Yeah man, you don't have to spend a bunch of money for a date. As Grid said, go for a walk at a nice park. Or a favorite thing me and my gf like to do when we don't have much cash is go window shopping. Best if your town has a long street with neat little shops all along it. That way you get the fresh air walking, plus you can dart into any shop that catches your interests. Stuff in these places usually provide good conversation, plus the opportunity to crack stupid jokes.
And best of all, it'll be you two alone, so you won't feel overshadowed conversationally by your friends, and you can take control of the situation. Best of luck!
How about this... would this work? Call her up and say something like
"Hey, you know how I invited you over the other night and I barely talked? I like you and I'm kinda shy. So, you know, if you're interested, I'd like to go out with you sometime next week and get some coffee or something"
Because I'm just really worried that if she likes me (and there is a chance she does), she's getting confused by the way I act around her. And this would basically be me asking her out and explaining stuff without having to have a specific day in mind. In other words I could ask her before I have money and before I know when I work.
I just don't want to come off like I'm super desperate or creepy or something. I just find it hard to pull of the telling her my intentions thing without coming off like that.
I really do appreciate everyone's advice so far, and I am trying to follow it.
How about this... would this work? Call her up and say something like
"Hey, you know how I invited you over the other night and I barely talked? I like you and I'm kinda shy. So, you know, if you're interested, I'd like to go out with you sometime next week and get some coffee or something"
No, dont say this. Dont apologise for your personality. Dont point out your own perceived flaws. It took me a while to stop doing this sort of thing myself but its important to learn this.
Cut the whole first two sentences out of your quote and go from there. Dont worry about not having any cash, Friday isnt far away. Saying 'sometime next week' is fine. Adding in towards the end of the conversation "Cool, i find out my work schedule on Friday, so i'll let you know when i'm free?" lets her know it will be after Friday, and that you'll stay in touch. Just make sure you follow up with her ON the Friday, if she's interested now, dont make her wait around wondering if you're interested.
How about this... would this work? Call her up and say something like
"Hey, you know how I invited you over the other night and I barely talked? I like you and I'm kinda shy. So, you know, if you're interested, I'd like to go out with you sometime next week and get some coffee or something"
No, dont say this. Dont apologise for your personality. Dont point out your own perceived flaws. It took me a while to stop doing this sort of thing myself but its important to learn this.
Cut the whole first two sentences out of your quote and go from there. Dont worry about not having any cash, Friday isnt far away. Saying 'sometime next week' is fine. Adding in towards the end of the conversation "Cool, i find out my work schedule on Friday, so i'll let you know when i'm free?" lets her know it will be after Friday, and that you'll stay in touch. Just make sure you follow up with her ON the Friday, if she's interested now, dont make her wait around wondering if you're interested.
So recognizing that I've been acting weird around her is a bad thing then? I'm not planning on apologizing for it, just letting her know I know I've been doing it and that it's not the way I normally am. If that's splitting hairs, then I guess I shouldn't do it, but I would like to hear some more about why exactly it's a bad idea. I really feel that if she reacted well after me telling her that that I'd feel much more comfortable being social around her.
Its negative, and it shows a lack of confidence in yourself. There's just no need to bring it up. I'm sure she already gets that you're a bit shy.
Know what will make you feel more comfortable around her? When you ask her out, and she says yes.
Totally right. Most interesting women will be able to figure out what kind of person you are fairly quickly. There's almost a certainty she already knows you're a bit shy. Just ask her out for a date next week.
Its negative, and it shows a lack of confidence in yourself. There's just no need to bring it up. I'm sure she already gets that you're a bit shy.
Yes.
"Hey, you know how I invited you over the other night and I barely talked? I like you and I'm kinda shy. So, you know, if you're interested, I'd like to go out with you sometime next week and get some coffee or something"
So here's my rundown on what specifically wrong about it.
When you mention that you "invited her over and you barely talked", you're framing it like you're giving her an apology. As if your personality or being around you is something you need to apologize for, when it isn't. It's just you. Instead try, "I had a lot of fun when you came over the other night," if you still want to acknowledge that you're quiet (although I personally wouldn't, she can tell anyways), you could also say something like "I had a lot of fun when you came over the other night; even though I tend to be quiet, I was having a BLAST." Or, just a plain old great time if you're enthusiasm challenged. This explains why you want to see her again; you enjoy when she's around. Now there's no need to explain that you like her like her to give her a reason why you'd want to see her again.
"So, you know, if you're interested, I'd like to go out with you sometime next week and get some coffee or something." If you erase everything that signifies lack of confidence, then you're left with "We should go get some coffee next week." Something that might help is if you know the name of a local coffee shop, "I know this really cool place called <name>, it makes the best <mocha-venti-freeze-vanilla-whatevers>. You should come with me sometime." This way you're not trying to lure her into a place to seduce her; you're inviting her to the best coffee establishment in the world to have an awesome time with you. Totally sounds way better, doesn't it?
And nooo letter. It is way too easy to go INCREDIBLY wrong in a written medium.
How about this... would this work? Call her up and say something like
"Hey, you know how I invited you over the other night and I barely talked? I like you and I'm kinda shy. So, you know, if you're interested, I'd like to go out with you sometime next week and get some coffee or something"
Because I'm just really worried that if she likes me (and there is a chance she does), she's getting confused by the way I act around her. And this would basically be me asking her out and explaining stuff without having to have a specific day in mind. In other words I could ask her before I have money and before I know when I work.
I just don't want to come off like I'm super desperate or creepy or something. I just find it hard to pull of the telling her my intentions thing without coming off like that.
I really do appreciate everyone's advice so far, and I am trying to follow it.
IMO you should say, "Hey, listen, I've had a really good time hanging out with you lately. When are you free next week? I think we should go out for a cup of coffee."
