Dollhouse, New show by Joss Whedon

fightinfilipino · May 2008

shryke wrote: »

Josh does NOT like getting canceled.

you'd think he'd be used to it by now.

Balefuego · May 2008

who is Josh

Mai-Kero · May 2008

shryke wrote: »

ElJeffe wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

Everyone but Dawn and Giles were supposed to die at the end of S5 after all.

Wait, what?

The original plan for the end of S5 was the end of the series. (Remember, this is the last season on ... whatever the fuck network they were on at the time. The last 2 seasons were on UPN or something.)

Anyway, Joss's plan for the end was:

1) Glory kills Tara
2) Willow goes crazy and super powered (like at the end of S6) and kills Glory, then starts wrecking the place up
3) Buffy kills Willow to stop it
4) Spike dies trying to protect Dawn
5) Xander dies trying to protect Anya or reason with Willow, Anya buys it at some point too
6) Buffy sacrifices herself to stop the hole into hell from opening
7) The whole town gets fucked/destroyed (like in end of S7) and Giles escapes with Dawn

Something close to that as I remember it. I'll see if I can dig up the original.

Anyway, the other writers vetoed it, saying they COULD get picked up somewhere else, so the end of S5 was changed to something slightly less .... Apocalyptic. (It was supposed to be a kind of fuck you to the network or something) The Angel series Finale was the same sort of thing this was supposed to be. Joss does NOT like getting canceled.

Except the Angel series finale would have happened anyway if they could get the special effects budget to do season six on television.

SlickShughes · May 2008

Balefuego wrote: »

who is Josh

Josh == Joss

I named my cat Joss (Yes, I'm that big a nerd. My last cat was named Yoda) and people call him Josh all the time. The name just doesn't click in some people's heads.

shryke · May 2008

Mai-Kero wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

ElJeffe wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

Everyone but Dawn and Giles were supposed to die at the end of S5 after all.

Wait, what?

The original plan for the end of S5 was the end of the series. (Remember, this is the last season on ... whatever the fuck network they were on at the time. The last 2 seasons were on UPN or something.)

Anyway, Joss's plan for the end was:

1) Glory kills Tara
2) Willow goes crazy and super powered (like at the end of S6) and kills Glory, then starts wrecking the place up
3) Buffy kills Willow to stop it
4) Spike dies trying to protect Dawn
5) Xander dies trying to protect Anya or reason with Willow, Anya buys it at some point too
6) Buffy sacrifices herself to stop the hole into hell from opening
7) The whole town gets fucked/destroyed (like in end of S7) and Giles escapes with Dawn

Something close to that as I remember it. I'll see if I can dig up the original.

Anyway, the other writers vetoed it, saying they COULD get picked up somewhere else, so the end of S5 was changed to something slightly less .... Apocalyptic. (It was supposed to be a kind of fuck you to the network or something) The Angel series Finale was the same sort of thing this was supposed to be. Joss does NOT like getting canceled.

Except the Angel series finale would have happened anyway if they could get the special effects budget to do season six on television.

Well, it would have been slightly different. Wesley would have lived AFAIK. I think Gun would have survived it too.

Mai-Kero · May 2008

shryke wrote: »

Mai-Kero wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

ElJeffe wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

Everyone but Dawn and Giles were supposed to die at the end of S5 after all.

Wait, what?

The original plan for the end of S5 was the end of the series. (Remember, this is the last season on ... whatever the fuck network they were on at the time. The last 2 seasons were on UPN or something.)

Anyway, Joss's plan for the end was:

1) Glory kills Tara
2) Willow goes crazy and super powered (like at the end of S6) and kills Glory, then starts wrecking the place up
3) Buffy kills Willow to stop it
4) Spike dies trying to protect Dawn
5) Xander dies trying to protect Anya or reason with Willow, Anya buys it at some point too
6) Buffy sacrifices herself to stop the hole into hell from opening
7) The whole town gets fucked/destroyed (like in end of S7) and Giles escapes with Dawn

Something close to that as I remember it. I'll see if I can dig up the original.

