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This racism is killing me on the inside(racism thread)

LRGLRG Registered User regular
edited September 2008 in Debate and/or Discourse
Because these are always fun, right folks?

Soooo.. This is pretty fucked up

Has anyone heard of this story yet? Basically, in Winnfield, La, a white cop tasered a handcuffed 21 year old black male 9 times and killed him. The local government in Winnfield is apparently amazingly corrupt and the police are sticking to the official report which is full of bullshit and contradicted by every bit of evidence. The cop was eventually fired but no charges have been filed against him or anyone else in the case. Winnfield is 40 miles away from Jena, La. too


My first question is, Does this shit make anyone else mad as fuck?

I've already seen in a few places the idea that since there is a black man with a good chance of becoming POTUS is no more racism in America or at least not enough to actually be of any consequence. How many of you believe that?
Who believes that cases like this one are relatively rare?
How many of you guys think that black people just complain too much and use racism as an excuse to get favorable treatment?
How many of you believe that black people can only blame themselves for where they are in American today?
Do you ever believe anyone who says that they "don't see color"?
Why do most of my question have to do with black people?
Why do white people get pissy because it's not as socially acceptable for them to use the n word?

... I don't know. I'm a young black guy and this shit actually gets to me. I see so many American white people acting like they are so oppressed in this country and just simply refuse to believe in white privilege.

Look at this idiot. Like, this video could be a perfect comedy routine except that he's serious. But wait, supposedly he has great grades and high test scores so this guy could easily become a senator or something. Fucks like this guy make the laws, man.


what do you guys think?

LRG on
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Posts

  • Space CoyoteSpace Coyote Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Detharin wrote: »
    Calling "Racism!" pisses me off. Especially because it is always white on X. You never hear about X on white treatment being classified as racism.

    Calling 'Racism!' pisses you off because only non-white people do it to white people? Maybe you should call racism on that.

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Detharin wrote: »
    Calling "Racism!" pisses me off. Especially because it is always white on X. You never hear about X on white treatment being classified as racism.

    Calling 'Racism!' pisses you off because only non-white people do it to white people? Maybe you should call racism on that.
    Is this a new record?

    The Company: The CYOA game that anybody can join at any time - running now!
  • SpielbergSpielberg Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Hardly.

    3dflags_smr0001-000ea.gif San Marino delegate to the United Nations
  • ArkadyArkady Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Detharin wrote: »
    [rant]

    Calling "Racism!" pisses me off. Especially because it is always white on X. You never hear about X on white treatment being classified as racism. I think in some ways Racism is alive an well in the United States. I think their are anti whites, blacks, hispanics, etc. However it is always reported as white racism.

    You don't hear about the other shit because in the vast majority of cases, it doesn't matter. They're white. They don't have to worry about not getting job call backs because they have a black sounding name. They don't have to worry about their credit rating being lower based on the color of their skin. They don't have to pay higher interest on mortgage rates based on race.

    I mean really, I could go on and on and on and on here. White privilege is very real and that is why when white people cry foul on racism, people facing real, impactful racism get a bit touchy.

    untitled-1.jpg
    LoL: failboattootoot
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Can someone just compile a list of these responses and links that can be copy+pasted?

    The Company: The CYOA game that anybody can join at any time - running now!
  • SamSam Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    While perhaps not the same thing as the institutional racism generally perpetuated in America, I feel compelled to say that the most fundamentally exclusionary racism I've experienced has been from black people. I'm not white, I'm a dark skinned Indian with more pigment than Will Smith.

  • MendrianMendrian Registered User
    edited July 2008
    White privilege is probably real, at least if you're defining privilege as an absence of additional obstacles.

    But not all white people get to experience it, at least not on any level they would recognize. If you're eating Ramen every night and have trouble sleeping because of nightly sirens, it might not occur to you that you don't have it as bad as someone else.

    I think we can agree that across the board, poor people have it shitty too, white or black. Having come from Hicksville U.S.A, I recognize that. In fact, poor people have it so universally shitty that think they would be surprised how much power they wield of they could get over their divisive cultural vestiges, like racism.

