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New Oklahoma Abortion Law: Going Too Far

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Posts

  • zeenyzeeny Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    That platform is scary. "We support total indoctrination for the youth and anybody who's slightly different better get the fuck out before we got them torches."

    Edit: Oh dear fucking god, I missed the ID & evolution part on first reading, have they already implemented that?

    zeeny on
  • Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2008
    The Ten Commandments should be posted in all public schools as a means of moral guidance along with our national motto “In God We Trust” and the Bill of Rights.

    Irony :whistle:

    Wonder_Hippie on
    Your sig was too tall. -Thanatos
    Feral wrote: »
    MikeMan wrote: »
    i'm just a loveologist
    love me some lovin'
    gonna study up on lovin'

    Ain't no problem you can't solve in loveology with a larger sample size.
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    The differences between fact and theory shall be included in instruction.
    There are sofa king we todded.

    Couscous on
  • TachTach Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I'll just say this. Fuck the Oklahoma Republican Party. I hope every one of them gets a 9-iron through the chest during the next tornado season.

    Tach on
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    What's with this Old Testament fetish anyway?

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    The traditional family unit, consisting of a (husband) man, (wife) woman and child(ren), is the foundation of our social structure. The Oklahoma Department of Educationand various Boards of Regents should uphold and teach this definition of traditional family at all levels of public and higher education.
    That completely ignores the roles of the grandparents, uncles, and other relatives in most traditional forms of families. The nuclear family only been prevalent relatively recently.

    Based on the party platform, I now assume that Oklahoma is filled with idiots.

    Couscous on
  • Curly_BraceCurly_Brace Prototype Mimiga VillageRegistered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Kagera wrote: »
    What's with this Old Testament fetish anyway?

    Lots of rape, murder, sexual slavery and incest. It's kinky stuff, really!

    Sorry I know off-topic. :P

    Re: Caelesto's comments.

    I have no idea if this is true or not, but is it illegal in some states to transport a minor (or a woman, period) across state lines so she can have an abortion? I wouldn't be too surprised if this was the case in states like OK.

    Curly_Brace on
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  • SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Kagera wrote: »
    What's with this Old Testament fetish anyway?

    I don't know.

    It's when the Jews were running around acting like Islamofacists.

    Speaker on
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  • FencingsaxFencingsax Who lives Who dies Who Guacamoles? Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Titmouse wrote: »
    The traditional family unit, consisting of a (husband) man, (wife) woman and child(ren), is the foundation of our social structure. The Oklahoma Department of Educationand various Boards of Regents should uphold and teach this definition of traditional family at all levels of public and higher education.
    That completely ignores the roles of the grandparents, uncles, and other relatives in most traditional forms of families. The nuclear family only been prevalent relatively recently.

    Based on the party platform, I now assume that Oklahoma is filled with idiots.
    It took you this long?

    Fencingsax on
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  • YarYar Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I'm having trouble trying to find a way to defend this one. That's pretty raunchy.

    Overall, I don't think the intent is to terrorize women. I think the intent is to make abortion illegal. But since the feds won't allow that, they are coming up with whatever "creative" laws they can to make abortion a total aberration of a process.

    Also it carries with the emotional pull for the heartland voters - "That's right missy, that there's a baby you're killing."

    Yar on
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Yar wrote: »
    I'm having trouble trying to find a way to defend this one. That's pretty raunchy.

    Overall, I don't think the intent is to terrorize women. I think the intent is to make abortion illegal. But since the feds won't allow that, they are coming up with whatever "creative" laws they can to make abortion a total aberration of a process.

    Also it carries with the emotional pull for the heartland voters - "That's right missy, that there's a baby you're killing."

    THIS is why I will never support any organization that donates to a group like Focus on the Family.

    THIS is why FOTF is a hate group.

    I even dare you to try and say FOTF isn't having an orgy over this.
    sorry but I had to get that out

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • ErandusErandus Registered User
    edited April 2008
    I find it amusing that out of the 19 points listed there, 8 - nearly half - are either directly or indirectly about homosexuality.

    That says something.

