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The American Presidency: This Thread Is 'Inartful'.

tuxkamentuxkamen Registered User regular
edited July 2008 in Debate and/or Discourse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTSLBjA2R0w
First Read wrote:
He did not answer the first part of the question directly and later Obama, who said he had not spoken with Clark, seemed to bristle when asked why he had not talked with him and whether he felt the former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO owed McCain an apology, suggesting voters had more pressing matters on their minds.

"I guess my question is why, given all the vast numbers of things that we've got to work on, that that would be a top priority of mine?” he said. “I think that, you know, right now we're here to talk about how we can make sure that kids in Zanesville and across Ohio get the kind of support that they need and communities that are impoverished can start to rebuild. I'm happy to have all sorts of conversations about how we deal with Iraq and what happens with Iran, but the fact that somebody on a cable show or on a news show like Gen. Clark said something that was inartful about Sen. McCain I don’t think is probably the thing that is keeping Ohioans up at night."

And from Connecticut via kos:

Do you approve or disapprove of the way Joseph Lieberman is handling his job as United States senator?

Approve 45 (52)
Disapprove 43 (35)

That's a 15-point downward swing in support, from +17 approval to +2.

The crosstabs:
[FONT=Courier New]            Tot  Rep  Dem  Ind [/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New]Approve     45   70   26   47 [/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New]Disapprove  43   18   62   39[/FONT]

Post edited by tuxkamen on

Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
Spoiler:
3DS: 2406-5451-5770
«13456763

Comments

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I claim the first post in the name of Canada!

    0511-0712-0716-4637.jpg

    RichyFlag.gifsig.gif
  • KageraKagera Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Kagera wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Kagera wrote: »
    Hey who's that general that was like the big shot head for Iraq and Afghanistan and was basically forced to resign because of his disagreement with the Bush Administration over Iran?
    Which one?

    Fixed.

    Though I presume he's referring to Adm. Fallon

    Yeah that's the guy.

    Let's get him to run for VP.

    Or that Colonel that came back from Iraq and ran for senate as a Democrat but the DNC was like 'no screw you' and he went on the Daily Show.

    Dammit I have his name on the tip of my tongue.

    You're referring to Paul Hackett oh Ohio, who should be in public service, but making the leap to VP is kind of silly.

    Oh come on, he chased down some guys who had crashed into his fence with an AR-15.

    NOW THAT'S cross party appeal.

    “This is America. We’re entitled to our opinions.”
    “Wrong. This is Texas. And my opinion is the only one that counts."
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Surely, but still: take what's his face the repellent Ohio Senator's seat first.

    Voinovich.

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • ZoolanderZoolander Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Fist pound is the new high five.
    bushfistbump.jpg


    Aaand 'inartful' is the new 'dumb'.

  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Zoolander wrote: »
    Fist pound is the new high five.
    bushfistbump.jpg


    Aaand 'inartful' is the new 'dumb'.
    George W. Bush is doing a terrorist fist jab!

    I have a blog. Read it. Blog-reading makes you pretty and popular.
  • KageraKagera Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    What about...Cindy Sheehan?

    “This is America. We’re entitled to our opinions.”
    “Wrong. This is Texas. And my opinion is the only one that counts."
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Kagera wrote: »
    What about...Cindy Sheehan?

    OK, now you're just being silly.

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • KageraKagera Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Kagera wrote: »
    What about...Cindy Sheehan?

    OK, now you're just being silly.

    Yeah I got nothing.

    “This is America. We’re entitled to our opinions.”
    “Wrong. This is Texas. And my opinion is the only one that counts."
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Really, does the VP need to shore up Obama's foreign policy? He's ahead of McCain on Iraq, though just barely, and can easily get more hard line in terms of what we should be doing and where McCain was, is, and will be wrong when it comes to that. Economics, though, are going to remain higher than Iraq come November because any collapse in the semi-order that exists in Baghdad will push oil prices higher, pushing equities down more, and making things seem just really damn shitty. It will also point to Obama's strength in Iraq given that McCain is tied to the surge's 'success' and so it failing to improve matters will make withdrawal that much more desirable.

    McCain's VP is going to be economics strong since that is a perceived weakness of his that he can't shake, so whoever Obama picks is going to need to be able to go toe to toe with that guy in a debate as well as in an attack dog role to ensure that Laffer Curve, Laffer Curve, olol doesn't fly.

    tea-1.jpg
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited July 2008
    Poll'd.

