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It's Banned Books Week. Go Read One To Spite Sarah.

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Posts

  • JustinSane07JustinSane07 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2010
    Is there an actual group saying what books they want banned and giving the reason?

    The ALA just collects all the ban requests from American libraries and makes a top-ten most requested list. Like TRL for the close-minded.

    That's pretty neat of the ALA to do that. I'd like to see some of the stranger ones, personally.

    "Jurassic Park," by Michael Crichton
    Reasons: Violent, Transgender Issues, Not Suitable For Age Group, "Clever Girl"

  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2010
    Ugh, Twilight? That seems like it makes a mockery of the whole list.

    Including Stephanie Meyer in anything reduces the quality level of it as a whole.

    edit: Although if it's "most requested books to be banned" it makes a little more sense.


    But still, there's a zillion books with far "worse" content and many that are more prolific than things on this list.

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  • JustinSane07JustinSane07 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2010
    Looking through the list, in 2003, I came across this one.

    Arming America: The Origins of a National Gun Culture, by Michael Bellesiles
    Reason: inaccuracy

    That actually doesn't seem like a bad reason to have a book banned. If you publish, what I'm assuming, is a book abotu the history of guns in America and your facts are all completely wrong then maybe it should be pulled. You're no longer removing an idea or a thought but rather a bunch of lies. It showed up the next year with now "political viewpoint" added to the list of reasons then vanished.

    Of course then this one infuriated me from 2005

    It’s Perfectly Normal: Changing Bodies, Growing Up, Sex, and Sexual Health, by Robie H. Harris
    Reasons: abortion, homosexuality, nudity, religious viewpoint, sex education, unsuited to age group

    Yes, because a book aimed at pre-teens and young teens, I'm guessing, is unsuited to the age group when it's attempting to educate them. We let children read Everybody Poops when they go through toilet training, right? I guess a book about shitting is unsuited to children too. Better stop that! It was No. 1 in 2005 and then never showed up in the list again.

    Lastly, this one from 2008 made me hope.

    Bless Me, Ultima, by Rudolfo Anaya
    Reasons: occult/satanism, offensive language, religious viewpoint, sexually explicit, and violence

    Pleeeeaaasseeee someone tell me this is a book about Ultima Online.

  • YamiNoSenshiYamiNoSenshi Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Lastly, this one from 2008 made me hope.

    Bless Me, Ultima, by Rudolfo Anaya
    Reasons: occult/satanism, offensive language, religious viewpoint, sexually explicit, and violence

    Pleeeeaaasseeee someone tell me this is a book about Ultima Online.
    When a curandera comes to stay with a young boy, he tests the bonds that tie him to his culture and finds himself in the secrets of the past.

    Sorry dude.

    Damn it, it's fucking noon. I demand to know if Yami shit on a desk yet.
  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2010
    The problem of pulling something like that Arming America book is it starts a big rush of people claiming other things are "lies" and "incorrect" and need to be pulled. Having not read the thing it's hard to give more concrete examples into that though.

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  • BobCescaBobCesca Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I just hate the idea of any book being removed from a library.

    I mean, if a parent doesn't want their kid to read certain books 'cos they feel the themes are too adult, then it's the parent's responsibility to monitor that, not for the libraries to remove anything that someone might find objectionable.

    I mean, really, this is ridiculous. If a parent doesn't want their child to read or see certain things and are that vehement about it, then they have to do something themselves. It's like the parent complaining about violence in videogames affecting their 6 year old child, but still buying them games rated 18.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Looking through the list, in 2003, I came across this one.

    Arming America: The Origins of a National Gun Culture, by Michael Bellesiles
    Reason: inaccuracy

