Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

New Bill Calls for Mandatory Video Game ID Checks

145679

Posts

  • HembotHembot Registered User
    edited May 2008
    Isn't this store policy at most if not all places anyway? I don't think it's a bad idea, just an unnecessary one.

    According to recent studies, 80% of stores visited by secret shoppers would not allow them to buy M-rated games. So yea, it's very, very unnecessary.

    http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2008/05/secretshop.shtm

    A lot of this will be market driven. Target and/or Wal-mart only sell radio edit versions of albums with "bad" language. Sure kids can go somewhere else but really only the 16-17 year olds will have a car to get everywhere they can to get the games. So in large I'd say the problem has taken care of itself. Is it a solid end-all to children buying M-rated games? No. But like I said, if I was a kid and the law was in effect I'd still be able to find a someone..a friend, a game ignorant aunt etc. to buy it for me.

    Question:
    Does this law prevent free give-aways? If the law was in effect, could Rockstar hold an online GTAIV give-away spree and not get fined? As far as I know, the restriction is somewhat new legal territory. I mean, a parent can buy the kid a game but he can't buy him a fifth of whiskey, porn, etc. Well maybe the porn because parents can let their kids watch rated R movies. All opinions aside, I'm unclear concerning the full extent of the law.

  • HembotHembot Registered User
    edited May 2008
    Roxtar wrote: »
    Well as an adult I can see the upside to this being that there will be less resistance to the types of games I want geared towards me. Legally though I dont know, I dont think children are really protected under free speech... It gets kinda gray there but in all honesty children dont really have FULL rights if I remember correctly, their parents take responsibility for alot of their rights. Either way whatever, meh.

    Kind of agree...kind of not. A lot of anti-game evangelicals will not see this as a victory but as one step closer to making our lives as boring and bland as they can make it. They will continue to try and censor games until everything is Hello-Kitty-The-Non-Pagan-Version-Because-Kitty-Is-Jesus's-Friend.

  • RoxtarRoxtar Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Hembot wrote: »
    Roxtar wrote: »
    Well as an adult I can see the upside to this being that there will be less resistance to the types of games I want geared towards me. Legally though I dont know, I dont think children are really protected under free speech... It gets kinda gray there but in all honesty children dont really have FULL rights if I remember correctly, their parents take responsibility for alot of their rights. Either way whatever, meh.

    Kind of agree...kind of not. A lot of anti-game evangelicals will not see this as a victory but as one step closer to making our lives as boring and bland as they can make it. They will continue to try and censor games until everything is Hello-Kitty-The-Non-Pagan-Version-Because-Kitty-Is-Jesus's-Friend.

    Yea that is the biggest drawback to it really from my standpoint at least. The way politics and censorship organizations go each little victory is a sort of stepping stone. I'm sure what will happen is the most middle range choice where it will be left up to the seller and then Bestbuy or whoever can decide what they want to do, but they will obviously be 'encouraged' to card... I'm sure this has been discussed to death in this 13 page thread but yea, whatever.

    But honestly as a parent and an adult I see nothing wrong with the carding aspect. I believe parents ultimately have the choice if they want their children to see adult content or not, whether it be in games, movies, or whatever (obviously porn is a big exception). I figure it saves me having to search my kids room for videogames I dont want him playing for whatever reason, if there are any when he gets to that age.

  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    It doesn't really matter one way or the other if they bundle the decision with rated movies and rated books and rated pictures and rated etc etc


    The problem normal people will have with this is that it treats video games in particular as a 'magic media' that can get to kids in a way that all other forms of media can't. This may be true to an extent, but its execution undermines the significant effect of these other forms of media.


    I don't understand why people are getting all red-beret about this; the precedents of media and communication restrictions have long been executed and upheld by all forms of US law. There isn't even a slippery slope here.


