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[WoW] I, for one, welcome our Retribution overlords [Paladins]

DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
edited September 2008 in MMO Extravaganza
Time for new paladin thread!

So paladin roles in WoW have changed a fair bit in the Burning Crusade, with all three specs, Retribution, Protection, and Holy all viable raid specs.

Rest of OP shamelessly stolen from previous one.


What the fuck is a Paladin?

hambig.jpg
Paladins are either defenders of the Holy Light or reformed Naaru kidnappers.

Paladins are a class that is in relatively high demand in the current state of things. With their talents geared towards Holy, they are powerful single-target healers, with good mana efficiency and relatively good longevity (depending on the nature of the fight).
With their talents geared towards Protection, they are outstanding tanks, equal to warriors in almost every way, and also having the added ability to AOE tank effortlessly. However, because of the previous warrior-dominated tanking scene, it is very difficult to be accepted as an equal to a warrior tank as a paladin in many guilds and raids.
Geared towards Retribution, they are capable melee damage-dealers, with a great deal of utility that they bring to the group in additon to their damage, such as the ability to keep up multiple paladin Judgements on the target, an extra paladin blessing (a lifesaver in 5mans when running without a paladin tank or healer, Blessing of Salvation is greatly missed when one is used to it), and the ability to protect others in a pinch with a Blessing of Protection.



Races
Four races can be Paladins:

Humans
Dwarves
Draenei*

Blood Elves*

*Requires the Burning Crusade Expansion

While you should pick the race with animations and voices you like, players who like to pick their race on their racial ability should consider the following. Human paladins get a nice bonus to Expertise when wielding Swords or Maces, which are the weapons that paladin tanks always wield, and the weapons that Retribution paladins sometimes wield. Means little as Holy. Draenei get a nice +hit aura for their party members, which is nice for any paladin, especially Retribution. Extra party utility to complement their already considerable arsenal of it is welcome indeed. Gift of the Naaru scales with +healing, and so is a very powerful spell for Holy paladins, as it gives them a much needed heal over time spell. Finally, Dwarves get Stoneform, which basically acts a second Divine Shield for magical debuffs.

If you are Horde, Blood Elf is your only option. Mana Tap and Arcane Torrent are pretty nice racials, though. As Retribution or Protection, you typically have a very small mana pool, a full stack of Mana Tap can often restore 10% of your mana. As Holy, it is less useful, but Arcane Torrent is a great PvP skill.

Talents

Holy: Once the only tree paladins would ever be interested in, it is nevertheless still a huge component of all paladins, particularly those that raid or PvP. Not as strong as once it was, paladin healers are still masters of powerful, single-target heals, mana efficiency combined with sheer output of healing, and utility in the form of Greater Blessings.

Protection (aka Prot): This is our tanking tree, dedicated to increasing our threat generation as well as our damage mitigation. Paladin tanking is right in its prime right now, with a few things here and there that could be improved, but mostly we are in very good shape, equal MTs for warriors, with the only main reason to use a warrior over a paladin being that a warrior specced for tanking can't do much else other than tank whereas a paladin can handle gimmicks of encounters such as AOE elements.

Retribution (aka Ret): Retribution is still a very much underused tree, but is definitely on the way up, with most raids trying to find room for at least one Retribution paladin, due to their ability to keep up multiple judgements at once from many different paladins, and of course bringing an extra blessing, limiting the need for extra paladin healers (of which too many can be limiting).

Resources
Holy:
TBA
Protection:
www.failsafedesign.com/maintankadin
Retribution:
TBA


PvE Specs

Holy (thanks to Little Jim)
Protection
Retribution (thanks to Sabremau)

These aren't perfect, but simply exist to give you an idea of specs solely focused on PvE.

PvP Specs: thanks to Little Jim

Holy
Protection
Spoiler:
Retribution

Dhalphir on
Tube-san wrote:
I apologise for my rudeness desu.
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Posts

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    my second article is up on Tank Hard!

    www.tankhard.com

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • Little JimLittle Jim __BANNED USERS
    edited June 2008
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Leveling Specs
    We get asked a lot about leveling specs, so here is one for each:

    Holy
    Protection
    Retribution

    These are just builds for soloing. You may group more or have different goals, but for leveling the option is to increase damage while reducing downtime.

    PvE Specs

    Holy
    Protection
    Retribution

    These aren't perfect, but simply exist to give you an idea of specs solely focused on PvE.

    PvP Specs

    Holy
    Protection
    Retribution

    you lazy fucking

    th_crabz.png
  • Soviet WaffleSoviet Waffle Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Dhalphir more like Double Posthir.

    League of Legends: Studio
  • Soviet WaffleSoviet Waffle Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Seriously it's true.

