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This racism is killing me on the inside(racism thread)

LRGLRG Registered User regular
edited September 2008 in Debate and/or Discourse
Because these are always fun, right folks?

Soooo.. This is pretty fucked up

Has anyone heard of this story yet? Basically, in Winnfield, La, a white cop tasered a handcuffed 21 year old black male 9 times and killed him. The local government in Winnfield is apparently amazingly corrupt and the police are sticking to the official report which is full of bullshit and contradicted by every bit of evidence. The cop was eventually fired but no charges have been filed against him or anyone else in the case. Winnfield is 40 miles away from Jena, La. too


My first question is, Does this shit make anyone else mad as fuck?

I've already seen in a few places the idea that since there is a black man with a good chance of becoming POTUS is no more racism in America or at least not enough to actually be of any consequence. How many of you believe that?
Who believes that cases like this one are relatively rare?
How many of you guys think that black people just complain too much and use racism as an excuse to get favorable treatment?
How many of you believe that black people can only blame themselves for where they are in American today?
Do you ever believe anyone who says that they "don't see color"?
Why do most of my question have to do with black people?
Why do white people get pissy because it's not as socially acceptable for them to use the n word?

... I don't know. I'm a young black guy and this shit actually gets to me. I see so many American white people acting like they are so oppressed in this country and just simply refuse to believe in white privilege.

Look at this idiot. Like, this video could be a perfect comedy routine except that he's serious. But wait, supposedly he has great grades and high test scores so this guy could easily become a senator or something. Fucks like this guy make the laws, man.


what do you guys think?

LRG on
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Posts

  • DemiurgeDemiurge Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    As a white European my personal view on black people is basicly the same as my view on homosexuals, gypsies and other white people. Indifference. I'm of the oppinion we're in a society where everyone has equal oppertunities (at least in our socialist society) and that racism is simply an outdated idea of "us and them" that serves no purpose in modern society and that we'll eventually grow out of it. Racism is stupid as fuck and I make a point to berate anyone who expresses it but quite frankly I reserve my sympathy for Africa and the rest of the third world.

    DQ0uv.png 5E984.png
  • SpielbergSpielberg Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Frankly, after reading the article, I'm not really convinced this had anything to do with race.

    Granted, the cop was white, and the victim was black, but that doesn't necessary mean anything.

    To me it seems like a fucked up cop in a corrupt town who likes to Taser helpless people and went too far, because nobody thought of stopping him (even though it was on record that he was a very prolific taser user).

    I don't know if this is a racial thing, and maybe jumping to that conclusion is just a symptom of the stress between blacks and whites in that area.

    3dflags_smr0001-000ea.gif San Marino delegate to the United Nations
  • ProfsProfs Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I think, that for the most part, you're preaching to the choir here.

    Racism, in my opinion, will never completely vanish, just as other flaws in human beings will never completely vanish, so in that sense it's not ridiculously surprising. Disgusting, yes. Regardless of how unacceptable racism becomes in society as a whole here in the US in the future, these spots will always exist here and there.

    Hopefully some mainstream press can get hold of this and the fucker (cop, obviously) can get a hell storm rained down on him.

  • SpielbergSpielberg Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Also, on another note, Racism exists.

    Let's face it, we are all, in some degree, biased against certain groups of people.

    Its no use trying to be all high and mighty and saying you aren't racist and you think the same of everyone.

    We all have our prejudices, and there is no avoiding that.

    The real point about being a thinking individual is to understand that these prejudices are illogical and not to act on them.

    3dflags_smr0001-000ea.gif San Marino delegate to the United Nations
  • FirstComradeStalinFirstComradeStalin Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Spielberg wrote: »
    Also, on another note, Racism exists.

    Let's face it, we are all, in some degree, biased against certain groups of people.

    Its no use trying to be all high and mighty and saying you aren't racist and you think the same of everyone.

    We all have our prejudices, and there is no avoiding that.

    The real point about being a thinking individual is to understand that these prejudices are illogical and not to act on them.

    That's definitely true. I also get frustrated when I see people who refuse to believe they're racist because they're a minority, and that somehow absolves them of any sort of possibility at being racist. I'm Indian, and my whole family is pretty racist. My mother, in particular, is one of the most racist people I know. Yet they refuse to see it as racism, just as "looking out for their own" as if being part of the same race somehow means you're part of some fucked up brotherhood.

    Picture1-4.png
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    LRG wrote: »
    Because these are always fun, right folks?