  • DoxaDoxa Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Arkady wrote: »
    Detharin wrote: »
    [rant]

    Calling "Racism!" pisses me off. Especially because it is always white on X. You never hear about X on white treatment being classified as racism. I think in some ways Racism is alive an well in the United States. I think their are anti whites, blacks, hispanics, etc. However it is always reported as white racism.

    You don't hear about the other shit because in the vast majority of cases, it doesn't matter. They're white. They don't have to worry about not getting job call backs because they have a black sounding name. They don't have to worry about their credit rating being lower based on the color of their skin. They don't have to pay higher interest on mortgage rates based on race.

    I mean really, I could go on and on and on and on here. White privilege is very real and that is why when white people cry foul on racism, people facing real, impactful racism get a bit touchy.

    Well thats because they look at the demographics and demographically blacks are a higher risk (when it comes to credit and insurance). But hell, it doesn't just happen to minorities...it happens to everyone. Young people have to pay higher car insurance because young people are prone to have more accidents. And, demographically, black people are more prone to go to jail/commit crimes so cops keep an extra eye on them. Now is that a product of racism? Well I don't have any real proof to affirm or deny that, but could it also be a product of their culture? Once again, I don't have any real proof to affirm or deny that. Look at both perspectives.

    And I think that black people that think whites don't get impacted by racism are very ignorant. There are bigots on both sides of the fence.

  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited July 2008
    Doxa wrote: »
    And I think that black people that think whites don't get impacted by racism are very ignorant.

    Very ignorant of....what, exactly? If there's a case of a group of powerful black men systematically shutting whites out of something - jobs or legal representation or health care or something - and it's really well known enough that someone's 'ignorant' for not knowing about it, then obviously it would be no trouble at all for you to supply a citation right about now.

  • KealohaKealoha Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I haven't read everything in this topic, but I have something to chime in about white privilege:

    After discussing it with my political science teacher (I know, I know: such an educated, junior college student, m i rite?) I have to believe that white privilege is real no matter your social standing. He was married to a black woman, and he told us stories about things that would happen to her that wouldn't happen to him.

    For instance, they traveled across the country one time, and they noticed that, on average, if his wife would book a room at a motel, she would get a more expensive rate. So they decided to experiment, and have her go in first and ask for a price, and then have him go in. Almost across the board his rate was lower, and if they told his wife there were no rooms available sometimes they would say differently for him. He would also get the bill by default at restaurants if he went out with her family. He also saw different ways she was treated at work by the same higher-ups, as they were professors at the same place. Her students also treated her differently, though these could also be sex related.

    There are large discrepancies when it comes to the amount of traffic stops both white and black people experience, as well as the severity of the reasons.

    Have you heard of The Racial Contract by Mills? It's an interesting read, though, admittedly, I've skipped some of the dry parts. It paints a very bleak picture of the end of racism. Essentially, the only way to eradicate white privilege is to have whites refuse any sort of benefit they get from their skin color, and that's not likely to happen. I know I wouldn't tell a cop to give me a ticket if he were planning to only issue a warning.

    There are so many tiny, subtle ways in which racism still exists. These forms of it are so much more difficult to eradicate, too, as there are no real large, structural changes that can be made to fix them. What's more, the problem is almost perpetuated by attempting to teach young folks about other races' cultures, as some sort of contempt will almost certainly be bred, as can be seen by the bitterness that some people hold toward Black history month.

    I'm sorry if a lot of this is retreading what's been said here, and I'm also sorry I didn't provide any evidence for my claims aside from anecdotal, but I can later if you wish.

    !! ! ! !!
    Jeep-Eep
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited July 2008

    Depends who you're talking about. If you're talking about bitter middle-class fuckers acting like the only reason they're not living in a bigger house is because the gubbamint is taking all their money to give it to those damn minorities, I kind of agree with you. But you have to understand that for many lower-middle-class or just-plain-lower class whites, life can kind of suck and it can be pretty hard to believe they have any sort of "privilege" working in their favor. When I was growing up in a roach-infested hellhole with like one window in the entire apartment downstairs from tweekers and next door to about six Mexican families (in one apartment), I'd have laughed in your face at any talk of "white privilege."

