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Choosing a Martial Art
Egos
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I've been flirting around with idea of training in a martial art and was wondering if anyone might be able to help out.
I'm generally looking for something that is a bit more casual/pragmatic in tone (not necessarily in pace) - by this I mean I want something that doesn't require you grunt every time you make a maneuver or something akin to that (and have teachers that are very adamant about this).
Hopefully you get the idea of what kind of things I'm talking about..
Would something more military oriented (say Savate) be the way to go? Or any ideas?
Sorry if I'm being too vague
I'm generally looking for something that is a bit more casual/pragmatic in tone (not necessarily in pace) - by this I mean I want something that doesn't require you grunt every time you make a maneuver or something akin to that (and have teachers that are very adamant about this).
Hopefully you get the idea of what kind of things I'm talking about..
Would something more military oriented (say Savate) be the way to go? Or any ideas?
Sorry if I'm being too vague
Egos on
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Unless we're thinking of two different things.
Capoeira is a very interesting one. I don't know how normal it is, but from what I've read of the school here in town, they actually teach Portugese and learn songs as a part of the training.
I'd recommend against Karate and Taekwondo. It's very hard to find a good school, and the aim may just be to rush you through to get a belt without actually teaching.
Apparently Kung Fu is going through the same wasting process right now, so I'd really recommend against any "Kung Fu" school. Especially if they have a belt system.
Jiu Jitsu and Judo are both excellent arts that, for the most part, have maintained legitimacy in the states.
Savate, Boxing, and the various types of Kickboxing are definitely going to focus almost purely on body and technique, with little of the mental discipline teachings that come with Eastern Martial Arts. The gyms will probably have a more casual approach, and will require you to put more of yourself into them to get more out.
Munacra: I don't know enough of the lingo to say precisely- sorry :i The basic reason I'm looking into is a way to relieve some tension, also basic defense, and to have something extra to do. (I dont think this will be of much help) But a speedy fighting style that relies maybe a fair amount on evasion, and leans more toward arm attacks vs. legs (say maybe a 60/40 split or 70/30 split) seems appealing.
Fantasma: I know someone who did Karate a long time ago....It was really disciplined where I tried it (the "kyah" thing) , but I'm sure there are ways around it. I'll check it out again..
Reducing Stress is the Primary Motivator.
But the other reasons you mentioned are why it seems like a good way to go about it. If you want a 1-4 ranking
1. stress
2. learn to fight
3. balance and coordination
4. better shape
Thanks for the very detailed answer , Glaeal. You've given me a few more ideas on what to research into.
I guess finding a good school is kind of a trial and error thing? Or is the internet a pretty good research?
I'm in a pretty big metropolitan area (Chicago),, so I'm guessing there are a lot of resources..not sure how reliable (in terms of info though)
If you have any questions about a specific school, be sure to post here and ask. There are a lot of martial artists on this forum, and it's usually pretty easy to find out if a school is legitimate or not. Also, keep in mind that any good school/gym should be willing to talk to you pretty extensively about themselves, and most offer a free session. If they aren't willing to, run the hell away.
If "learn to fight" is that high up on your list, make sure you train somewhere with regular full contact sparring. This is very important. It will usually mean that, even if you aren't interested in competing, you will be training in an enviroment where other people are training in order to compete.
Here is a good video on the concept of "aliveness" that somebody posted on the last one of these threads:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoFwwxnM5QM&feature=related
the very beginning of the video is cut out, but the point is he stresses is that you need to train against fully resistant opponents to really learn to apply anything.
If you want some suggestions on some martial arts that will nearly always train this way:
Boxing
Kickboxing, including Muay Thai and San Shou
Wrestling
Brazillian Ju-jitsu
Sambo
Judo
Kukoshin Karate
Mixed Marital Arts
If the president had any real power, he'd be able to live wherever the fuck he wanted.
I started taking classes late last month, and have loved every second of it. It's a really smart, strategic martial art, with you focusing your energies on predicting your opponents' movements and using the their selves against them.