    Soooo.. This is pretty fucked up

    Has anyone heard of this story yet? Basically, in Winnfield, La, a white cop tasered a handcuffed 21 year old black male 9 times and killed him. The local government in Winnfield is apparently amazingly corrupt and the police are sticking to the official report which is full of bullshit and contradicted by every bit of evidence. The cop was eventually fired but no charges have been filed against him or anyone else in the case. Winnfield is 40 miles away from Jena, La. too


    My first question is, Does this shit make anyone else mad as fuck?

    Hell yeah.
    I've already seen in a few places the idea that since there is a black man with a good chance of becoming POTUS is no more racism in America or at least not enough to actually be of any consequence. How many of you believe that?

    Not me. The fact that a single black man has a decent shot at the presidency doesn't mean much, particularly since one can win the presidency without actually winning the election in a majority of the country (either land area, population, or both). Whether we're willing to elect a black man has nothing to do with the conditions that a black man (even that same black man) face in backwaters of, say, Louisiana.
    Who believes that cases like this one are relatively rare?

    This extreme? Yeah, they're relatively rare, and only get the kind of attention they do because of both a national and instant media as well as the power the internet gives to people to spread the word on their own. All in all, your chances of being tasered to death (or having other such "catastrophic" experiences) by the police are (or at least seem to be) pretty low.

    However, your chances of generally being hassled and treated kinda shitty by the police...less so.
    How many of you guys think that black people just complain too much and use racism as an excuse to get favorable treatment?

    Some? Maybe. Though I don't really think the "get favorable treatment" part works out all that well.
    How many of you believe that black people can only blame themselves for where they are in American today?

    "Only?" Fuck no. At the same time, suggesting that black people (as much as I hate referring to an entire race as some kind of monolithic entity, which they aren't) bear no responsibility for their current situation is just as wrong as saying they bear all responsibility.

    Of course, all this talk of a race bearing responsibility falls apart as soon as you recognize that a race is really just a bunch of individuals. Obviously a majority of individual black folks bear no responsibility at all to the racism that they face. So really both the question and my answer above are kinda silly.
    Do you ever believe anyone who says that they "don't see color"?

    Not really. I think it's possible to keep it from having any significant affect on how you treat people or your actions in general, but I don't think too many people in our society have actually progressed to the point where they can disregard it entirely.
    Why do most of my question have to do with black people?

    They're a significant minority who for whatever reason still doesn't seem to be making a lot of "progress." Or at least that's my guess. There are minorities that I think have it worse...say, Native Americans or Muslims...but there aren't nearly as many of either and the latter are (I'm hoping) just facing a temporary uptick in extreme prejudice. There are a shitload of black people, they've been getting fucked for forever, and honestly it doesn't seem to be getting better all that quickly...especially once you leave a relatively small subset of the country.

    That, or because you're black.

    Maybe both.
    Why do white people get pissy because it's not as socially acceptable for them to use the n word?

    Because they're idiots.
    ... I don't know. I'm a young black guy and this shit actually gets to me. I see so many American white people acting like they are so oppressed in this country and just simply refuse to believe in white privilege.

    Depends who you're talking about. If you're talking about bitter middle-class fuckers acting like the only reason they're not living in a bigger house is because the gubbamint is taking all their money to give it to those damn minorities, I kind of agree with you. But you have to understand that for many lower-middle-class or just-plain-lower class whites, life can kind of suck and it can be pretty hard to believe they have any sort of "privilege" working in their favor. When I was growing up in a roach-infested hellhole with like one window in the entire apartment downstairs from tweekers and next door to about six Mexican families (in one apartment), I'd have laughed in your face at any talk of "white privilege."

    Having seen a bit of the bigger picture, I realize now that it's entirely likely that a black kid in my same position (income level, etc.) could very easily have had it even worse. But for somebody who hasn't actually had to go through that, and who is actually in a pretty shitty situation, it can get pretty hard to imagine that.

  • LRGLRG Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Spielberg wrote: »
    Also, on another note, Racism exists.

    Let's face it, we are all, in some degree, biased against certain groups of people.

    Its no use trying to be all high and mighty and saying you aren't racist and you think the same of everyone.

    We all have our prejudices, and there is no avoiding that.

    The real point about being a thinking individual is to understand that these prejudices are illogical and not to act on them.

    I completely agree about everyone having prejudices. It's like Colbert saying he doesn't see color, it's a joke to believe that no one is affected by the media and other preconceptions they pick up in life.

