Don't like the snow? You can make a bookmark with the following text instead of a url: javascript:snowStorm.toggleSnow(). Clicking it will toggle the snow on and off.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

Culdcept Saga, or, AI is a Cheating Whore!

Dr. Phibbs McAtheyDr. Phibbs McAthey Registered User regular
edited July 2008 in Games and Technology
So I've been playing a lot of Culdcept Saga, and it's been popping up here and there in random threads lately, and I have seen no other dedicated thread for it, so here it goes!

So what is Culdcept? It would take too long to explain everything myself, other than the most basic description of 'Magic the Gathering + Monopoly = Fun!' which isn't 100% accurate. From the wikipedia article:
Gameplay
As in Monopoly, players in Culdcept Saga roll a die and move around a game board, attempting to claim spaces and assess fees against other Cepters who land there. Unlike Monopoly, squares are claimed by summoning creatures to guard them, and players who land on them can opt to challenge this creature with one of their own rather than pay the toll. If successful, the challenger claims ownership of the square. The winner of the game is the first player to return to the starting location after amassing a sufficient quantity of magic/mana.

Cards

Creatures are summoned from customized decks ("books") of cards which players design ahead of time from their available pool of cards. Other cards in these decks bestow items to temporarily enhance creature abilities, or represent spells which can influence players or locations on the game board. The standard gameplay options fix the size of each deck at 50 cards, although this is customizable during multiplayer matches.

There are nearly 500 different cards in total, but players must earn the majority of these through skillful play and story mode progression before they can be used. Cards are earned simply for completing a match, regardless of whether one wins or loses, although the winner earns a greater number of cards than the opponent(s).

Strategy

While the game relies somewhat heavily on luck[2], strategy and planning play a strong role as well. Players have a choice over what cards make up their decks, as well as when to play those cards. The squares in the game consist of different terrain or elemental types (fire, forest, water, or wind), and the defensive capabilities of creatures can be bolstered by deploying them on an aligned square. Several more powerful creatures can only be summoned when a certain number of squares of a given terrain type are already controlled.

Players must also decide when to upgrade the squares which they currently control. Upgraded squares exact higher magic toll rates than non-upgraded squares when opponents land there.

Some things that aren't covered by what I quoted: You can customize your avatar's appearance by doing specific things in story mode or in Versus matches versus story mode characters (in fact for some of them that's the only way you're going to do them). The story in Story Mode is atrocious, as is the voice acting. I mean, it's a story about people who have 'epic battles' in the form of a board game, how good can it be? I hear that the manga is much better but I can't comment on that.
Also, a minor thing that confuses some people: Even with the superior translation of the 360 version, there are still some things that don't make too much sense, such as how the game uses the terms gold, magic, and mana interchangeably to indicate the same thing.

Screenshots!
Culdcept_Saga_Screenshot.jpg
A typical Card and description

Culdcept-Saga-5.jpg
It may look like this Sprite just got proper fucked, but no! Her ability is to neutralize creatures with MHP (I don't even understand how the hell it works other than that it's a number on the card) higher than 40. If I remember correctly.

Culdcept-Saga-6.jpg
Here we see our hero receiving moneys/mana/magic from the gods, in a map most Culdcept players have seen far too much of, Santana Village. It's the first map in every Culdcept game and it never changes other than the background. 4 player matches here are a bitch, taking as long as up to 4 hours. In my experience.

Culdcept-Saga-8.jpg
Another battle shot. Lizardman just jacked that Red Ogre (or Rogre as I call them)

culdcept_sagaavatar.jpg
A menu shot of someone picking out Avatar parts. I'm not sure why his face is all greyed out, it doesn't do that in mine.


So one thing that Saga has over previous versions is online multiplayer, which works for the most part pretty well. One person sets up the match, and if you're just wanting to play with friends, you set the match type from Ranked to Private, and invite your buddies. Yes, there is ranked multiplayer, but if the forums dedicated to Culdcept are any indication of the current state of things, I couldn't hope to touch most of the strategies they employ.

So what's the thread for? I don't know, talk about Culdcept, strategies, set up online matches with each other, or even talk about the upcoming (hopefully) DS iteration of the series, which is looking like sex on a stick.