Of course it doesn't have to be word for word. I just think being fairly assertive in this way shows that you're interested in no uncertain terms, comes off as a confident assertion, isn't overly specific so you can make plans within that week time frame, and thus eliminating the "is she really busy or is she blowing me off" mental debate that always comes up when you pick an exact date.
As others have said, she knows you're shy, and it's better not to make a big deal of it. Be confident, say what you mean to say, get the date, enjoy the date. Make sure, also, that you are making sure that she is right for you. A lot of shy guys tend to get into a kind of tunnel vision when they go out on a date and either try to impress too much, or do the whole self-deprecation thing. Don't. Be confident, it's a two way street.
So I shouldn't be broadcasting that I like her then? Because going to an awesome coffee shop to hang out sounds too much like just hanging out.
Then again, she's probably aware that I like her, just in the same way I'm aware that she likes me.
Blah, seriously, I'm like a god damned 15 year old. Doesn't help that I woke up this morning with a sinus infection and a fever. That might actually explain why I wasn't thinking that straight last night.
Yeah. It's totally fine to say you like her, you want to get to know her better, etc. Trying to say it just so you can get her to say it back isn't good. Neither is saying it as if it is your only reason as to why you two should see each other again.
I don't expect that you'll actually play it all nonchalant, so I erred on the side of caution. Although, it never hurts you to build awesome expectations for a place. She can be excited both for the date and for seeing you at the same time. Besides, I'm more of the school of thought that you set the tone of date/not-date when you're actually in person. I've had completely innocent meetings with acquaintances turn hot, just as I've had romantic dates turn into complete ice. What you say beforehand doesn't really effect it; it's what you do that counts.
Would it be a good idea to call her after I no longer have a fever, a sore throat, and a stuffy nose and can think straight?
If its really causing you trouble, yeah theres no problem with that. Just dont pull a penguin and wait till all the planets align before asking her, people dont wait forever.
really, waiting until I feel somewhat well would be a bad thing? Well then.. I guess I might call her tonight then.
No, no
But using it as an excuse not to call until you feel 100% fit might be. There's no rules to all this stuff, waiting until you have a clear head and dont sound like death reincarnate is probably a good idea! I'm just saying, you dont want to leave this sort of thing too long. She'll start to think you're not really interested, and then she'll convince herself that SHE isnt really interested either (emotional defence mechanisms!) and before you know it the opportunity slips away.
But seriously dude, get well. An extra day isnt gonna be too much problem.
Well, I didn't end up calling her tonight, but I did get some good news.
My roommate and Jen's friend who both work with her kinda talked to her some today.
Eric basically put out the fact that I like her, she giggle and blushed and stuff. He said that's cool and stuff because I'm cool and stuff and he kinda explained that I'm shy. Also that I'm frustrated with that. She said she understands that, and that's she's getting frustrated with the situation a little bit.
Which isn't surprising. And if I wait it could pretty much end any chances I have. But here's the thing... now she knows I like her. And I know she wants me to ask her out. And that's going to make everything so much easier for me. I was afraid that I had sent her the wrong signals, and that my chances were pretty much shot, so I was afraid to call her. I was afraid they were wrong and she didn't like me. Knowing I was wrong will make it a lot easier to get through my shyness bullshit.
Bonus points if you make it into a joke. "Oh, hey, I'm dying here, but before I shuffle off this mortal coil, I wanted to ask you out for coffee next week when I'm feeling better."
[Here is where she says yes, that'd be great.]
"Cool, I'll find out my work schedule on Friday. I'll give you a call then, okay? Gotta go back to sleep so I'll get better in time for next week, bye!"
"Oh, hey, I'm dying here, but before I shuffle off this mortal coil, I wanted to ask you out for coffee next week when I'm feeling better."
This is an excellent line and you should use it.
Also, a lot of good advice floating around. At this point, if you are interested in her and know she is interested in you, just go for it.
The following advice comes up in threads like this occasionally, but it is the single best line of girl advice that I have ever heard: girls are just people like any other.
Many guys, myself included, have this habit of thinking of girls as super-complex and tricky people who we don't understand at all. This is not the case, and in fact they are (usually) quite reasonable. So just be casual and yourself around her when you guys go out. Don't worry about looking silly, just act the way you would with anybody else. You may like her a whole lot, but she's still just a normal person.
For an example of what I'm talking about, let me supply a summary of a conversation I had with a friend a few days ago. He is/was in much the same boat as you - interested in this girl and wanted to ask her out to coffee or something, but he is super shy. The day he was going to ask her, he noticed she had changed her Facebook status from "married to {one of her female friends}" to "single". He immediately panicked and thought this meant she was trying to get with some other guy and wanted the other guy to be able to see she was single.
I informed him that she probably just got bored with it and wanted to change it back to normal. I eventually talked him into giving it a shot, and it turns out I was right. Nothing tricky there.
Ok, gave her a call, asked if she'd want to go grab a cup of coffee or something next week. She said sure. I said I didn't know when I worked, but I could give her a call once I found out. She said alright, and told me when she's off.
But she didn't really sound happy or whatever about it. Almost, I dunno... sarcastic?
Bleh. Well, the first step is done. I got over my anxiety enough to actually call her and ask her out. Now for the next step, calling her and setting it up, and then the thirds step, being relatively relaxed and talkative when we do go out. Maybe I should down a couple of red bulls before we go out.
But she didn't really sound happy or whatever about it. Almost, I dunno... sarcastic?
Nah, dont assume the worst. You never know the circumstances of whats going on at the other end of the phone. She might have been halfway through cooking something for example, or about to go out, or already out with people and didnt want to seem rude by staying on the phone too long. So many possibilities. She agreed to come, thats the important bit! Well done dude, good luck with it.