    I don't see how assuming that the cop is racist is a huge jump in logic though. I admit that there is a chance the the cop is equal opportunity asshole and the killing had nothing to do with race, but cmon? Reporting that the guy was high off crack cocain and PCP? Would that have used that cover-up if he was a white guy?

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    LRG wrote: »
    Spielberg wrote: »
    Also, on another note, Racism exists.

    Let's face it, we are all, in some degree, biased against certain groups of people.

    Its no use trying to be all high and mighty and saying you aren't racist and you think the same of everyone.

    We all have our prejudices, and there is no avoiding that.

    The real point about being a thinking individual is to understand that these prejudices are illogical and not to act on them.

    I completely agree about everyone having prejudices. It's like Colbert saying he doesn't see color, it's a joke to believe that no one is affected by the media and other preconceptions they pick up in life.

    I don't see how assuming that the cop is racist is a huge jump in logic though. I admit that there is a chance the the cop is equal opportunity asshole and the killing had nothing to do with race, but cmon? Reporting that the guy was high off crack cocain and PCP? Would that have used that cover-up if he was a white guy?

    It's possible that if it was a white guy he'd have used a different cover-up, but still killed him. Police brutality is often colorblind. It's entirely possible that this was motivated by race, but it's also possible that this was just a cop on a power trip and the race is a coincidence. I didn't look around, but were a majority of the other people this guy tased under questionable circumstances black as well?

  • ChurchChurch Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    LRG wrote: »
    Reporting that the guy was high off crack cocain and PCP? Would that have used that cover-up if he was a white guy?

    Probably not, but that would only mean that he's playing off the prejudices of others, since he's trying to come up with a cover-story that he thinks people will believe.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Maybe he would have said it was meth or something, had it been a white person. There are plenty of crazy white meth heads.

    "Despite all the bitching, if Diablo 3 sucks, I will eat my own cock. Counter-claim: If Diablo 3 does not suck, I will have a list of whiners who need to eat cocks." - Zen Vulgarity
  • SpielbergSpielberg Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Okay, so not a huge jump, but its a jump nonetheless.

    Notice that the article doesn't exactly make the cop out to be a very nice guy, and kinda assumes he is guilty as fuck right off the bat, so we can rule out a bias in favor of the cop (the bias is probably the other way, because all this is alleged, but you still get the clear impression that the cop is the devil), and yet the only time the racial issue is brought up, it's to say that the black community are saying it was a racist act, even though there is no evidence in the rest of the article to support that.

    Since we have already shown that the article is not biased in favor of the cop, there are only two conclusions possible:

    1. The article is lacking in information, but there is evidence that this was a racial crime, and that explains the feelings of the local black community.

    2. Jumping to conclusions based on personal feelings (White cop kills black guy = racism)

    3dflags_smr0001-000ea.gif San Marino delegate to the United Nations
  • LRGLRG Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    mcdermott wrote: »
    LRG wrote: »
    Spielberg wrote: »
    Also, on another note, Racism exists.

    Let's face it, we are all, in some degree, biased against certain groups of people.

    Its no use trying to be all high and mighty and saying you aren't racist and you think the same of everyone.

    We all have our prejudices, and there is no avoiding that.

    The real point about being a thinking individual is to understand that these prejudices are illogical and not to act on them.

    I completely agree about everyone having prejudices. It's like Colbert saying he doesn't see color, it's a joke to believe that no one is affected by the media and other preconceptions they pick up in life.

    I don't see how assuming that the cop is racist is a huge jump in logic though. I admit that there is a chance the the cop is equal opportunity asshole and the killing had nothing to do with race, but cmon? Reporting that the guy was high off crack cocain and PCP? Would that have used that cover-up if he was a white guy?

    It's possible that if it was a white guy he'd have used a different cover-up, but still killed him. Police brutality is often colorblind. It's entirely possible that this was motivated by race, but it's also possible that this was just a cop on a power trip and the race is a coincidence. I didn't look around, but were a majority of the other people this guy tased under questionable circumstances black as well?

    Actually, yeah. The last paragraph of the article: "In less than two years on Winnfield's 20-officer police force, police records show, Nugent ranked as the department's most aggressive Taser user. Among the recipients were a 15-year-old African-American runaway who was not charged with any crime and Pikes' father, currently serving a prison sentence for a drug offense, who was Tasered by Nugent last year, according to Kayshon Collins"

    Racially motivated or not, this guy should not be on the street right now.
    Bama wrote: »
    Maybe he would have said it was meth or something, had it been a white person. There are plenty of crazy white meth heads.

    lmao.