I can even make a list of gamertags here of current Culdcept players (Cepters?...Nahhhh) if anyone wants to get some [Game On!] on.

My tag is DrPhibbs, if anyone wants to play.

Also! For those of you without 360s and still wanting to get in on this, there is a PS2 version with scads of animated sprites to choose from rather than avatar customization and no online multiplayer. This is the iteration of the series I cut my Culdcept teeth on and is a blast to play with a group of friends. Single player is still pretty shoddy as far as storyline goes but it's the only way to get the coveted E cards that will have your friends throwing blunt objects at you because your E card is more awesome than all of theirs combined. Or something.

Dr. Phibbs McAthey on
«1

Posts

  • InzignaInzigna Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Is it good? Or is it only good for card-game lovers?

    camo_sig2.png
  • Dr. Phibbs McAtheyDr. Phibbs McAthey Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I love it personally, and I've gotten about a dozen of my friends, of which maybe 2 of them are or were card game players, hopelessly addicted. So I'd say it's good on its own merits.

  • chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I love this game but I swear the AI cheats. There have been more times then I care to count that I land on a level 5 land with kick ass creature surrounded on all sides by nothing when I was a half lap away from winning.

    The only other downside is that playing against a person can take forwever. It is not uncommon for a 2 person game to last over an hour.

    The list never changes: http://www.infinitebacklog.com
    Chamberlain.jpg
  • Lord JezoLord Jezo Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Don't forget that the almost exact same game exists for the PS2 for those sans 360s.

    nagatosig1.jpg
    I KISS YOU!
  • Dr. Phibbs McAtheyDr. Phibbs McAthey Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Lord Jezo wrote: »
    Don't forget that the almost exact same game exists for the PS2 for those sans 360s.

    Ah, yes, I own that one too. All of the above applies except for avatar customization and online multiplayer. Guess I could add that in there.

  • apotheosapotheos Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited June 2008
    I love the sound of it, but I'm so glad I tried the demo. I could hardly complete a game on that, so I know the retail game would rot on my shelves. The temptation is still there, but I shall resist.



    猿も木から落ちる
  • BamelinBamelin Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    My big problem with Culdcept is that aside from the most basic maps, it takes a LONG time to finish a match (we're talking 3 + hours in some cases).

    Depending on your personal situation this may be a very good thing or a very bad thing. For me, there's just too many other games to be played to be able to sink that much time into the game.

    With that said, the game is alot of fun and feeds all the things I love about CCG's minus the massive financial investment. If you like CCG's it's a great title and definately worth the budget price. Here is a review I did back when it hit.

  • Lord JezoLord Jezo Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Bamelin wrote: »
    My big problem with Culdcept is that aside from the most basic maps, it takes a LONG time to finish a match (we're talking 3 + hours in some cases).

    The worst is when you spend over an hour on a match only to lose and then have to do it again.

    That is what broke me.

    nagatosig1.jpg
    I KISS YOU!
  • Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I tried so, so hard to enjoy this game.

    So hard

    I'm going to trade it into Gamestop soon with Eternal Sonata for Mass Effect.

    camo_sig2.png
  • Dr. Phibbs McAtheyDr. Phibbs McAthey Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Lord Jezo wrote: »
    Bamelin wrote: »
    My big problem with Culdcept is that aside from the most basic maps, it takes a LONG time to finish a match (we're talking 3 + hours in some cases).

    The worst is when you spend over an hour on a match only to lose and then have to do it again.

    That is what broke me.

    It takes a little bit of the edge off when you lose and still get some new cards. Or repeats of cards you already had, for good or ill.

    I hate when you think you've got a level 5 all well protected, there is NO way it can be beaten. Then, hey look, the AI comes along with a card that totally ignores your leveled land HP bonus AND all of the defensive items in the game that don't say 'Blocks a scroll', of which there is only one that I know of.

    Yeah, I'll agree that the AI cheats.

  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    [EDIT]: Can a mod change the title to just Culdcept Saga or something more clever? Not sure how to change thread titles. Hm.

    Click Edit on the first post. Click "Go Advanced." Change thread title. Profit.

    Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
    Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
  • FiskebentFiskebent Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Not out in Europe yet. And probably never will be. And the NTSC version is region locked. Yay.

    steam_sig.png
  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    MHP means "Max HP" is is the maximum amount of HP a card can have.

    SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
    lTDyp.jpg
  • anti-everythinganti-everything Registered User
    edited June 2008
    The matches are indeed way too long, but it's a whole lot of fun if you have the time and want to spend it this way.

    550191-1.png
  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Don't fuck with a witch Time to go VROOM!Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I absolutely loved Culdcept Saga. It's one of the few reasons I'm sad I didn't keep my 360, but the PS2 version is more than enough to suffice. I was lucky enough to find a used copy in a mom-and-pop rental chain for $6 in near-perfect condition a few years ago, and I've been hooked ever since.

    XbJml1e.jpg?1
    I feel like a fucking celebrity in this town! | PSN: UnbreakableVow | Wii U: UnbreakableVow26
  • ChalkbotChalkbot Registered User
    edited June 2008
    I own this game, I bought it when it came out. I still have not played it because I don't have a 360, and I don't know anyone who has one. Hmmm.

  • MrFancyPantsMrFancyPants Registered User
    edited June 2008
    Has anyone heard of Culdcept (or anything similar to it, I am such a sucker for card-based games with collection elements) going on the DS? I know there's supposed to be something this year in 2008, but localization to the US may not be in the cards. Yes, I went there.

    Anyway, not an attempt at thread jacking, just curious if anyone's seen something in this vein in a portable variety. Seems like the DS would be all up in this sort of thing. I have the PS2 version, but honestly, my work and family time does not lend itself well to sit-down consoles lately :(

  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I got this game from gamefly a few days ago. Played it about an hour, but couldn't take it anymore. I can't even beat the first fucking tutorial stage. Bitch always gets every good card, and I get stuck with that fucking squirrel/rat.

    God damn it's frustrating. But other than that it's pretty cool. :P

  • Dr. Phibbs McAtheyDr. Phibbs McAthey Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    urahonky wrote: »
    I got this game from gamefly a few days ago. Played it about an hour, but couldn't take it anymore. I can't even beat the first fucking tutorial stage. Bitch always gets every good card, and I get stuck with that fucking squirrel/rat.

    God damn it's frustrating. But other than that it's pretty cool. :P

    Squirrine is actually pretty sweet if you use it correctly, it's Support, meaning you can use other creatures as items in battle, adding their HP and ST to its base stats. I have a problem with this myself, but try and stick it out, even if you lose, you still get cards. My friends all give me a hard time about it because they're like, 'Dude, you could have so many more cards if you would just stick through a game for once'. It's a pride thing. No other game can get me swearing up a storm like Culdcept when I'm playing Single player.


    As far as the DS one, the only news so far is that it's basically a remake of the original game, which was only in Japan on the...PSX? The sprites are being redone, and the rules and cards are being updated to be current with Saga. Also the Japanese release date is late 2008, so maybe sometime next year? Probably safer to assume 2010 for us though. I can see a lot of the gameplay being streamlined through use of the touch screen. No more d-padding through all of your properties and the wonky map screen. It would also add an element of surprise if they opt not to let you see your opponent's cards, or at least have the option.

  • Dr. Phibbs McAtheyDr. Phibbs McAthey Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Yeah, the statement made in the thread title stands. I've been setting up versus matches against story mode characters that should be cake, but yeah. Cheating whores and whatnot. I chucked a controller. I've not done that in years. Years.

  • B:LB:L Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    First thought: Why the hell can't I make a female avatar?

    10mvrci.png click for Anime chat
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    B:L wrote: »
    First thought: Why the hell can't I make a female avatar?

    Because the voice acting is a guy. :P They didn't want to pay for another person.

  • B:LB:L Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    urahonky wrote: »
    B:L wrote: »
    First thought: Why the hell can't I make a female avatar?

    Because the voice acting is a guy. :P They didn't want to pay for another person.

    Now I have to stick with the PS2 version if I wanted to make Najaran. :|

    10mvrci.png click for Anime chat
  • Dr. Phibbs McAtheyDr. Phibbs McAthey Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I can't remember, isn't there a way to make a female avatar after you beat the game?