    Having seen a bit of the bigger picture, I realize now that it's entirely likely that a black kid in my same position (income level, etc.) could very easily have had it even worse. But for somebody who hasn't actually had to go through that, and who is actually in a pretty shitty situation, it can get pretty hard to imagine that.

    Wise words these

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • LRGLRG Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Sam wrote: »
    While perhaps not the same thing as the institutional racism generally perpetuated in America, I feel compelled to say that the most fundamentally exclusionary racism I've experienced has been from black people. I'm not white, I'm a dark skinned Indian with more pigment than Will Smith.

    Can you elaborate some? What were you excluded from?

    Mendrian wrote: »
    I think we can agree that across the board, poor people have it shitty too, white or black. Having come from Hicksville U.S.A, I recognize that. In fact, poor people have it so universally shitty that think they would be surprised how much power they wield of they could get over their divisive cultural vestiges, like racism.


    Yes. I totally believe the entire concept of race is a divide and conquer strategy.
    Doxa wrote: »
    Arkady wrote: »
    Detharin wrote: »
    [rant]

    Calling "Racism!" pisses me off. Especially because it is always white on X. You never hear about X on white treatment being classified as racism. I think in some ways Racism is alive an well in the United States. I think their are anti whites, blacks, hispanics, etc. However it is always reported as white racism.

    You don't hear about the other shit because in the vast majority of cases, it doesn't matter. They're white. They don't have to worry about not getting job call backs because they have a black sounding name. They don't have to worry about their credit rating being lower based on the color of their skin. They don't have to pay higher interest on mortgage rates based on race.

    I mean really, I could go on and on and on and on here. White privilege is very real and that is why when white people cry foul on racism, people facing real, impactful racism get a bit touchy.

    Well thats because they look at the demographics and demographically blacks are a higher risk (when it comes to credit and insurance). But hell, it doesn't just happen to minorities...it happens to everyone. Young people have to pay higher car insurance because young people are prone to have more accidents. And, demographically, black people are more prone to go to jail/commit crimes so cops keep an extra eye on them. Now is that a product of racism? Well I don't have any real proof to affirm or deny that, but could it also be a product of their culture? Once again, I don't have any real proof to affirm or deny that. Look at both perspectives.

    Yeah, I kinda have a hard time believing that black people are more prone to commit crimes based... their skin tone or black people being naturally more aggressive or whatever dumb reason someone could think up. What do you know about black american culture?

    Kealoha wrote: »

    There are so many tiny, subtle ways in which racism still exists. These forms of it are so much more difficult to eradicate, too, as there are no real large, structural changes that can be made to fix them. What's more, the problem is almost perpetuated by attempting to teach young folks about other races' cultures, as some sort of contempt will almost certainly bred, as can be seen by the bitterness that some people hold toward Black history month.

    I think we've all seen some of this. Stupid shit like, "oh why can't white people have a White Entertainment Television." You can only hope they grow out of this by the time they reach 15.
    Kealoha wrote: »
    Have you heard of The Racial Contract by Mills?

    I'll check for this, sounds kinda depressing though.

  • StreltsyStreltsy Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Doxa wrote: »
    And I think that black people that think whites don't get impacted by racism are very ignorant.

    Very ignorant of....what, exactly? If there's a case of a group of powerful black men systematically shutting whites out of something - jobs or legal representation or health care or something - and it's really well known enough that someone's 'ignorant' for not knowing about it, then obviously it would be no trouble at all for you to supply a citation right about now.

    Being poor and even being descriminated againest, ridiculous as it may sound, should not be a free pass to be racist yourself. I doubt there would be any serious citation as it is likely just the thought of such a study would be deemed racist.

    Frankly, there are many forms of socially acceptable racism. The reason I get irrated about racism is that certain minorities are "allowed" to call racism while certain other groups can not.

    410239-1.png
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited July 2008
    Streltsy wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Doxa wrote: »
    And I think that black people that think whites don't get impacted by racism are very ignorant.