It hasn't even been a month, and I've noticed an improvement in my balance and flexibility.
It's also pretty inexpensive compared to other martial arts. However, you don't get to strike, and that can be a turn-off.
Judo is great, and typically much less expensive than other arts for quality instruction. Plus all decent judo places will do live sparring, so that's good, too.
Yeah, I took Judo way back for a tiny amount of time and really enjoyed it. The only bad thing is that unless you're in the dojo or know someone, doing it at home isn't as easy as other martial arts.
Agreed, for the most part. I spent many years doing Kung Fu, 5 days/week for a few of them. I studied Bak Fu Pai and Je Ying Kuen. I got out of it when I moved. I have looked into getting back into it locally. I firmly believe that 90% or more of the Kung Fu schools around right now are total shit. Lots of bs chi mysticism, some pure fraud and some stupid ass teachers who believe it. Very little in the way of proper full contact sparring.
Disclaimer: I have no direct experience with it, this is all based on talking to people on the internet who seemed to know what they were talking about.
Karate really depends. I believe it is getting better. I highly, highly recommend Kyokushin and Oyama (based on Kyokushin) karate. These are generally trained properly, with full contact sparring, frequently bare knuckle, as I understand it, and basically train you to be a complete bad ass.
He's a freerunner and he claims it helped him be much more aware of his body - he would walk along the street in a more centred stance, for example, and a couple of times when I was walking with him through a crowd you would notice the crowd around him wouldn't be jostling him at all - if anyone walked into him accidentally he'd automatically rebalance himself effortlessly. I don't even think he was aware he was doing it.
If reducing stress is what you're looking for I'd definitely research it.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
I also recommend you take a look at jiu-jitsu. It can be expensive but it's another really strategic martial arts thats geared towards using leverage and technique instead of strength. Alot of places will let you take a free class so you can figure out if it's something you might enjoy.
I've heard amazing things about Tai Chi, but keep in mind that it isn't really a combat martial art.
Tai Chi and Qi Gong (which is probably what Willeth is talking about, though I've never seen that particular spelling of it) are probably the best stress-reducers and balance-builders you can find. But there's no real martial application of either (unless you manage to find one of the rare Tai Chi schools that focuses on martial applications in the U.S.).
Simple, effective, and can get you out of a lot of real life scenarios.
Also suffers from LOTS of instructors who don't know shit about it other than how putting that name up can make them money. Krav Maga is fine and all, but good luck:
1) finding a school that doesn't suck.
2) recognizing that it doesn't suck.
No.
Krav Maga serves no purpose unless you're a soldier, or someone who intends to place themselves in war-like situations. It is not for the casual martial artist, and a lot of the techniques, if actually used in a fight situation, would probably get you thrown in jail with a lawsuit waiting on your release.
Now, if the major metropolitan area he lived in was Tel Aviv, it might be different.
That's not really true. I work with a instructor and it's more than that. It's not really a martial art in a sense, more like a self-defense type of thing. He's been in martial arts for 10+ years and likes this more. When I asked him to compare it with marital arts, he said it's more focused on defending yourself and then running. None of this hit, punch, and kick shit. More like hit em in the throat, stomp their face, run. I got my girlfriend in the class. She had me choke her to show how she's supposed to get out of it. It involves clawing your eyes out. Also, he lives in Chicago. Have you been to Chi? Besides, I'd rather be in jail having to explain myself than lying in the street or a hospital bed. I've had my ass kicked and my bones broken, people don't fight fair. I don't know what art teaches you how to fight several people, but he mentioned several times that Krav Maga does.
That's exactly what I'm talking about. It's not how to deal with yourself in a fight. It's how to fuck someone up and get the hell away. Collapsing someone's windpipe in a fight at a bar is going to get you in some serious fucking trouble. An Ashi Guruma has them on their ass getting laughed at, and you get to spend the night at home.
