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Metal Gear Raiden? See Page 85 (Previously the MGS4 Thread)

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Posts

  • NickTheNewbieNickTheNewbie Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Ending of MGS4
    Spoiler:

    And he is dying. Just marginally slower.

    It doesn't matter what he deserved, what he earned, or what is fair. That's life, life isn't fair, and sometimes it ends in tragedy

  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Ending of MGS4
    Spoiler:

    And he is dying. Just marginally slower.

    It doesn't matter what he deserved, what he earned, or what is fair. That's life, life isn't fair, and sometimes it ends in tragedy
    Spoiler:

  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2009
    Its not real life, its a fucking game and Snake is the hero, so shit doesnt happen that way. He wanted to live theres nothing selfish about that.

    And he still had the virus, at least pay attention if youre gonna bash it.

    ...it's in the shape of a giant c**k.
  • JONJONAUGJONJONAUG Registered User
    edited March 2009
    Its not real life, its a fucking game and Snake is the hero, so shit doesnt happen that way. He wanted to live theres nothing selfish about that.

    And he still had the virus, at least pay attention if youre gonna bash it.

    He did, but it wouldn't mutate into that form for a while, and he would most likely be dead by then anyway.

    ...and where in MGS 1 or 2 does it hint that Big Boss is still alive (or in 4 for that matter)?

  • yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    JONJONAUG wrote: »
    Its not real life, its a fucking game and Snake is the hero, so shit doesnt happen that way. He wanted to live theres nothing selfish about that.

    And he still had the virus, at least pay attention if youre gonna bash it.

    He did, but it wouldn't mutate into that form for a while, and he would most likely be dead by then anyway.

    ...and where in MGS 1 or 2 does it hint that Big Boss is still alive (or in 4 for that matter)?

    A classic theory of why they couldn't hand over Big Boss's remains in 1 was that he wasn't dead, and thus had no remains to be handed over.

  • JONJONAUGJONJONAUG Registered User
    edited March 2009
    yalborap wrote: »
    JONJONAUG wrote: »
    Its not real life, its a fucking game and Snake is the hero, so shit doesnt happen that way. He wanted to live theres nothing selfish about that.

    And he still had the virus, at least pay attention if youre gonna bash it.

    He did, but it wouldn't mutate into that form for a while, and he would most likely be dead by then anyway.

    ...and where in MGS 1 or 2 does it hint that Big Boss is still alive (or in 4 for that matter)?

    A classic theory of why they couldn't hand over Big Boss's remains in 1 was that he wasn't dead, and thus had no remains to be handed over.

    Even so, they still had his "body" in storage even if it was in a coma. No reason why they couldn't send him over anyway, wouldn't matter if he was alive or dead.
    MGS2 was the best stealth action the series offered without getting into stupid (i.e. camo index) gameplay systems. Easily my favorite game of the series.

    Now you see, I thought MGS3 was the only game in the series to actually have good gameplay. I loved MGS2's story (and I liked Raiden too, hated Rose though), but I thought the gameplay was just plain terrible even compared to MGS1. MGS1 and MGS2 really weren't "stealth" games even if they had some stealth elements, MGS3 was the first game to really try something unique with the gameplay.

    MGS1 - Good story, decent gameplay and great bosses
    MGS2 - Great story, terrible gameplay and bosses
    MGS3 - Good story, great gameplay and bosses
    MGS4 - Haven't played it, watched the cutscenes on YouTube and thought it was alright even if the ending came out of left field and was kind of crappy. Tied up most of the loose ends from the previous games even if it left behind a few plotholes while doing so. Watched some gameplay videos and it looks like this is a simplified version of MGS3 with bosses that aim to evoke nostalgia for previous bosses rather than do their own thing, looks interesting but not enough for me to get a PS3 to play it.

  • NickTheNewbieNickTheNewbie Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Its not real life, its a fucking game and Snake is the hero, so shit doesnt happen that way. He wanted to live theres nothing selfish about that.

    And he still had the virus, at least pay attention if youre gonna bash it.

    I hope you're not one of those people who whines about video games not being accepted as art, because i think a bullshit hollywood fanservice ending hardly qualifies as art.