She could also be testing you; throwing you a curveball to see how you will react. "I'll be a little mean to him, and if he's not really serious, then he won't call me back. But if he does call back... "
Edit: also, your friends are trying to hook you up, so don't be afraid to ask them what Jen is into. Coffee makes a good first date, but don't make it every date. Asking her works, too. "Do you like music? What kind?" "Where are you from?" Asking about her shows you are interested in her, and when she talks, make a concentrated effort to look at her and listen. You're shy, so your reaction is to look away, but this is a mistake. Looking directly at her (FACE) is a sign of respect. Also make sure you ask romantic questions as well, so it's not like a job interview. Favorite on-screen kiss is a good one. Questions like that clearly state you don't just want to be friends.
And try to make physical contact: a hand on her shoulder or on her lower back, sitting next to her instead of across from her and leaning together as you enjoy your coffee, or if you are feeling up to it, hold her hand.
If you're the sentimental type, I suggest taking a picture of the two of you while you are at the coffee shop. It demonstrates interest to her, and if she asks what you're doing, you can smile sweetly while blushing a bit and say, "It's our first date!" Who knows, too, she might work out, and then you have a wonderful picture to frame five or ten years down the road. "Hey, honey, look what I found on one of my old hard drives!"
delroland on
EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
One big thing I've learned is don't get your hopes too high. What I mean is, don't think too far into the future. Take it one step at a time, so if it doesn't work out it won't be as painful.
One big thing I've learned is don't get your hopes too high. What I mean is, don't think too far into the future. Take it one step at a time, so if it doesn't work out it won't be as painful.
Oh, I agree. But there is nothing wrong with getting your hopes up. "Hope for the best; prepare for the worst."
delroland on
EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
I think everything delroland said is pretty solid advice. Except for the picture thing, as to me that would come off a little creepy. But again, maybe that's just me. :P
And the best way to keep conversation going on a first date is to ask her stuff. Don't be under the impression that you have to think up a bunch of cool stuff to say. Asking her questions can lead into some awesome conversations. Good luck man! You'll do great!
Uh, I kinda disagree with some of what Delroland just said;
"She could also be testing you; throwing you a curveball to see how you will react. "I'll be a little mean to him, and if he's not really serious, then he won't call me back. But if he does call back... "
Honestly, who does that? Who? ... o_O
She's not testing you dude. As has already been said, it's way too easy to let your mind jump to conclusions and in all likelyness her reaction might have been a bit strange because she's a bit nervous also, or she was with people, or whatever. The simplest answers are usually the case. Don't read too much into these things.
Also, on the physical contact angle - if it is appropriate and being tactile is something you find easy, then obviously go for it. But don't go into a date with the mindset of "OK, this is Date Number 1, I HAVE to succeed in making physical contact," because that's just weird. Judge for yourself what's appropriate.
And this most definitely applies to taking a photo of the two of you. Done inappropriately, and completely out of context, taking a photo of someone can easily come accross as creepy or desperate. Hell, some people are actually quite uncomfortable about having their photos taken...
As I said earlier: just enjoy the date for what it is, not what you're hoping it will turn into. Be confident in yourself and enjoy.
She could also be testing you; throwing you a curveball to see how you will react. "I'll be a little mean to him, and if he's not really serious, then he won't call me back. But if he does call back... "
Edit: also, your friends are trying to hook you up, so don't be afraid to ask them what Jen is into. Coffee makes a good first date, but don't make it every date. Asking her works, too. "Do you like music? What kind?" "Where are you from?" Asking about her shows you are interested in her, and when she talks, make a concentrated effort to look at her and listen. You're shy, so your reaction is to look away, but this is a mistake. Looking directly at her (FACE) is a sign of respect. Also make sure you ask romantic questions as well, so it's not like a job interview. Favorite on-screen kiss is a good one. Questions like that clearly state you don't just want to be friends.
And try to make physical contact: a hand on her shoulder or on her lower back, sitting next to her instead of across from her and leaning together as you enjoy your coffee, or if you are feeling up to it, hold her hand.
If you're the sentimental type, I suggest taking a picture of the two of you while you are at the coffee shop. It demonstrates interest to her, and if she asks what you're doing, you can smile sweetly while blushing a bit and say, "It's our first date!" Who knows, too, she might work out, and then you have a wonderful picture to frame five or ten years down the road. "Hey, honey, look what I found on one of my old hard drives!"
Woha! I was a 100% with delroland up until the red stuff. You're a bit shy and she knows this, it's really no problem at all just trying to get to know her. After all this is your first real date together. I wouldn't suggest anything in the area of trying to connect on a physical level just yet. A strong interest in her thoughts and emotions is really a great way to show you mean business and at the same time showing that you do care about her and really want to get to know her rather than seeing how compatible you are. That stuff will unfold as you go along.
She could also be testing you; throwing you a curveball to see how you will react. "I'll be a little mean to him, and if he's not really serious, then he won't call me back. But if he does call back... "
Edit: also, your friends are trying to hook you up, so don't be afraid to ask them what Jen is into. Coffee makes a good first date, but don't make it every date. Asking her works, too. "Do you like music? What kind?" "Where are you from?" Asking about her shows you are interested in her, and when she talks, make a concentrated effort to look at her and listen. You're shy, so your reaction is to look away, but this is a mistake. Looking directly at her (FACE) is a sign of respect. Also make sure you ask romantic questions as well, so it's not like a job interview. Favorite on-screen kiss is a good one. Questions like that clearly state you don't just want to be friends.
And try to make physical contact: a hand on her shoulder or on her lower back, sitting next to her instead of across from her and leaning together as you enjoy your coffee, or if you are feeling up to it, hold her hand.
If you're the sentimental type, I suggest taking a picture of the two of you while you are at the coffee shop. It demonstrates interest to her, and if she asks what you're doing, you can smile sweetly while blushing a bit and say, "It's our first date!" Who knows, too, she might work out, and then you have a wonderful picture to frame five or ten years down the road. "Hey, honey, look what I found on one of my old hard drives!"