1. Nearly every fight I've seen has been at grappling range while standing. Rarely do people actually square off.
2. Live sparring is encouraged.
3. It's cheap
4. Most judo places are pretty good.
Might I suggest NINjutsu? (that's right, what those pesky ninja do)
I've been doing it for almost 5 years now after previously doing Karate, TKD and jiu-jutsu and I know exactly where you're coming from. Kiai/kyah/grunts just made me feel a bit uncomfortable in some respects and when I started ninjutsu I realised there was none of that (although sometimes at the higher grades there is) and also the rigidity of Karate and TKD wasn't there, which I really liked.
It may be that I found the perfect style of dojo for me (a Bujinkan Brian Dojo - or BBD - if anyone's familiar with it) but it felt more like the training was more relaxed and more fun (basically I never felt like "oh, I can't be bothered training tonight" because, although it was a hard workout at times, it never felt like a chore).
The whole idea behind it is to avoid fights in the first place, and where unavoidable, how to end the fight quickly - whether through some form of lock to subdue the assailant, or by giving yourself the space you need to get away - and tried to avoid the "this is how you kill someone with your pinky" approach (although they might teach you that too...just in case ;-) )
It covers the use of, and defense against, hand-to-hand sparring, locks, throws, grapples, groundwork and weapons (or tools/extensions, your body is the weapon ;-)) - which basically helps to prepare you for most situations - and tries to provide techniques that you can adapt against different fighting styles/weights/heights etc and also that can be used by different fighting styles/weights/heights etc. So you don't have to be super-fit man-beast to do it...but if you wanna go for that too, you can.
[ /sales pitch]
There are maybe a dozen reputable "Ninjitsu" schools in the US, and they are all connected to Stephen K Hayes, who, to my knowledge, is the only Ninjitsu instructor taken seriously, in the US at least, by the rest of the martial arts community.
Meh. Judo.
Most of what helps you handle yourself in a fight is about core strength, balance, and ability to get hit, and most any martial art that involves contact sparring will give you those things. If I was going to make a suggestion it'd be jiu-jitsu (BJJ or otherwise), because it develops all that stuff in the sort of atmosphere you seem to want, and will eventually work into giving you some tools to actively defend yourself. It's also a big enough deal in the U.S. at this point that you might have more than one or two schools to choose from.
Honestly the ability to reliably handle yourself (in the sense of, stop combat, avoid injury) well enough to not get hurt against someone completely untrained is pretty ubiquitous among arts, in my opinion. Handling yourself reliably against someone who comes at you with either a weapon or training or both is rather a higher bar.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
But, to try and help you out.
A lot of the more traditional eastern Arts have elements of the above, or some people also dont dig the fact that they have the "Art" aspect to them and forget that there is a great deal of culture to them beyond simply learning to fight. Some are "sporty" and some have very distinct styles to differentiate themselves from others. If you go for one of these "Arts" you will find that they all have their functional techniques, but they will have other aspects that are simply for training purposes to aid balance/strength etc. Or they will have stylistic aspects to some moves. A lot of people dont like these traits - some enjoy them more. Examples might be:
Tae Kwon Do
Karate
Kung Fu (the myriad of styles)
Aikido
Capoiera
Similarly - there are styles known more for their ulilitaian nature, or that simply dont have as many of the above elements. Thats not to say that some of these dont have a long and interesting history/culture - but they have more of a rep for being "funtional". If this is your sort of thing - you should look into:
Kick Boxing
Ju Jitsu (Japanese or Brazillian)
Jeet Kune Do
Boxing
Or you could go for the more modern "Fighting Systems" - more of a Western phenomenon.
MMA - Mixed Martial Arts
Krav Maga
etc.
In all honesty - its about personal preference. I'd avoid anyone trying to tell you that anyone that does A could beat anyone doing B. A lot of actual fighting is about the individual. I'd do a little research (wikipedia and youtube can be good) then dont be afraid to visit and observe a lot of classes to see what you think looks like your groove.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
And now for a small but relevant, imo, rant.