  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2009
    Because if Snake has been one thing throughout the series its suicidal and prone to shooting himself in the face.

    ...it's in the shape of a giant c**k.
  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Because if Snake has been one thing throughout the series its a hero who would sacrifice himself for the good of the world if it came down to it

    fixed

  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2009
    Good god.

    He wanted to live. He was ready to do it BUT HE WANTED TO FUCKING LIVE. The whole point is throughout the game he doesn't show anyone that fear of death but in the end he doesn't want it to just end that way.

    I'd never expect anyone like Snake to end their story
    Spoiler:

    Just because it didn't do what you wanted doesn't make it 'hollywood'. The guy deserved better that that.

    ...it's in the shape of a giant c**k.
  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    It doesn't matter what the character deserves. What serves the story best is what matters, and quite frankly a hamfisted, neat little package with a bow on top ending is lazy and very, very fanfiction-y.

    Did the wanderer at the end of Diablo deserve what they got? After all, they literally went to hell and back to save the world and yet they get completely shafted. However, it serves the story very well.

    Did the Vault Dweller deserve what he got at the end of Fallout? He sacrificed everything for the Vault only to get his ass kicked out to the sand. Except, it made for a better story that way.

    So no, the ending might not be Hollywood, because Hollywood would probably have the sense to make a better ending instead of
    Spoiler:

  • AshcroftAshcroft Gimme dem Yens Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Yeah, I saw Big Boss declare he was going to fuck up the entire world for his own purposes (jk it's really 4 the boss), then get blown up, then come back as a cyborg, then burnt to a crisp. But oh look he's better, and now he's nice like Naked Snake again and not at all like a babbling supervillian. Admittedly I prefer nice Big Boss, but it made no sense. MGS usually has a silly plot, but the characters are usually pretty good, and when they're not it's really irritating.

    foxs1.png
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    The ending of the game was exactly in the spirit of the entire series.

    I'm not really sure what you were expecting. It's like you somehow expected the series to evolve into a well written story somewhere before the end and that would make everything all better.

    Hehe, I didn't expect it to be good at all, I wanted B grade trash. I love b grade trash, so very very much.
    *shrug*

    I just think some people had unrealistic expectations of the series when at no point in the last, what, eight years? had it given any hint it would fulfill them. What were you playing it for? I don't get it.

    My Dark Souls 2 Diary Day 6 and 7 Updated
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • xWonderboyxxWonderboyx Registered User
    edited March 2009
    JONJONAUG wrote: »
    yalborap wrote: »
    JONJONAUG wrote: »
    Its not real life, its a fucking game and Snake is the hero, so shit doesnt happen that way. He wanted to live theres nothing selfish about that.

    And he still had the virus, at least pay attention if youre gonna bash it.

    He did, but it wouldn't mutate into that form for a while, and he would most likely be dead by then anyway.

    ...and where in MGS 1 or 2 does it hint that Big Boss is still alive (or in 4 for that matter)?

    A classic theory of why they couldn't hand over Big Boss's remains in 1 was that he wasn't dead, and thus had no remains to be handed over.

    Even so, they still had his "body" in storage even if it was in a coma. No reason why they couldn't send him over anyway, wouldn't matter if he was alive or dead.
    MGS2 was the best stealth action the series offered without getting into stupid (i.e. camo index) gameplay systems. Easily my favorite game of the series.

    Now you see, I thought MGS3 was the only game in the series to actually have good gameplay. I loved MGS2's story (and I liked Raiden too, hated Rose though), but I thought the gameplay was just plain terrible even compared to MGS1. MGS1 and MGS2 really weren't "stealth" games even if they had some stealth elements, MGS3 was the first game to really try something unique with the gameplay.

    MGS1 - Good story, decent gameplay and great bosses
    MGS2 - Great story, terrible gameplay and bosses
    MGS3 - Good story, great gameplay and bosses
    MGS4 - Haven't played it, watched the cutscenes on YouTube and thought it was alright even if the ending came out of left field and was kind of crappy. Tied up most of the loose ends from the previous games even if it left behind a few plotholes while doing so. Watched some gameplay videos and it looks like this is a simplified version of MGS3 with bosses that aim to evoke nostalgia for previous bosses rather than do their own thing, looks interesting but not enough for me to get a PS3 to play it.
    What the fuck are you on about? MGS 1 and 2 had basically the same gameplay with some extra features thrown in for 2 (like shooting from first person mode and dragging bodies around).