  • SpielbergSpielberg Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Something I found looking around for other versions of this story:

    "The 21 year old Barron Scooter Collins, a convicted drug dealer. "

    So, maybe there was more to it than him just being black.

    3dflags_smr0001-000ea.gif San Marino delegate to the United Nations
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Bama wrote: »
    Maybe he would have said it was meth or something, had it been a white person. There are plenty of crazy white meth heads.

    Yeah, at that point it's just about choosing the excuse that A) people are likely to buy and B) justifies your use of force. The most common being that the suspect was hopped up on some kind of drugs...since the guy was black, he went with crack.

    Kind of stupid, though, since it's pretty easy to determine if the guy had drugs in his system. But whatever.

    At the end of the day, though, assuming that a white cop killing a black guy must be racially motivated is, ironically, pretty racist. Even assuming it's likely is. Inappropriate use of force by police happens to white people all the time...sometimes even at the hands of black officers. It's its own animal, often entirely separate from racism and often in no way racially motivated.
    Actually, yeah. The last paragraph of the article: "In less than two years on Winnfield's 20-officer police force, police records show, Nugent ranked as the department's most aggressive Taser user. Among the recipients were a 15-year-old African-American runaway who was not charged with any crime and Pikes' father, currently serving a prison sentence for a drug offense, who was Tasered by Nugent last year, according to Kayshon Collins"

    Racially motivated or not, this guy should not be on the street right now.

    So he's taser'd two black guys (well, three including the deceased). If he's their "most aggressive Taser user" I assume he's used it on a lot more than three guys.

    Agreed, though, that he should not be on the street. The story says he was fired, though, so I guess that's a plus.


    EDIT: To be clear, though, I think it's entirely possible that this was racially motivated. Largely because I've been to Louisiana, and my short stay there destroyed a significant portion of my faith in humanity.

  • LRGLRG Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Drug dealer or not, there really is no reason to keep tasering a handcuffed man who is begging for mercy, is there?

    plus the article said he's just a taser happy motherfucker. He tasered a 15 year old black kid who didn't even do anything.


    Eh, I'm leaning toward the idea that this cop most likely has some racism in him(like we kinda just agreed on) and is just a major asshole anyway. I'm not really looking for what he did to be classified as a "hate crime", I just want him to be held responsibly for his actions. Drug dealer or no, the man was killed for no reason.

  • SpielbergSpielberg Registered User
    edited July 2008
    That is undebatable, if the evidence brought forth in the article are correct.

    3dflags_smr0001-000ea.gif San Marino delegate to the United Nations
  • DetharinDetharin Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    [rant]

    Calling "Racism!" pisses me off. Especially because it is always white on X. You never hear about X on white treatment being classified as racism. I think in some ways Racism is alive an well in the United States. I think their are anti whites, blacks, hispanics, etc. However it is always reported as white racism.

    Fuck it. Seriously. Just because your skin is a different color than mine does not mean you get a free pass to act like a tool. When you tell someone to shut the fuck up, or stop doing behavior X it does not make you a racist. If I hate you because your black then yeah I am a racist. If I hate you because its 2 fucking AM and your blaring mariachi music that does not make me a racist. Turn it the fuck down.

    If you want to enforce immigration law and deport illegal immigrants, You are racist. Obviously you hate community X and they should be allowed to continue breaking the law. No sorry, I do not care what country you are from, if your here illegally get the fuck out.

    If i hate someone because they are an ignorant, a drug dealer, a free loader, annoying, enjoy playing loud music, feel the government owes them a free pass, or just because they rub me the wrong way its not racism. Racism is when I hate you based on your skin color, if i have a good reason to hate you and you call racism i hope you go fuck yourself to death in the path of a speeding bus.

    [/rant]

    If I was kidnapped, woke up in a lab, told they were going to replace my vocal cords with those of Tony Jay, and lock me in a sound booth until the day I die I would look those bastards right in the eye and say "Alright you sons of bitches lets do this. This one is for the children."
  • LRGLRG Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Spielberg wrote: »
    Also, on another note, Racism exists.

    Let's face it, we are all, in some degree, biased against certain groups of people.

    Its no use trying to be all high and mighty and saying you aren't racist and you think the same of everyone.

    We all have our prejudices, and there is no avoiding that.

    The real point about being a thinking individual is to understand that these prejudices are illogical and not to act on them.

