Let's also not forget the consequences of a widespread Western Olympic boycott. Without the US and Germany around China will dominate the medal count, challenged only by the Russians. They will stomp all over the Ugandans and Vietnamese and Jamaicans, and the Olympics will become a source of national pride in China, not shame.
If you want to shame Hitler, send Jesse Owens to Berlin to humiliate him. Don't boycott. If Owens had boycotted, German Lutz Long would have won the gold in the long jump. Though Long was no Nazi, it would have created a massive propaganda victory for the "master race."
If you want to shame a segregationist Alabama, send Sam Cunningham to Tuscaloosa to humiliate them. Don't boycott. If USC had boycotted, people would have still held onto notions about blacks being inferior athletes. Cunningham's performance led to Bear Bryant integrating SEC Football the following year, playing a big part in combating racism in the football-obsessed South.
If you want to shame China, don't run from them. Beat them. If you run and let China dominate the Olympics, it will become a propaganda victory for them inside China. Just as it was for the USSR in 1980 and the US in 1984.
I realize that people are stupid, but the idea of shaming an increasingly powerful nation that owns a huge amount of our debt by throwing a super heavy frisbee really far...
I realize that people are stupid, but the idea of shaming an increasingly powerful nation that owns a huge amount of our debt by throwing a super heavy frisbee really far...
Maybe we don't spin things that hard here, but over there? Sure.
If I remember the last Olympics correctly medal winning does raise hackles with some people. There was some ire last time over America constantly winning a lot of the medals.
Shryke: you mean in Australia? He basically was shunned by the national track team and never got to compete again. Carlos and Smith were attacked from all sides and faced more than a few death threats.
No, I mean what'd they do to "deserve" the attacks.
what you see them doing in the picture
Holding up your hand is bad now?
Black Power salute during the civil rights era.
How can you not have known that? Hell, forget history classse, have you watched Forrest Gump?
No. And Canadian. Black Power wasn't that big a deal up here.
If I remember the last Olympics correctly medal winning does raise hackles with some people. There was some ire last time over America constantly winning a lot of the medals.
Our losing in Basketball to Puerto Rico was a big deal as well. Some of the other nations started crackin' wise about our mamma.
But otherwise, yes, some totalitarian regimes do have propaganda departments, and winning a gold medal helps make their job easier.
I realize that people are stupid, but the idea of shaming an increasingly powerful nation that owns a huge amount of our debt by throwing a super heavy frisbee really far...
It's not the US where athletes are sponsored by Nike and McDonald's. 99% of the Chinese athletes that will be competing in the Olympics are products of the state. They were raised in state-funded schools and camps, trained in state-run gyms by state-employed coaches. Yao Ming needed permission from the government to play in the NBA.
Chinese athletes are no less a product of the government than a Chinese soldier.
BubbaT on
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GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular
I realize that people are stupid, but the idea of shaming an increasingly powerful nation that owns a huge amount of our debt by throwing a super heavy frisbee really far...
It's not the US where athletes are sponsored by Nike and McDonald's. 99% of the Chinese athletes that will be competing in the Olympics are products of the state. They were raised in state-funded schools and camps, trained in state-run gyms by state-employed coaches. Yao Ming needed permission from the government to play in the NBA.
Chinese athletes are no less a product of the government than a Chinese soldier.
Yao Ming needed permission from the government to play in the NBA.
Chinese athletes are no less a product of the government than a Chinese soldier.
