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Old games: Are they shit?
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I tried out Double D Dogeball on XBL last night. It is not retro, but uses retro visuals and sound to create what must be the stupidest game I've played in ages.
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That's why no one plays poker these days, that game's for geezers from the cowboy days. Everyone plays Scene It! and other games that make use of new technology.
Fallout definitely falls into this category for me, as do a lot of older PC and even SNES games. The thing I have the hardest time with is trying to go back and play PS1 games, because damn are those primitive polygons ugly as hell.
But enough bagging on older games. Let's talk about what makes a game timeless. I'd say there are 3 major categories.
1 - Simple, perfected fun. Games like Pac-Man: Championship Edition & Lumines would fall under this category. Sure, these games aren't much more complex than your average Flash game, but every aspect of the game has been fine-tuned to the point where there's not much you could do to improve them in a major way.
2 - Great games that haven't been obsoleted yet. These are games that could easily be improved upon if a skilled development team actually set out to do so, but nobody's bothered so far. Something like Master of Magic would fall under this category: the graphics & interface are ancient, but nobody's bothered to make a better Fantasy/Civilization hybrid since then. I'd also put most the JRPG genre in general under this category: the reason why so many 16-bit JRPGs are considered highly playable even today has less to do with the quality of those games and more to do with the fact that the genre hasn't evolved much since then.
3 - Games as art. These are games that have an artistic vision. Even if the gameplay in similar games advances to the point of rendering them mostly obsolete as games (see Silent Hill 2), they're still worth playing for their artistic vision. Games like Rez, Shadow of the Colossus, Portal, and Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter would fall under this category.
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This post is by and large off topic, but is about H:UD so should be allowed.
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I picked up Art of Fighting and Fatal Fury at TRU for like, $4 each. Those collections have about three or four games in it that would cost hundreds of dollars if you purchased them on their original console.
Then we have the Mega Man collections (Classic and X), Street Fighter Anniversary, Sega collections, Capcom collections, Devil May Cry, Metal Gear Solid, and so on. It's easy to see that's where "retro" gaming is going.
Five or ten years down the road, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of our newest games packaged into one pack for a low price (Bioware RPG collection, anyone?).
There is this little bunch of people that think people who enjoy these old games are complete idiots.
I think that's ridiculous. Look, most old games are shit. But guess what? Most new games are shit too.
The fact is, if a game has a great, well-executed gameplay mechanic, then it is going to stand the test of time. Yes, the graphics may age, but it can still be fun to play. Heck, if graphics are well executed, even those can stand the test of time.
Just because most old games are shit doesn't mean that all old games are shit, and it doesn't mean that you're an idiot because you like to play the good ones.
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Read: Wind Waker.
Yup.
One of my classes got canceled so I had like 4 hours of straight downtime between classes yesterday. There was never less then five people standing around the Street Fighter III machine and for those 4 solid hours there was never a moment when there weren't two people playing against each other.
To throw further fuel on the old games are good fire, there are people that still swear by Street Fighter II and play it to this very day.
And that's what I was going for. Street Fighter II or III are good because they are well-crafted games, not because they are old games. There are plenty of games from the same era, even other fighting games, that are utter arse. They might've sold well or been popular at the time, but are rubbish now. Then you get one or two, as you will today, that will still stand out in years to come.
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I picked up Street Fighter III for the first time about a year and a half ago, and it's much older then that. (not sure how old, exactly).
But yeah, it can be very tough to go back to an older game without that extra push from nostalgia.
I don't think anybody here is arguing that certain games are good because they're old, they're good because they're well-made and just happen to be old.
But the opposite also exists. Like me, I was like "Ooh, this new Fallout game looks pretty cool and GameTap just got the first one, let's give it a try!" and then giving up after a couple hours because I just wasn't having much fun. The clunky interface and old graphics ruined the game for me.
EDIT: I don't hate old games, but I have enough trouble finding enough time to try to keep up with all of the worthwhile new games. An old game has to be truly exceptional (or have major nostalgia value for me) for it to find its way in my schedule.
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Because if you say, for example, Jet Grind Radio is shit you're full of said shit.
Same goes for Kirby's Adventure.
Of course. Not everyone is going to like something just because it's considered a classic. I'd certainly not argue otherwise.
For the most part, I prefer retro games and newer games that adhere to concepts gleaned from the classics. I also prefer 2D games to 3D games, and I think most games should have bosses. Whenever I hear people say things like "There's no reason to produce 2D games for the current generation of hardware" or "Bosses are an outdated concept", I get highly ticked off.
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Yes, a great deal in fact. I just happened to be watching some interviews last night on G4 On Demand on Street Fighter 4 and the main focus the people behind it have is to keep it like SF2. I can remember the guy's name but he said that if someone says that this game plays like SF2, then he considers it a great compliment.
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I just can't comprehend this mind set. Even the best, most enjoyable game becomes tiresome for me after so long spent playing it. At that point it's only good for the very occasional replay.
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If a game is deep and nuanced enough it's replayability approaches infinity. For some, at least.
It has definitely increased.
Some games can mask over poor design choices with incredible (for the launch period) graphics and effect.
Clearly, these games become redundant years later.
I'd imagine a lot of games right now will fall into that trap so easily when their visuals are nothing more than the 8 bit pixels of yore.
If we are just talking about games aimed at "gamers" then I'd say the ratio is the same.
Old game does = Pitfall
At any rate, I agree that this is all very silly.
Two weeks ago, my best friend and I sat down in front of the TV and had an absolute blast playing King of Fighters '94 on the Virtual Console, and that's not even a particularly good older game!
It's true that people who seek out older games won't be as numerous as people who want the latest and shiniest, but that's true of all media, so who cares?
I agree. I think that now that we have the Internet it's much easier to see what games are shit than we did when we were kids. I know when I was a kid, the only selling point for a game was the cover (or if I knew who was in the game: TMNT, Mario, etc). Unfortunately that made for a LOT of terrible games.
I think you were looking for
Edit: sorry, was way hueger than I thought.
Also, NBA Jam Tournament Edition. Timeless.
And no, I will not play with turbo on. Or with the hotspots, you heathen.
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I know what you mean.
N64 is not 'old nintendo'. the fucking megadrive/genesis is not 'classic sega'.
Final Fantasy 7 is not old final fantasy. heck, ill bet 90% of the FF fanbase have not played any of the games 1 thru 6 or even heard of them outside of the logical assumption that 7 was the 7th one in the series.
God damn, i love that game.