Woha! I was a 100% with delroland up until the red stuff. You're a bit shy and she knows this, it's really no problem at all just trying to get to know her. After all this is your first real date together. I wouldn't suggest anything in the area of trying to connect on a physical level just yet. A strong interest in her thoughts and emotions is really a great way to show you mean business and at the same time showing that you do care about her and really want to get to know her rather than seeing how compatible you are. That stuff will unfold as you go along.
Physical contact is important in showing your interest though, although doing stuff like throwing your arm around her shoulders or touching her lower back might be a bit too much for a first date. Try placing your hand over hers briefly, brushing your fingers against hers, or something equally minor.
Damnit... This thing is really starting to get stupid.
So I'm still sick, and I had to call off today. I however did find out when I worked, and figured I'd get stuff straightened out for next week.
Well, my roommate says that Jen and her friend think it would be a good idea if me and him go over to say hi to them before they get off of work. I, being sick enough to call off of work, tell Eric that it's a no go on my part, but to tell Jen hi. He does, and tells me she seemed dissapointed that I didn't show up, and sorry that I was sick.
So I decided to call her. I told her I found out when I was off, told her the days. She works one of them, and the other she's not sure if she works. So I tell her to give me a call when she finds out. But once again she just seemed kinda blah to the whole thing (well, on the phone at least).
But my other roommate brought up a good point. I'm shy and stuff, and I never act excited or anything when she comes over. She's shy and stuff, so maybe she's just doing the same thing. I dunno. Either way, a date is still not set up. Blech.
She could also be testing you; throwing you a curveball to see how you will react. "I'll be a little mean to him, and if he's not really serious, then he won't call me back. But if he does call back... "
Edit: also, your friends are trying to hook you up, so don't be afraid to ask them what Jen is into. Coffee makes a good first date, but don't make it every date. Asking her works, too. "Do you like music? What kind?" "Where are you from?" Asking about her shows you are interested in her, and when she talks, make a concentrated effort to look at her and listen. You're shy, so your reaction is to look away, but this is a mistake. Looking directly at her (FACE) is a sign of respect. Also make sure you ask romantic questions as well, so it's not like a job interview. Favorite on-screen kiss is a good one. Questions like that clearly state you don't just want to be friends.
And try to make physical contact: a hand on her shoulder or on her lower back, sitting next to her instead of across from her and leaning together as you enjoy your coffee, or if you are feeling up to it, hold her hand.
If you're the sentimental type, I suggest taking a picture of the two of you while you are at the coffee shop. It demonstrates interest to her, and if she asks what you're doing, you can smile sweetly while blushing a bit and say, "It's our first date!" Who knows, too, she might work out, and then you have a wonderful picture to frame five or ten years down the road. "Hey, honey, look what I found on one of my old hard drives!"
Woha! I was a 100% with delroland up until the red stuff. You're a bit shy and she knows this, it's really no problem at all just trying to get to know her. After all this is your first real date together. I wouldn't suggest anything in the area of trying to connect on a physical level just yet. A strong interest in her thoughts and emotions is really a great way to show you mean business and at the same time showing that you do care about her and really want to get to know her rather than seeing how compatible you are. That stuff will unfold as you go along.
Physical contact is important in showing your interest though, although doing stuff like throwing your arm around her shoulders or touching her lower back might be a bit too much for a first date. Try placing your hand over hers briefly, brushing your fingers against hers, or something equally minor.
I dunno. Physical contact is important but IMO not on the first date, the hand on hand is pretty good though. Touching her lower back is pushing it, I would say. My girlfriend agrees (see how I tried to gave my weak arguments and suggestions validity by referring to a girl!).
I dunno. Physical contact is important but IMO not on the first date, the hand on hand is pretty good though. Touching her lower back is pushing it, I would say. My girlfriend agrees (see how I tried to gave my weak arguments and suggestions validity by referring to a girl!).
Well, the major issue here is that DoR is worried that he's not expressing his interest in this girl enough, and he's also worried that she's not expressing enough interest in him because of mutual shyness. The easiest way to show that interest (and a great way to flirt) is to have that physical contact because it sends a clear message of "I want to be more than friends" and it's a natural way of exciting the other person. I would definitely agree that DoR shouldn't go too far with the touching, but since it's pretty clear both these people like each other, it seems like a pretty easy thing to ease into.
Physical contact = important. It is one of the major factors that separate "just-friends" from girlfriends. I'm not saying go overboard and cop a feel; however, the physical barrier must be broken, and there is nothing wrong with breaking that barrier on a first date, even if it is something minor.
The lower back thing, for example. I'm not suggesting you start rubbing her back or anything; what I meant was, when you bend over to put her coffee on the table, try to touch her in a subtle, respectful way as you say, "Here's your coffee." It really makes a difference in setting the general mood.
delroland on
EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
Physical contact = important. It is one of the major factors that separate "just-friends" from girlfriends. I'm not saying go overboard and cop a feel; however, the physical barrier must be broken, and there is nothing wrong with breaking that barrier on a first date, even if it is something minor.
The lower back thing, for example. I'm not suggesting you start rubbing her back or anything; what I meant was, when you bend over to put her coffee on the table, try to touch her in a subtle, respectful way as you say, "Here's your coffee." It really makes a difference in setting the general mood.
Exactly. When I first meet up on a date, I open with a hug and a kiss on the lips. I've had first dates end in various states of undress, and I've also had dates end right then and there. My outlook is that if a girl is attracted to you she's going to want a kiss anyways, and if she isn't attracted then you don't want to spend an awkward hour together finding out. And if she's agreed to a date, it means she's attracted to you. Hey, all the better for both parties that we got that out on the open in the first place. The fact is, the longer it takes for you to get physical with a girl, the more awkward it's going to be until you do it.