And God help you if you're famous/skilled enough to get labeled a "living national treasure". Being checked on all the time like being on parole. Having to file assloads of paperwork to go out of province/state.
haha nice, changing torch routes, all confusing people and stuff
man i'd hate to work in the city right about now and have to wade through protesters scrambling to find that torch just to commute home
Haha it really wasn't like that at all. I'm almost positive the torch never even made a public appearance until perhaps the very very end at the Bridge, or perhaps at the Ballpark opening ceremony. Other than that, it was driven around most of the place while all of the protesters stayed on the Embarcadero. :x
haha nice, changing torch routes, all confusing people and stuff
man i'd hate to work in the city right about now and have to wade through protesters scrambling to find that torch just to commute home
Haha it really wasn't like that at all. I'm almost positive the torch never even made a public appearance until perhaps the very very end at the Bridge, or perhaps at the Ballpark opening ceremony. Other than that, it was driven around most of the place while all of the protesters stayed on the Embarcadero. :x
according to this, they moved the entire embarcadero leg to van ness and was run around over there
Yeah I just read the article from the SF Gate about it. It was pertty much hidden from the ballpark to the foot of Van Ness, then they relayed it up the street and to the bridge, which is cool if you happened to be along that route in your day-to-day routine.
But as for the people who showed up where they said it would be in order to enjoy the event, such as myself, it's a bummer they played such bait-and-switch game.
I can't help but feel like, what's the point of the relay at this point?
i dunno, i think this was the best compromise that pisses everyone off. No one got hurt (though admittedly it does take time for these reports to come out), no one got their first amendment rights trampled, the protestors got their publicity, and the IOC got fun press photos of runners and the flame. Sure, China didn't get the crowds lined up on all sides cheering on the runner and the few disruptively minded protestors didn't get the opportunity to douse the flame, but the original plan going through without incident was unlikely at best. I think the mayor made the right decision to divert. But yeah, kinda sucks for people who just wanted to see the flame
I'm terribly disappointed in the protesters. I have a dear friend in SLC who is a pretty serious activist for human rights in Darfur, and I think she goes about it in all the right ways. She's organized protests and fundraisers before, but more importantly she's always directing people to contact their representatives.
I know a lot of people are against the Olympics in Beijing because of Darfur and Tibet, and while both causes are ones I am for, I think holding the Olympics in Beijing is the best thing for these two causes. It brings attention to them on a global scale, and that's just what's needed right now. However, I can't help but feel like some people are losing sight of Darfur and Tibet in favor of just plain stopping the Olympics.
I don't know if I've lived in SF long enough to see the futility in protests or I've just grown tired of them, but after the official word that the closing ceremony had been scrubbed came down, the idiot on the bullhorn cheered "We won! Congratulations on a successful demonstration!"
Won? What the fuck did they win? Biggest Spoil Sport of the Day? There was so much tension and animosity today and I saw a lot of behavior that disgusted me. The biggest offense was that it seemed to me a good number of the protesters couldn't separate a county's people from it's government in their minds. A group of Chinese Dragon dancer who were set to do some stuff scuffled with some protesters and eventually the Dancers were advised to leave by the SFPD. These dancers were part of the damn ceremony. Shit, they were young men that looked younger than me and I'm only 26.
As they were led away with a police escort, protesters for Darfur lined up on the side of them and were just hurling hostilities at them. This one guy was just losing his shit, holding a sign shouting "Look at me! Look at me!" as he yelled at them. There was no mistaking that his actions made it seem he felt these kids were personally responsible for Tibet and Darfur. But you know, these dancers--along with scores of others there--were taking pride in their heritage, in their ethnicity and trying to celebrate Olympic spirit.
I can understand if you want to get your message across by protesting, but the hostilities were downright damning. You can argue about state sponsored athletes all you'd like, but these were people embracing their heritage. I witnessed an older lady, say 60's, 70's, tell a Chinese mother and daughter who both held Chinese flags that she thought it was adorable the woman was raising a little communist. I'm not even shitting you, she then bent down and looked directly at the little girl and said something to th effect of her being a cute little communist. Then the old lady beat-feet.
This little girl was like 3 years old. You tell me how the fuck she has anything to do with crimes against human rights. Her mother didn't have her dressed in a "God Hates Fags" tshirt, she was just waiving the flag of her ethnicity. What made me sad about it was that afterward the mother took the flag from her and held onto it. To me it was ridiculous to see that a country's people were not being separated from their government. It would be like someone personally blaming a 3 year old child for the war in Iraq. I'm half German, so it would be like someone blaming me for WWII. Hell, the other half of me is English, and you know how well our two countries got along in the beginning... but there's a reason I'm not blamed for either of those, and the biggest one is that I didn't have a role in either--much like the majority of the people there in support of China.