    League of Legends: Studio
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    hey now those specs are still perfectly viable no need to fix what aint broken

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    rewrote some of the talent tree descriptions to be more current

    you demanding fucks

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • AldarezAldarez Registered User
    edited June 2008
    He does like to double post.

    Also I've heard he writes for tankhard.com.

    Anyone know what sort of stats I should be looking at to heal heroics? I'm getting bored and considering speccing Holy just for something different.

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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I heal most heroics with 1500+ healing without respeccing.

    so figure 1200+ specced as holy to do it comfortably.

    if you're getting really bored though i could use another smart prot paladin in our guild. we have a couple but they suck.

    i fucking hate how dependent the guild is on having me there. if i'm not there, they can't seem to kill Leo, or do Hyjal (lol aoe), and it makes it really hard to take a night off.

    also, to address the Spiritual Attunement question from the older thread, yes, you get threat from energy gains. 1 point of mana gained = 0.5 threat, divided between all targets you are in combat with. Its not huge, but if you have more mana than you can spend, every bit counts.

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • Soviet WaffleSoviet Waffle Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I've healed heroics with 1k healing on a fresh 70 Paladin (As holy). As long as your tank isn't terribad, and you pay attention you can do it. You can't do the wild pulls, but you can still get badges :rotate:

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  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Holy is at the top of its game right now, being heavily populated in PvE and PvP areas of the game. Many say that Holy has no where to go but down from here, so when speccing Holy, do not expect too many future improvements without giving up something in return.

    False information is false. Holy paladins are the worst pvp healers in the game, currently.

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  • Soviet WaffleSoviet Waffle Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Broad statement is broad.

    Holy is strong in 5s isn't it?

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  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Broad statement is broad.

    Holy is strong in 5s isn't it?

    Its more that 5v5 is the only bracket its even viable in.

    1208768734831.jpg
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    its still strong and the statement stands

    i also don't pvp as holy so i don't want to write the paragraph

    i will edit the OP if anyone has the know-how to write one

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • SabreMauSabreMau Still featuring glasses. Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    PvE Specs

    Holy
    Protection
    Retribution

    I have no idea what the usual PvE holy build is these days.

    1yrxP.jpgmXcqC.jpgtYRm1.jpg
  • Zephyranthes91Zephyranthes91 Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    inspired by Vashj, I am thinking of droppin 2 pts from Spell Warding and 1 point from either Improved Judgement or Blessing of Kings and picking up 3/3 Pursuit of Justice.

    thoughts?

    You hadn't doen this already? o_0 Post me your current spec, or if you've already respecced then post your old one. Mine is currently 0/46/15. I just haven't updated my sig yet

    sig-919109.jpg
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    standard 0/49/12

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Why do a lot of paladins choose the improved devo aura in the protection tree and skip precision?

    A.jpg
  • Zephyranthes91Zephyranthes91 Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    ive always taken both spell warding and pursuit of justice. never had a problem so far. Precision to me seemed basically pointless since it doesnt really help worth shit due to the fact that its such a small percent. If i miss with avengers shield i just judge righteousness to give myself some threat and then tell my dps to hold for a sec so i can build a little more threat since it missed. Kings i wouldnt drop though because its an awesome blessing and even most holy paladins dont spec for it. Of all the paladins in my guild, only myself and one holy paladin have it.

    sig-919109.jpg
  • Soviet WaffleSoviet Waffle Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Precision is great.

    The only skill it doesn't affect is consecrate (Minus the first hit). I guess Seals, but if they miss they're a resist.
    It's 3% threat on all skills that aren't consecrate essentially (This is wrong, it may be more, but I know that number is not right, but it's at least 3 unless you're hit capped)

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  • SabreMauSabreMau Still featuring glasses. Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Well, Seal of Vengeance can be resisted, Blood and Command are basically extra melee attacks (can be missed/dodged/parried, but not resisted), and Righteousness is guaranteed as long as the melee swing connects.

    1yrxP.jpgmXcqC.jpgtYRm1.jpg
  • VarethiusVarethius Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Brainleech wrote: »
    Why do a lot of paladins choose the improved devo aura in the protection tree and skip precision?

    I didn't choose improved devo. Mainly because I'm grinding aoe and therefore have Retri aura up. Also I think the +chance to block is alot more useful than the +armour from the imp. aura.

    I haven't skiped percision.... and doubt I will for a while. That extra 3% chance to hit really helps when doing orange/red quests.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    davecrow.jpg
  • Nova_CNova_C Sniff Sniff Snorf Beyond The WallRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Brainleech wrote: »
    Why do a lot of paladins choose the improved devo aura in the protection tree and skip precision?

    They do? Man. When I tank I typically have retri aura up except on bosses and the tiny improvement in mitigation isn't worth it when I'd rather have the extra threat generation on groups - which means imp dev aura is wasted points.