    And I think you aren't really qualified to talk about 4 if all you've done is watched other people play it. That shit doesn't count when it comes to commenting. That's like trying to talk about a book you were supposed to read for class, but all you did was read what other people thought about it and regurgitated their opinions as your own.

    shark2.jpg
    XBL - Follow Freeman
  • JONJONAUGJONJONAUG Registered User
    edited March 2009
    JONJONAUG wrote: »
    yalborap wrote: »
    JONJONAUG wrote: »
    Its not real life, its a fucking game and Snake is the hero, so shit doesnt happen that way. He wanted to live theres nothing selfish about that.

    And he still had the virus, at least pay attention if youre gonna bash it.

    He did, but it wouldn't mutate into that form for a while, and he would most likely be dead by then anyway.

    ...and where in MGS 1 or 2 does it hint that Big Boss is still alive (or in 4 for that matter)?

    A classic theory of why they couldn't hand over Big Boss's remains in 1 was that he wasn't dead, and thus had no remains to be handed over.

    Even so, they still had his "body" in storage even if it was in a coma. No reason why they couldn't send him over anyway, wouldn't matter if he was alive or dead.
    MGS2 was the best stealth action the series offered without getting into stupid (i.e. camo index) gameplay systems. Easily my favorite game of the series.

    Now you see, I thought MGS3 was the only game in the series to actually have good gameplay. I loved MGS2's story (and I liked Raiden too, hated Rose though), but I thought the gameplay was just plain terrible even compared to MGS1. MGS1 and MGS2 really weren't "stealth" games even if they had some stealth elements, MGS3 was the first game to really try something unique with the gameplay.

    MGS1 - Good story, decent gameplay and great bosses
    MGS2 - Great story, terrible gameplay and bosses
    MGS3 - Good story, great gameplay and bosses
    MGS4 - Haven't played it, watched the cutscenes on YouTube and thought it was alright even if the ending came out of left field and was kind of crappy. Tied up most of the loose ends from the previous games even if it left behind a few plotholes while doing so. Watched some gameplay videos and it looks like this is a simplified version of MGS3 with bosses that aim to evoke nostalgia for previous bosses rather than do their own thing, looks interesting but not enough for me to get a PS3 to play it.
    What the fuck are you on about? MGS 1 and 2 had basically the same gameplay with some extra features thrown in for 2 (like shooting from first person mode and dragging bodies around).

    And I think you aren't really qualified to talk about 4 if all you've done is watched other people play it. That shit doesn't count when it comes to commenting. That's like trying to talk about a book you were supposed to read for class, but all you did was read what other people thought about it and regurgitated their opinions as your own.

    2 was in bad need of a freestyle camera like 3 Subsistence had (MGS3 is nearly unplayable in some areas without that player-controlled camera, my view of MGS3 in my last post is the Subsistence version). Compared to 1's level design I was much more frustrated with enemy placement (I shouldn't have to look around in first person view before entering every room or walking down a hallway that doesn't have the camera facing towards it). The bosses weren't nearly as memorable as the MGS1 or MGS3 bosses either. Add that to what amounts to less gameplay and more 40 minute long cutscenes and MGS2 was a fun game to watch but an extremely bad one to play.

  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow YRP...in position It's showtime, girls.Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    What. The. Fuck.

    When was the camera ever a problem in MGS2? The cameras were built around the enclosed environments really damn well.

    kTNzrVi.png?2
    Disasterrific! | Sometimes I stream PS4 games here | PSN: UnbreakableVow
  • IceBurnerIceBurner Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    The above trick is valid, though if I recall it doesn't really work vertically, just horizontally.

    There is actually one weapon in MGS1 which you can aim in first or third person - a mounted machine gun. Hold down the FPV button to be able to aim and fire in 1st person. Being mounted, you obviously can't take it with you. I'll let you find the thing on your own, though.