    Very ignorant of....what, exactly? If there's a case of a group of powerful black men systematically shutting whites out of something - jobs or legal representation or health care or something - and it's really well known enough that someone's 'ignorant' for not knowing about it, then obviously it would be no trouble at all for you to supply a citation right about now.

    Being poor and even being descriminated againest, ridiculous as it may sound, should not be a free pass to be racist yourself.

    Thank you for that intensely powerful insight. Again, I request a citation for people getting a "free pass" to be racist.
    I doubt there would be any serious citation as it is likely just the thought of such a study would be deemed racist.

    Oh, but you gave yourself a weasel clause that simultaneously reaffirms your own totally unsubstantiated belief! Good show!
    Frankly, there are many forms of socially acceptable racism.

    Again, this requires citation. And no, posting a picture of Al Sharpton does not count, unless you're willing to show exactly how he's "socially accepted."
    The reason I get irrated about racism is that certain minorities are "allowed" to call racism while certain other groups can not.

    That's because an essential component of racism is power - the power to systematically make other people's lives shittier. Do blacks (or whoever) as a group have that power over you? No? Then it's difficult for me to sympathize with your martyr complex.

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Aaron Hernandez shot me through the heartRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    White privelege + white mans guilt = fun to be a white guy!

    It's not like I go up to places and say "HEY, LET ME GET A LOAN... WITH THE WHITE APR *wink nudge*", which apparently is what a lot of people here think.

    And coming from someone who has had to struggle for what little bit they got and ended up losing it anyway, the idea of "white privelege" is as ludicrous as it gets.

    So hey, where's the artcile about the Phoenix man who died due to getting Tasered that was white?

    Spoiler:
  • reVersereVerse Never odd or even Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    That's because an essential component of racism is power - the power to systematically make other people's lives shittier.

    So, if a poor, unemployed white guy calls a rich and succesful black guy a n----r, that's not racism since the white guy isn't in a position of power over the black guy?

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Aaron Hernandez shot me through the heartRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    reVerse wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    That's because an essential component of racism is power - the power to systematically make other people's lives shittier.

    So, if a poor, unemployed white guy calls a rich and succesful black guy a n----r, that's not racism since the white guy isn't in a position of power over the black guy?

    It works in the reverse.

    Apparently being a majority revokes ones racism license.

    Spoiler:
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited July 2008
    White privelege + white mans guilt = fun to be a white guy!

    It's not like I go up to places and say "HEY, LET ME GET A LOAN... WITH THE WHITE APR *wink nudge*", which apparently is what a lot of people here think.

    It's actually been demonstrated for those of us with the astonishing superpower to click on links. It's ironic that you complain about this in the same breath as talking about how awesome you are because you do your own work.

  • LailLail Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Kealoha wrote: »
    For instance, they traveled across the country one time, and they noticed that, on average, if his wife would book a room at a motel, she would get a more expensive rate. So they decided to experiment, and have her go in first and ask for a price, and then have him go in. Almost across the board his rate was lower, and if they told his wife there were no rooms available sometimes they would say differently for him.

    What kind of places were they staying at? Do the sales terminals at Motal 8 have buttons on them for each race? I wonder...when I booked my room at the Sheraton for PAX, had a made clear that I was white, would I have gotten a better deal?

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Aaron Hernandez shot me through the heartRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    White privelege + white mans guilt = fun to be a white guy!

    It's not like I go up to places and say "HEY, LET ME GET A LOAN... WITH THE WHITE APR *wink nudge*", which apparently is what a lot of people here think.

    It's actually been demonstrated for those of us with the astonishing superpower to click on links. It's ironic that you complain about this in the same breath as talking about how awesome you are because you do your own work.

    Really? I said I was awesome? I said I had to WORK for my shit, and I do to this DAY. If that's "awesome" as opposed to, you know, "normal", then what the fuck.

    And I've heard plenty about white people getting better this, better that. I think it's crap. I think it's mostly due to monetary and class status. You think I'll get a bigger/better loan than Tiger Woods (assuming he'd need a loan, that is)?

    No.

    Spoiler:
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited July 2008
    reVerse wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    That's because an essential component of racism is power - the power to systematically make other people's lives shittier.