Anyway, the other writers vetoed it, saying they COULD get picked up somewhere else, so the end of S5 was changed to something slightly less .... Apocalyptic. (It was supposed to be a kind of fuck you to the network or something) The Angel series Finale was the same sort of thing this was supposed to be. Joss does NOT like getting canceled.

Except the Angel series finale would have happened anyway if they could get the special effects budget to do season six on television.

Well, it would have been slightly different. Wesley would have lived AFAIK. I think Gun would have survived it too.

Spoiler:

shryke · May 2008

Mai-Kero wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

Mai-Kero wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

ElJeffe wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

Everyone but Dawn and Giles were supposed to die at the end of S5 after all.

Wait, what?

The original plan for the end of S5 was the end of the series. (Remember, this is the last season on ... whatever the fuck network they were on at the time. The last 2 seasons were on UPN or something.)

Anyway, Joss's plan for the end was:

1) Glory kills Tara
2) Willow goes crazy and super powered (like at the end of S6) and kills Glory, then starts wrecking the place up
3) Buffy kills Willow to stop it
4) Spike dies trying to protect Dawn
5) Xander dies trying to protect Anya or reason with Willow, Anya buys it at some point too
6) Buffy sacrifices herself to stop the hole into hell from opening
7) The whole town gets fucked/destroyed (like in end of S7) and Giles escapes with Dawn

Something close to that as I remember it. I'll see if I can dig up the original.

Anyway, the other writers vetoed it, saying they COULD get picked up somewhere else, so the end of S5 was changed to something slightly less .... Apocalyptic. (It was supposed to be a kind of fuck you to the network or something) The Angel series Finale was the same sort of thing this was supposed to be. Joss does NOT like getting canceled.

Except the Angel series finale would have happened anyway if they could get the special effects budget to do season six on television.

Well, it would have been slightly different. Wesley would have lived AFAIK. I think Gun would have survived it too.

Spoiler:

Well technically, they both survived. Kind of. Just Wesley is a ghost now (and we know how permanent that is) and Gunn is a vampire.

Really? I haven't touched any of the "Comic Seasons".

Balefuego · May 2008

the Angel one is decent

the Buffy one is really really good though

Apothe0sis · May 2008

Underdog wrote: »

Apothe0sis wrote: »

Underdog wrote: »

[SNIP]Regarding Season Finale for Bones

Spoiler:

Also, Zack as Gormagon's apprentice? Smooth work. I had blindly guessed that it was Zack but it was just luck. The scene with Cam reading him a textbook in the hospital and then Bones and Booth come in all serious looking. "We have to talk to him. Alone." Cam's facial expressions were awesome.

Are you fucking kidding me? I love Bones way much, but the season finale was such ass it's unbelievable.

As I said in my last post, though about Angel rather than Bones, when characters act completely out of character in order to hammer them into a "shock" situation in a completely round-ped square hole situation it is terrible writing.

Specifically

Spoiler:

Zach as Gormagond's apprentice makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. It is such an incredibly cheap device designed to shock - it doesn't explain or highlight anything which had gone unnoticed earlier, it just cones out of absolutely nowhere not tying into the past plots at all.

But more importantly, it makes absolutely no sense in regard to Zach's character. Zach is portrayed as hyper logical, and yet somehow fails to realise that EATING PEOPLE or creating weird silver skeletons to resemble Masonic mythology is not a rational behaviour ad that thus there is more going on than the "Master's logic".

More importantly, Zach fails to utilise what we call the measured response, a hallmark of rationality. In comparison to the direct harm that the individual members of the secret society hypothetically do, killing them is an overreaction. Give that they are secret, their motives cannot be judged in terms of being for good or ill (or presuming that we grant that they are by definition for ill, to what degree of badness), and in comparison there are groups which actively and openly work to society's detriment who would take a higher priority to be thwarted than secret societies - by focusing arbitrarily upon secret societies is not rational.