    Let it be known I don't really like any of these options.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • ZoolanderZoolander Registered User
    edited July 2008
    I'm glad Obama is sticking up for Clark though. Dude didn't do nuthin wrong.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Zoolander wrote: »
    Fist pound is the new high five.
    bushfistbump.jpg


    Aaand 'inartful' is the new 'dumb'.

    What the hell does a green wristband represent?

    And why do people still wear wristbands?

    tea-1.jpg
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Poll'd.

    Let it be known I don't really like any of these options.

    Who had you been supporting previously?

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Zoolander wrote: »
    I'm glad Obama is sticking up for Clark though. Dude didn't do nuthin wrong.

    Kinesleyan gaffes are still gaffes.

    tea-1.jpg
  • ZoolanderZoolander Registered User
    edited July 2008
    moniker wrote: »
    Zoolander wrote: »
    Fist pound is the new high five.
    bushfistbump.jpg


    Aaand 'inartful' is the new 'dumb'.

    What the hell does a green wristband represent?

    And why do people still wear wristbands?

    Don't diss wristbands
    1525514406_0a7cb4bb2e.jpg

  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous WALK 3X FASTER New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    moniker wrote: »
    Zoolander wrote: »
    Fist pound is the new high five.
    bushfistbump.jpg


    Aaand 'inartful' is the new 'dumb'.

    What the hell does a green wristband represent?

    And why do people still wear wristbands?
    Facestrong wristbands.

    They're really catching on.

    zaku.png
    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: WaffleMous#1483
  • ElldrenElldren 3067-6294-6208Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Poll'd.

    Let it be known I don't really like any of these options.

    At least you spelled Sebelius's name correctly, as mtv seems incapable of doing.

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited July 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Poll'd.

    Let it be known I don't really like any of these options.

    Who had you been supporting previously?

    Schwietzer. Webb before his chicks-in-the-military comments were released. I still like Clark, but that won't happen now.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Zoolander wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Zoolander wrote: »
    Fist pound is the new high five.
    bushfistbump.jpg


    Aaand 'inartful' is the new 'dumb'.

    What the hell does a green wristband represent?

    And why do people still wear wristbands?

    Don't diss wristbands
    1525514406_0a7cb4bb2e.jpg

    Man that is one messed up looking token.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Good choice, he's my #2.

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Elldren wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Poll'd.

    Let it be known I don't really like any of these options.

    At least you spelled Sebelius's name correctly, as mtv seems incapable of doing.
    Whether I can spell her name right or not, let it be known my vote now lies with Governor Supeleeus.

    I have a blog. Read it. Blog-reading makes you pretty and popular.
  • ZephyrZephyr Registered User
    edited July 2008
    does CT have recall elections for senators or do we have to wait until like

    what is it, 2010?

    16kakxt.jpg
  • ElkiElki hegemon globalSuper Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited July 2008
    It's time for Joe to make his move! He's been bidin' his time.

  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Okay, finally home.

    On Clark: It's not hypocritical for him to have praised Kerry's service in 2004 and said that McCain's service doesn't apply to being president because he's talking about two seperate things. He freely acknowledges that military experiences grant character and courage that are things that are looked for by voters. In that way, both Kerry and McCain's military experiences are applicable. The very narrow focus that Clark was actually embracing (and doing a horrible job of enunciating) is that McCain is touting his POW-dom as a factor to his credit in strategic and foreign policy decisions, and Clark is explaining that you only earn that particular sort of XP from theatre-level command, such as General Clark had, where you're pushing cool little miniatures around on a map and deciding what troops need to be put in danger and what local warlords need to be appeased so that all the missions get accomplished. It's clear to me that he's taking on the specific claim that McCain touts, not his overall experience.

    On faith-based initiatives: Some clarification is in order. The government money is only usable for the specific charitable programs, and any human resources hired out of the government's money pot cannot be hired based on faith or lack of same. If an athiest is clearly best for the job, and Those Fucking Unitarians hire a Unitarian for their gay & lesbian outreach program, then the athiest can petition the Office of Faith-Based Initiatives to investigate and rectify the situation. The money also cannot be used for proselytization purposes. The reason the Bush OoF-BI sucked is because it had no oversight and they were using it to give handouts to Bush-serving fundie wack-jobs like Sun Myung Moon (the money probably went to prop up the Washington Times, now that I think about it). I seem to remember that David Kuo had an awesome appearance on The Daily Show about this stuff. If Obama fixes the office and implements the level of transparency that he's (ahem) clearly interested in implementing, it will be fucking difficult for a cloned Cheney homonculus or whatever the Republicans send up to the White House next to dismantle without looking extra, extra sketchy.