    Pragmatically, this bill should be supported; idealistically, it's debatable. Honestly, 99% of M-rated games are sold to little kids because of the sales pitch they give their parents in the game aisle. Most parents who buy their kids games aren't gamers themselves. You can hardly blame the parents in this case for living in a generation gap, because it's too much of a hassle to research the game while dealing with incessant whining and coaxing. This has nothing to do with the kids buying violent video games, but it is a source of embitterment in both camps.


    The midway solution is to make the employee at the register "ESRB certified," which means that the clerk knows enough about the game to tell the parent the true story. That should curb the anti-game sentiment enough so that this bill need not be passed (kids with naive, overgenerous parents vastly outnumber kids with enough money and pluck to buy and conceal a game for the duration of its use).

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • MarioGMarioG Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I think this is good. Alot of kids lie to their parents about games and store employees dont say shit and that pisses me off. That just disrespect. But sometimes its just ignorant parents who arent aware of what theyre kids are playing and again store employees dont say shit. And it pains and angers me to see 8 year old kids playing GTA. Its just awful. Everything has its time.

    Kay wrote:
    Mario, if Slenderman had a face, I would punch him in it.

    Hey, I have a blog! (Actually being updated again!)

    3DS: 0860-3240-2604
  • SolidNate86SolidNate86 Registered User
    edited May 2008
    I kinda wish things like this weren't just politicians jockying for votes.

    As a parent I fully support carding for games, it's just one less thing for these people who want to raise my kid for me to bitch about.

    Those people who spend so all thier time complaining on Capitol Hill about violent media instead of with thier children and come home to find that little Timmy shot up the school because mommy didn't love him enough.

    Learn how to raise your own children and stay the hell away from mine!

  • UltimaGeckoUltimaGecko Registered User
    edited May 2008
    First, a tangential point at best:
    OSUJumpMan wrote: »
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    This constitution of yours seems to be causing more problems than seems worthwhile. Why not get something new?

    This would result in a very bloody conflict.

    Not to mention that it's against the constitution.

    How ironic.

    actually i think the constitution says something along the lines of if the people don't like where the gov't takes the constitution they (the people) can rip it up and start again
    ...

    Viva la Revolution?

    "And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ?

    (that'd be Thomas Jefferson)

    Also, no, there's no stipulation for rebellion in the US constitution, it outlines the formation of governmental bodies and the legislative process. Even the US Bill of Rights as a composition of additions to that constitution (including the lauded First Amendment) has no expressed provision for rebellion, either.




    Second, since some people seem to still not realize this:

    The ESRB is a voluntary ratings board. The MPAA is a voluntary ratings board. Both R-ratings and M-ratings are voluntary - they are not controlled by the government, they are not demanded by the government, they are not required by the government.

    Retailers and service providers voluntarily enforce the ratings and voluntarily adhere to the system. Theatres do not need to check IDs for minors entering R-rated movies; stores do not need to check if you're an adult before purchasing music with 'explicit lyrics'. They do it through self-regulation.

    The facehuggers want to play with you in the AvP LP. Facehuggers also want you to check out the TF2 cards here. View the in-progress RE mansion recreation for L4D here.
    Bitstream wrote: »
    People respect a man who might do science at any moment.
  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I've been carded when I was younger at R movies. It does happen.

    Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Someone linked a study earlier that showed that age was checked more often at video game retailers than at theaters.

    "Despite all the bitching, if Diablo 3 sucks, I will eat my own cock. Counter-claim: If Diablo 3 does not suck, I will have a list of whiners who need to eat cocks." - Zen Vulgarity
  • Radikal_DreamerRadikal_Dreamer Registered User
    edited May 2008
    Bama wrote: »
    Someone linked a study earlier that showed that age was checked more often at video game retailers than at theaters.