    On topic: Here's hoping that the first time they jam a plastic wand up the vajayjay of a recently raped woman so she can pay a couple hundred dollars for the ultrasound of the rape-baby she's about to abort, she sues the state's balls off and the Okla. Supreme Court dumps this insanity.

    Erandus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • YarYar Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I still loved that Chick-fil-A I had for lunch.

    Yar on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Erandus wrote: »
    I find it amusing that out of the 19 points listed there, 8 - nearly half - are either directly or indirectly about homosexuality.

    That says something.
    I selected those based on the criteria of "first things I found."

    You can read the whole platform if you want. There are a lot more awful things (many of them about homosexuality), but that isn't a representative, random sample or anything.

    Thanatos on
  • kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    We affirm the right of private associations to admit or deny membership based on what these associations‟ conscience dictates.

    ...
    . . .

    kildy on
  • Brian888Brian888 Registered User
    edited April 2008
    There's no way this law will stand after the courts are through with it. The government isn't allowed to force you to endure one medical procedure in order to obtain voluntarily another medical procedure, especially an invasive procedure like a vaginal ultrasound, no matter how much the government thinks it's in your best interest.

    Brian888 on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    kildy wrote: »
    We affirm the right of private associations to admit or deny membership based on what these associations‟ conscience dictates.

    ...
    . . .
    Yeah, I want to save that one for the next time someone argues that the Republicans don't go after the racist vote.

    Thanatos on
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    kildy wrote: »
    We affirm the right of private associations to admit or deny membership based on what these associations‟ conscience dictates.

    ...
    . . .

    Oh, there's the love of Jim Crow I couldn't find before.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2008
    Titmouse wrote: »
    Perform an obstetric ultrasound on the pregnant woman, using either a vaginal transducer or an abdominal transducer, whichever would display the embryo or fetus more clearly
    What is the difference between them?

    Prior to a certain point in the fetus's development - I don't recall exactly, but I think it's around 16-20 weeks - an abdominal ultra sound (the kind where they rub the wand over the woman's belly) wouldn't show anything. The fetus is just too small to see. If the doctor needs to perform an ultrasound prior to this point, the transvaginal is the only choice.

    I don't recall if performing a transvaginal ultrasound is always necessary during a normal pregnancy. My wife has had them with both children, but that's because my wife's uterus is a dark and dreary place unfriendly to babies, and the doctor's kept close tabs on her both times. She had ultrasounds all the damned time, so I forget whether the first "normally" scheduled ultrasound was vaginal or abdominal.

    ElJeffe on
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  • Curly_BraceCurly_Brace Prototype Mimiga VillageRegistered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Erandus wrote: »
    I find it amusing that out of the 19 points listed there, 8 - nearly half - are either directly or indirectly about homosexuality.

    That says something.

    I've said it before (but maybe not on the forums here): Pretty much the gayest thing a man can do these days is be really anti-gay. Why yes I'm being silly but it's also sad-but-true in some cases. See: Sen. Larry Craig.

    And so this begs the question: what does being really anti-abortion mean? The answer, is suspect, is that you secretly hate babies. Why else make it so hard for infants and children to recieve proper health coverage? Okay yeah now I'm really being silly. Like I said before these politicans probably don't believe all this in their heart of hearts. They say and do these things to keep their jobs. But oh boy real bigot politicians are interesting.

    Curly_Brace on
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  • ErandusErandus Registered User
    edited April 2008
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Erandus wrote: »
    I find it amusing that out of the 19 points listed there, 8 - nearly half - are either directly or indirectly about homosexuality.

    That says something.
    I selected those based on the criteria of "first things I found."

    You can read the whole platform if you want. There are a lot more awful things (many of them about homosexuality), but that isn't a representative, random sample or anything.

    Ah, that makes slightly more sense, but I'm sure the full list isn't much less stomach-turning.

    Erandus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ErandusErandus Registered User
    edited April 2008
    Brian888 wrote: »
    There's no way this law will stand after the courts are through with it. The government isn't allowed to force you to endure one medical procedure in order to obtain voluntarily another medical procedure, especially an invasive procedure like a vaginal ultrasound, no matter how much the government thinks it's in your best interest.