    That actually doesn't seem like a bad reason to have a book banned. If you publish, what I'm assuming, is a book abotu the history of guns in America and your facts are all completely wrong then maybe it should be pulled. You're no longer removing an idea or a thought but rather a bunch of lies. It showed up the next year with now "political viewpoint" added to the list of reasons then vanished.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arming_America:_The_Origins_of_a_National_Gun_Culture
    Arming America: The Origins of a National Gun Culture (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 2000) by Michael A. Bellesiles is the only book in the history of the prestigious Bancroft Prize to have had the award rescinded, which occurred when Columbia University's Board of Trustees decided that Bellesiles had "violated basic norms of scholarship and the high standards expected of Bancroft Prize winners."[1]
    Historians who initially admired Arming America ceased to defend Bellesiles. The nationally prominent historian Garry Wills, who had enthusiastically reviewed Arming America for the New York Times,[25] later said, in a 2005 interview on C-SPAN, "I was took. The book is a fraud." Wills noted that Bellesiles "claimed to have consulted archives he didn't and he misrepresented those archives," although "he didn't have to do that," since "he had a lot of good, solid evidence." Wills added, "People get taken by very good con men."[26]

    Historian Roger Lane, who had reviewed the book positively in the Journal of American History,[27] offered a similar opinion: "It is entirely clear to me that he's made up a lot of these records. He's betrayed us. He's betrayed the cause. It's 100 percent clear that the guy is a liar and a disgrace to my profession. He's breached that trust."[28] Historian Pauline Maier reflected that it seemed historians had "ceased to read carefully and critically, even in the awarding of book prizes."[29]

    As Hoffer concluded, "Bellesiles's condemnation by Emory University, the trustees of the Bancroft Prizes, and Knopf provided the gun lobby with information to blast the entire history profession....Even though H-Law, the Omohundro Institute, the OAH, and the AHA rushed to his side and stated principled objections to the politicization of history, they hesitated to ask the equally important question of whether he had manipulated them and betrayed their trust."[30]

  • JustinSane07JustinSane07 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2010
    Yup, reading that is a good reason to have a book pulled.

  • HachfaceHachface Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    My high school library always celebrated banned book week. There was a special display for banned books and everything.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Couscous wrote: »
    Looking through the list, in 2003, I came across this one.

    Arming America: The Origins of a National Gun Culture, by Michael Bellesiles
    Reason: inaccuracy

    That actually doesn't seem like a bad reason to have a book banned. If you publish, what I'm assuming, is a book abotu the history of guns in America and your facts are all completely wrong then maybe it should be pulled. You're no longer removing an idea or a thought but rather a bunch of lies. It showed up the next year with now "political viewpoint" added to the list of reasons then vanished.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arming_America:_The_Origins_of_a_National_Gun_Culture
    Arming America: The Origins of a National Gun Culture (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 2000) by Michael A. Bellesiles is the only book in the history of the prestigious Bancroft Prize to have had the award rescinded, which occurred when Columbia University's Board of Trustees decided that Bellesiles had "violated basic norms of scholarship and the high standards expected of Bancroft Prize winners."[1]
    Historians who initially admired Arming America ceased to defend Bellesiles. The nationally prominent historian Garry Wills, who had enthusiastically reviewed Arming America for the New York Times,[25] later said, in a 2005 interview on C-SPAN, "I was took. The book is a fraud." Wills noted that Bellesiles "claimed to have consulted archives he didn't and he misrepresented those archives," although "he didn't have to do that," since "he had a lot of good, solid evidence." Wills added, "People get taken by very good con men."[26]

    Historian Roger Lane, who had reviewed the book positively in the Journal of American History,[27] offered a similar opinion: "It is entirely clear to me that he's made up a lot of these records. He's betrayed us. He's betrayed the cause. It's 100 percent clear that the guy is a liar and a disgrace to my profession. He's breached that trust."[28] Historian Pauline Maier reflected that it seemed historians had "ceased to read carefully and critically, even in the awarding of book prizes."[29]

    As Hoffer concluded, "Bellesiles's condemnation by Emory University, the trustees of the Bancroft Prizes, and Knopf provided the gun lobby with information to blast the entire history profession....Even though H-Law, the Omohundro Institute, the OAH, and the AHA rushed to his side and stated principled objections to the politicization of history, they hesitated to ask the equally important question of whether he had manipulated them and betrayed their trust."[30]

    And yet John Lott still gets his books out into stores and libraries. Which really says it all.

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  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    BobCesca wrote: »
    I mean, really, this is ridiculous. If a parent doesn't want their child to read or see certain things and are that vehement about it, then they have to do something themselves. It's like the parent complaining about violence in videogames affecting their 6 year old child, but still buying them games rated 18.