    So, if a poor, unemployed white guy calls a rich and succesful black guy a n----r, that's not racism since the white guy isn't in a position of power over the black guy?

    What happens if the rich, successful black guy decks the poor unemployed white guy? I can tell you what happens in L.A.: the cops are called, he gets made to kneel at gunpoint and systematically humiliated on a public street.

    Of course, that doesn't happen everywhere, because money is a decent insulator against a lot of things, including racism, and class bigotry is its own issue. But I bet that unemployed white guy doesn't need to dress up in his Sunday best to drive through certain parts of town without getting pulled over. That's a power the other guy either doesn't have or has to pay through the nose for.

  • LRGLRG Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Streltsy wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Doxa wrote: »
    And I think that black people that think whites don't get impacted by racism are very ignorant.

    Very ignorant of....what, exactly? If there's a case of a group of powerful black men systematically shutting whites out of something - jobs or legal representation or health care or something - and it's really well known enough that someone's 'ignorant' for not knowing about it, then obviously it would be no trouble at all for you to supply a citation right about now.

    Being poor and even being descriminated againest, ridiculous as it may sound, should not be a free pass to be racist yourself. I doubt there would be any serious citation as it is likely just the thought of such a study would be deemed racist.

    Frankly, there are many forms of socially acceptable racism. The reason I get irrated about racism is that certain minorities are "allowed" to call racism while certain other groups can not.

    THAT is what irritates you about racism? The other more oppressive stuff is just kinda ho-hum, huh?

  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited July 2008
    And I've heard plenty about white people getting better this, better that. I think it's crap. I think it's mostly due to monetary and class status.

    That's great. The actual evidence helpfully provided in the links says otherwise. It's a shame that your idea of working hard apparently doesn't include basic reading.

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Aaron Hernandez shot me through the heartRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    That's because an essential component of racism is power - the power to systematically make other people's lives shittier.

    So, if a poor, unemployed white guy calls a rich and succesful black guy a n----r, that's not racism since the white guy isn't in a position of power over the black guy?

    What happens if the rich, successful black guy decks the poor unemployed white guy? I can tell you what happens in L.A.: the cops are called, he gets made to kneel at gunpoint and systematically humiliated on a public street.

    Of course, that doesn't happen everywhere, because money is a decent insulator against a lot of things, including racism, and class bigotry is its own issue. But I bet that unemployed white guy doesn't need to dress up in his Sunday best to drive through certain parts of town without getting pulled over. That's a power the other guy either doesn't have or has to pay through the nose for.

    So it's alright be the single white guy in Compton/Long Beach these days?

    I know in D.C. I've been threatened, hit, and jumped more times than I can count (not really, but enough times) on the account I was a "cracka who lost his way", even though I lived in Southeast D.C. on South Capitol Street.

    Not uncommon either.

    Of course, you don't hear about that.

    Spoiler:
  • FencingsaxFencingsax Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    And I've heard plenty about white people getting better this, better that. I think it's crap. I think it's mostly due to monetary and class status.

    That's great. The actual evidence helpfully provided in the links says otherwise. It's a shame that your idea of working hard apparently doesn't include basic reading.
    That's not to say there isn't also monetary and class structures, but claiming that racism is in any way insignificant is ridiculous.

    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Aaron Hernandez shot me through the heartRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    And I've heard plenty about white people getting better this, better that. I think it's crap. I think it's mostly due to monetary and class status.

    That's great. The actual evidence helpfully provided in the links says otherwise. It's a shame that your idea of working hard apparently doesn't include basic reading.

    A spokesman for the mortgage banking industry challenged the conclusion, saying the report did not take into account all the legitimate questions about family wealth and debt, house appraisal and other factors that underwriters must consider when making a loan.

    Once that niggling little detail has been taken care of, I will believe the reports. Credit score is ONE factor in determining mortgage rates.

    Scientific experiments require a control and variables. This "proof" you speak of is all derived from data coming from variables, with no real control to verify that the findings are correct. I could have a credit score of, say, 685, and make $20,000 a year, with $5000 in debts from SOMETHING. Someone else could have a credit score of 685, and make $50,000 a year, and be relatively debt-free, and they WILL get better rates on everything than I will.