    3DS: 3024-6114-2886 | NNID: Rabites | Steam: IceBurner
    Pokémon SoulSilver: 4383 4365 0505 | Pokémon White 2: 3827 1506 3680
    PSN: theIceBurner, IceBurnerEU, IceBurner-JP | X-Link Kai: TheIceBurner
  • GroveGrove Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Wow this thread is fucking septic. I came in because I just started up another run through of MGS4 to reward myself and wanted to discuss some things. But wow, there's no discussion going on here, just insults left and right.

    I can only hope you guys calm down as it'd be nice to you know, join the discussion at some point.

    ______________
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    Grove and Chris, sitting in a tree, F-A-D-C-I-N-G.
    PSN: ObstinateGrove XBL: RavenSwordPMC Wii Code: 4347 3923 5144 0739 http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198035186086
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I can discuss mgs4 in a non insulting manner if required. Even if ya hate it, although if you just say you know "I hate it" or "I love it" there's not much to discuss there so my responses will be limited to "fair enough".

    My Dark Souls 2 Diary Day 6 and 7 Updated
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • IgortIgort Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Go ahead and talk, if people want to discuss openly with you I'm sure they will. As for me, I could talk about Metal Gear 'till the sun exploded.

    worldorder_zpse336707a.jpg
  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    What. The. Fuck.

    When was the camera ever a problem in MGS2? The cameras were built around the enclosed environments really damn well.

    Pretty much. The fixed camera only became a problem when they started including huge environments in MGS3, beforehand it was perfectly fine.

    MGS2's gameplay was fantastic, especially when compared to MGS3. Snake moved quicker, there were barely any menus and the controls weren't a complete clusterfuck. I actually liked CQC but christ, who the hell thought holding down 3 buttons to do a move was a good idea? MGS4 still had far better gameplay than any of them though.

    Anyway, I think people are reading a little too much into Hideo's presentation. Sure, it's pretty much confirmed that a MGS5 will be targeted specifically towards western audiences but I doubt Hideo's directing it, he's probably just a producer.

    Steam ID - LiquidSolid170 | PSN ID - LiquidSolid
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Hideo said he wasn't going to direct any more Metal Gear games. Though, he's said that before. I want to see someone elses take on the universe anyway, and Hideo to get back to work on something different.

  • xWonderboyxxWonderboyx Registered User
    edited March 2009
    JONJONAUG wrote: »
    JONJONAUG wrote: »
    yalborap wrote: »
    JONJONAUG wrote: »
    Its not real life, its a fucking game and Snake is the hero, so shit doesnt happen that way. He wanted to live theres nothing selfish about that.

    And he still had the virus, at least pay attention if youre gonna bash it.

    He did, but it wouldn't mutate into that form for a while, and he would most likely be dead by then anyway.

    ...and where in MGS 1 or 2 does it hint that Big Boss is still alive (or in 4 for that matter)?

    A classic theory of why they couldn't hand over Big Boss's remains in 1 was that he wasn't dead, and thus had no remains to be handed over.

    Even so, they still had his "body" in storage even if it was in a coma. No reason why they couldn't send him over anyway, wouldn't matter if he was alive or dead.
    MGS2 was the best stealth action the series offered without getting into stupid (i.e. camo index) gameplay systems. Easily my favorite game of the series.

    Now you see, I thought MGS3 was the only game in the series to actually have good gameplay. I loved MGS2's story (and I liked Raiden too, hated Rose though), but I thought the gameplay was just plain terrible even compared to MGS1. MGS1 and MGS2 really weren't "stealth" games even if they had some stealth elements, MGS3 was the first game to really try something unique with the gameplay.

    MGS1 - Good story, decent gameplay and great bosses
    MGS2 - Great story, terrible gameplay and bosses
    MGS3 - Good story, great gameplay and bosses
    MGS4 - Haven't played it, watched the cutscenes on YouTube and thought it was alright even if the ending came out of left field and was kind of crappy. Tied up most of the loose ends from the previous games even if it left behind a few plotholes while doing so. Watched some gameplay videos and it looks like this is a simplified version of MGS3 with bosses that aim to evoke nostalgia for previous bosses rather than do their own thing, looks interesting but not enough for me to get a PS3 to play it.
    What the fuck are you on about? MGS 1 and 2 had basically the same gameplay with some extra features thrown in for 2 (like shooting from first person mode and dragging bodies around).