I saw some ugly stuff today. When I finally decided to leave I didn't get far before seeing some guy absolutely losing his shit on some Chinese people with "Olympic Spirit" banners. He was all purple faces and crazy eyed and he ran towards this old lady shouting "FREE TIBET" over and over. I was like "Whoah, hang on!" and turned him back. Almost instantly a guy from the "opposing" side ran up to him and they started shouting full force, and that's when I caught a protest sign to the face as I dove in the middle of them and separated the two.
I walked the Free Tibet guy away and told him he needed to calm down. I said that being violent like that completely undermines the message he's trying to deliver by protesting in the first place. He agreed he was over reacting and needed to just go home for the day, and we split, only for me to pull him away from another person like 30 yards away. I said "Dude, you are too emotionally invested in this right now and should find a place to just relax for a bit. Go have a drink, hell I'll *buy* you a drink, just go relax." That's what I don't get. In London and in Paris and here in SF if they hadn't bamboozled everyone, the protests are turning violent and completely negating the message. Hell, I saw scores of pictures and signs that said "CHINA: Listen to the Dalai Lama", yet the hostility and animosity I witnessed was the very antithesis of listening to him.
Meanwhile my head hurt like a bitch for the rest of the day.
So yeah, the protest leaders cheered over a victory today, but I'm still left trying to figure out what it was a victory over.
It's not even that, it struck me more as sort of a "vogue" thing to do. I'm beginning to feel more and more like protests are wasted energy. My friend from SLC whom I mentioned before, she organizes demonstrations that urge people to contact their Congress Representative and lay into *them* with all of this energy. I think that is time and effort expelled in the right direction.
China learned long ago that it would never successfully best the USA in a military bout, so they took and even wiser approach and have become a super power by attacking us economically. So secure are they in that position now that a bunch of sign bearing students aren't going to change things, and it's not because they are powerless or because they have no voice, it's because in this case to make a difference it would take a strong commitment to boycott Chinese made products.
An organized boycott would have been much more effect than any of these hostile protests have been.
So yeah, the protest leaders cheered over a victory today, but I'm still left trying to figure out what it was a victory over.
Sanity.
They're completely misguided. This is why I joined the Green Party for the policy over the people. The people are dicksmacks who have no idea what the fuck they're doing. They hear some far-flung cause- "Free Tibet" is a popular one- and then try and run roughshod over everyone, randomly squawking like parrots until they get what they want. They have no idea HOW to get what they want; they feel that it should simply be. They know Tibet should be free, but they think that all they need to do to make Tibet free is to make complete spectacles of themselves on the evening news until China has an epiphany. They're not going to have an epiphany. And when people see guys running around screaming Free Tibet and trying to douse the Olympic Torch, nobody else is going to have an epiphany either. At least, not unless you count "Man, I never realized just how crazy those hippies can be."
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
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HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
Shryke: you mean in Australia? He basically was shunned by the national track team and never got to compete again. Carlos and Smith were attacked from all sides and faced more than a few death threats.
No, I mean what'd they do to "deserve" the attacks.
what you see them doing in the picture
Holding up your hand is bad now?
Black Power salute during the civil rights era.
How can you not have known that? Hell, forget history classse, have you watched Forrest Gump?
No. And Canadian. Black Power wasn't that big a deal up here.
Due to rapidly deteriorating race relations in the U.S., black athletes were encouraged to boycott the '68 games. Americans Tommie Smith and John Carlos went to the games anyway and took gold and bronze, respectively, in the 200 meter dash. When the national anthem played at the medal ceremony, they kicked off their shoes, each put on one black glove, and gave the black power salute throughout the playing of the anthem.
When "The Star-Spangled Banner" played, Smith and Carlos delivered the salute with heads bowed, a gesture which became front page news around the world. As they left the podium they were booed by the crowd.[5] Smith later said "If I win, I am American, not a black American. But if I did something bad, then they would say I am a Negro. We are black and we are proud of being black. Black America will understand what we did tonight."