    Also, in line with you not addressing the shortcomings of each study:

    Both studies have their shortcomings; the California records give only broad indicators of economic achievement, and studying whose resumes elicit callbacks doesn't show who ultimately gets the jobs or what they do once employed.

    ALSO:

    Which companies? Where were the black applicants names addressed from? Did they try sticking white names in Compton or Inglewood to see if the reactions were the same?

    Sorry. I do think racism exists, I've already stated that, but these studies still don't convince me.

    That's why I don't take these studies to heart.

    Do I deny racism exists? No. I just think the idea of racism being a "white only" club is ridiculous. Granted, all I can show you are anecdotes, but the supporting evidence that was given earlier is shaky at best.

    Spoiler:
  • FirstComradeStalinFirstComradeStalin Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Kealoha wrote: »
    as some sort of contempt will almost certainly bred, as can be seen by the bitterness that some people hold toward Black history month.

    I want to point something out about Black history month. I personally hold contempt for the idea of it because it breeds the idea that it's somehow only "their" history thereby only being relevant to blacks. The Civil Rights Movement isn't a major part of "Black history," it's a major part of American history and teaching it only in February makes it seem like some sort of farce, like Black is actually just a foreign country somewhere in the South.

    Beyond that I think there are also much more important issues pertaining to American race relations that just seem to get glossed over. It's mostly just lists of inventors and "the first black person to _______" that get trumpeted around, rather than things that represent significant moments in American culture and politics pertaining to the black experience. Who talks about the experiences of the freed slaves during the Reconstruction and the introduction of sharecropping as the new means of slavery? Where are the actual discussions about white priviledge, what it means, and how to stop it? Where are the discussions about how not being prejudiced doesn't mean just not saying the N word, it's a point at which you see people for who they are? And even then, these discussions are bigger than "black history," they're about how to teach people, especially our children, how to be intelligent and rational human beings.

    Yeah, the people who say "It's just not fair, I want a white history month" are being fucking retarded. And yeah, it's easy to see how the idea of Black History Month came out of the frustrations of people who couldn't get the historical events pertaining to the black experience in America enough exposure, so they just said "Fuck it, let's just make a month where we add it on top of everything." Still, it's perpetuating the idea in our culture that there should be some kind of power struggle among the races, and the only way to get equality is to take it from someone else.

    Picture1-4.png
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Aaron Hernandez shot me through the heartRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    And I've heard plenty about white people getting better this, better that. I think it's crap. I think it's mostly due to monetary and class status.

    That's great. The actual evidence helpfully provided in the links says otherwise. It's a shame that your idea of working hard apparently doesn't include basic reading.
    That's not to say there isn't also monetary and class structures, but claiming that racism is in any way insignificant is ridiculous.

    Not saying it's insignificant.

    I'm saying people are trying to prove it's existence through the wrong means and, without concrete proof, claim they have concrete proof.

    They also tend to believe that there seems to be some sort of nation-wide system of discrimination (reaching down to the hotel level, my god) set up like something out of fucking a Metal Gear Solid storyline. Some evil Arsenal Gear of racism controlling everything from the shadows, denying people of non-white origins good loan rates, hotel rooms, and jobs.

    When the more concise explanation is some people are dicks, and the shit is more isolated than it is widespread, as far as the examples go.

    Spoiler:
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited July 2008
    I know in D.C. I've been threatened, hit, and jumped more times than I can count (not really, but enough times) on the account I was a "cracka who lost his way", even though I lived in Southeast D.C. on South Capitol Street.

    And then they followed you home and denied you a loan, right? If the worst thing you can say is that a bunch of jobless, uneducated, dirt-poor people treated you like shit when you wandered into their neighborhood - well, that's just not particularly shocking. You might get much the same reaction driving an Infiniti through certain small towns. People being petty and tribalistic is a sad fact of life; what you and people like you have utterly failed to understand is that the anti-racism movement is trying to get rid of the official endorsement of it: of people being denied loans and educations, of not receiving job interviews, or of being the victim of overweening authority because they belong to group X.
    Of course, you don't hear about that.