    And I think you aren't really qualified to talk about 4 if all you've done is watched other people play it. That shit doesn't count when it comes to commenting. That's like trying to talk about a book you were supposed to read for class, but all you did was read what other people thought about it and regurgitated their opinions as your own.

    Add that to what amounts to less gameplay and more 40 minute long cutscenes and MGS2 was a fun game to watch but an extremely bad one to play.

    Because I always have to have the last word: While MGS2 had incredibly long cutscenes near the end, it had way more actual run around and be sneaky gameplay. MGS1 was pretty much 10 minutes of regular gameplay in between bosses and could be beaten in a much shorter span the 2 when skipping the cut scenes (assuming you are skipping the cut scenes in 2 as well).

    shark2.jpg
    XBL - Follow Freeman
  • never dienever die Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    The twist ending made it go from a downer ending or a more bitter then sweet ending, to a bittersweet ending.
    Spoiler:

    About the next game, I think it would be better to have a new main character, maybe with Raiden in a mentor or support role.

    Edit: Sorry about the messed up tags, I fixed them.

    Spoiler:
  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    edited March 2009

    I just think some people had unrealistic expectations of the series when at no point in the last, what, eight years? had it given any hint it would fulfill them. What were you playing it for? I don't get it.

    I don't know, given MGS1 and MGS3 had pretty solid stories I would've expected that 4 would rise a bit above fanfiction. MGS1, despite the preaching you get about 'nukez iz bAD!!' from everybody, was a pretty solid and coherent game. MGS3 had nonsensical bosses but at least it never tried to explain 'The Pain watched his parents get killed by an evil swarm of trained bees and vowed to avenge their deaths by controlling bees to kill other people and at night he cries tears of bees and conducts a bee orchestra of mournful buzzing' or some shit, and it actually had a pretty impactful ending.

    But 4? Ugh. I blame a bit of 4's terrible story on MGS2 and the way Kojima painted himself into a corner, but at least up until the ending I could still enjoy it because it was 'MGS terrible'. The ending just ruined the whole deal for me.

  • never dienever die Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Wait what? Since when did the Pain get any explanation what-so-ever?

    Also, this might just be an agree to disagree part. Some of us liked the ending, and didn't feel like it was rushed, except for the surprise character part. I don't feel like it was a fan-fiction ending, and that it was far from a happy ending for Snake.

    Spoiler:
  • JONJONAUGJONJONAUG Registered User
    edited March 2009
    What. The. Fuck.

    When was the camera ever a problem in MGS2? The cameras were built around the enclosed environments really damn well.

    Here's the thing. If I can't see any enemies ahead of me I'm going to rush right into a room/area. If the enemy isn't in my line of sight (I remember at least two cases in the game where I had to run directly towards the camera down a hallway and ran right into a group of enemies) then I'm going to be detected.

    I generally despise fixed camera angles because I always want to get a better view of what I'm looking/shooting at. It's annoying to switch to first person perspective every other time I want to shoot anything or look around. MGS1 at least had an excuse because it was on the PS1, MGS2 had no excuse for this at all.

    The cameras weren't built very well around the exterior environments either (with few exceptions, the Fatman boss battle had a well positioned camera, but you don't give players a jump that needs to be landed precisely in a non-jumping game and don't let them get a good view of what they're doing), or around some of the larger indoor areas (I had to redo the nude section 10 times because I kept being seen by enemies who were behind me, and I would've been able to see them coming if I could just shift the camera around every once in a while).

  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    never die wrote: »
    Wait what? Since when did the Pain get any explanation what-so-ever?

    I said he didn't get any kind of explanation, and then made a bullshit explanation that would be like what would have happened if Pain was in MGS4.

  • never dienever die Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Reznik wrote: »
    never die wrote: »
    Wait what? Since when did the Pain get any explanation what-so-ever?

    I said he didn't get any kind of explanation, and then made a bullshit explanation that would be like what would have happened if Pain was in MGS4.