The "implacable logic" of the Master also fails to provide any motivation for creating canine dentures, which as a crazy and out of character act Zach would require.

Then, there is of course the fact that it isn't rational to start killing people who you think are contributing badly to society as everyone has their own thoughs on what is and is not good for society, and should this behaviour generalise then society and the human experience will be degraded far, far further than if no one went around killing people.

So, the twist is an inherently bad one with an incredibly lazy and demonstrable flimsy justification which does't even slot into the rest of the narrative in any meaningful sense. We discover othing new about the Zach, Gormagond or other characters due to the twist. I hate it, so much.

Not only that they completely failed to discuss the details of Gormagond they were coviced of earlier, like "has access to children" and so forth, just "hey, it's some utterly random dude with a big house, how about that?"

Plus, the whole thing with Hodgens pressing the button and looking shady? Cheap device to make him look. Epic fail all round.

Yes yes yes, when I sit around and give it some real thought, inconsistencies appear. But it made enough sense during that my brain let me gloss over them and enjoy the episode, which is all I really wanted in the first place. The biggest leap really was

Spoiler:

Zack taking Hodgins' rantings as fact
but I managed to bridge the gap by going over it really quickly in my head. It was fun! I don't really expect a lot from Bones' plot. I just like the characters. Overall, it wasn't super well done but enjoyable.

I like you Underdog, you're a swell guy. And I can get behind that.

Apothe0sis · May 2008

Sentry wrote: »

Apothe0sis wrote: »

Prohass wrote: »

Apotheosis, looking for hard reality and tactical logic in the Buffy and Angel universe is just silly. If it bugged you that much, there is so much worse throughout both shows, it baffles me that you bothered to watch them through to the finale at all if it irked you so much.

The idea that there should be some sort of narrative coherence or character continuity is hardly silly.

yes, that is clearly the problem... it's not that you are completely nitpicking to a point that many would find irrational and perhaps needing some kind of medication.

That's some powerful rhetoric there, Brutus.

Mai-Kero · May 2008

shryke wrote: »

Mai-Kero wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

Mai-Kero wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

ElJeffe wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

Everyone but Dawn and Giles were supposed to die at the end of S5 after all.

Wait, what?

The original plan for the end of S5 was the end of the series. (Remember, this is the last season on ... whatever the fuck network they were on at the time. The last 2 seasons were on UPN or something.)

Anyway, Joss's plan for the end was:

1) Glory kills Tara
2) Willow goes crazy and super powered (like at the end of S6) and kills Glory, then starts wrecking the place up
3) Buffy kills Willow to stop it
4) Spike dies trying to protect Dawn
5) Xander dies trying to protect Anya or reason with Willow, Anya buys it at some point too
6) Buffy sacrifices herself to stop the hole into hell from opening
7) The whole town gets fucked/destroyed (like in end of S7) and Giles escapes with Dawn

Something close to that as I remember it. I'll see if I can dig up the original.

Anyway, the other writers vetoed it, saying they COULD get picked up somewhere else, so the end of S5 was changed to something slightly less .... Apocalyptic. (It was supposed to be a kind of fuck you to the network or something) The Angel series Finale was the same sort of thing this was supposed to be. Joss does NOT like getting canceled.

Except the Angel series finale would have happened anyway if they could get the special effects budget to do season six on television.

Well, it would have been slightly different. Wesley would have lived AFAIK. I think Gun would have survived it too.

Spoiler:

Well technically, they both survived. Kind of. Just Wesley is a ghost now (and we know how permanent that is) and Gunn is a vampire.

Really? I haven't touched any of the "Comic Seasons".

They're glorious. But it would take an HBO series budget to make either of them.

Spoiler:

theSquid · May 2008

Mai-Kero wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

Mai-Kero wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

Mai-Kero wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

ElJeffe wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

Everyone but Dawn and Giles were supposed to die at the end of S5 after all.

Wait, what?