    There's a study here. Basically gaming was once the easiest thing for children to get when they weren't 'supposed' to, but now it's the hardest. Personally, I've been carded for games since, well, forever, and I still do (and I'm 22). Hell, I just got carded when buying GTA IV, and I bought it with along with a 600 dollar HDTV on a credit card. Yeah, I'm totally under 17... Not that I really care. On the other hand, I have never once in my life been carded for anything else media-wise (R DVD, R Theatre ticket), even when I was underage.

    theincidentsig.jpg
  • Dread Pirate ArbuthnotDread Pirate Arbuthnot WRIGGLY OMG WRIGGLYRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I don't have any photo ID and I just turned seventeen, but I would support initatives like this. They may be annoying for me but that's okay, as long as we have a few less idiot 14 year olds bragging about 'shootin' up hookers'

    0wSr10c.png?1
  • BretzyBretzy Registered User
    edited May 2008
    BarneyL wrote: »
    Bursar wrote: »
    I am for the practice of businesses willingly instating ID-checking methods for what they feel to be restricted material. I am not in favor of the government mandating that such a practice be enforced.

    Stop me if I'm wrong but the reason why a law is being considered is because the games industry has failed to regulate itself and instead concentrated on selling violent games clearly designed for children *cough* manhunt *cough*.
    Seriously, I'm all for adult games and perhaps if adult games can only be sold to adults we'll start seeing adult violence as in Goodfellas in games rather than "adult" violence as in Itchy and Scratchy.


    I have to stop you and try to correct you if I can. Games like manhunt, GTA and any other violent games are not designed for children. The average gamer is age 32 or something to that effect. That means that games with an M rating are specifically made with those gamers in mind. That said, this legislation may be good for the industry in the long run. Having this passed into law, putting the onus on retailers to make sure that a buyer is of age, could open up the AO market and at the least will take the heat off of game makers and allow them to make their games the way they envision them. It will not make it illegal for children to play M rated games, it just means that their parent/guardian must be aware that the game is designed with older gamers in mind. As you can tell I am in favor of this, as it will not affect me at all being a 27 yr old gamer, because it will thin out the number of virulent kids who play online. Maybe we can live in a world where we don't have 12 year olds who sing/scream/high-pitch shit talk and all the other nonsense they bring to table playing online. Honestly, I want to live in that world.

    Even tho I seek perfection, I wear my scars with pride.
  • Greg USNGreg USN Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Greg USN wrote: »
    You have to show ID if you want to buy Smokes, Beer, ect...
    I also don't buy the Freedom of Speech argument. No one is saying there can't be M rated games, just that Kids can't buy them.

    They should be carding for games and R rated movies.

    Restricting who can hear speech IS restricting freedom of speech.

    If you're at a protest criticizing the government, and they take you and put you in a tiny little soundproof room and say "You're still free to say whatever you want" your free speech is still being restricted, because people who may want to hear your message can't hear it.

    The comparison to cigarettes and alcohol, made many times in this thread, is still absurd. Comparing a physical product that causes proven physical damage to a piece of art is ridiculous.

    I guess we should let 12 year olds buy porn then too?
    I would agree with you if the law was "throw the kids and parents of kids who have M rated games in jail" but its not. The parents have a chiose and if they are ok with their kids playing they can buy it for them. how is this any different then a parent blocking shows on the TV? It's not.

    FFXIV Petra Ironheart
    Clockwork Mog the smaller, quieter Penny-Arcade free company on Sargatanas. Recruiting 21 and older members. PM for details
    Join Raidcall 7779399 (open to all that want to chat!)
    https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/729901127059317/
  • AshendarkAshendark Registered User
    edited May 2008
    Greg USN wrote: »
    Greg USN wrote: »
    You have to show ID if you want to buy Smokes, Beer, ect...
    I also don't buy the Freedom of Speech argument. No one is saying there can't be M rated games, just that Kids can't buy them.

    They should be carding for games and R rated movies.

    Restricting who can hear speech IS restricting freedom of speech.