    That's definitely true. I also get frustrated when I see people who refuse to believe they're racist because they're a minority, and that somehow absolves them of any sort of possibility at being racist. I'm Indian, and my whole family is pretty racist. My mother, in particular, is one of the most racist people I know. Yet they refuse to see it as racism, just as "looking out for their own" as if being part of the same race somehow means you're part of some fucked up brotherhood.


    There's the idea that racism doesn't really count if there is no power behind it. Like there is a difference between just maintaining racist ideals and actually using those ideals to disadvantage a person or group of people. racism is racism, but I kind of agree...

    I guess a dog is a dog is a dog is a dog, unlike the wolf who made a widower of grandpa

    The idea of "reverse racism" is completely stupid to me. I do believe in reactionary racism though.

  • LRGLRG Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Detharin wrote: »
    [rant]

    Calling "Racism!" pisses me off. Especially because it is always white on X. You never hear about X on white treatment being classified as racism. I think in some ways Racism is alive an well in the United States. I think their are anti whites, blacks, hispanics, etc. However it is always reported as white racism.

    Fuck it. Seriously. Just because your skin is a different color than mine does not mean you get a free pass to act like a tool. When you tell someone to shut the fuck up, or stop doing behavior X it does not make you a racist. If I hate you because your black then yeah I am a racist. If I hate you because its 2 fucking AM and your blaring mariachi music that does not make me a racist. Turn it the fuck down.

    If you want to enforce immigration law and deport illegal immigrants, You are racist. Obviously you hate community X and they should be allowed to continue breaking the law. No sorry, I do not care what country you are from, if your here illegally get the fuck out.

    If i hate someone because they are an ignorant, a drug dealer, a free loader, annoying, enjoy playing loud music, feel the government owes them a free pass, or just because they rub me the wrong way its not racism. Racism is when I hate you based on your skin color, if i have a good reason to hate you and you call racism i hope you go fuck yourself to death in the path of a speeding bus.

    [/rant]


    White ppl are the majority race group in the US and have been since they killed most of the Native Americans. I understand where your coming from, but that's probably why white on x racism is most widely reported.

    About immigration, the entire country is stole, I really don't think we have any say on who is here "illegally".

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    LRG wrote: »
    White ppl are the majority race group in the US and have been since they killed most of the Native Americans. I understand where your coming from, but that's probably why white on x racism is most widely reported.

    It's not a matter of how widely reported it is, it's a matter of whether or not it's dismissed when it is reported. Accusing a black person (or really any other minority) of racism is often swiftly dismissed or even ridiculed when done by a white person. To some extent your argument regarding power makes sense, but you're suggesting that there are no situations in which a minority member can gain power against a white person and use racism to their advantage.

    This simply isn't true.
    About immigration, the entire country is stole, I really don't think we have any say on who is here "illegally".

    Let's just leave this one alone for the sake of the thread.
    Spoiler:

  • SpielbergSpielberg Registered User
    edited July 2008
    I don't think it's fair to say that America was stolen, in the end, this country was taken from the Native Americans hundreds of years ago when different values were prevalent (Conquering a country was not considered a crime or even immoral at the time) and it is pretty anachronistic to say that it was stolen.

    The main reason that X on white racism is not reported in America is that white people tend to be seen as the race that holds the power (which is true in most cases, granted), and when X commits an act of racism against a white person (whether in actions or in speech) it is usually a smaller matter than the other way around.

    3dflags_smr0001-000ea.gif San Marino delegate to the United Nations
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Honestly, if you think racism or the reporting thereof in the U.S. is restricted to white dudes messing around with minorities, you aren't paying attention. There's been plenty of coverage of relations between blacks and hispanics in the democratic primary. In the 90s there were a fair number of incidents (mostly in western cities. natch) of black racism against asian immigrants.

    Racism is still racism without a power relationship in place, it just tends not to have so many negative side effects. Racial violence by minority cops against white people isn't something that gets reported a lot because it isn't something tha happens a lot, because there aren't a lot of black and latino cops in majority white communities.

    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    remember pluto? Once a planet but now a pseudo
    funny how information changes the facts that you know
  • DetharinDetharin Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    You know after my rant i remember something. I think its important so i'm posting it.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=WAazd7VgrBE

    Anyway you are correct that their is racism that is X on Y. Also lets let the topic of "illegal immigration" go on this one. Personally I believe if you want to change the laws, then the voting populous should change the laws. If your going to break the laws then you should be punished. Heck if the Canadian illegal immigrants want to invade hell I can respect a good invasion. Least its honest. Others disagree, life is funny that way.