    Because of the powerful black conspiracy against you, right?

    EDIT: and oh hey, you're still arguing without having read the links helpfully supplied. What a fucking shocker. When you use phrases like "everyone knows" or "I don't have any proof, but..." then it's time to look in the mirror and consider that the dude there just may be full of shit.

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Aaron Hernandez shot me through the heartRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    I know in D.C. I've been threatened, hit, and jumped more times than I can count (not really, but enough times) on the account I was a "cracka who lost his way", even though I lived in Southeast D.C. on South Capitol Street.

    And then they followed you home and denied you a loan, right? If the worst thing you can say is that a bunch of jobless, uneducated, dirt-poor people treated you like shit when you wandered into their neighborhood - well, that's just not particularly shocking. You might get much the same reaction driving an Infiniti through certain small towns. People being petty and tribalistic is a sad fact of life; what you and people like you have utterly failed to understand is that the anti-racism movement is trying to get rid of the official endorsement of it: of people being denied loans and educations, of not receiving job interviews, or of being the victim of overweening authority because they belong to group X.
    Of course, you don't hear about that.

    Because of the powerful black conspiracy against you, right?

    Wandered into "their" neighborhood? I LIVED A BLOCK AWAY. I WANDERED INTO MY FUCKING NEIGHBORHOOD.

    And no, you don't hear about it because it's common sense when a white guy gets beat up in an inner city, regardless of where they live. It's a national travesty if it happens to a black guy in the backwoods of Oklahoma.

    Spoiler:
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Aaron Hernandez shot me through the heartRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I read the links and addressed them.

    I'm waiting for you to address the discrepancies of their reports and their basis in reality, because most of them jump to conclusions without supportable evidence.

    The only one that COULD be considered is the job application one, but even then work history and employment reccomendation aren't specifically detailed.

    Spoiler:
  • LRGLRG Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I actually agree with everything you just said about Black History Month, Comrade. Farce is a good word for it. Even as a kid, I noticed that we used the same posters with facts about the same famous black inventors every year. I figured that there had to be more black people who did equally awesome stuff that we still weren't learning about. But don't we still teach kids that Christopher Columbus is some kind of hero?

    A lot of pointless stuff gets acted out with no real progress being made. A funeral for the n word? Why don't we examine what it is that makes people want to say that word or any variation of it and then go from there?

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Aaron Hernandez shot me through the heartRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Also figure in socioeconomic status. What address were these resumes sent in from?

    You get some dude from Inglewood applying for a high-end corporate job, I think the fact he's from Inglewood would be a problem.

    No mention of that.

    Spoiler:
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Nobody's saying that Blacks never perpetrate racism against Whites. Or that racism doesn't exist for every existing combination of races, from one to the other, depending on where you live within America. America is not completely homogeneous.

    What people are saying is that racism is more pervasive against non-Whites than against Whites. Whites haven't, don't, and probably never will have to struggle the same way other races have, do, and will continue to at least least in the near future. There more to "racism" then "hey, cracka!" or getting jumped by a bunch of Black guys when you're White or Indian or Asian or Whateveran. Even while you're getting jumped by said race, you're still - in a general sense - better off if you're White.

    steam_sig.png
    Mim
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited July 2008
    And no, you don't hear about it because it's common sense when a white guy gets beat up in an inner city, regardless of where they live. It's a national travesty if it happens to a black guy in the backwoods of Oklahoma.

    It's common sense when anybody gets beat up in the inner city because, you know, shithole. Blacks are more likely to be victims of violent crime than whites - almost twice as likely, in fact - and that's because you've got, again, a bunch of jobless, uneducated people packed together like sardines and preying on each other. Your comparison doesn't hold water because "the backwoods of Oklahoma" isn't a crime-prone area to begin with.

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Aaron Hernandez shot me through the heartRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Drez wrote: »
    Nobody's saying that Blacks never perpetrate racism against Whites. Or that racism doesn't exist for every existing combination of races, from one to the other, depending on where you live within America. America is not completely homogeneous.