    If you're at a protest criticizing the government, and they take you and put you in a tiny little soundproof room and say "You're still free to say whatever you want" your free speech is still being restricted, because people who may want to hear your message can't hear it.

    The comparison to cigarettes and alcohol, made many times in this thread, is still absurd. Comparing a physical product that causes proven physical damage to a piece of art is ridiculous.

    I guess we should let 12 year olds buy porn then too?
    I would agree with you if the law was "throw the kids and parents of kids who have M rated games in jail" but its not. The parents have a chiose and if they are ok with their kids playing they can buy it for them. how is this any different then a parent blocking shows on the TV? It's not.


    Whats wrong with 12 year olds having porn? You know they're turning into masterbating machines at that age anyway.

    Ashendark.gif
  • KhavallKhavall Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Why is anyone using the "Letting 16 year olds buy video games is the same as letting 12 year olds buy porn" argument in here?

    Can we not see why they're not the same? Really?

  • UtsanomikoUtsanomiko Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I think there's been enough discussion on whether Mature games should be regulated as other mature media or as physically/developmentally harmful material.

    But what about the sale of Teen-rated games to children? Everybody has focused solely on the very highest levels of the self-regulated ratings systems, and not the lower ones which also have relevant guidance for appropriate content.

    If most retailers chose to card people under 18 for the sale of games rated by the ESRB as Mature, should they not also have the option to prevent children under 13 from purchasing Teen-rated games (whether they actually chose to do so would be up to the retailer)?

    If it's the governemnt's job to ensure minors aren't able to purchase M games anywhere without an adult, shouldn't the law also cover 12 year olds requiring an older accompaniment? Does the reasoning for purchase restrictions only cover the popularly-debated M rating, or should it not be fairly applied to the ESRB's Teen games as well?

    hmm.gif
  • DissociaterDissociater Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I was in an ebgames the other day and some kids came in and tried to trade in some games and buy an M rated game. The clerk asked how old they were, they said 14, and he basically told them to get lost. It was funny.

    steam_sig.png
  • MarioGMarioG Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I am 14 and i can buy M games because I am a frequent customer and the guy trsusts me. He knows my mom is cool with it.

    Kay wrote:
    Mario, if Slenderman had a face, I would punch him in it.

    Hey, I have a blog! (Actually being updated again!)

    3DS: 0860-3240-2604
  • OSUJumpManOSUJumpMan Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    thank you gecko for the correction, the more i thought about it, the more i realized it wasn't in the constitution specifically, but had been laid out by the founding fathers in other places.

    also, I don't think most people here are against carding for M-rated games. i think the issue is where the responsibility lies. as a parent, a gamer, and someone who was a manager at gamestop I personally have no issue with companies mandating IDs at the register. i DO have issue with the government forcing them to do so.

    camo_sig2.png
  • UtsanomikoUtsanomiko Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Well then there's the answer; we just need to install a system where trusting retailers can automatically know whether a minor's parents are cool or not cool with the purchase.

    I get carded all the time for M-rated games. I've been informed on occasion I was purchasing a mature game in case I was 'buying it for a minor'. I have heard of one person being prevented by a store from buying an M-rated game because he had a minor with him and 'might be buying it for the minor'.

    I can't recall ever being notified about R-rated DVDs.

    hmm.gif
  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Utsanomiko wrote: »
    Well then there's the answer; we just need to install a system where trusting retailers can automatically know whether a minor's parents are cool or not cool with the purchase.

    I get carded all the time for M-rated games. I've been informed on occasion I was purchasing a mature game in case I was 'buying it for a minor'. I have heard of one person being prevented by a store from buying an M-rated game because he had a minor with him and 'might be buying it for the minor'.

    I can't recall ever being notified about R-rated DVDs.

    Ok, see, this I don't agree with, though.

  • MarioGMarioG Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Utsanomiko wrote: »
    Well then there's the answer; we just need to install a system where trusting retailers can automatically know whether a minor's parents are cool or not cool with the purchase.