    The point id like to make, aside from a funny video, is that there are a lot of good reasons to dislike people. Race really does not need to enter into it. If I dislike someone its because i have a reason, not because of their skin color. Couple minutes with a good machete and we all look the same anyway.

    Hate people because of how they are, not how they look.

    If I was kidnapped, woke up in a lab, told they were going to replace my vocal cords with those of Tony Jay, and lock me in a sound booth until the day I die I would look those bastards right in the eye and say "Alright you sons of bitches lets do this. This one is for the children."
  • Space CoyoteSpace Coyote Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Detharin wrote: »
    Calling "Racism!" pisses me off. Especially because it is always white on X. You never hear about X on white treatment being classified as racism.

    Calling 'Racism!' pisses you off because only non-white people do it to white people? Maybe you should call racism on that.

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Detharin wrote: »
    Calling "Racism!" pisses me off. Especially because it is always white on X. You never hear about X on white treatment being classified as racism.

    Calling 'Racism!' pisses you off because only non-white people do it to white people? Maybe you should call racism on that.
    Is this a new record?

  • SpielbergSpielberg Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Hardly.

    3dflags_smr0001-000ea.gif San Marino delegate to the United Nations
  • ArkadyArkady Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Detharin wrote: »
    [rant]

    Calling "Racism!" pisses me off. Especially because it is always white on X. You never hear about X on white treatment being classified as racism. I think in some ways Racism is alive an well in the United States. I think their are anti whites, blacks, hispanics, etc. However it is always reported as white racism.

    You don't hear about the other shit because in the vast majority of cases, it doesn't matter. They're white. They don't have to worry about not getting job call backs because they have a black sounding name. They don't have to worry about their credit rating being lower based on the color of their skin. They don't have to pay higher interest on mortgage rates based on race.

    I mean really, I could go on and on and on and on here. White privilege is very real and that is why when white people cry foul on racism, people facing real, impactful racism get a bit touchy.

    untitled-1.jpg
    LoL: failboattootoot
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Can someone just compile a list of these responses and links that can be copy+pasted?

  • SamSam Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    While perhaps not the same thing as the institutional racism generally perpetuated in America, I feel compelled to say that the most fundamentally exclusionary racism I've experienced has been from black people. I'm not white, I'm a dark skinned Indian with more pigment than Will Smith.

  • MendrianMendrian Registered User
    edited July 2008
    White privilege is probably real, at least if you're defining privilege as an absence of additional obstacles.

    But not all white people get to experience it, at least not on any level they would recognize. If you're eating Ramen every night and have trouble sleeping because of nightly sirens, it might not occur to you that you don't have it as bad as someone else.

    I think we can agree that across the board, poor people have it shitty too, white or black. Having come from Hicksville U.S.A, I recognize that. In fact, poor people have it so universally shitty that think they would be surprised how much power they wield of they could get over their divisive cultural vestiges, like racism.

  • DoxaDoxa Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Arkady wrote: »
    Detharin wrote: »
    [rant]

    Calling "Racism!" pisses me off. Especially because it is always white on X. You never hear about X on white treatment being classified as racism. I think in some ways Racism is alive an well in the United States. I think their are anti whites, blacks, hispanics, etc. However it is always reported as white racism.

    You don't hear about the other shit because in the vast majority of cases, it doesn't matter. They're white. They don't have to worry about not getting job call backs because they have a black sounding name. They don't have to worry about their credit rating being lower based on the color of their skin. They don't have to pay higher interest on mortgage rates based on race.

    I mean really, I could go on and on and on and on here. White privilege is very real and that is why when white people cry foul on racism, people facing real, impactful racism get a bit touchy.

    Well thats because they look at the demographics and demographically blacks are a higher risk (when it comes to credit and insurance). But hell, it doesn't just happen to minorities...it happens to everyone. Young people have to pay higher car insurance because young people are prone to have more accidents. And, demographically, black people are more prone to go to jail/commit crimes so cops keep an extra eye on them. Now is that a product of racism? Well I don't have any real proof to affirm or deny that, but could it also be a product of their culture? Once again, I don't have any real proof to affirm or deny that. Look at both perspectives.

    And I think that black people that think whites don't get impacted by racism are very ignorant. There are bigots on both sides of the fence.

  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited July 2008
    Doxa wrote: »
    And I think that black people that think whites don't get impacted by racism are very ignorant.