  • mwoodymwoody Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Oh god, not this crap again. THE CULDCEPT AI DOES NOT CHEAT. Ever. It has no access to the rolls; the programmers posted the code for their random number generator on a Japanese-language board because so many people kept whining about it. And every single time I get in a forum war over it, it comes down to the same thing: I tell them to sit down and actually tally rolls to see if they follow a statistical norm (spoiler: they do.) I had one kid tell me that the AI only cheated "sometimes," specifically any time he wasn't recording data (upgrading them from "cheating" to "psychic.")

    Now, that out of the way, this game is indeed fantastic. Unfortunately, the online experience is marred by:

    a) a lack of online opponents, meaning you can only really play around 3pm when kids get out of school
    b) games take a really long time to complete(I don't have a problem with it normally, but in multiplayer when you know you're going to lose it's pretty rough to keep playing for an hour)
    c) it handles dropped connections very strangely. If someone drops connection, it will tell everyone that they've dropped and replace them with a 'bot. Which is fine, except from that player's point of view, the other players dropped. I've had games just mysteriously "split" down the middle, leaving us to discover via voice chat that 2 of us are playing one game while the other 2 are playing another ("Hahaha, landing on my level 5 space, huh?" "What the hell are you talking about? I landed on the castle.")

    None of which stops it from being a very solid single player game, mind you. I recommend setting up a TV or DVD player to watch while playing, though, as it can at times move very slowly.

    Steam: mwoody450
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    No it definitely cheats mwoody. You're a dirty liar.

  • chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    HE IS THE AI.

    <<
    >>

    The list never changes: http://www.infinitebacklog.com
    Chamberlain.jpg
  • Dr. Phibbs McAtheyDr. Phibbs McAthey Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    It makes us feel better to think that the AI cheats.

    It could be argued that the rate at which they move through cards without letting you read wtf it is, perfect knowledge of what boosts, unit abilities, item abilities, spells, and instants are active in any battle, as well as perfect knowledge of what you have in your hand at all times, could be considered a form of cheating. I like to think of it that way at least. I don't like to think that when I set up a versus match to farm avatar parts against a crappy story AI which is set up specifically to fuck the other character over, it's either blind-ass bad luck or total lack of skill on my part that I've lost the last 6 matches in a row.

    That is to say, long story short, I got baited into using an item because I thought the AI was going to use a scroll it had in its hand, which it didn't, which allowed it to take a level 4 land, and subsequently use my total lack of a defense against scrolls on the next round to take a level 5. So I feel like a dumbass and it makes me feel better to believe the AI cheats. Happy?

  • mwoodymwoody Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Fair enough. ^_^ I played it obsessively, as with the first one, so after a while I tend to forget that before you recognize cards on sight it can be a pain in the ass.

    Incidentally, before someone tries to argue that the AI fixes rolls by reloading a save game and watching the AI land in exactly the same places: the game preserves the random seed for the dice with the save. The rolls are indeed random, but they're going to be the same if you reload. In practice, it's like they made a list of random numbers before the match began.

    Sorry if I sound defensive, but arguing the finer points of an RNG and the nature of true randomness with prepubescents on gamefaqs' message boards has driven me to distraction in the past.

    Steam: mwoody450
  • B:LB:L Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    mwoody wrote: »
    Fair enough. ^_^ I played it obsessively, as with the first one, so after a while I tend to forget that before you recognize cards on sight it can be a pain in the ass.

    Incidentally, before someone tries to argue that the AI fixes rolls by reloading a save game and watching the AI land in exactly the same places: the game preserves the random seed for the dice with the save. The rolls are indeed random, but they're going to be the same if you reload. In practice, it's like they made a list of random numbers before the match began.

    Sorry if I sound defensive, but arguing the finer points of an RNG and the nature of true randomness with prepubescents on gamefaqs' message boards has driven me to distraction in the past.

    The AI cheats.

    10mvrci.png click for Anime chat
  • chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Next he'll tell us that the final boss in Puzzle Quest doesn't cheat.

    :P

    The list never changes: http://www.infinitebacklog.com
    Chamberlain.jpg
  • Undead MonkeyUndead Monkey Anchorage, AKRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I picked this up at Gamestop when I purchased Civ: Rev yesterday. It was mainly an impulse buy, but I'm glad I did; my fiancee' and I had a blast with the demo. Now that I think about it, I'm honestly not sure what took me so long to pick it up.