The original plan for the end of S5 was the end of the series. (Remember, this is the last season on ... whatever the fuck network they were on at the time. The last 2 seasons were on UPN or something.)

Anyway, Joss's plan for the end was:

1) Glory kills Tara
2) Willow goes crazy and super powered (like at the end of S6) and kills Glory, then starts wrecking the place up
3) Buffy kills Willow to stop it
4) Spike dies trying to protect Dawn
5) Xander dies trying to protect Anya or reason with Willow, Anya buys it at some point too
6) Buffy sacrifices herself to stop the hole into hell from opening
7) The whole town gets fucked/destroyed (like in end of S7) and Giles escapes with Dawn

Something close to that as I remember it. I'll see if I can dig up the original.

Anyway, the other writers vetoed it, saying they COULD get picked up somewhere else, so the end of S5 was changed to something slightly less .... Apocalyptic. (It was supposed to be a kind of fuck you to the network or something) The Angel series Finale was the same sort of thing this was supposed to be. Joss does NOT like getting canceled.

Except the Angel series finale would have happened anyway if they could get the special effects budget to do season six on television.

Well, it would have been slightly different. Wesley would have lived AFAIK. I think Gun would have survived it too.

Spoiler:

Well technically, they both survived. Kind of. Just Wesley is a ghost now (and we know how permanent that is) and Gunn is a vampire.

Really? I haven't touched any of the "Comic Seasons".

They're glorious. But it would take an HBO series budget to make either of them.

Spoiler:

For Angel, Wolfram & Hart sent the entire city of Los Angeles (and surrounding suburbs) to hell. Various demons claim different areas as their own. Angel tamed the dragon, who turned out to be intelligent, and is challenging the rest of the hell-dukes to save the people in their fiefdoms. Connor teamed up with some of the recurring female characters from past seasons (the cop from season 1, and the electrical girl from the third season) to form a haven for humans. Spike's rolling with a bunch of vampires at a beach resort, with Illyria as his bodyguard, and Gunn was turned into a vampire and is now pursuing revenge against Angel for leading them into a battle they couldn't win. He's kind of iffy about killing humans in the process. He has his own vampire gang.

Wesley was turned into a ghost through the same clause in his Wolfram & Hart contract that turned Gavin and the rest of the employees into zombies when the Beast attacked.

Spoiler:

Mai-Kero · May 2008

theSquid wrote: »

Mai-Kero wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

Mai-Kero wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

Mai-Kero wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

ElJeffe wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

Everyone but Dawn and Giles were supposed to die at the end of S5 after all.

Wait, what?

The original plan for the end of S5 was the end of the series. (Remember, this is the last season on ... whatever the fuck network they were on at the time. The last 2 seasons were on UPN or something.)

Anyway, Joss's plan for the end was:

1) Glory kills Tara
2) Willow goes crazy and super powered (like at the end of S6) and kills Glory, then starts wrecking the place up
3) Buffy kills Willow to stop it
4) Spike dies trying to protect Dawn
5) Xander dies trying to protect Anya or reason with Willow, Anya buys it at some point too
6) Buffy sacrifices herself to stop the hole into hell from opening
7) The whole town gets fucked/destroyed (like in end of S7) and Giles escapes with Dawn

Something close to that as I remember it. I'll see if I can dig up the original.

Anyway, the other writers vetoed it, saying they COULD get picked up somewhere else, so the end of S5 was changed to something slightly less .... Apocalyptic. (It was supposed to be a kind of fuck you to the network or something) The Angel series Finale was the same sort of thing this was supposed to be. Joss does NOT like getting canceled.

Except the Angel series finale would have happened anyway if they could get the special effects budget to do season six on television.

Well, it would have been slightly different. Wesley would have lived AFAIK. I think Gun would have survived it too.

Spoiler:

Well technically, they both survived. Kind of. Just Wesley is a ghost now (and we know how permanent that is) and Gunn is a vampire.

Really? I haven't touched any of the "Comic Seasons".