    Hey. I'm just telling it as it is man.

    Kay wrote:
    Mario, if Slenderman had a face, I would punch him in it.

    Hey, I have a blog! (Actually being updated again!)

    3DS: 0860-3240-2604
  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    RE the "cost" of free speech -

    It is not free to have your game rated by the ESRB.

    I've seen the cost of getting the ESRB to rate your game claimed to be at least $2500. This is not the creator charging the consumer for speech, this is the government charging the creator for the right to distribute speech. Who's to say the unrated Dwarf Fortress, or any other freeware, would ever have been released had creators been forced to fork over thousands of dollars?


    Secondly, the ESRB does not have anywhere close to the manpower needed to rate every single game distributed in the US. That doesn't include just Halo and Guitar Hero, it includes every Flash and Java game on the internet from the NY Times crossword to Yahoo Fantasy Football. Every game imported to the US from Japan or Europe. What Sony did to Lik-Sang is nothing compared to the hammer this bill would drop on Play Asia. And let's not forget ARGs - ESRB approval for websites too.

    There is simply no way the ESRB can fulfill its mandated duties under this bill, any more than the MPAA can rate the home movie collection of every American.


    Also, who is in favor of requiring all mods, skins, total conversions, and other user-created game materials that could possibly be accessed by minors to require ESRB/govt approval?


    Is it really that hard to see the chilling effect this would have on gaming?

    kaliyama wrote: »
    BubbaT wrote: »
    I'm curious how many people would support the institution of a government-enforced age check on material that features:

    Foul language
    Violence
    Sex
    Adult Themes


    The material?
    Penny Arcade

    Further, how many would be in favor of the government fining the distributors of PA $5000 for every minor who was able to access the comic?

    Um...you do have to be 13 to access the message board. It's just that the internet currently makes age verification difficult.

    13 is a minor in most states. And I'm talking about accessing the comic, not the forums.

  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Content purchased online requires a credit card. I've yet to see a lot of minors with one.

  • JihadJesusJihadJesus Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    This is an interesting but touchy thread. It seems like most of us recognize the importance of a parent's ability to restrict the content their children have access to regardless of the type of media that entails. Some of us are more nervous than others about the precedent on blanket restrictions on sales to minors - but all of us seem to agree that carding, if voluntary, is a very reasonable and desireable thing. Many of us are just nervous about the precedent, which is understandable. Freedom of speech is a very tricky thing in some ways, and one of the biggest problems is the definition of obscenity.

    I'm curious how this would be received from a constiutional standpoint if the determination of obscenity came from the parents rather than a blanket 'M games bad!' decree, say via an act that required active parental involvement in individual cases to determine obscenity standards for their own children. As a hypothetical example, let's say a federal law was passed requiring that all console makers included parental protection systems that allowed parents to lock out games by ESRB rating or, even better, specific elements of game content like those 'Extreme Violence', 'Sexual Themes', etc tags the ESRB uses to describe titles. The ultimate end is the same in that parents can control their children's access to content they consider objectionable for some reason (and in the more detailed case, to a fairly fine degree) but the federal regulation is done in such a way that it avoids the sticky issue of defining obscenity and leaves that power to an arena that I believe most would agree is appropriate.

    Now, some analogs to this kind of system exist already (I know the Wii has some kind of parental controls, and I'm sure it's not alone). What I'm curious about is whether or not this kind of system would be objectionable, especially to those who are arguing most fervently against this particular measure, if federally mandated for all new gaming consoles.

    Tired of getting reamed by Gamestop? Sign up for Goozex!
  • DigDug2000DigDug2000 Registered User
    edited May 2008
    I was thinking about this last night. It just seems retarded to me. The whole goal of this thing is made out to be protecting children from violence so that they themselves don't become violent criminals themselves. To be frank, I think that's gotta be bullshit. There's probably some extreme cases where 8 year olds were locked in a rooms full of bloody corpses and were stunted for life because of it, but when has playing GTA caused a 16 year old to become... evil? Any kid that is playing GTA and is evil was probably evil long before the game was released.