    Especially if you're the recent victim of traumatic rape or incest. And forced to pick up the bill for it.

    Erandus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • YarYar Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    For a low-risk healthy pregnancy, usually the first and sometimes the first two are hoo-hoo-inal and the rest abdominal.

    Yar on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2008
    Yar wrote: »
    For a low-risk healthy pregnancy, usually the first and sometimes the first two are hoo-hoo-inal and the rest abdominal.

    Ah, thank you.

    Point being, a transvaginal ultrasound is a mildly uncomfortable procedure, but it's not like being raped with a broomstick, or anything. It's a fairly standard procedure.

    I agree, though, that this law is horrible, and that forcing an unnecessary penetrative act on a recent rape victim is abhorrent.

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Crayon wrote: »
    Cloudman wrote: »
    It's Oklahoma. Nothing too surprising about this, unfortunately.

    Har har har, it's demn dat darn southies. Have you ever been to Oklahoma or have any basis to make such a wild claim? Or are you just speculating because it's the South, as per the usual memorandum around here?
    He said nothing about the South, and I personally don't consider OK to be part of it, but you're utterly delusional if you think this isn't par for the course. They only recently legalized tattooing, ffs.

    SithDrummer on
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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2008
    They only recently legalized tattooing, ffs.

    They legalized tattooing? Well, shit, our last defense against the Mark of the Beast has fallen.

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

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  • SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    They only recently legalized tattooing, ffs.

    They legalized tattooing? Well, shit, our last defense against the Mark of the Beast has fallen.
    What's that smell? Smells like... damnation.

    SithDrummer on
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  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    This is awful. It's using people's pre-programmed fondness for things that look like babies to try and trick someone into having a child they don't want. Manipulative and despicable.

    RandomEngy on
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  • templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    edited April 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Yar wrote: »
    For a low-risk healthy pregnancy, usually the first and sometimes the first two are hoo-hoo-inal and the rest abdominal.

    Point being, a transvaginal ultrasound is a mildly uncomfortable procedure, but it's not like being raped with a broomstick, or anything.
    Depending on the woman. Anything from vaginismus to fibromyalgia to just having a small...umm...aperture, can make it painful. Plus, there's also the trauma of being forcefully penetrated by the Oklahoma legislature after being the victim of rape.

    templewulf on
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  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Even if she hasn't been raped the very idea that someone can insert something in her without her being able to say no is an incredible violation of personal choice.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • TachTach Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Kagera wrote: »
    Even if she hasn't been raped the very idea that someone can insert something in her without her being able to say no is an incredible violation of personal choice.

    Guys, guys.

    We're missing the point that the legislature was trying to make. Hey- it's vouluntary. If she doesn't want 3 inches of lubed up baby poloroid shoved up her cooter, she doesn't need to, right? All it means is she can't have that nasty abortion. So, it's a win-win for everybody!

    Tach on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2008
    Kagera wrote: »
    Even if she hasn't been raped the very idea that someone can insert something in her without her being able to say no is an incredible violation of personal choice.

    Umm... she can say no. The doctors do not hunt her down, tie her to a rack, and cram a bunch of tools up her hoo-ha while she wails protest.

    And are you aware that performing an abortion in the first place generally requires a medical implement to be inserted through the vagina?

    If you are pregnant, your options are like this:

    - Choose an abortion, and have stuff crammed in your she-hole to get the kid out.

    - Choose to have the child, and have stuff crammed in your she-hole to make sure the kid's okay.

    I mean, once you have a kid in there, you don't really have an option the doesn't involve vaginal penetration by medical tools. The practice mandated by this law is awful enough without you hyberbolizing the shit out of it.

    ElJeffe on
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  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Get over yourself. Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Look, it isnt about the she hole and stuffing baby paloroid up vahooing, it's about forcing doctors to guilt trip patients into doing something the government want them to do (not have an abortion).

    'See this, this is the babies head. This is his heart beating. These are his little arms. Are you wiling to kill this child? Huh? Are you honestly positively sure you want to damn you soul in hell for your own selfish reason such as 'I was raped'? If you kill this child, it is your fault! YOUR FAULT! See these anti-abortion propaganda with all these mutilated babies?! THIS IS WHAT YOU WILL DO TO YOUR CHILD! This sin will forever be engrave in your soul if you choose to have an abortion. So if you wish to continue with this abortion, please sign the dotted lines'.