They're glorious. But it would take an HBO series budget to make either of them.

Spoiler:

For Angel, Wolfram & Hart sent the entire city of Los Angeles (and surrounding suburbs) to hell. Various demons claim different areas as their own. Angel tamed the dragon, who turned out to be intelligent, and is challenging the rest of the hell-dukes to save the people in their fiefdoms. Connor teamed up with some of the recurring female characters from past seasons (the cop from season 1, and the electrical girl from the third season) to form a haven for humans. Spike's rolling with a bunch of vampires at a beach resort, with Illyria as his bodyguard, and Gunn was turned into a vampire and is now pursuing revenge against Angel for leading them into a battle they couldn't win. He's kind of iffy about killing humans in the process. He has his own vampire gang.

Wesley was turned into a ghost through the same clause in his Wolfram & Hart contract that turned Gavin and the rest of the employees into zombies when the Beast attacked.

Spoiler:

No, not the cop from season 1, the werewolf girl that Angel was dating in season 5. Also: (epic spoiler)

Spoiler:

Angel is apparently human, I think

Spoiler:

bychance · June 2008

Medopine wrote: »

I don't like that actress, bah

This will either be great or terrible

Gina Carano! I love you for having her in your signature.

EddieDean · June 2008

shryke wrote: »

Neaden wrote: »

To be fair, nothing about season 7 ever ended up making sense.

I don't know WHY they threw out the original plans. Although, I guess peoples hatred of Dawn was part of it. Though the "Dawn's NOT a Slayerette" did lead to a very nice scene with her and Xander, giving us yet another reason why the men on that show were the best thing.

They had some good ideas, but shitty execution.

Whoah, wait, what were the original plans for Season 7?

shryke · June 2008

EddieDean wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

Neaden wrote: »

To be fair, nothing about season 7 ever ended up making sense.

I don't know WHY they threw out the original plans. Although, I guess peoples hatred of Dawn was part of it. Though the "Dawn's NOT a Slayerette" did lead to a very nice scene with her and Xander, giving us yet another reason why the men on that show were the best thing.

They had some good ideas, but shitty execution.

Whoah, wait, what were the original plans for Season 7?

Vague recollections tell me the original idea was that Dawn was a slayer too. Sorta.

Remember that creepy eye thingy Giles and Anya went to see? And it says something about "The First can attack now and wipe out the Slayer line because of something YOU did"?

Well, the idea is that Dawn is made out of Buffy. And therefore IS, in someway, the Slayer too. So, when they brought Buffy back to life, the Slayer inheritance thing went all wacky. The line has been split. Not working quite like it should, so there is the ability now to completely wipe it out.

Dawn was supposed to be a Slayerette or something. Then that got scrapped because ... I don't know. Maybe cause no one liked Dawn?

It's been awhile since I read up on this stuff. There were a few other things too.

Buchwald · June 2008

shryke wrote: »

EddieDean wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

Neaden wrote: »

To be fair, nothing about season 7 ever ended up making sense.

I don't know WHY they threw out the original plans. Although, I guess peoples hatred of Dawn was part of it. Though the "Dawn's NOT a Slayerette" did lead to a very nice scene with her and Xander, giving us yet another reason why the men on that show were the best thing.

They had some good ideas, but shitty execution.

Whoah, wait, what were the original plans for Season 7?

Vague recollections tell me the original idea was that Dawn was a slayer too. Sorta.

Remember that creepy eye thingy Giles and Anya went to see? And it says something about "The First can attack now and wipe out the Slayer line because of something YOU did"?

Well, the idea is that Dawn is made out of Buffy. And therefore IS, in someway, the Slayer too. So, when they brought Buffy back to life, the Slayer inheritance thing went all wacky. The line has been split. Not working quite like it should, so there is the ability now to completely wipe it out.

Dawn was supposed to be a Slayerette or something. Then that got scrapped because ... I don't know. Maybe cause no one liked Dawn?

It's been awhile since I read up on this stuff. There were a few other things too.