    The benefit of using churches is that it utilizes existing infrastructure, so it's cost-effective. We like cost-effective, yes? Also, y'all don't seem to be up-in-arms over the fact that churches are already essentially subsidized by the government because they pay no taxes.

    Finally, in closing...
    Spoiler:

    Gary Gygax wrote:
    ''The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules.''
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Zephyr wrote: »
    does CT have recall elections for senators or do we have to wait until like

    what is it, 2010?

    2012

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • ZephyrZephyr Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Zephyr wrote: »
    does CT have recall elections for senators or do we have to wait until like

    what is it, 2010?

    2012

    gayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

    16kakxt.jpg
  • BitstreamBitstream Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Heh, a kid I work with gave me a fist-bump earlier today, and when I said "oh no, now we're terrorists!" he was confused. I explained to him the whole terrorist-fist-jab hullabaloo, and he said to me, in all seriousness, "well, we don't really know. I mean, he claims to be a Christian, but he was raised a Muslim. Who knows what he was taught."

    My urge to kill was held back only by the knowledge that he wasn't old enough to vote yet.

    I'm getting so burned out on politics; any time someone brings up the subject I end up spending 90% of the conversation correcting misinformation and outright ignorance. I guess I should be happy that people are actively seeking me out as a source of political knowledge, but god dammit people can we talk about something other than omg-secret-muslim?

    I hate living in west Michigan [strike]sometimes[/strike] pretty much all the time. I can only hope the level of discussion around here goes up a few notches once the campaign season is in full swing.

    [Edit] - I switched my vote from Richardson in the last round to Sebelius in this one. For some stupid reason I can't put my finger on, I reallly like Bill Richardson even though I disagree with him on several big points. I wish I knew what it was so I could purge it from my brain and embrace the cold unfeeling logic that tells me I agree with Sebelius more.

  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    The Wesley Clark Hyperventorama, courtesy of TPM: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/202341.php

    This video really puts into perspective a few things:
    1) The MSM really, really hates down time
    2) Military fetishism in this country is really out of hand
    3) Republicans (and really, a lot of MSM talking heads) need to learn to read and/or completely listen to people, and maybe try not thinking the worst of people.
    4) Where the fuck is this so-called liberal media when you need it?
    5) McCainophiles are really scared of people getting the main idea of Clark's statement in their heads.

    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Okay, looks like it might be a lymphoma wristband.

    lymphomaband_sm.jpg

    And, seriously, there are way too many causes with wristbands. I'm surprised I don't have one that donates money to me to help pay for gas, food, and games.

    tea-1.jpg
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Elki wrote: »
    It's time for Joe to make his move! He's been bidin' his time.

    I hate to admit thats what prompted me to vote for joe this go round.

  • redxredx East Bumblefuck, PARegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Limed for lymphoma?

    All I've got is a snuggle hammer.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    wwtMask wrote: »
    The Wesley Clark Hyperventorama, courtesy of TPM: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/202341.php

    This video really puts into perspective a few things:
    1) The MSM really, really hates down time
    2) Military fetishism in this country is really out of hand
    3) Republicans (and really, a lot of MSM talking heads) need to learn to read and/or completely listen to people, and maybe try not thinking the worst of people.
    4) Where the fuck is this so-called liberal media when you need it?
    5) McCainophiles are really scared of people getting the main idea of Clark's statement in their heads.

    I was about to post that. Yay media!

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Bitstream wrote: »
    Heh, a kid I work with gave me a fist-bump earlier today, and when I said "oh no, now we're terrorists!" he was confused. I explained to him the whole terrorist-fist-jab hullabaloo, and he said to me, in all seriousness, "well, we don't really know. I mean, he claims to be a Christian, but he was raised a Muslim. Who knows what he was taught."

    My urge to kill was held back only by the knowledge that he wasn't old enough to vote yet.

    I'm getting so burned out on politics; any time someone brings up the subject I end up spending 90% of the conversation correcting misinformation and outright ignorance. I guess I should be happy that people are actively seeking me out as a source of political knowledge, but god dammit people can we talk about something other than omg-secret-muslim?