    Casually Hardcore on
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  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Anyone else think it's funny that in the past 3 pages alone the euphemisms she-hole, hoo-ha, hoo-hoo, aperture, and vajayjay have been used instead of the word vagina?

    MikeMcSomething on
  • seasleepyseasleepy Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Kagera wrote: »
    kildy wrote: »
    We affirm the right of private associations to admit or deny membership based on what these associations‟ conscience dictates.

    ...
    . . .

    Oh, there's the love of Jim Crow I couldn't find before.
    I think this is intended more along the lines of the Boy Scouts and the gays, but hey, if it has the side effect of keeping out brown people.... :whistle:

    seasleepy on
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  • SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Anyone else think it's funny that in the past 3 pages alone the euphemisms she-hole, hoo-ha, hoo-hoo, aperture, and vajayjay have been used instead of the word
    vagina
    ?
    Don't say that word!

    SithDrummer on
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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2008
    Look, it isnt about the she hole and stuffing baby paloroid up vahooing, it's about forcing doctors to guilt trip patients into doing something the government want them to do (not have an abortion).

    Yes, which I totally agree with. I just don't think we need to awful up a practice when it's already pretty fucked up.

    Hey, did you hear the legislation requires doctors to use the special spiked ultrasound wand? And every time a VW Beetle drives by, they have to yell "slug-bug!" and punch the fetus.

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

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  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    So, can we make Todd Lamb watch home videos (clockwork orange style) of every death row inmate before they are executed, including scenes of childhood?

    Because if their going to over ride the veto, I think it's only fair that he and his cronies volunteer for this.

    Evander on
  • Curly_BraceCurly_Brace Prototype Mimiga VillageRegistered User regular
    edited April 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Kagera wrote: »
    Even if she hasn't been raped the very idea that someone can insert something in her without her being able to say no is an incredible violation of personal choice.

    Umm... she can say no. The doctors do not hunt her down, tie her to a rack, and cram a bunch of tools up her hoo-ha while she wails protest.

    And are you aware that performing an abortion in the first place generally requires a medical implement to be inserted through the vagina?

    If you are pregnant, your options are like this:

    - Choose an abortion, and have stuff crammed in your she-hole to get the kid out.

    - Choose to have the child, and have stuff crammed in your she-hole to make sure the kid's okay.

    I mean, once you have a kid in there, you don't really have an option the doesn't involve vaginal penetration by medical tools. The practice mandated by this law is awful enough without you hyberbolizing the shit out of it.

    Actually there are non-invasive methods of abortion. The "abortion pill" being the most common. And the most graphic methods often touted by the anti-abortion activists do involve dilating the cervix and removing the fetus that way, by "stuff crammed up her she-hole" if you will. While most non-invasive methods must be taken early on in the pregnancy, they are hard to acquire now do to laws like this one. (Yes, this law created even tighter restrictions around the most popular and effective "abortion pill.")

    I'm not so angry about the discomfort caused by the ultrasound, but by the fact that even if a woman doesn't want one, she has to have it in order to have an abortion in OK. Sure she can leave the state and get an abortion elsewhere. Unless she's poor or her insurance coverage sucks. So some women have to choose between no abortion, an illegal abortion, or an unnecessary medical procedure that violated their body against their will, and that they might have to pay for themselves. Which is a choice no one should have to make.

    And I actually feel bad for doctors who perform abortions. They're being treated like children, the State literally putting words in their mouth. The State has so respect for their code of moral ethics, nor patient-doctor confidentiality.

    But yeah we both agree, obviously, this law is wrong.

    I'm a big supporter of contraception over abortion, partly because it makes a lot of this controversy go away.

    Curly_Brace on
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  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Get over yourself. Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I'm a big supporter of contraception over abortion, partly because it makes a lot of this controversy go away.

    Oh please, lets not throw that shit into the fan.

    Casually Hardcore on
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