“It doesn’t appear that we’ve learnt anything,” Carlos said. “Forty years have passed and we’re back in the same situation.” Carlos encouraged athletes to follow his example and “go with their hearts and minds” if they wanted to make statements about human rights.
Smith, however, gave warning that athletes who crossed IOC laws and used the Games as a political platform would be forced to make “sacrifices”. The sacrifices Smith and Carlos made were huge. On the medal podium after the 200m final, their raised, gloved fists representing black unity and strength formed a statement of such power and eloquence that the repercussions shaped their entire lives.
After the medal ceremony, the IOC insisted that they be expelled from the Games and banned from further competitions. The white America to which they returned home vilified them; backs would turn on them when they looked for work, and their families suffered too. Smith’s mother died of a heart attack in 1970 when local farmers sent her manure and dead rats in the post. Carlos was reduced to chopping up his furniture for firewood. He says that his wife committed suicide because life as an outcast was so insufferable.
[..]
Smith said: “This is probably the most political Games in the history of the Olympics. We need to know why the IOC brought the Olympics to a country with a one-party system. Don’t pretend that money had nothing to do with it. But the IOC has responsibilities. This was a decision that needed more thought.”
“It doesn’t appear that we’ve learnt anything,†Carlos said. “Forty years have passed and we’re back in the same situation.†Carlos encouraged athletes to follow his example and “go with their hearts and minds†if they wanted to make statements about human rights.
Smith, however, gave warning that athletes who crossed IOC laws and used the Games as a political platform would be forced to make “sacrificesâ€. The sacrifices Smith and Carlos made were huge. On the medal podium after the 200m final, their raised, gloved fists representing black unity and strength formed a statement of such power and eloquence that the repercussions shaped their entire lives.
After the medal ceremony, the IOC insisted that they be expelled from the Games and banned from further competitions. The white America to which they returned home vilified them; backs would turn on them when they looked for work, and their families suffered too. Smith’s mother died of a heart attack in 1970 when local farmers sent her manure and dead rats in the post. Carlos was reduced to chopping up his furniture for firewood. He says that his wife committed suicide because life as an outcast was so insufferable.
[..]
Smith said: “This is probably the most political Games in the history of the Olympics. We need to know why the IOC brought the Olympics to a country with a one-party system. Don’t pretend that money had nothing to do with it. But the IOC has responsibilities. This was a decision that needed more thought.â€
B, the absence of the United States from China's Games is extremely unlikely to make China go "Hey, maybe we should improve our human rights record and maybe this won't happen anymore." They are more likely to go "Oh, you want to ruin our moment in the spotlight? Okay, great. Hey, you know that huge debt you owe us? We're calling it in."
B, the absence of the United States from China's Games is extremely unlikely to make China go "Hey, maybe we should improve our human rights record and maybe this won't happen anymore." They are more likely to go "Oh, you want to ruin our moment in the spotlight? Okay, great. Hey, you know that huge debt you owe us? We're calling it in."
China holds <5% of our debt.
A, is that external debt or overall, because, big difference.
B, <5% of a really big honkin' number.
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
It's probably prolonged exposure to this Smarch weather getting to him.
I'm a GIRL.
Female.
A woman.
A lady.
I have a vagina.
Stop calling me he, him, etc. Too much testosterone in these forums, where everyone presumes I'm a guy. And than once they find out I'm a girl they ask me to show them my tits. Stop that.
It's probably prolonged exposure to this Smarch weather getting to him.
I'm a GIRL.
Female.
A woman.
A lady.
I have a vagina.
Stop calling me he, him, etc. Too much testosterone in these forums, where everyone presumes I'm a guy. And than once they find out I'm a girl they ask me to show them my tits. Stop that.
Relax girl. Unless is this is like the fifth time you've had to correct someone, there's no need to fly off the handle. Around these parts the assumption that a poster is male is a pretty good one.