    I agree. If my daughter (if I had a daughter) started reading Twilight and began pining for a dreamy stalker to sweep her away and break her pelvis in sacred sexual intercourse after marriage I will have failed as a dad.

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  • BobCescaBobCesca Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    DoctorArch wrote: »
    BobCesca wrote: »
    I mean, really, this is ridiculous. If a parent doesn't want their child to read or see certain things and are that vehement about it, then they have to do something themselves. It's like the parent complaining about violence in videogames affecting their 6 year old child, but still buying them games rated 18.

    I agree. If my daughter (if I had a daughter) started reading Twilight and began pining for a dreamy stalker to sweep her away and break her pelvis in sacred sexual intercourse after marriage I will have failed as a dad.

    I am sleepy - is this sarcasm or agreeing? I can't tell.

  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    BobCesca wrote: »
    DoctorArch wrote: »
    BobCesca wrote: »
    I mean, really, this is ridiculous. If a parent doesn't want their child to read or see certain things and are that vehement about it, then they have to do something themselves. It's like the parent complaining about violence in videogames affecting their 6 year old child, but still buying them games rated 18.

    I agree. If my daughter (if I had a daughter) started reading Twilight and began pining for a dreamy stalker to sweep her away and break her pelvis in sacred sexual intercourse after marriage I will have failed as a dad.

    I am sleepy - is this sarcasm or agreeing? I can't tell.

    Totally agreeing. If my daughter enjoys Twilight I will consider myself to be a failed parent. I am absolutely serious here.

    Edit: An exception could be made for "I know it's bad but I enjoy it anyway." I can appreciate that excuse.

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  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    So who creates this list?

    Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    So who creates this list?

    041609teaparty_w300.jpg

    sig.jpg
  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I'm constantly shocked that books don't have some sort of rating system, it seems like everything else does.

    camo_sig2.png
  • HachfaceHachface Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Tomanta wrote: »
    I'm constantly shocked that books don't have some sort of rating system, it seems like everything else does.

    This would be a nightmare to implement.

  • RUNN1NGMANRUNN1NGMAN Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Looking through the list, in 2003, I came across this one.

    Arming America: The Origins of a National Gun Culture, by Michael Bellesiles
    Reason: inaccuracy

    That actually doesn't seem like a bad reason to have a book banned. If you publish, what I'm assuming, is a book abotu the history of guns in America and your facts are all completely wrong then maybe it should be pulled. You're no longer removing an idea or a thought but rather a bunch of lies. It showed up the next year with now "political viewpoint" added to the list of reasons then vanished.

    Yeah, I don't really know if "banning" is the correct term when people ask for a book to be pulled because it is full of fabrication and unfounded statements, masquerading as a scholarly work. That book is pretty much the poster child for the need to check footnotes and endnotes prior to publication to make sure they say what the author says they say.

  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    So who creates this list?

    041609teaparty_w300.jpg

    The Tea Party, a group of people who say they have no leader, somehow came together to create a top 10 list?

    Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    So who creates this list?

    041609teaparty_w300.jpg

    The Tea Party, a group of people who say they have no leader, somehow came together to create a top 10 list?

    I should say they fuel this list.

    sig.jpg
  • Alchemist449Alchemist449 Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    The masturbation scene in the Color Purple gave me whiplash. I don't like the book for other reasons, but man, that came out of nowhere.

  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    So who creates this list?

    041609teaparty_w300.jpg

    The Tea Party, a group of people who say they have no leader, somehow came together to create a top 10 list?

    I should say they fuel this list.

    So what you're saying is you have no idea who made this.

    Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    So who creates this list?

    Are you talking about the list of most challenged books? That is created by librarians through their national and worldwide associations. When a book is challenged in a particular library, the librarian reports the challenged title.

    The word "challenged" is importantly used rather than "banned" because most book challenges fail, and often the most challenged books are also the most successfully defended ones (ie: Huckleberry Finn gets challenged all the time, yet it is almost never removed from a library because, duh.)

    -edit-

    I don't even know why I bothered to try explaining this because unsurprisingly the ALA website explains itself much better than I could.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    So who creates this list?

    041609teaparty_w300.jpg

    The Tea Party, a group of people who say they have no leader, somehow came together to create a top 10 list?