Mind you, I'm not suggesting you actually go up and hug her and kiss her on the lips. If you aren't the type of person that usually does it, then it'll seem awkward and forced. That never goes well. Whatever you're feeling, the girl is feeling also. So if you think saying hello to your date with a kiss on the lips is creepy, then she'll pick up on that and think it is creepy too. But if you don't think so, then it won't be creepy. I just wanted to illustrate the point that you don't need to wait until the second or third or fourth or whatever date to get physical. Physical contact is totally normal. Plenty of people are comfortable with handshakes/hugs/kisses/etc as soon as they meet. For DeathofRats, I'd suggest you find whatever level of physicality you're comfortable with, then make sure you stay on the risque border of that. Push yourself to stay on the edge, be it just giving her a warm handshake or saying hello with a hug-back-massage.
I'd suggest a good hug. The kind where there's full body contact from top to bottom, instead of one of those lean in hugs that makes it look like you're both trying to hug above a vat of boiling acid and afraid to fall in. There's not a girl alive who won't smile from a good hug.
Ok, things went about as swimmingly as they possibly could. This might be the success story of H&A.
I promised updates, so here they are (I'm slightly drunk, so please take what I say as such).
Jen and I went out tonight. It took until last night, but finally we found a night were we could go out to get "coffee" (obviously neither of us have a particular fondness for the drink, but hey, whatever). I put the ball in her court and she responded last night. About 3 hours before the date I got a text message from Eric telling me that this was my last chance, so I better not screw it up.
I had this whole thing planned where I drove to the coffee shop, but instead she drove to a different place (me still being unfamiliar with the area). We got drinks, and then walked the river (there's a river, btw). We walked, talked, and swang on some swings. Then she told me that there was a party planned at my place for later. I didn't make any physical contact. I was afraid to. With this being my "last chance" I decided to play it safe.
The whole thing went ok. I was awkward, but only slightly. I at least talked and opened up some. She dropped me off, and I was kinda unconfident in the way things went.
But then came the party. We watched highlander, me, jen, whatsherface and abby drinking anytime someone drew a sword with intention to do harm. We took shots, and had a good time. Eric and Tim were also there. After the movie ended, we all sat around and talked. Tim went to bed, and eventually Eric and Abby went outside to talk. I decided that it was either now or never, and started to lay my cards out on the table. My plan was to tell her that I liked her, I knew she liked me, and that that was making me act shy around her. The whole thing was going to end with me kissing her, and that would break the tension (spider pig joke needed).
Anyway, Eric and Abby came back in before I finished, and we all hung out for a bit.
Then I decided I liked my balls, and that it was time to use them. I asked Jen upstairs, and upstairs we went. She threw up first, but eventually I laid out everything. I told her about what Eric said, said that threw me off guard, but said that I wanted to move past all that. And then I kissed her. And everything was good.
Pretty much, I made my intentions clear, and in no unmistakable fashion told her how I felt. And then, after we went back downstairs, and she decided she had to go, I did it again.
I followed her to her car, told her "in case you thought that was an accident", and then kissed her again.
Overall, I think this was not only a big night for the two of us, but a big step forward for me. Seriously, I was afraid she'd react negatively to everything I did tonight, but apparently I'm a fool. She's an amazing person, and I get the feeling she might feel the same about me. We're suppose to hang out again tomorrow, and if all goes well, that may bet the last update you get from me.
Good job H&A. This, no matter what happens between Jen and I, is a success story. I think this may be exactly what I needed to get over my shyness... an example of it being unfounded. And I couldn't have done it without your support. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart.
Then I decided I liked my balls, and that it was time to use them. I asked Jen upstairs, and upstairs we went. She threw up first, but eventually I laid out everything. I told her about what Eric said, said that threw me off guard, but said that I wanted to move past all that. And then I kissed her. And everything was good.
Eww. Did she at least rinse her mouth out or brush her teeth first, because if not, then that's true...okay, no, that's still gross. I'm going to go throw up now.
Not to put a damper on things (what I do best), but see how things go. Be sure you can both do this when sober. You've obviously past a major hurdle, and even if you were drunk it still helps, but you need to try to keep it up and open without the alcohol.
You're not quite there yet Death of Rats, but this is a step in the right direction. From what I was reading though, it seemed like she was pretty hammered, so she might not even remember much about the whole kissing bit. See what happens when you hang out with her tomorrow.
Then I decided I liked my balls, and that it was time to use them. I asked Jen upstairs, and upstairs we went. She threw up first, but eventually I laid out everything. I told her about what Eric said, said that threw me off guard, but said that I wanted to move past all that. And then I kissed her. And everything was good.
Eww. Did she at least rinse her mouth out or brush her teeth first, because if not, then that's true...okay, no, that's still gross. I'm going to go throw up now.
Not to put a damper on things (what I do best), but see how things go. Be sure you can both do this when sober. You've obviously past a major hurdle, and even if you were drunk it still helps, but you need to try to keep it up and open without the alcohol.
Haha good advice.
Also, just a general tip: too much alcohol in your blood ruins good sex.
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Then I decided I liked my balls, and that it was time to use them. I asked Jen upstairs, and upstairs we went. She threw up first, but eventually I laid out everything. I told her about what Eric said, said that threw me off guard, but said that I wanted to move past all that. And then I kissed her. And everything was good.
Eww. Did she at least rinse her mouth out or brush her teeth first, because if not, then that's true...okay, no, that's still gross. I'm going to go throw up now.
Not to put a damper on things (what I do best), but see how things go. Be sure you can both do this when sober. You've obviously past a major hurdle, and even if you were drunk it still helps, but you need to try to keep it up and open without the alcohol.
Haha good advice.