The Slayer line had been broken for years before Dawn came around though.

shryke · June 2008

Buchwald wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

EddieDean wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

Neaden wrote: »

To be fair, nothing about season 7 ever ended up making sense.

I don't know WHY they threw out the original plans. Although, I guess peoples hatred of Dawn was part of it. Though the "Dawn's NOT a Slayerette" did lead to a very nice scene with her and Xander, giving us yet another reason why the men on that show were the best thing.

They had some good ideas, but shitty execution.

Whoah, wait, what were the original plans for Season 7?

Vague recollections tell me the original idea was that Dawn was a slayer too. Sorta.

Remember that creepy eye thingy Giles and Anya went to see? And it says something about "The First can attack now and wipe out the Slayer line because of something YOU did"?

Well, the idea is that Dawn is made out of Buffy. And therefore IS, in someway, the Slayer too. So, when they brought Buffy back to life, the Slayer inheritance thing went all wacky. The line has been split. Not working quite like it should, so there is the ability now to completely wipe it out.

Dawn was supposed to be a Slayerette or something. Then that got scrapped because ... I don't know. Maybe cause no one liked Dawn?

It's been awhile since I read up on this stuff. There were a few other things too.

The Slayer line had been broken for years before Dawn came around though.

Not broken. Buffy died, Kendra comes along, Buffy comes back to life. There's 2 slayers, but the line continues on through Kendra, then Faith. The thing was, now Buffy's Slayerness was getting split between 2 people.

This was the explanation anyway. Nitpicking shit like this in Buffy is, frankly, retarded.

j0hnz3r · June 2008

Just out of curiosity, why the FUCK would Joss work with Fox again? I mean, after the snow job that was Firefly, what kind of check did they give to Joss to make him come back?

Oh, and HELO!!!

Balefuego · June 2008

j0hnz3r wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, why the FUCK would Joss work with Fox again? I mean, after the snow job that was Firefly, what kind of check did they give to Joss to make him come back?

Oh, and HELO!!!

pretty sure it's been stated already a couple times in the thread, but Eliza is under contract with Fox.

And the people in charge when Firefly was on the air are no longer in charge.

shryke · June 2008

Joss has also got some deal with Fox. That's why Firefly was on Fox in the first place.

RUNN1NGMAN · November 2008

Fox has announced that Dollhouse will be starting out on...Fridays. And Sarah Connor Chronicles will be moving to Friday to ensure that absolutely no one but hard-core dorks with no life (like me) will be tuning in.

Seriously Fox, why the fuck do you hate Joss Whedon so much? Friday nights are like a death sentence for a show that has a target demo of anyone under the age of 50. I give Dollhouse 3.5 weeks. Halfway through the fourth episode they will cut the feed and just start an old episode of When Animals Attack.

noir_blood · November 2008

Yeah, I heard the news and pretty much figure to be dead.

To be fair to Fox though, I don't think it's their fault this time. First of all, they actually placed an order for episodes without ever even seeing a pilot for the show, which is not a common thing. They went into it with full faith in Whedon.

Sadly, as even Whedon has said in some interviews, what he sold Fox, and what he actually delivered were two very different things.

mxmarks · November 2008

Yeah, I want this to be good, but I don't think it will be, and the Friday time is no vote of confidence...

valiance · November 2008

noir_blood wrote: »

Sadly, as even Whedon has said in some interviews, what he sold Fox, and what he actually delivered were two very different things.

how so?

Lord Jezo · November 2008

Sort of reminds me a bit too much of The Island. Especially those scenes of everyone walking around on the compound all happy and beautiful.

And boy did The Island suck.

OremLK · November 2008

RUNN1NGMAN wrote: »

Fox has announced that Dollhouse will be starting out on...Fridays. And Sarah Connor Chronicles will be moving to Friday to ensure that absolutely no one but hard-core dorks with no life (like me) will be tuning in.