    In reality I think all of this shit is just part of a big push by the religious nuts of America to enforce their morals onto everyone in the nation. They don't think anyone should be allowed to drink or fuck or watch something with violence in it, but since they can't take that straight to Congress and get it signed (yay 1st ammendment!) they start off with small shit like this. Everyone goes, "If it will make you shut up, then fine." Same reason that I know several religious nuts who go downtown every week and pray that all the bars are shut down. They campaign for all these same types of things in the name of "public safety" and whatnot which seems great, but in the end their real goal is to push their ideals of whats right and wrong. They have zero concern for the actual well being of other people (beyond the "happiness that they would find if only they had Jesus as their Lord and Savior").

    Its all bullshit. Laws like this will not shut up the Jack Thompsons of the world. They won't make life substantially easier for parents. They won't make bad parents suddenly into good ones. They won't keep guns or murderers off the streets. All they'll do is put games on the long list of things that are already considered "obscene", and give people more leverage to use in banning them altogether (or at least banishing them off into that seedy corner shop you feel dirty walking into).

    And I know I'm coming across as paranoid and whatnot with this rant. I've probably gone way over the top in it. But I think its kinda sad how many people are willing to agree to it for no better reason than, "Maybe then they'd stop blaming games for violence."

  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Djiem wrote: »
    Content purchased online requires a credit card. I've yet to see a lot of minors with one.

    What about games/content that aren't purchased, but are free? What about mods that could insert M-rated content into a T-rated game?

    What about games purchased from outside the US, which don't carry an ESRB rating? How is Play Asia going to get all their Japanese games an ESRB rating?

  • DissociaterDissociater Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I think it's more of a form of self protection on the game company's part. They don't want some parent bitching at them and threatening a law suit because their precious snowflake was traumatically scarred from some violent video game and there was no warning on the packaging.

    steam_sig.png
  • AshendarkAshendark Registered User
    edited May 2008
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Djiem wrote: »
    Content purchased online requires a credit card. I've yet to see a lot of minors with one.

    What about games/content that aren't purchased, but are free? What about mods that could insert M-rated content into a T-rated game?

    What about games purchased from outside the US, which don't carry an ESRB rating? How is Play Asia going to get all their Japanese games an ESRB rating?

    Seeing as this bill would only effect US retailers and Japanese games are sold through non US retailers it shouldn't really effect the import market.

    Ashendark.gif
  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Ashendark wrote: »
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Djiem wrote: »
    Content purchased online requires a credit card. I've yet to see a lot of minors with one.

    What about games/content that aren't purchased, but are free? What about mods that could insert M-rated content into a T-rated game?

    What about games purchased from outside the US, which don't carry an ESRB rating? How is Play Asia going to get all their Japanese games an ESRB rating?

    Seeing as this bill would only effect US retailers and Japanese games are sold through non US retailers it shouldn't really effect the import market.

    Also, content PURCHASED outside the US still requires a credit card.

  • UtsanomikoUtsanomiko Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Djiem wrote: »
    Utsanomiko wrote: »
    Well then there's the answer; we just need to install a system where trusting retailers can automatically know whether a minor's parents are cool or not cool with the purchase.

    I get carded all the time for M-rated games. I've been informed on occasion I was purchasing a mature game in case I was 'buying it for a minor'. I have heard of one person being prevented by a store from buying an M-rated game because he had a minor with him and 'might be buying it for the minor'.

    I can't recall ever being notified about R-rated DVDs.

    Ok, see, this I don't agree with, though.


    It's a pretty lame and shoddy practice, for sure, I doubt it was an official ruling by the chain itself, and it really doesn't achieve the results they were intending.