    Besides, you can't build threat if you can't hit the boss and precision assists with that.

    My blog: www.jonathanirons.net
    My Twitter: IronBorealis
    Be advised, I'm not the best at keeping either updated. >.>
  • reVersereVerse Never odd or even Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Brainleech wrote: »
    Why do a lot of paladins choose the improved devo aura in the protection tree and skip precision?

    Sounds like something that a player who is not particularly good or smart might do.

  • VarethiusVarethius Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    reVerse wrote: »
    Brainleech wrote: »
    Why do a lot of paladins choose the improved devo aura in the protection tree and skip precision?

    Sounds like something that a player who is not particularly good or smart might do.

    Something I originally did =p Before the fine folks of this thread set me right ofc.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    davecrow.jpg
  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Brainleech wrote: »
    Why do a lot of paladins choose the improved devo aura in the protection tree and skip precision?

    Generally only Holy Paladins would do that.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    once you get into later 25mans Ret aura becomes largely useless and Devotion Aura is preferred for hard-hitting bosses

    its not worth improving it with talents but it is worth using

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • VarethiusVarethius Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Oh yeh, with the mention of ret aura.... if someone in my party gets hit and ret aura does damage to the mob. Will that be threat be generated by me because it's my buff or will the threat be generated by the person who got hit because the buff damage is coming from them? (if that even makes sense O_o)

    I was told it'd be the latter case by someone who apearently had a 70 pally on another server >.>;;

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    davecrow.jpg
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I honestly don't know but Thorns works the latter way and its all considered damage reflection i think

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • elgatoelgato Registered User
    edited June 2008
    I don't want to hijack the thread, but is this thread only for PVE Paladin chat? Or can I cry right now about arenas. (2v2 bracket)

  • VarethiusVarethius Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Hmmn, may have to look around/experiment with it a bit then. Thanks though =)

    EDIT:
    I don't want to hijack the thread, but is this thread only for PVE Paladin chat? Or can I cry right now about arenas. (2v2 bracket)

    PvP too as far as im aware =p

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    davecrow.jpg
  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    What's so gimped about pally healers in the Arena? I remember basically coming upon a lot of Warrior/Paladin teams and saying "well, that's a loss" before the game even started.

    PierceNeck wrote: »
    People still do the anal thing?
  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    elgato wrote: »
    I don't want to hijack the thread, but is this thread only for PVE Paladin chat? Or can I cry right now about arenas. (2v2 bracket)

    We'll make a corner for you and DisruptorX2. :lol:

  • SabreMauSabreMau Still featuring glasses. Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    What's so gimped about pally healers in the Arena? I remember basically coming upon a lot of Warrior/Paladin teams and saying "well, that's a loss" before the game even started.
    Paladins used to be the arena healers. Then everyone learned how to fight paladin healers and shut them down with relative ease, and so they plunged to the bottom, far below priests and druids.

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  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Unless every team runs with a dispeller now, I really don't see how Paladins dropped to the bottom of the barrel for Arena Healing.

    PierceNeck wrote: »
    People still do the anal thing?
  • reVersereVerse Never odd or even Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    The problem with Paladins is that they're so easy to lockdown. A Druid can throw his HoTs and still heal while being CC'd, a Priest can HoT, shield or PoM, and Shaman have Earth Shield. Druids and Shaman also have Nature's Swiftness to throw an instant big heal the moment they regain control of their character. A Paladin has none of this.

  • SabreMauSabreMau Still featuring glasses. Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Flash of Light is (usually) too weak for arena-level burst damage, and Holy Light is 2.5 seconds of standing motionless in one place. So, yeah.

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  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Simi Valley, CARegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Are the Midnight Leggaurds out of H.SP good pants for a Ret Paladin? Just in terms of newly 70, no badges, etc. etc.

  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    The OP is so informative! ...a year ago!

    I like how you bothered to update the prot website links section though and put your shitty blog link before Maintankadin.

    Organichu wrote:
    she's some sort of malevolent creature who bores through this world into the next using hatred and suffering as her fuel
  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Simi Valley, CARegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I like how the specs are done without an actual linked build.

  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    reVerse wrote: »
    The problem with Paladins is that they're so easy to lockdown. A Druid can throw his HoTs and still heal while being CC'd, a Priest can HoT, shield or PoM, and Shaman have Earth Shield. Druids and Shaman also have Nature's Swiftness to throw an instant big heal the moment they regain control of their character. A Paladin has none of this.

    Well that sucks. I just x-ferred my 70 pally over to my buddies server and was having quite a bit of fun healing in BG's and such, and was hoping to one day maybe get some Arena in for him. I'm not going to even attempt it though if it's going to be nothing but a frustrating mess like it is on my other characters.

    PierceNeck wrote: »
    People still do the anal thing?
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