Seriously Fox, why the fuck do you hate Joss Whedon so much? Friday nights are like a death sentence for a show that has a target demo of anyone under the age of 50. I give Dollhouse 3.5 weeks. Halfway through the fourth episode they will cut the feed and just start an old episode of When Animals Attack.

God damn it. God damn it. God damn it.

FUCK.

Lacroix · November 2008

Whedon show or not, its just kinda sad that this is how the system works, a unless it becomes the 'next big thing' in a week like Heroes or Lost, shows like this are never really going to be allowed to find an audience. Frankly i'm surprised The Sarah Conner Chronicles has lasted as long as it had...

OremLK · November 2008

Apparently one of the network execs says they're going to give Dollhouse "12-13 weeks"...

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/11/foxs_slate_shuffle_a_longterm.php

Mr. Beckman doesn't pretend that "Dollhouse" and "Terminator" have an easy path ahead of them. But, particularly in the case of "Dollhouse," Mr. Beckman thinks the less competitive Friday night will give the show a better chance to build an audience than a more high-profile night.

"If we put it on Monday and it didn't do well, we might have to yank it," he said. But because Fox's winter lineup should be solid on Saturday through Thursday nights, "We can afford to let these shows run their course. We can give them 12 or 13 weeks to find an audience."

I'd be a lot more comforted by that if it wasn't almost exactly what they gave Firefly (in the same time slot) before killing it.

Lacroix · November 2008

Yeah, but to be fair we got a series and a movie out of Firefly. A movie which, if it hadn't been for a bit of sequel baiting ('they won't give up... I think they know i'm not their man' or whichever, its been a bit since i saw serenity) would have offered decent closure.

It's easy to bitch about Firefly, but i'm very happy with what we got. I mean, we could all still be here and be complaining how much its gone downhill ala Buffy.

I think 13 episodes is a decent series length, and if writers anticipate cancellation (like Tim Minear did with wonderfalls) then we can end up with some lovely series that don't need extending.

I'd pay good money to see more dead like me and see where they were going with it, but for Firefly and Wonderfalls, I think one series was almost enough in some ways.

OremLK · November 2008

Oh, don't get me wrong--I'd rather have those fourteen episodes and the movie than not have them at all. Doesn't mean FOX was in the right with the way they handled the show, or that having more of a good thing would have been... well, bad.

Lacroix · November 2008

Oh yeah I agree. I'm just saying the cancellation of FF annoyed me less than some, because even without the movie, the episode objects in Space did leave us with a kind of closure in the sense of 'theyre all like a family now, with the final acceptance of River as part of the crew' - Unlike other series that just leave you hanging and make me curse the heavens everytime i get near the end of a DVD set - Carnivale/ American Gothic *cough cough* I can watch Firefly as a series and not feel like it needed to go on.

On that note. Hate also to cancelled series' with no DVD release and leave you hanging a bit - Brimstone oh how i miss thee!

But back on topic: Really looking forward to this show. Other than Pushing Daisies and BSG i'm kinda lacking in really worthwhile shows to invest my time in currently.

OremLK · November 2008

Yeah, Dollhouse looks pretty cool. I'm not too pleased with the promos, admittedly, but I think they're just crappy commercials, not indicators of a bad show. I especially dislike that moment in both of them...

ECHO
Did I fall asleep?

It comes across as so artificial and fake out of context, which is kind of the point, but it's a horrible choice for an isolated shot.

The bigger problem is that the promos are sending super-mixed signals, especially the recent one-minute trailer that will probably be getting airtime.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WwPpfyPUC8

Does it want to be a sincere drama or a high-concept science fiction show?

INeedNoSalt · November 2008

You can't have a sincerely dramatic science fiction show?

Obviously if I were going to make a show called 'dollhouse' I would make the 'dolls' blond, i feel like this is a failing on Whedon's part.

OremLK · November 2008

Of course you can, I just don't think you can market one as such. I hope to be proven wrong.

Penny Arcade

Dollhouse, New show by Joss Whedon

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