    I should say they fuel this list.

    So what you're saying is you have no idea who made this.

    The ALA constructs the list from information they gather.

    Be nice.

    sig.jpg
  • YamiNoSenshiYamiNoSenshi Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    The important thing is:

    For one week, you can read something out of spite.

    Damn it, it's fucking noon. I demand to know if Yami shit on a desk yet.
  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    This reminded me that Palin's been around for two years. :(

    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Reading out of spite... Is there a better reason?

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  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Hachface wrote: »
    Tomanta wrote: »
    I'm constantly shocked that books don't have some sort of rating system, it seems like everything else does.

    This would be a nightmare to implement.

    No doubt. I'm just surprised there hasn't been a move to do at least an "Explicit material" sticker like music has.

    camo_sig2.png
  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    This reminded me that Palin's been around for two years. :(

    She's been around a lot longer than that, we just didn't know about her.

    camo_sig2.png
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    RUNN1NGMAN wrote: »
    Looking through the list, in 2003, I came across this one.

    Arming America: The Origins of a National Gun Culture, by Michael Bellesiles
    Reason: inaccuracy

    That actually doesn't seem like a bad reason to have a book banned. If you publish, what I'm assuming, is a book abotu the history of guns in America and your facts are all completely wrong then maybe it should be pulled. You're no longer removing an idea or a thought but rather a bunch of lies. It showed up the next year with now "political viewpoint" added to the list of reasons then vanished.

    Yeah, I don't really know if "banning" is the correct term when people ask for a book to be pulled because it is full of fabrication and unfounded statements, masquerading as a scholarly work. That book is pretty much the poster child for the need to check footnotes and endnotes prior to publication to make sure they say what the author says they say.

    Going back to my earlier comment, did More Guns, Less Crime make the list as well?

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  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Tomanta wrote: »
    This reminded me that Palin's been around for two years. :(

    She's been around a lot longer than that, we just didn't know about her.

    It's not like I thought she just materialized from the ether.

    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Tomanta wrote: »
    This reminded me that Palin's been around for two years. :(

    She's been around a lot longer than that, we just didn't know about her.

    It's not like I thought she just materialized from the ether.

    Well she does believe in creationism.

    sig.jpg
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Tomanta wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Tomanta wrote: »
    I'm constantly shocked that books don't have some sort of rating system, it seems like everything else does.

    This would be a nightmare to implement.

    No doubt. I'm just surprised there hasn't been a move to do at least an "Explicit material" sticker like music has.

    Maybe there hasn't because the explicit sticker has become somewhat of a joke in the music industry...

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    So who creates this list?

    Are you talking about the list of most challenged books? That is created by librarians through their national and worldwide associations. When a book is challenged in a particular library, the librarian reports the challenged title.

    The word "challenged" is importantly used rather than "banned" because most book challenges fail, and often the most challenged books are also the most successfully defended ones (ie: Huckleberry Finn gets challenged all the time, yet it is almost never removed from a library because, duh.)

    -edit-

    I don't even know why I bothered to try explaining this because unsurprisingly the ALA website explains itself much better than I could.

    It's only documented challenges which don't even account for the majority of book challenges which occur. This also ignores any of the numerous issues of self-censorship that can occur by librarians/directors for a variety of reasons as there is no paper trail to keep an eye on and nobody likes to talk about for obvious reasons.

    tea-1.jpg
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    So who creates this list?

    041609teaparty_w300.jpg

    If you think it's only Republicans who make challenges you'd do well to spend more time at your local library.

    tea-1.jpg
  • TL DRTL DR Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    DoctorArch wrote: »
    Is it wrong that I would love to see Twilight banned because its insufferable garbage? It's not that I want to ban a book, it's just too similar to seeing someone hitting themselves in the face repeatedly.

    Twilight is probably a worse influence than any other book on that list, because it teaches girls that extremely dependent and stalker-ish relationships are not only okay, but the ideal.

    Banning only makes a book popular. It can to be better used as a way to broach the topic of healthy/unhealthy relationships to young people, especially young girls.

    eokNV.jpg
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    "Girls, if an adult starts acting like Edward, call the police."

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