It's probably prolonged exposure to this Smarch weather getting to him.
I'm a GIRL.
Female.
A woman.
A lady.
I have a vagina.
Stop calling me he, him, etc. Too much testosterone in these forums, where everyone presumes I'm a guy. And than once they find out I'm a girl they ask me to show them my tits. Stop that.
Relax girl. Unless is this is like the fifth time you've had to correct someone, there's no need to fly off the handle. Around these parts the assumption that a poster is male is a pretty good one.
Sorry, I guess I kind of o_O But it does say 'princess' under my handle...
bychance on
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GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular
edited April 2008
bychance, it's the Internet. Normal Internet protocol holds that any given poster is male unless known otherwise. A title of 'warrior princess' means nothing. Man, I'm male and look at my avatar.
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
bychance, it's the Internet. Normal Internet protocol holds that any given poster is male unless known otherwise. A title of 'warrior princess' means nothing. Man, I'm male and look at my avatar.
Thats true. Though many guy's have women in their avatars, especially half naked ones. I didn't want to pick a girly username to make me too obvious. Than again, I sometimes use half naked women in my avatars too o_O
bychance on
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GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular
edited April 2008
Girly usernames are no longer a good indicator either. Just ask our flopsy bunny friend.
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
Sorry, I guess I kind of o_O But it does say 'princess' under my handle...
:oops: All I did was quoted the post at the top of this page, which quoted yours. So, no avatar, no title and since I don't tread the D&D waters regularly enough to be sympathetic to your ire, I didn't realize it was an issue. I don't generally assume anything about posters on PA, I simply used "he" in its generic sense.
Way to totally steal the thunder from my Smarch joke
B, the absence of the United States from China's Games is extremely unlikely to make China go "Hey, maybe we should improve our human rights record and maybe this won't happen anymore." They are more likely to go "Oh, you want to ruin our moment in the spotlight? Okay, great. Hey, you know that huge debt you owe us? We're calling it in."
China holds <5% of our debt.
A, is that external debt or overall, because, big difference.
B, <5% of a really big honkin' number.
Pretty sure it's external debt, as a vast majority of our debt overall is actually owed to the american people
Posts
If you want to shame Hitler, send Jesse Owens to Berlin to humiliate him. Don't boycott. If Owens had boycotted, German Lutz Long would have won the gold in the long jump. Though Long was no Nazi, it would have created a massive propaganda victory for the "master race."
If you want to shame a segregationist Alabama, send Sam Cunningham to Tuscaloosa to humiliate them. Don't boycott. If USC had boycotted, people would have still held onto notions about blacks being inferior athletes. Cunningham's performance led to Bear Bryant integrating SEC Football the following year, playing a big part in combating racism in the football-obsessed South.
If you want to shame China, don't run from them. Beat them. If you run and let China dominate the Olympics, it will become a propaganda victory for them inside China. Just as it was for the USSR in 1980 and the US in 1984.
Maybe we don't spin things that hard here, but over there? Sure.
No. And Canadian. Black Power wasn't that big a deal up here.
Our losing in Basketball to Puerto Rico was a big deal as well. Some of the other nations started crackin' wise about our mamma.
But otherwise, yes, some totalitarian regimes do have propaganda departments, and winning a gold medal helps make their job easier.
It's not the US where athletes are sponsored by Nike and McDonald's. 99% of the Chinese athletes that will be competing in the Olympics are products of the state. They were raised in state-funded schools and camps, trained in state-run gyms by state-employed coaches. Yao Ming needed permission from the government to play in the NBA.
Chinese athletes are no less a product of the government than a Chinese soldier.
man i'd hate to work in the city right about now and have to wade through protesters scrambling to find that torch just to commute home
In that case we should offer them political asylum. :P
And God help you if you're famous/skilled enough to get labeled a "living national treasure". Being checked on all the time like being on parole. Having to file assloads of paperwork to go out of province/state.