    I hate living in west Michigan [strike]sometimes[/strike] pretty much all the time. I can only hope the level of discussion around here goes up a few notches once the campaign season is in full swing.

    The fact that being a muslim is considered a negative at all is probably the most discouraging aspect of it. It shouldn't fucking matter in the first place, but oh noes terrorist cells in the legislature!!! Grah!

    tea-1.jpg
  • DeaconBluesDeaconBlues __BANNED USERS
    edited July 2008
    wwtMask wrote: »
    3) Republicans (and really, a lot of MSM talking heads) need to learn to read and/or completely listen to people, and maybe try not thinking the worst of people.

    I think that statement is applicable to people in general. I didn't see the left lining up to pore over the context of McCain's "100 years" comment, for example.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    wwtMask wrote: »
    3) Republicans (and really, a lot of MSM talking heads) need to learn to read and/or completely listen to people, and maybe try not thinking the worst of people.

    I think that statement is applicable to people in general. I didn't see the left lining up to pore over the context of McCain's "100 years" comment, for example.

    That he doesn't mind if we have a permanent military presence in the Middle East, which is a really fucking stupid thing to do?

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • BitstreamBitstream Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    moniker wrote: »
    Bitstream wrote: »
    Heh, a kid I work with gave me a fist-bump earlier today, and when I said "oh no, now we're terrorists!" he was confused. I explained to him the whole terrorist-fist-jab hullabaloo, and he said to me, in all seriousness, "well, we don't really know. I mean, he claims to be a Christian, but he was raised a Muslim. Who knows what he was taught."

    My urge to kill was held back only by the knowledge that he wasn't old enough to vote yet.

    I'm getting so burned out on politics; any time someone brings up the subject I end up spending 90% of the conversation correcting misinformation and outright ignorance. I guess I should be happy that people are actively seeking me out as a source of political knowledge, but god dammit people can we talk about something other than omg-secret-muslim?

    I hate living in west Michigan [strike]sometimes[/strike] pretty much all the time. I can only hope the level of discussion around here goes up a few notches once the campaign season is in full swing.

    The fact that being a muslim is considered a negative at all is probably the most discouraging aspect of it. It shouldn't fucking matter in the first place, but oh noes terrorist cells in the legislature!!! Grah!

    Agreed, and the most frustrating aspect for me is deciding which aspect of the argument to lead with - "He's not a Muslim" or "What the fuck does it matter anyway?"

  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    wwtMask wrote: »
    3) Republicans (and really, a lot of MSM talking heads) need to learn to read and/or completely listen to people, and maybe try not thinking the worst of people.

    I think that statement is applicable to people in general. I didn't see the left lining up to pore over the context of McCain's "100 years" comment, for example.

    He got an opportunity to adequately explain himself on The Daily Show, and he did so pretty well (He seems to speak better off-the-cuff than in a prewritten speech, which oddly enough is basically the exact opposite of Obama). I mean, if you want to say that The Daily Show isn't part of the left-leaning liberal media or whatever, that's fine I guess.

    vvvvvv-dithw.png
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    wwtMask wrote: »
    3) Republicans (and really, a lot of MSM talking heads) need to learn to read and/or completely listen to people, and maybe try not thinking the worst of people.

    I think that statement is applicable to people in general. I didn't see the left lining up to pore over the context of McCain's "100 years" comment, for example.

    Several people here mocked those who took it out of context and also called McCain stupid for wanting a sustained troop presence in the middle east for 100 years full on Euro-zone peace or asplosions regardless.

    Besides, I sorta thought that conservatives didn't like the notion of an American empire overseas. America First, Balkans 895th! Or something.

    tea-1.jpg
  • DeaconBluesDeaconBlues __BANNED USERS
    edited July 2008
    That he doesn't mind if we have a permanent military presence in the Middle East, which is a really fucking stupid thing to do?

    Nah, that he's somehow bellicose or that all things being equal, he'd prefer it.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Poll'd.

    Let it be known I don't really like any of these options.

    Who had you been supporting previously?

    Schwietzer. Webb before his chicks-in-the-military comments were released. I still like Clark, but that won't happen now.

    You can't be stealing our governor. We're not done with him yet.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum
    Spoiler:
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This discussion has been closed.