[CRY ON] This is actually the TF2 thread if you didn't know (56K ARE BABY)

Zen Vulgarity · July 2008

Tyrannus and Enders can't be together.

It would fill the entire room with fat.

TFC did a ton of things right. But it was also broken by people who figured out how to exploit things.

theantipop · July 2008

Zen Vulgarity wrote: »

Tyrannus and Enders can't be together.

It would fill the entire room with fat.

TFC did a ton of things right. But it was also broken by people who figured out how to exploit things.

Example, please.

Zen Vulgarity · July 2008

Example of which, doing things right, or having people breaking the game?

theantipop · July 2008

Exploits that broke TFC.

Zen Vulgarity · July 2008

A conc jumping, bunny hopping medic made the scout near useless, for one.

theantipop · July 2008

I'd accept that, even though I found plenty of uses for a scout once I got good at the game. But I'd hardly say that it broke TFC nor would I say that it invalidates my stance that medics are disproportionately powerful in this game because of their healing capabilities and that their healing was more reasonable prior.

BTW, medics made scouts useless because they had grenades, not because of mobility advantage.

Zen Vulgarity · July 2008

Their healing was fast enough to heal someone efficiently. It wasn't 5 hp or something retarded.

Lamoid · July 2008

I consider the game broken if the scout can't say "BOINK", the fact that it came out before TF2 is no exscuse.

theantipop · July 2008

Yea, but you had to maintain close contact with the target. There were major drawbacks to it. Now you have autobeam around corners that heals pretty rapidly, especially in the overheal territory.

What I'm ultimately getting at is that it's frustrating in pubs, even PA games, when your team all picks a class that they want to play and no one happens to be a medic. If the other team has even one competent medic your chances of victory are slim. Medics may have been excellent flag runners in TFC, but so were other classes. No game required any one class (save sniper in some cases) to remain competitive.

Zen Vulgarity · July 2008

Considering that the medic had a fair amount of health and armor, good regen, and the super shotgun, the close proximity was a non-issue.

Especially since he was so fast, you could run up to the guy trying to shoot you, infect him, shoot him, then go back to healing your man.

And TF2's gameplay is far different from TFC's. They don't really compare that well.

SithDrummer · July 2008

I see what you mean about the healing, I thought you were talking about medics in general. Even so, I still scoff at any suggestion that TFC was balanced.

theantipop wrote: »

I'd accept that, even though I found plenty of uses for a scout once I got good at the game. But I'd hardly say that it broke TFC nor would I say that it invalidates my stance that medics are disproportionately powerful in this game because of their healing capabilities and that their healing was more reasonable prior.

BTW, medics made scouts useless because they had grenades, not because of mobility advantage.

They go in tandem, but I'd still side with the concs/bhopping combo. If the medics hadn't had concs, they probably wouldn't have overtaken scouts for offense. If they hadn't had grenades, they might still have come close to the scout's offensive utility, what with the supershotgun being such a beast.

edit: And to the above post, I'd definitely go so far as to say that in TFC teams "required" medics and soldiers to be competitive. No one on the top tiers of 8v8 and 9v9 ran without at least two or three of each.

Kris_xK · July 2008

These TF2 threads move so slowly.

FishMist · July 2008

Hey who would like to do me a great big favour and copy-paste intothis thread the latest post from the teamfortress2 blog?

I can't look at that site at work

jonxp · July 2008

FishMist wrote: »

Hey who would like to do me a great big favour and copy-paste intothis thread the latest post from the teamfortress2 blog?

I can't look at that site at work

Oh, it's too awesome for that. I mean, it's the greatest post ever, really.

And they said it's coming down in half an hour. Kinda sucks.

BEAST! · July 2008

Kris_xK wrote: »

These TF2 threads move so slowly.

teamfortress.com wrote:

hai guyz...we decide no moer haevy...sorri..lulz

Zen Vulgarity · July 2008

HEAVY POASTING

You owe me some balls in your mouth wrote:

So much blood!
July 9, 2008 - Robin Walker

Well, we were expecting some response to A Heavy Problem, but we severely underestimated just how much interest everyone had in contributing. If you're one of the many folks who emailed us proposals and haven't received a response, please accept our apologies, because there's just too many for us to reply to all of them. From the large amount of feedback and forum activity, it's clear that many of you found this interesting, so we'll definitely be posting more design goals. For those of you still thinking about it, here are some more tools to use in evaluating ideas:

* Does it affect the main weaknesses of the class? What could opponents do against an entire team of this class armed with your idea? Class balance is more a function of the weaknesses of each class than their strengths. Weaknesses provide population control, where the value of a counter class rises as a class's population rises. i.e. Snipers become more valuable the more Heavies there are on the enemy team. As a result, we're very wary of reducing a class's weaknesses.
* How does it affect the core interactions between this class and other classes? To help here, it's useful to coarsely determine the standard interaction for this class and each other class at short, medium, long ranges, and varying terrain layouts, assuming roughly equal skill on each player's part. Then think about how your idea affects each of those interactions.
* Does it also solve other goals we have for the class? We usually have several goals we're trying to achieve with a class, and ideas which solve multiples are more valuable.