    It might be awhile 'til I play, though, as Civ: Rev is so, so addictive.

    my schadenfreude boner is h4rd enuff to cut hyperdiamond
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I picked this up at Gamestop when I purchased Civ: Rev yesterday. It was mainly an impulse buy, but I'm glad I did; my fiancee' and I had a blast with the demo. Now that I think about it, I'm honestly not sure what took me so long to pick it up.

    It might be awhile 'til I play, though, as Civ: Rev is so, so addictive.

    If you beat the first level I will punch you in the nuts. I've tried 3 times and failed. :( I just suck.

  • Undead MonkeyUndead Monkey Anchorage, AKRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    urahonky wrote: »
    I picked this up at Gamestop when I purchased Civ: Rev yesterday. It was mainly an impulse buy, but I'm glad I did; my fiancee' and I had a blast with the demo. Now that I think about it, I'm honestly not sure what took me so long to pick it up.

    It might be awhile 'til I play, though, as Civ: Rev is so, so addictive.

    If you beat the first level I will punch you in the nuts. I've tried 3 times and failed. :( I just suck.

    Ouch. I've only played with the SO, so I wasn't aware it was like that. Is the game just overly hard or is the "randomness" too random to allow for strategic gameplay?

    my schadenfreude boner is h4rd enuff to cut hyperdiamond
  • zeppelinzeppelin Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Uhm, this may have been answered... not sure... can you play offline competitive multiplayer? If so, how many players?

    Is it fun if you do?

    Spoiler:
  • JohnHamJohnHam Famous Actor Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I picked this up at Gamestop when I purchased Civ: Rev yesterday. It was mainly an impulse buy, but I'm glad I did; my fiancee' and I had a blast with the demo. Now that I think about it, I'm honestly not sure what took me so long to pick it up.

    It might be awhile 'til I play, though, as Civ: Rev is so, so addictive.

    Serrrrrriously. I have had Saga for a while, and nobody to play it with, and this thread appears now?

    I guess that's OK but goddamn too much strategizin'

  • GoodOmensGoodOmens Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Dammit, where's the DS love? Or PC, for that matter? I loved Culdcept on the PS2, but I'm not about to buy a 360 just for this.

    This would be an ideal DS game.

    steam_sig.png
    IOS Game Center ID: Isotope-X
  • JCRooksJCRooks Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Culdecept Saga is a blessed little game. And surprisingly long too.

    Anyway, the AI doesn't cheat, but it is frustratingly difficult at the beginning of the game. I also failed the demo first level many, many times before I got the hang of it and the luck to beat it. Later on in the game, as you start accumulating more cards and things like symbols open up, the game becomes a lot easier. At least for me it did. I don't think I ever lost a game after some brutal beginning battles.

    I'd be happy to give some tips in this thread to those who need it. Also, the other Culdcept Saga thread had plenty of help that got me through the game initially.

    BTW - The buzz around AI cheating claims is funny and nostalgic. I worked on a backgammon game many moons ago that became rather popular with users, although some swore that the game was "broken" because people or the AI were cheating and rolling doubles a lot more often "than normal". Of course we looked through the game many times and confirmed there was no hacking or cheating that was going on ... just plain old luck. Same thing has been claimed for Puzzle Quest and countless other games too.

    Xbox LIVE, Steam, Twitter, etc. ...
    Spoiler:
  • Undead MonkeyUndead Monkey Anchorage, AKRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    zeppelin wrote: »
    Uhm, this may have been answered... not sure... can you play offline competitive multiplayer? If so, how many players?

    Is it fun if you do?

    Yep, and I'm pretty sure it is up to 4 players offline, if I'm not mistaken. At least 2 for sure, because that is how my fiancee' and I play. The way the game is set up, there really is no advantage/disadvantage to knowing what the other player has in their hand, so it works great if everyone is playing on the same console together.

    my schadenfreude boner is h4rd enuff to cut hyperdiamond
  • EliteBattlemanEliteBattleman Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I recently started playing this again and have been looking for brave souls for online play.

    Any takers?

    Also, is there any way to trade cards with people? I desperately need more Hive Workers.

    This is my sig.
    There are many others like it, but this one is mine.
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.