    Oh I get it, you were making fun of the B&B squad. Who I thought was actually rather interesting. Taking tortured, crazy people and giving them power suits, being controlled mentally, and then sending them on a battlefield to destroy stuff? How is that any worse then "tortured" Fortune, the horrible stuff Sniper Wolf went through, or the insanity of Pyscho Mantis? Every MGS game has its tortured, could be an ally in different situations characters, or those you are supposed to feel sorry for. That was actually a nice part about MGS3. At least most of the Cobras you could kill without having to hear about daddy didn't love them, or daddy was banging gay double crossing vamp who the daughter is now banging, or the messed up life of one Hal Emmerich. I mean, you could hate Volgin, it was okay. You weren't ignoring some tragic past, Volgin was just a sadist who you could kill.

    Besides, I don't see how you can rip on the ending of MGS4 when the ending of MGS2 was such a cluster of confusion. It didn't help that MGS2 didn't have the advantage of 4 with the advent of a pause button. My God, the fact it took Kojima so long to implement that with the rediculous length of his cutscenes is confusing.

    Spoiler:
  • xWonderboyxxWonderboyx Registered User
    edited March 2009
    JONJONAUG wrote: »
    What. The. Fuck.

    When was the camera ever a problem in MGS2? The cameras were built around the enclosed environments really damn well.

    Here's the thing. If I can't see any enemies ahead of me I'm going to rush right into a room/area. If the enemy isn't in my line of sight (I remember at least two cases in the game where I had to run directly towards the camera down a hallway and ran right into a group of enemies) then I'm going to be detected.

    I generally despise fixed camera angles because I always want to get a better view of what I'm looking/shooting at. It's annoying to switch to first person perspective every other time I want to shoot anything or look around. MGS1 at least had an excuse because it was on the PS1, MGS2 had no excuse for this at all.

    The cameras weren't built very well around the exterior environments either (with few exceptions, the Fatman boss battle had a well positioned camera, but you don't give players a jump that needs to be landed precisely in a non-jumping game and don't let them get a good view of what they're doing), or around some of the larger indoor areas (I had to redo the nude section 10 times because I kept being seen by enemies who were behind me, and I would've been able to see them coming if I could just shift the camera around every once in a while).

    That's what the radar is for, dude. Use that in conjunction with what you see on screen and you're good to go in not being found by enemies. The jumping is ridiculous, but it was only in like 2 parts and if you failed it dropped you right back at that point.

    shark2.jpg
    XBL - Follow Freeman
  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I really don't care about the stories of the B&B squad. I just thought it was completely stupid how Drebin would jump on the codec after you fight them and blabber on about their pasts for 20 minutes.

    Why does Drebin know this stuff? Why would Snake care?

    I find the deathbed monologues slightly more acceptable because, well, they're right there and they're dying and Snake is going to be a nice guy and listen to what they have to say before they croak. But who gives a shit when Drebin comes on the line, all "oh by the way..."

    Also, I do hate the ending of MGS2 and feel that is part of the reason MGS4's plot was such shit. I was okay with Raiden as a character, and the gameplay of MGS2 was fantastic, but Rose was shit and the ending was shit and Vamp was shit. So don't get it into your head that I'm praising MGS2 over 4.

  • never dienever die Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Reznik wrote: »
    I really don't care about the stories of the B&B squad. I just thought it was completely stupid how Drebin would jump on the codec after you fight them and blabber on about their pasts for 20 minutes.

    Why does Drebin know this stuff? Why would Snake care?

    I find the deathbed monologues slightly more acceptable because, well, they're right there and they're dying and Snake is going to be a nice guy and listen to what they have to say before they croak. But who gives a shit when Drebin comes on the line, all "oh by the way..."

    Also, I do hate the ending of MGS2 and feel that is part of the reason MGS4's plot was such shit. I was okay with Raiden as a character, and the gameplay of MGS2 was fantastic, but Rose was shit and the ending was shit and Vamp was shit. So don't get it into your head that I'm praising MGS2 over 4.

    I do agree that it would have been better if Drebin was an optional call that you could have had about that.

    Then we have less to disagree about, as I feel that MGS3 had one of the more well put together plots of the series, I found it to be the least confusing. I didn't think any of the endings were bad, but I find 2 to be the worst of all of them, and the least emotional for me. MGS1 had me almost in tears( I also got the Otacon ending), 3 had me feeling down for John, and 4 gave this big sense of closure. 2 though, I was sitting there going what? the whole time. You can only be lied to so many times before you say screw it.