    Very ignorant of....what, exactly? If there's a case of a group of powerful black men systematically shutting whites out of something - jobs or legal representation or health care or something - and it's really well known enough that someone's 'ignorant' for not knowing about it, then obviously it would be no trouble at all for you to supply a citation right about now.

  • KealohaKealoha Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I haven't read everything in this topic, but I have something to chime in about white privilege:

    After discussing it with my political science teacher (I know, I know: such an educated, junior college student, m i rite?) I have to believe that white privilege is real no matter your social standing. He was married to a black woman, and he told us stories about things that would happen to her that wouldn't happen to him.

    For instance, they traveled across the country one time, and they noticed that, on average, if his wife would book a room at a motel, she would get a more expensive rate. So they decided to experiment, and have her go in first and ask for a price, and then have him go in. Almost across the board his rate was lower, and if they told his wife there were no rooms available sometimes they would say differently for him. He would also get the bill by default at restaurants if he went out with her family. He also saw different ways she was treated at work by the same higher-ups, as they were professors at the same place. Her students also treated her differently, though these could also be sex related.

    There are large discrepancies when it comes to the amount of traffic stops both white and black people experience, as well as the severity of the reasons.

    Have you heard of The Racial Contract by Mills? It's an interesting read, though, admittedly, I've skipped some of the dry parts. It paints a very bleak picture of the end of racism. Essentially, the only way to eradicate white privilege is to have whites refuse any sort of benefit they get from their skin color, and that's not likely to happen. I know I wouldn't tell a cop to give me a ticket if he were planning to only issue a warning.

    There are so many tiny, subtle ways in which racism still exists. These forms of it are so much more difficult to eradicate, too, as there are no real large, structural changes that can be made to fix them. What's more, the problem is almost perpetuated by attempting to teach young folks about other races' cultures, as some sort of contempt will almost certainly be bred, as can be seen by the bitterness that some people hold toward Black history month.

    I'm sorry if a lot of this is retreading what's been said here, and I'm also sorry I didn't provide any evidence for my claims aside from anecdotal, but I can later if you wish.

    !! ! ! !!
    Jeep-Eep
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited July 2008

    Depends who you're talking about. If you're talking about bitter middle-class fuckers acting like the only reason they're not living in a bigger house is because the gubbamint is taking all their money to give it to those damn minorities, I kind of agree with you. But you have to understand that for many lower-middle-class or just-plain-lower class whites, life can kind of suck and it can be pretty hard to believe they have any sort of "privilege" working in their favor. When I was growing up in a roach-infested hellhole with like one window in the entire apartment downstairs from tweekers and next door to about six Mexican families (in one apartment), I'd have laughed in your face at any talk of "white privilege."

    Having seen a bit of the bigger picture, I realize now that it's entirely likely that a black kid in my same position (income level, etc.) could very easily have had it even worse. But for somebody who hasn't actually had to go through that, and who is actually in a pretty shitty situation, it can get pretty hard to imagine that.

    Wise words these

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • LRGLRG Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Sam wrote: »
    While perhaps not the same thing as the institutional racism generally perpetuated in America, I feel compelled to say that the most fundamentally exclusionary racism I've experienced has been from black people. I'm not white, I'm a dark skinned Indian with more pigment than Will Smith.

    Can you elaborate some? What were you excluded from?

    Mendrian wrote: »
    I think we can agree that across the board, poor people have it shitty too, white or black. Having come from Hicksville U.S.A, I recognize that. In fact, poor people have it so universally shitty that think they would be surprised how much power they wield of they could get over their divisive cultural vestiges, like racism.


    Yes. I totally believe the entire concept of race is a divide and conquer strategy.
    Doxa wrote: »
    Arkady wrote: »
    Detharin wrote: »
    [rant]

    Calling "Racism!" pisses me off. Especially because it is always white on X. You never hear about X on white treatment being classified as racism. I think in some ways Racism is alive an well in the United States. I think their are anti whites, blacks, hispanics, etc. However it is always reported as white racism.

    You don't hear about the other shit because in the vast majority of cases, it doesn't matter. They're white. They don't have to worry about not getting job call backs because they have a black sounding name. They don't have to worry about their credit rating being lower based on the color of their skin. They don't have to pay higher interest on mortgage rates based on race.

    I mean really, I could go on and on and on and on here. White privilege is very real and that is why when white people cry foul on racism, people facing real, impactful racism get a bit touchy.

