killers, but rather because Early is capable of sizing up anyone.
But the question is whether or not the artist has a responsibility to not unwittingly play into race and gender issues. My answer is that he or she does not have said responsibility.
Omnipresent racism and misogyny, whether intentional or not, have a pernicious effect on society. Of course you're responsible for minimizing the extent to which your behavior contributes to that.
That is the actual given explanation by Joss Whedon and therefore is as close to objectively correct as you can really get.
In the DVD commentary Firefly, Whedon states this is due to Early's intuition and ability to quickly size people up. He also comments that Early's methods for dealing with each crew member are custom-tailored to their personalities. Early disposes of Mal in a straight-forward manner; Joss then notes that Early's method for taking out Book is equally straight-forward, alluding to a similarity between the two otherwise different characters.
It's not quite the same. Early doesn't recognize Book because killers know killers, but rather because Early is capable of sizing up anyone.
Thank you for giving me the final nudge I needed to lock this trainwreck.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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QED, Early can do everything and anything he pleases. :P
And the Browncoats were inspired by the Confederacy, but that doesn't mean they're in favor of slavery.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
The face with the tongue sticking out was there to signify that I was joking and trying to lighten the mood.
No, my entire argument is "here is firefly doing something that other works of fiction have done before". You're not even listening.
Sorry, my mistake.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Regardless of how you put it, I'm still saying that it's unlikely that that's the case because Joss only incorporates cliches such as that (the ones that add nothing to the story, and exist only to establish that a character is much of a badass as every badass beforehand who acted the same way) into his stories to mock them.
You, on the other hand, are rejecting my notion on the grounds that Firefly would imitate works that, on several occasions, the program has gone out of its way to mock.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
What the hell is the discussion about, anymore?
Considering that he was inspired by Boba Fett, I'd say that it would be extremely likely that he would research his targets before blindly storming unto their ship. Probably through illegally snooping around in government files or through underworld connections. I don't know, just seems almost SOP for a bounty hunter before a big hit.
El Jeffe: Who knows what it's about anymore, I'm just trying to run with it.
It's been forever since I saw the episode, like I said. So, I had forgotten personally.
So yeah, sure, doing some last minute recon work before he made his move, making sure all the data he gathered was current (ie, the people who he though was on the ship are still on it and there are no new crew members etc.) and obviously to wait and listen for the correct moment to strike.
That just seems in my mind to further indicate that he would be the type to do his homework before a mission.
I had forgotten about that. It's simple then: Early just heard Book's nightly prayers.
Book: "Dear God, please forgive me for all that stuff I did when I was an Operative - especially all those sneaky bounty hunters I completely beat the crap out of. Thanks, good night."
Mystery solved.
No, once again, I'm rejecting your notion on the grounds that Firefly does, very frequently, make use of literary-conventions common to the action, drama and western genres. And not always to make fun of them. Your explanation requires more information than is given, mine does not. For your explanation to be the correct one requires that the crew of Firefly not be very good at their craft.
There's no homework to do on Operatives though. They don't exist. Hence taking on the role of shepherd when they retire, because it makes their lack of paper-trail inconspicuous.
Once again, been a while since I've watched the show, but does he say "That's no preacher" to anyone or just to himself? If it's someone else he might just be trying to sow some paranoia and play on their fears. I think everyone on the crew suspects Book of being something more than he says he is, so maybe he's just trying to use that, somehow.
He says it to Simon after Simon admonishes him for beating up a shepherd.
Also, Book wasn't his real name, but rather the name of a man he had killed.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
That would be the "deus ex badass" convention VC was talking about
It's not quite the same. Early doesn't recognize Book because killers know killers, but rather because Early is capable of sizing up anyone.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Omnipresent racism and misogyny, whether intentional or not, have a pernicious effect on society. Of course you're responsible for minimizing the extent to which your behavior contributes to that.
Thank you for giving me the final nudge I needed to lock this trainwreck.