Haha it really wasn't like that at all. I'm almost positive the torch never even made a public appearance until perhaps the very very end at the Bridge, or perhaps at the Ballpark opening ceremony. Other than that, it was driven around most of the place while all of the protesters stayed on the Embarcadero. :x
according to this, they moved the entire embarcadero leg to van ness and was run around over there
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_8863724
and they have plenty of pictures of people running it around and stuff, so i don't think it was hidden the entire time
But as for the people who showed up where they said it would be in order to enjoy the event, such as myself, it's a bummer they played such bait-and-switch game.
I can't help but feel like, what's the point of the relay at this point?
I know a lot of people are against the Olympics in Beijing because of Darfur and Tibet, and while both causes are ones I am for, I think holding the Olympics in Beijing is the best thing for these two causes. It brings attention to them on a global scale, and that's just what's needed right now. However, I can't help but feel like some people are losing sight of Darfur and Tibet in favor of just plain stopping the Olympics.
I don't know if I've lived in SF long enough to see the futility in protests or I've just grown tired of them, but after the official word that the closing ceremony had been scrubbed came down, the idiot on the bullhorn cheered "We won! Congratulations on a successful demonstration!"
Won? What the fuck did they win? Biggest Spoil Sport of the Day? There was so much tension and animosity today and I saw a lot of behavior that disgusted me. The biggest offense was that it seemed to me a good number of the protesters couldn't separate a county's people from it's government in their minds. A group of Chinese Dragon dancer who were set to do some stuff scuffled with some protesters and eventually the Dancers were advised to leave by the SFPD. These dancers were part of the damn ceremony. Shit, they were young men that looked younger than me and I'm only 26.
As they were led away with a police escort, protesters for Darfur lined up on the side of them and were just hurling hostilities at them. This one guy was just losing his shit, holding a sign shouting "Look at me! Look at me!" as he yelled at them. There was no mistaking that his actions made it seem he felt these kids were personally responsible for Tibet and Darfur. But you know, these dancers--along with scores of others there--were taking pride in their heritage, in their ethnicity and trying to celebrate Olympic spirit.
I can understand if you want to get your message across by protesting, but the hostilities were downright damning. You can argue about state sponsored athletes all you'd like, but these were people embracing their heritage. I witnessed an older lady, say 60's, 70's, tell a Chinese mother and daughter who both held Chinese flags that she thought it was adorable the woman was raising a little communist. I'm not even shitting you, she then bent down and looked directly at the little girl and said something to th effect of her being a cute little communist. Then the old lady beat-feet.
This little girl was like 3 years old. You tell me how the fuck she has anything to do with crimes against human rights. Her mother didn't have her dressed in a "God Hates Fags" tshirt, she was just waiving the flag of her ethnicity. What made me sad about it was that afterward the mother took the flag from her and held onto it. To me it was ridiculous to see that a country's people were not being separated from their government. It would be like someone personally blaming a 3 year old child for the war in Iraq. I'm half German, so it would be like someone blaming me for WWII. Hell, the other half of me is English, and you know how well our two countries got along in the beginning... but there's a reason I'm not blamed for either of those, and the biggest one is that I didn't have a role in either--much like the majority of the people there in support of China.
I saw some ugly stuff today. When I finally decided to leave I didn't get far before seeing some guy absolutely losing his shit on some Chinese people with "Olympic Spirit" banners. He was all purple faces and crazy eyed and he ran towards this old lady shouting "FREE TIBET" over and over. I was like "Whoah, hang on!" and turned him back. Almost instantly a guy from the "opposing" side ran up to him and they started shouting full force, and that's when I caught a protest sign to the face as I dove in the middle of them and separated the two.
I walked the Free Tibet guy away and told him he needed to calm down. I said that being violent like that completely undermines the message he's trying to deliver by protesting in the first place. He agreed he was over reacting and needed to just go home for the day, and we split, only for me to pull him away from another person like 30 yards away. I said "Dude, you are too emotionally invested in this right now and should find a place to just relax for a bit. Go have a drink, hell I'll *buy* you a drink, just go relax." That's what I don't get. In London and in Paris and here in SF if they hadn't bamboozled everyone, the protests are turning violent and completely negating the message. Hell, I saw scores of pictures and signs that said "CHINA: Listen to the Dalai Lama", yet the hostility and animosity I witnessed was the very antithesis of listening to him.