    Well thats because they look at the demographics and demographically blacks are a higher risk (when it comes to credit and insurance). But hell, it doesn't just happen to minorities...it happens to everyone. Young people have to pay higher car insurance because young people are prone to have more accidents. And, demographically, black people are more prone to go to jail/commit crimes so cops keep an extra eye on them. Now is that a product of racism? Well I don't have any real proof to affirm or deny that, but could it also be a product of their culture? Once again, I don't have any real proof to affirm or deny that. Look at both perspectives.

    Yeah, I kinda have a hard time believing that black people are more prone to commit crimes based... their skin tone or black people being naturally more aggressive or whatever dumb reason someone could think up. What do you know about black american culture?

    Kealoha wrote: »

    There are so many tiny, subtle ways in which racism still exists. These forms of it are so much more difficult to eradicate, too, as there are no real large, structural changes that can be made to fix them. What's more, the problem is almost perpetuated by attempting to teach young folks about other races' cultures, as some sort of contempt will almost certainly bred, as can be seen by the bitterness that some people hold toward Black history month.

    I think we've all seen some of this. Stupid shit like, "oh why can't white people have a White Entertainment Television." You can only hope they grow out of this by the time they reach 15.
    Kealoha wrote: »
    Have you heard of The Racial Contract by Mills?

    I'll check for this, sounds kinda depressing though.

  • StreltsyStreltsy Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Doxa wrote: »
    And I think that black people that think whites don't get impacted by racism are very ignorant.

    Very ignorant of....what, exactly? If there's a case of a group of powerful black men systematically shutting whites out of something - jobs or legal representation or health care or something - and it's really well known enough that someone's 'ignorant' for not knowing about it, then obviously it would be no trouble at all for you to supply a citation right about now.

    Being poor and even being descriminated againest, ridiculous as it may sound, should not be a free pass to be racist yourself. I doubt there would be any serious citation as it is likely just the thought of such a study would be deemed racist.

    Frankly, there are many forms of socially acceptable racism. The reason I get irrated about racism is that certain minorities are "allowed" to call racism while certain other groups can not.

    410239-1.png
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited July 2008
    Streltsy wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Doxa wrote: »
    And I think that black people that think whites don't get impacted by racism are very ignorant.

    Very ignorant of....what, exactly? If there's a case of a group of powerful black men systematically shutting whites out of something - jobs or legal representation or health care or something - and it's really well known enough that someone's 'ignorant' for not knowing about it, then obviously it would be no trouble at all for you to supply a citation right about now.

    Being poor and even being descriminated againest, ridiculous as it may sound, should not be a free pass to be racist yourself.

    Thank you for that intensely powerful insight. Again, I request a citation for people getting a "free pass" to be racist.
    I doubt there would be any serious citation as it is likely just the thought of such a study would be deemed racist.

    Oh, but you gave yourself a weasel clause that simultaneously reaffirms your own totally unsubstantiated belief! Good show!
    Frankly, there are many forms of socially acceptable racism.

    Again, this requires citation. And no, posting a picture of Al Sharpton does not count, unless you're willing to show exactly how he's "socially accepted."
    The reason I get irrated about racism is that certain minorities are "allowed" to call racism while certain other groups can not.

    That's because an essential component of racism is power - the power to systematically make other people's lives shittier. Do blacks (or whoever) as a group have that power over you? No? Then it's difficult for me to sympathize with your martyr complex.

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Lost in TranslationRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    White privelege + white mans guilt = fun to be a white guy!

    It's not like I go up to places and say "HEY, LET ME GET A LOAN... WITH THE WHITE APR *wink nudge*", which apparently is what a lot of people here think.

    And coming from someone who has had to struggle for what little bit they got and ended up losing it anyway, the idea of "white privelege" is as ludicrous as it gets.

    So hey, where's the artcile about the Phoenix man who died due to getting Tasered that was white?

    Spoiler:
  • reVersereVerse 'Tis the season to beat Johnny Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    That's because an essential component of racism is power - the power to systematically make other people's lives shittier.

    So, if a poor, unemployed white guy calls a rich and succesful black guy a n----r, that's not racism since the white guy isn't in a position of power over the black guy?

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Lost in TranslationRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    reVerse wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    That's because an essential component of racism is power - the power to systematically make other people's lives shittier.

    So, if a poor, unemployed white guy calls a rich and succesful black guy a n----r, that's not racism since the white guy isn't in a position of power over the black guy?

    It works in the reverse.

    Apparently being a majority revokes ones racism license.

    Spoiler:
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