    What people are saying is that racism is more pervasive against non-Whites than against Whites. Whites haven't, don't, and probably never will have to struggle the same way other races have, do, and will continue to at least least in the near future. There more to "racism" then "hey, cracka!" or getting jumped by a bunch of Black guys when you're White or Indian or Asian or Whateveran. Even while you're getting jumped by said race, you're still - in a general sense - better off if you're White.

    I think the biggest problem with racism is the whole "I'M COLOR BLIND" thing right now. Pretend ignorance of ethnicity does not make someone an equal opportunist.

    Spoiler:
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Aaron Hernandez shot me through the heartRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    And no, you don't hear about it because it's common sense when a white guy gets beat up in an inner city, regardless of where they live. It's a national travesty if it happens to a black guy in the backwoods of Oklahoma.

    It's common sense when anybody gets beat up in the inner city because, you know, shithole. Blacks are more likely to be victims of violent crime than whites - almost twice as likely, in fact - and that's because you've got, again, a bunch of jobless, uneducated people packed together like sardines and preying on each other. Your comparison doesn't hold water because "the backwoods of Oklahoma" isn't a crime-prone area to begin with.

    Apparently you've never been to Lawton.

    And I think that people in large metropolitan areas are more prone to violent crime, there just happens to be a higher population of blacks in the inner cities. Unless, of course, there is study out there showing that suburban blacks are twice as prone to violent crime.

    Spoiler:
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Drez wrote: »
    Nobody's saying that Blacks never perpetrate racism against Whites. Or that racism doesn't exist for every existing combination of races, from one to the other, depending on where you live within America. America is not completely homogeneous.

    What people are saying is that racism is more pervasive against non-Whites than against Whites. Whites haven't, don't, and probably never will have to struggle the same way other races have, do, and will continue to at least least in the near future. There more to "racism" then "hey, cracka!" or getting jumped by a bunch of Black guys when you're White or Indian or Asian or Whateveran. Even while you're getting jumped by said race, you're still - in a general sense - better off if you're White.

    I think the biggest problem with racism is the whole "I'M COLOR BLIND" thing right now. Pretend ignorance of ethnicity does not make someone an equal opportunist.

    Actually, it does. or at least it can. When you act like people are equal, that's much better than going around being "honest" about how you feel down deep. I really don't care if everyone hates Black people or White people or Mimes as long as they don't actually let their asinine opinions inform their behaviors.

    edit: You're not going to expunge racism by cutting it off at the root. You have to treat the symptom - racist behaviors - and eventually we'll migrate into a colorblind society. It'll be tragic indeed if people never truly shed their feelings of racial or ethnic superiority in favor of global racial and ethnic equality, but I think it's better that people act as if rather than if people are honest about their racism and DON'T act as if.

    steam_sig.png
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited July 2008
    The only one that COULD be considered is the job application one, but even then work history and employment reccomendation aren't specifically detailed.

    :facepalm:
    The authors took the content of 500 real resumes off online job boards and then evaluated them, as objectively as possible, for quality, using such factors as education and experience

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Aaron Hernandez shot me through the heartRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Drez wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    Nobody's saying that Blacks never perpetrate racism against Whites. Or that racism doesn't exist for every existing combination of races, from one to the other, depending on where you live within America. America is not completely homogeneous.

    What people are saying is that racism is more pervasive against non-Whites than against Whites. Whites haven't, don't, and probably never will have to struggle the same way other races have, do, and will continue to at least least in the near future. There more to "racism" then "hey, cracka!" or getting jumped by a bunch of Black guys when you're White or Indian or Asian or Whateveran. Even while you're getting jumped by said race, you're still - in a general sense - better off if you're White.

    I think the biggest problem with racism is the whole "I'M COLOR BLIND" thing right now. Pretend ignorance of ethnicity does not make someone an equal opportunist.

    Actually, it does. or at least it can. When you act like people are equal, that's much better than going around being "honest" about how you feel down deep. I really don't care if everyone hates Black people or White people or Mimes as long as they don't actually let their asinine opinions inform their behaviors.

    Well, that's not quite what I meant, but I see your point.

    Except for mimes.

    Spoiler:
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