Meanwhile my head hurt like a bitch for the rest of the day.
So yeah, the protest leaders cheered over a victory today, but I'm still left trying to figure out what it was a victory over.
A lot of people feel extremely powerless to affect change.
And unless they're fucking rich, they're probably correct in their assessment of where they stand.
I imagine it's extremely hard for a lot of people who realize that their opinion means nothing to anyone who matters to just take it calmly.
Protesting is often just about feeling good about yourself, because yeah, nobody gives a shit what you think, you're not rich or famous.
Because nothing else they do right now means anything, even though they will suffer 90% of the consequences.
You've heard that song, "Waiting for the world to change?"
Democracy+Increased Lifespan=Fucked Youth
China learned long ago that it would never successfully best the USA in a military bout, so they took and even wiser approach and have become a super power by attacking us economically. So secure are they in that position now that a bunch of sign bearing students aren't going to change things, and it's not because they are powerless or because they have no voice, it's because in this case to make a difference it would take a strong commitment to boycott Chinese made products.
An organized boycott would have been much more effect than any of these hostile protests have been.
If you even suggest boycotting products then idiots start freaking out at you for threatening their access to the products they love.
Seriously, any time I suggest voting with your wallet some jackass tries to convince me to give my money to assholes anyways.
They're completely misguided. This is why I joined the Green Party for the policy over the people. The people are dicksmacks who have no idea what the fuck they're doing. They hear some far-flung cause- "Free Tibet" is a popular one- and then try and run roughshod over everyone, randomly squawking like parrots until they get what they want. They have no idea HOW to get what they want; they feel that it should simply be. They know Tibet should be free, but they think that all they need to do to make Tibet free is to make complete spectacles of themselves on the evening news until China has an epiphany. They're not going to have an epiphany. And when people see guys running around screaming Free Tibet and trying to douse the Olympic Torch, nobody else is going to have an epiphany either. At least, not unless you count "Man, I never realized just how crazy those hippies can be."
Due to rapidly deteriorating race relations in the U.S., black athletes were encouraged to boycott the '68 games. Americans Tommie Smith and John Carlos went to the games anyway and took gold and bronze, respectively, in the 200 meter dash. When the national anthem played at the medal ceremony, they kicked off their shoes, each put on one black glove, and gave the black power salute throughout the playing of the anthem.
From the wiki page:
Accepting tends to leave their families back in China in a very awkward position.
This is why you leave some cyanide pills for them.
Holy Shit!!
Yes, thats all I got out of that.
China holds <5% of our debt.
Why? It's a word; just an irregular one in American English.
Or have you perhaps leapt to the wrong conclusion? Maybe your brain-cells were burnt.
B, <5% of a really big honkin' number.
I'm a GIRL.
Female.
A woman.
A lady.
I have a vagina.
Stop calling me he, him, etc. Too much testosterone in these forums, where everyone presumes I'm a guy. And than once they find out I'm a girl they ask me to show them my tits. Stop that.
Relax girl. Unless is this is like the fifth time you've had to correct someone, there's no need to fly off the handle. Around these parts the assumption that a poster is male is a pretty good one.
Sorry, I guess I kind of o_O But it does say 'princess' under my handle...
Thats true. Though many guy's have women in their avatars, especially half naked ones. I didn't want to pick a girly username to make me too obvious. Than again, I sometimes use half naked women in my avatars too o_O
:oops: All I did was quoted the post at the top of this page, which quoted yours. So, no avatar, no title and since I don't tread the D&D waters regularly enough to be sympathetic to your ire, I didn't realize it was an issue. I don't generally assume anything about posters on PA, I simply used "he" in its generic sense.
Pretty sure it's external debt, as a vast majority of our debt overall is actually owed to the american people