The last one raises another question: What other goals should we have for the Heavy update? Half the battle of good design is choosing the right goals and the right constraints. In A Heavy Problem, we specified a goal for you, and the constraints that had to be kept in mind. Try taking a shot at defining the overall set of goals that the Heavy unlockables should be trying to achieve. Watch out for the common circular logic trap of finding an idea you like and then trying to extract goals from it. We find it's best to not think about ideas at all at this point, and to focus entirely on more abstract goals. What are the biggest problems in the Heavy class? In what situations is it the least fun? Like idea evaluation, goal generation is a big topic in itself, and one we'll go into in a later post.

tofu · July 2008

blog posts are boooooring

or maybe heavy is boring I can't tell

Zen Vulgarity · July 2008

Heavy is boring.

Zek · July 2008

man enough of the do it yourself puzzles, we want info

FishMist · July 2008

Aw man that's the same post that someone else posted earlier, thought something newer must have been posted.

Thanks anyway Zen.

About the balls thing? PM me, we'll work out something...

Metal Gear Solid 2 Demo · July 2008

The heavy is just one big puzzle

but I have unlocked its secrets...

Zen Vulgarity · July 2008

They heavy is not a puzzle, you fat retard.

Echo · July 2008

Monkeybomb wrote: »

You know what I do that's totally crazy and off the wall, guys?

I use ESDF instead of WASD

don't try to stop me because you can't

Back in ancient history when I started playing FPS games I had shift, A, Z and whatever you yanquis have between shift and Z for controls.

Zen Vulgarity · July 2008

Echo wrote: »

Monkeybomb wrote: »

You know what I do that's totally crazy and off the wall, guys?

I use ESDF instead of WASD

don't try to stop me because you can't

Back in ancient history when I started playing FPS games I had shift, A, Z and whatever you yanquis have between shift and Z for controls.

We don't have anything between shift and Z.

Angry · July 2008

real men use the arrow keys.

real men with real man sized hands.

Zen Vulgarity · July 2008

Real men that don't realize it's no longer 1993 and they can jump and crouch now because they have gaming alzheimers, maybe.

FishMist · July 2008

Remember using Ctrl+arrow key to strafe in Doom?

The times they have a-changed.

Kupi · July 2008

A peanut sat on a railroad track,
its heart was all aflutter.
Along came the nine-fifteen:
Toot toot!

DeMoN · July 2008

awesome poem

tofu · July 2008

Prosthetic Conscience wrote: »

The heavy is just one big puzzle

but I have unlocked its secrets...

the puzzle is that you need 3 medics

Eric_Res · July 2008

tofu wrote: »

Prosthetic Conscience wrote: »

The heavy is just one big puzzle

but I have unlocked its secrets...

the puzzle is that you need 3 medics

Hevay puzzle is best solved with the B.O.N.K. algorithm.

Zek · July 2008

Spoiler:

oOo can't believe he's done this

Basil · July 2008

tofu wrote: »

Prosthetic Conscience wrote: »

The heavy is just one big puzzle

but I have unlocked its secrets...

the puzzle is that you need 3 medics

Not quite, the answer to the puzzle is that you need to be behind three medics. The puzzle is the question. And the question is the-

Come sing with me!
Also that is the best poem in the history of the past six weeks. Or more. Quite probably more.

.Tripwire. · July 2008

There was positive response to my fancypants screenshot posting, so I'll keep it up with names documented from now on.

Spoiler:

Avynte · July 2008

Party hats make everything better...

Spoiler:

Echo · July 2008

Zek wrote: »

Spoiler:

oOo can't believe he's done this

Off screen, right side: "HUDDA HUDDA HUDDA!"

TychoCelchuuu · July 2008

Zen Vulgarity wrote: »

Echo wrote: »

Monkeybomb wrote: »

You know what I do that's totally crazy and off the wall, guys?

I use ESDF instead of WASD

don't try to stop me because you can't

Back in ancient history when I started playing FPS games I had shift, A, Z and whatever you yanquis have between shift and Z for controls.

We don't have anything between shift and Z.