    But it's the retailer's perjorative if they want to limit the sale of 'objectionable' material to minors to chose such a practice. Not the American federal government, unless it's outright objectively harmful, which it is not.

    hmm.gif
  • RocketSauceRocketSauce Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Seems like the only people who would inherently be against a law like this would be people under 18, whose parents do not want them playing M rated games -- i.e., people who don't really have a say in anything anyway.

    Also, hopefully this will help keep douchebag 12 year olds from playing GTAIV and COD4 on Live. Fuckin' A, enough of them already.

  • Greg USNGreg USN Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I am, politically very conservative (border line libertarian) and I really just don't see how this violates free speech. If anything people should be fired up over the console makers refusing to allow AO games. That is a case where expression is being limited, albiet by private groups.

    The only ways this would piss me off would be if:
    a) the bill restricted what type of content would be allowed in interactive digital mediums
    b) created a new office to regulate this or if it caused ANY tax burden
    c) required anything other then age verification

    I think in a perfect world, where parents could monitor anything/everything we wouldn't need regulations like this. However, we don't.

    FFXIV Petra Ironheart
    Clockwork Mog the smaller, quieter Penny-Arcade free company on Sargatanas. Recruiting 21 and older members. PM for details
    Join Raidcall 7779399 (open to all that want to chat!)
    https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/729901127059317/
  • RitchmeisterRitchmeister Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Seems like the only people who would inherently be against a law like this would be people under 18, whose parents do not want them playing M rated games -- i.e., people who don't really have a say in anything anyway.

    Also, hopefully this will help keep douchebag 12 year olds from playing GTAIV and COD4 on Live. Fuckin' A, enough of them already.

    Well this is already law in Britain and it hasn't so I'm afraid you're shit out of luck.

  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Guys, the issue with the bill isn't limiting the child, it is holdingthe RETAILER responsible.

    Video games are not a scientifically proven dangerous substance like alcohol or cigarettes. And any games containing pornographic material would fall under the same laws that ALREADY make it illegal to sell pornto minors.



    Why should some clerk lose his job becausefolks don't want to bother being a parent?

    georgersig.jpg
  • MonkeydryeMonkeydrye Registered User
    edited May 2008
    Ars Technical has a lovely chart that shows how often kids are able to get mature games VS being able to get R rated DVDs or go see R rated moves. Guess what? Less kids are able to get the games. By a LONG shot. yet we have no laws about carding for movies or buying DVD's.

    And, obviosuly it ain't necessary anyway since violent crime by kids has been going DOWN not up.

    http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080508-ftc-report-retailers-clamping-down-on-m-rated-game-sales.html

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Greg USNGreg USN Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Evander wrote: »
    Why should some clerk lose his job becausefolks don't want to bother being a parent?

    He wont if s/he takes 10 seconds to check an ID.

    FFXIV Petra Ironheart
    Clockwork Mog the smaller, quieter Penny-Arcade free company on Sargatanas. Recruiting 21 and older members. PM for details
    Join Raidcall 7779399 (open to all that want to chat!)
    https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/729901127059317/
  • RocketSauceRocketSauce Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Evander wrote: »
    Guys, the issue with the bill isn't limiting the child, it is holdingthe RETAILER responsible.

    Video games are not a scientifically proven dangerous substance like alcohol or cigarettes. And any games containing pornographic material would fall under the same laws that ALREADY make it illegal to sell pornto minors.



    Why should some clerk lose his job becausefolks don't want to bother being a parent?

    If you think it's okay to let a kid play M rated games, that's retarded. Holding a retailer responsible is one more step in making sure kids shouldn't be playing games that were not made for them.

  • MonkeydryeMonkeydrye Registered User
    edited May 2008
    Why is it the store's job to make sure you kid is being good?

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • RocketSauceRocketSauce Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Monkeydrye wrote: »
    Why is it the store's job to make sure you kid is being good?

    Because I said so, that's why. Now go to your room.

Sign In or Register to comment.