    Spoiler:
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2009
    Noone ever could match up to Foxhound. The B&B needed enhanced ninja-style suits, Vamp was just a fucking freak and kinda stupid, Dead Cell were all fairly basic, I mean without her field Fortune is pretty much a goner adn Fatman? Jesus.

    Foxhound were all the best of the best, elite freaks which makes the current Foxhound look like a joke. The bosses are the most fun to look forward to in MGS games and considering none have lived up to the first set, its kinda disappointing.

    ...it's in the shape of a giant c**k.
  • xWonderboyxxWonderboyx Registered User
    edited March 2009
    Noone ever could match up to Foxhound. The B&B needed enhanced ninja-style suits, Vamp was just a fucking freak and kinda stupid, Dead Cell were all fairly basic, I mean without her field Fortune is pretty much a goner adn Fatman? Jesus.

    Foxhound were all the best of the best, elite freaks which makes the current Foxhound look like a joke. The bosses are the most fun to look forward to in MGS games and considering none have lived up to the first set, its kinda disappointing.

    Dude, what the hell? Fatman had roller blades! That makes him more of a freak than any of the fox hound guys.

    I kid, I kid.

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  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    The Cobras are about equal in my mind with FOXHOUND.

    Better fights though Raven/The Fury is debatable, with FOXHOUND being more interesting (Joy and Sorrow excluded) character wise.

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  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2009
    They're equal in that they're the elite of their time but each member of Foxhound is significantly unique and stands out as an individual with decent personality and memorable character.

    The Cobras on the other hand are interesting enough but nothing particularly special, theyre little more than obstacles stopping you getting to the main interesting character, Boss. The End is a fun fight for instance but we know nothing much about him and tehres no drama or anything in killing him.

    ...it's in the shape of a giant c**k.
  • never dienever die Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    They're equal in that they're the elite of their time but each member of Foxhound is significantly unique and stands out as an individual with decent personality and memorable character.

    The Cobras on the other hand are interesting enough but nothing particularly special, theyre little more than obstacles stopping you getting to the main interesting character, Boss. The End is a fun fight for instance but we know nothing much about him and tehres no drama or anything in killing him.

    I actually liked that though. Not every opponent do you need to know their life's story. Some are just there to fight and be professional, which the Cobras did. Besides, if they would have tried to match up to Foxhound, it would have failed. Foxhound was a unique group that would be hard to top.

    Spoiler:
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited March 2009
    I think thats because the Cobras didn't have any real past trauma or distaste for war, they were soldiers through and through. Fury had been driven insane sure but the rest were just loyal soldiers there to do their duty and enjoy it.

    Most of Foxhound had some kind of trauma in their background and while they didn't dislike the conflict they were thrust into they weren't all born soldiers. Like Mantis, he went nuts after hearing the thoughts of how his own father hated him and Wolf seemed to be lost without Big Boss(I think it was Big Boss), she had no passion but to find death in battle and Raven just was looking for that same kind of challenge. And Liquid had his inferiority complex but he himself revelled in conflict because of who his 'father' was.

    And Ninja...well Ninja was Ninja.

    ...it's in the shape of a giant c**k.
  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow YRP...in position It's showtime, girls.Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    The Cobras are about equal in my mind with FOXHOUND.

    Better fights though Raven/The Fury is debatable, with FOXHOUND being more interesting (Joy and Sorrow excluded) character wise.

    Please don't lump Raven in with The Fury. Raven's fights were super-enjoyable.

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  • xWonderboyxxWonderboyx Registered User
    edited March 2009
    The Cobras are about equal in my mind with FOXHOUND.

    Better fights though Raven/The Fury is debatable, with FOXHOUND being more interesting (Joy and Sorrow excluded) character wise.

    Please don't lump Raven in with The Fury. Raven's fights were super-enjoyable.
    Raven wrote:
    Ha ha ha ha ha... That's right, you belong on the ground. You
    should crawl on the ground like the Snake you are.

    His fights were fun, but dude has some seriously bad lines.

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