Also, just a general tip: too much alcohol in your blood ruins good sex.
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And best of all, it'll be you two alone, so you won't feel overshadowed conversationally by your friends, and you can take control of the situation. Best of luck!
When I say I'm dead broke, I mean it. Then again, maybe waiting until friday isn't that bad of a thing.
"Hey, you know how I invited you over the other night and I barely talked? I like you and I'm kinda shy. So, you know, if you're interested, I'd like to go out with you sometime next week and get some coffee or something"
Because I'm just really worried that if she likes me (and there is a chance she does), she's getting confused by the way I act around her. And this would basically be me asking her out and explaining stuff without having to have a specific day in mind. In other words I could ask her before I have money and before I know when I work.
I just don't want to come off like I'm super desperate or creepy or something. I just find it hard to pull of the telling her my intentions thing without coming off like that.
I really do appreciate everyone's advice so far, and I am trying to follow it.
No, dont say this. Dont apologise for your personality. Dont point out your own perceived flaws. It took me a while to stop doing this sort of thing myself but its important to learn this.
Cut the whole first two sentences out of your quote and go from there. Dont worry about not having any cash, Friday isnt far away. Saying 'sometime next week' is fine. Adding in towards the end of the conversation "Cool, i find out my work schedule on Friday, so i'll let you know when i'm free?" lets her know it will be after Friday, and that you'll stay in touch. Just make sure you follow up with her ON the Friday, if she's interested now, dont make her wait around wondering if you're interested.
So recognizing that I've been acting weird around her is a bad thing then? I'm not planning on apologizing for it, just letting her know I know I've been doing it and that it's not the way I normally am. If that's splitting hairs, then I guess I shouldn't do it, but I would like to hear some more about why exactly it's a bad idea. I really feel that if she reacted well after me telling her that that I'd feel much more comfortable being social around her.
Know what will make you feel more comfortable around her? When you ask her out, and she says yes.
Totally right. Most interesting women will be able to figure out what kind of person you are fairly quickly. There's almost a certainty she already knows you're a bit shy. Just ask her out for a date next week.
Yes.
So here's my rundown on what specifically wrong about it.
When you mention that you "invited her over and you barely talked", you're framing it like you're giving her an apology. As if your personality or being around you is something you need to apologize for, when it isn't. It's just you. Instead try, "I had a lot of fun when you came over the other night," if you still want to acknowledge that you're quiet (although I personally wouldn't, she can tell anyways), you could also say something like "I had a lot of fun when you came over the other night; even though I tend to be quiet, I was having a BLAST." Or, just a plain old great time if you're enthusiasm challenged. This explains why you want to see her again; you enjoy when she's around. Now there's no need to explain that you like her like her to give her a reason why you'd want to see her again.
"So, you know, if you're interested, I'd like to go out with you sometime next week and get some coffee or something." If you erase everything that signifies lack of confidence, then you're left with "We should go get some coffee next week." Something that might help is if you know the name of a local coffee shop, "I know this really cool place called <name>, it makes the best <mocha-venti-freeze-vanilla-whatevers>. You should come with me sometime." This way you're not trying to lure her into a place to seduce her; you're inviting her to the best coffee establishment in the world to have an awesome time with you. Totally sounds way better, doesn't it?
And nooo letter. It is way too easy to go INCREDIBLY wrong in a written medium.
IMO you should say, "Hey, listen, I've had a really good time hanging out with you lately. When are you free next week? I think we should go out for a cup of coffee."
Of course it doesn't have to be word for word. I just think being fairly assertive in this way shows that you're interested in no uncertain terms, comes off as a confident assertion, isn't overly specific so you can make plans within that week time frame, and thus eliminating the "is she really busy or is she blowing me off" mental debate that always comes up when you pick an exact date.
As others have said, she knows you're shy, and it's better not to make a big deal of it. Be confident, say what you mean to say, get the date, enjoy the date. Make sure, also, that you are making sure that she is right for you. A lot of shy guys tend to get into a kind of tunnel vision when they go out on a date and either try to impress too much, or do the whole self-deprecation thing. Don't. Be confident, it's a two way street.
Also, relax.
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Then again, she's probably aware that I like her, just in the same way I'm aware that she likes me.
Blah, seriously, I'm like a god damned 15 year old. Doesn't help that I woke up this morning with a sinus infection and a fever. That might actually explain why I wasn't thinking that straight last night.
I don't expect that you'll actually play it all nonchalant, so I erred on the side of caution. Although, it never hurts you to build awesome expectations for a place. She can be excited both for the date and for seeing you at the same time. Besides, I'm more of the school of thought that you set the tone of date/not-date when you're actually in person. I've had completely innocent meetings with acquaintances turn hot, just as I've had romantic dates turn into complete ice. What you say beforehand doesn't really effect it; it's what you do that counts.
No.
If its really causing you trouble, yeah theres no problem with that. Just dont pull a penguin and wait till all the planets align before asking her, people dont wait forever.
No, no
But using it as an excuse not to call until you feel 100% fit might be. There's no rules to all this stuff, waiting until you have a clear head and dont sound like death reincarnate is probably a good idea! I'm just saying, you dont want to leave this sort of thing too long. She'll start to think you're not really interested, and then she'll convince herself that SHE isnt really interested either (emotional defence mechanisms!) and before you know it the opportunity slips away.
But seriously dude, get well. An extra day isnt gonna be too much problem.
Well, I didn't end up calling her tonight, but I did get some good news.
My roommate and Jen's friend who both work with her kinda talked to her some today.
Eric basically put out the fact that I like her, she giggle and blushed and stuff. He said that's cool and stuff because I'm cool and stuff and he kinda explained that I'm shy. Also that I'm frustrated with that. She said she understands that, and that's she's getting frustrated with the situation a little bit.