I'm not big on the whole "martial arts to avoid a fight" thing. I know it's a popular idea among many of th e eastern martial arts schools, but I don't buy it. I am always worried that schools pushing that message are not teaching students properly. Martial arts are so that if your fight avoiding skills fail you, you can avoid minimize your own injuries, end the fight quickly, and hopefully be able to hurt the other guy bad enough that you can get away and that he won't want to continue the fight - now or later, and yet deal the damage in an appropriate manner, with an appropriate amount of force that is not going to get your ass sued or thrown in jail.
If you want to avoid fights, practice long distance sprinting, free running, verbally calming people down, and not being a dick who makes people want to kick your ass in the first place.
Although I'm currently taking private lessons from a guy in Fencing. Hes also a blackbelt in Karate and mentioned this, something along the lines the "Kyah" and breathing - I didn't get the exact science.
This is really good advice. In all honesty even if you think you are interested in a particular martial art you may not dig the way classes are run at the schools near you. I would definitely get together a list of things you are interested in and go and sit and watch or take a free intro class at each of the places by you. Atmosphere is everything for me. I've trained at a bunch of different schools and the reason I love the one I'm at now so much is because everyone is respectful, and the bullshit trash talk just doesn't exist. People try and help each other get better instead of trying to prove they can kick the shit out of everyone else all the time.
Be on the lookout for bullshit - or what we call "Stocky White Man" syndrome.
So you want a speedy fighting style that relies on a fair amount of evasion, leans towards arm attacks, relieves tension, and give basic defense skills... sounds like boxing might be a good fit for you.
speedy fighting style - Although there are various styles in boxing, most techniques utilizes quick punches and body movements.
Fair amount of evasion - Learning to evade a punch is one of the most important things you'll learn in boxing. You'll learn to slip, duck, weave, and to utilize proper footwork to avoid getting punched.
Leans towards arm attacks - Boxing is all about delivering attacks using your fists.
1. Punching things can be a great way to relieve stress and tension. You get to punch a lot of things in boxing: heavy bags, pads, speed bags, other boxers, etc...
2. You'll learn to throw a punch in an effective manner and minimize damage to your hands if you ever need to use it. Throwing a proper punch a lot harder than it looks. Even getting a basic jab down will take some time. You'll learn how to throw combinations, learn footwork to get angles, learn how to move when mounting an offense, learn how to move while protecting your body, learn how to slip, bob, weave, feint, and evade attacks.
3. You'll learn boxing footwork which will maximize your balance as you move around. Footwork will help you maintain your balance when throwing or evading punches. Boxing is extremely technical and you'll definitely improve your coordination. When you throw that perfect punch, your body will know, everything will just flow.
4. You will definitely get in shape. Have you ever jump roped for 20 minutes straight? Thrown a thousand punches in a row? Shadow boxed or punched and evaded pads? Sparred several 3 minute rounds with only 30 seconds to rest in between? These are all thing you'll end up doing in a typical boxing training session.
The other reason to look into boxing, it's fairly cheap. Initially you'll probably only need hand wraps, shoes, and a jump rope. Once you learn the basics you can buy yourself some cheap training gloves. Once you start sparring, all you'll really need is a mouth piece and some cheap sparring gloves.
If you want to learn a grappling art, I highly recommend Brazilian Jui-jitsu. It's an absolute blast and its a great way to expand both your body and mind. It's an extremely cerebral activity where you're basically playing a physical chess match against your opponent as you battle for position and control. BJJ gyms are usually a little bit pricier than boxing gyms but they also don't require much equipment. BJJ gis (the uniform you wear when training) can be a little expensive, but you can make do by using a cheap judo gi. Many BJJ gyms also offer "No-Gi" classes where the techniques are modified for use without a gi. The one thing you definitely want to consider investing in if you go into BJJ is a good rashguard otherwise be prepared for major matburns. Many gyms will let you attend a class for free so you really don't have anything to lose by checking it out.
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How intensive is the training for Judo? If I decided to take it, could I substitute my Judo classes for my work outs at the gym, or would I need to do a mix of the two? Keep in mind I would be aiming to still shed some pounds and build at least some muscle.