Which isn't surprising. And if I wait it could pretty much end any chances I have. But here's the thing... now she knows I like her. And I know she wants me to ask her out. And that's going to make everything so much easier for me. I was afraid that I had sent her the wrong signals, and that my chances were pretty much shot, so I was afraid to call her. I was afraid they were wrong and she didn't like me. Knowing I was wrong will make it a lot easier to get through my shyness bullshit.
Bonus points if you make it into a joke. "Oh, hey, I'm dying here, but before I shuffle off this mortal coil, I wanted to ask you out for coffee next week when I'm feeling better."
[Here is where she says yes, that'd be great.]
"Cool, I'll find out my work schedule on Friday. I'll give you a call then, okay? Gotta go back to sleep so I'll get better in time for next week, bye!"
This is an excellent line and you should use it.
Also, a lot of good advice floating around. At this point, if you are interested in her and know she is interested in you, just go for it.
The following advice comes up in threads like this occasionally, but it is the single best line of girl advice that I have ever heard: girls are just people like any other.
Many guys, myself included, have this habit of thinking of girls as super-complex and tricky people who we don't understand at all. This is not the case, and in fact they are (usually) quite reasonable. So just be casual and yourself around her when you guys go out. Don't worry about looking silly, just act the way you would with anybody else. You may like her a whole lot, but she's still just a normal person.
For an example of what I'm talking about, let me supply a summary of a conversation I had with a friend a few days ago. He is/was in much the same boat as you - interested in this girl and wanted to ask her out to coffee or something, but he is super shy. The day he was going to ask her, he noticed she had changed her Facebook status from "married to {one of her female friends}" to "single". He immediately panicked and thought this meant she was trying to get with some other guy and wanted the other guy to be able to see she was single.
I informed him that she probably just got bored with it and wanted to change it back to normal. I eventually talked him into giving it a shot, and it turns out I was right. Nothing tricky there.
But she didn't really sound happy or whatever about it. Almost, I dunno... sarcastic?
Bleh. Well, the first step is done. I got over my anxiety enough to actually call her and ask her out. Now for the next step, calling her and setting it up, and then the thirds step, being relatively relaxed and talkative when we do go out. Maybe I should down a couple of red bulls before we go out.
Nah, dont assume the worst. You never know the circumstances of whats going on at the other end of the phone. She might have been halfway through cooking something for example, or about to go out, or already out with people and didnt want to seem rude by staying on the phone too long. So many possibilities. She agreed to come, thats the important bit! Well done dude, good luck with it.
Edit: also, your friends are trying to hook you up, so don't be afraid to ask them what Jen is into. Coffee makes a good first date, but don't make it every date. Asking her works, too. "Do you like music? What kind?" "Where are you from?" Asking about her shows you are interested in her, and when she talks, make a concentrated effort to look at her and listen. You're shy, so your reaction is to look away, but this is a mistake. Looking directly at her (FACE) is a sign of respect. Also make sure you ask romantic questions as well, so it's not like a job interview. Favorite on-screen kiss is a good one. Questions like that clearly state you don't just want to be friends.
And try to make physical contact: a hand on her shoulder or on her lower back, sitting next to her instead of across from her and leaning together as you enjoy your coffee, or if you are feeling up to it, hold her hand.
If you're the sentimental type, I suggest taking a picture of the two of you while you are at the coffee shop. It demonstrates interest to her, and if she asks what you're doing, you can smile sweetly while blushing a bit and say, "It's our first date!" Who knows, too, she might work out, and then you have a wonderful picture to frame five or ten years down the road. "Hey, honey, look what I found on one of my old hard drives!"
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
Oh, I agree. But there is nothing wrong with getting your hopes up. "Hope for the best; prepare for the worst."
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
And the best way to keep conversation going on a first date is to ask her stuff. Don't be under the impression that you have to think up a bunch of cool stuff to say. Asking her questions can lead into some awesome conversations. Good luck man! You'll do great!
Honestly, who does that? Who? ... o_O
She's not testing you dude. As has already been said, it's way too easy to let your mind jump to conclusions and in all likelyness her reaction might have been a bit strange because she's a bit nervous also, or she was with people, or whatever. The simplest answers are usually the case. Don't read too much into these things.
Also, on the physical contact angle - if it is appropriate and being tactile is something you find easy, then obviously go for it. But don't go into a date with the mindset of "OK, this is Date Number 1, I HAVE to succeed in making physical contact," because that's just weird. Judge for yourself what's appropriate.
And this most definitely applies to taking a photo of the two of you. Done inappropriately, and completely out of context, taking a photo of someone can easily come accross as creepy or desperate. Hell, some people are actually quite uncomfortable about having their photos taken...
As I said earlier: just enjoy the date for what it is, not what you're hoping it will turn into. Be confident in yourself and enjoy.
Woha! I was a 100% with delroland up until the red stuff. You're a bit shy and she knows this, it's really no problem at all just trying to get to know her. After all this is your first real date together. I wouldn't suggest anything in the area of trying to connect on a physical level just yet. A strong interest in her thoughts and emotions is really a great way to show you mean business and at the same time showing that you do care about her and really want to get to know her rather than seeing how compatible you are. That stuff will unfold as you go along.
Physical contact is important in showing your interest though, although doing stuff like throwing your arm around her shoulders or touching her lower back might be a bit too much for a first date. Try placing your hand over hers briefly, brushing your fingers against hers, or something equally minor.
So I'm still sick, and I had to call off today. I however did find out when I worked, and figured I'd get stuff straightened out for next week.
Well, my roommate says that Jen and her friend think it would be a good idea if me and him go over to say hi to them before they get off of work. I, being sick enough to call off of work, tell Eric that it's a no go on my part, but to tell Jen hi. He does, and tells me she seemed dissapointed that I didn't show up, and sorry that I was sick.
So I decided to call her. I told her I found out when I was off, told her the days. She works one of them, and the other she's not sure if she works. So I tell her to give me a call when she finds out. But once again she just seemed kinda blah to the whole thing (well, on the phone at least).
But my other roommate brought up a good point. I'm shy and stuff, and I never act excited or anything when she comes over. She's shy and stuff, so maybe she's just doing the same thing. I dunno. Either way, a date is still not set up. Blech.
I dunno. Physical contact is important but IMO not on the first date, the hand on hand is pretty good though. Touching her lower back is pushing it, I would say. My girlfriend agrees (see how I tried to gave my weak arguments and suggestions validity by referring to a girl!).
Well, the major issue here is that DoR is worried that he's not expressing his interest in this girl enough, and he's also worried that she's not expressing enough interest in him because of mutual shyness. The easiest way to show that interest (and a great way to flirt) is to have that physical contact because it sends a clear message of "I want to be more than friends" and it's a natural way of exciting the other person. I would definitely agree that DoR shouldn't go too far with the touching, but since it's pretty clear both these people like each other, it seems like a pretty easy thing to ease into.
The lower back thing, for example. I'm not suggesting you start rubbing her back or anything; what I meant was, when you bend over to put her coffee on the table, try to touch her in a subtle, respectful way as you say, "Here's your coffee." It really makes a difference in setting the general mood.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
Exactly. When I first meet up on a date, I open with a hug and a kiss on the lips. I've had first dates end in various states of undress, and I've also had dates end right then and there. My outlook is that if a girl is attracted to you she's going to want a kiss anyways, and if she isn't attracted then you don't want to spend an awkward hour together finding out. And if she's agreed to a date, it means she's attracted to you. Hey, all the better for both parties that we got that out on the open in the first place. The fact is, the longer it takes for you to get physical with a girl, the more awkward it's going to be until you do it.
Mind you, I'm not suggesting you actually go up and hug her and kiss her on the lips. If you aren't the type of person that usually does it, then it'll seem awkward and forced. That never goes well. Whatever you're feeling, the girl is feeling also. So if you think saying hello to your date with a kiss on the lips is creepy, then she'll pick up on that and think it is creepy too. But if you don't think so, then it won't be creepy. I just wanted to illustrate the point that you don't need to wait until the second or third or fourth or whatever date to get physical. Physical contact is totally normal. Plenty of people are comfortable with handshakes/hugs/kisses/etc as soon as they meet. For DeathofRats, I'd suggest you find whatever level of physicality you're comfortable with, then make sure you stay on the risque border of that. Push yourself to stay on the edge, be it just giving her a warm handshake or saying hello with a hug-back-massage.
I'd suggest a good hug. The kind where there's full body contact from top to bottom, instead of one of those lean in hugs that makes it look like you're both trying to hug above a vat of boiling acid and afraid to fall in. There's not a girl alive who won't smile from a good hug.
I promised updates, so here they are (I'm slightly drunk, so please take what I say as such).
Jen and I went out tonight. It took until last night, but finally we found a night were we could go out to get "coffee" (obviously neither of us have a particular fondness for the drink, but hey, whatever). I put the ball in her court and she responded last night. About 3 hours before the date I got a text message from Eric telling me that this was my last chance, so I better not screw it up.
I had this whole thing planned where I drove to the coffee shop, but instead she drove to a different place (me still being unfamiliar with the area). We got drinks, and then walked the river (there's a river, btw). We walked, talked, and swang on some swings. Then she told me that there was a party planned at my place for later. I didn't make any physical contact. I was afraid to. With this being my "last chance" I decided to play it safe.
The whole thing went ok. I was awkward, but only slightly. I at least talked and opened up some. She dropped me off, and I was kinda unconfident in the way things went.
But then came the party. We watched highlander, me, jen, whatsherface and abby drinking anytime someone drew a sword with intention to do harm. We took shots, and had a good time. Eric and Tim were also there. After the movie ended, we all sat around and talked. Tim went to bed, and eventually Eric and Abby went outside to talk. I decided that it was either now or never, and started to lay my cards out on the table. My plan was to tell her that I liked her, I knew she liked me, and that that was making me act shy around her. The whole thing was going to end with me kissing her, and that would break the tension (spider pig joke needed).
Anyway, Eric and Abby came back in before I finished, and we all hung out for a bit.
Then I decided I liked my balls, and that it was time to use them. I asked Jen upstairs, and upstairs we went. She threw up first, but eventually I laid out everything. I told her about what Eric said, said that threw me off guard, but said that I wanted to move past all that. And then I kissed her. And everything was good.
Pretty much, I made my intentions clear, and in no unmistakable fashion told her how I felt. And then, after we went back downstairs, and she decided she had to go, I did it again.
I followed her to her car, told her "in case you thought that was an accident", and then kissed her again.
Overall, I think this was not only a big night for the two of us, but a big step forward for me. Seriously, I was afraid she'd react negatively to everything I did tonight, but apparently I'm a fool. She's an amazing person, and I get the feeling she might feel the same about me. We're suppose to hang out again tomorrow, and if all goes well, that may bet the last update you get from me.
Good job H&A. This, no matter what happens between Jen and I, is a success story. I think this may be exactly what I needed to get over my shyness... an example of it being unfounded. And I couldn't have done it without your support. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart.
Eww. Did she at least rinse her mouth out or brush her teeth first, because if not, then that's true...okay, no, that's still gross. I'm going to go throw up now.
Not to put a damper on things (what I do best), but see how things go. Be sure you can both do this when sober. You've obviously past a major hurdle, and even if you were drunk it still helps, but you need to try to keep it up and open without the alcohol.
Keep us updated.
Haha good advice.
Also, just a general tip: too much alcohol in your blood ruins good sex.
YES! It's just too hard to finish.