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[WAR]: White Cloaks are the New Black

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Posts

  • grrarggrrarg Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Cryogen wrote: »
    I think its a major issue that there isnt really any incentive to defend at this point, other than preventing the other team from getting their incentive for attacking.

    Presently, you're better off letting the other team just take your keep uncontested, so its over as quickly as possible and you can retake it to claim your rewards. Thats pretty silly.

    This only applies in T3 and lower, like most of the open RvR problems you guys talk about. Things change in T4 when zone control matters.

    Sunday on Ulthuan there was extensive fighting in Praag. Even though Order vastly outnumbered Destruction, Order was not able to cap the zone because Destro killed lots of them every time they took a keep. We also backcapped and defended Battlefield Objectives for a lot of renown.

    If you play a game and then are able to spend pages debating with someone on the actions of a faction within that game you probably just played a pretty sweet game.
  • Paradox ControlParadox Control Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=380
    1.0.3 OUT TOMORROW.

    Quick Gold Spam Report command
    Regional Chat System

    and more. Check the link.

    3jDBY.png
    (currently MIA)
  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    playing t2 without a healing debuff suuuucks

  • KajustaKajusta Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Damn they are fast on those patches.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    XBL
  • KagnarosKagnaros Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Ledneh wrote: »
    Oh wait, here's one

    Make the Keep Lord a "Kill Collector" like I said but ALSO make there be a reactive PQ in the area. Like a timer for X minutes starts when the door is attacked (not the guards--the keep attack warnings should be changed this way too, I feel, too many false positives), and resets whenever a door or Lord or whatever is attacked. If the timer successfully expires (i.e. the attackers give up), defenders in the area win loot according to the usual PQ rules. And at any time they can make turnins to the lord for kills and such.

    This is a really good idea.

    Mark Jacobs needs to lurk this thread along with VN and WarAlliance too.

    fss.png
  • KajustaKajusta Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Seriously.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    XBL
  • grrarggrrarg Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    They are putting Blizzard, SOE, and the other companies to shame. Weekly patches and almost daily hotfixes is unprecedented in MMOs.

    Can't wait to see the first class balance patch. Should make for some entertaining reading at work. The forums will be filled with tears and gloating.

    If you play a game and then are able to spend pages debating with someone on the actions of a faction within that game you probably just played a pretty sweet game.
  • CryogenCryogen Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    grrarg wrote: »
    Cryogen wrote: »
    I think its a major issue that there isnt really any incentive to defend at this point, other than preventing the other team from getting their incentive for attacking.

    Presently, you're better off letting the other team just take your keep uncontested, so its over as quickly as possible and you can retake it to claim your rewards. Thats pretty silly.

    This only applies in T3 and lower, like most of the open RvR problems you guys talk about. Things change in T4 when zone control matters.

    Sunday on Ulthuan there was extensive fighting in Praag. Even though Order vastly outnumbered Destruction, Order was not able to cap the zone because Destro killed lots of them every time they took a keep. We also backcapped and defended Battlefield Objectives for a lot of renown.

    You havent actually disputed my point at all though. What did you get for defending? Other than the grim satisfaction of denying your opponents their incentives? The only incentive is avoiding the penalty for losing ground, ie eventually, your city. And the meagre xp/renown you would have gained regardless of whether it was an open field skirmish or a fight over a keep.

  • RainfallRainfall Subcommander Argon CityRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    grrarg wrote: »
    They are putting Blizzard, SOE, and the other companies to shame. Weekly patches and almost daily hotfixes is unprecedented in MMOs.

    Can't wait to see the first class balance patch. Should make for some entertaining reading at work. The forums will be filled with tears and gloating.

    Not entirely unprecedented. Guild Wars had an amazing patch team, and at release any major bug was fixed within minutes of being reported. There were a few dozen patches on the first day.
    (Thanks to the nature of the game itself, this wasn't particularly inconvenient for anyone playing, either)

  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    guild wars seemed pretty cool. wonder what happened to all that

  • SaerisSaeris Chronogestaltist Trinity, New MexicoRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Accualt wrote: »
    The FPS annalogy is absolutely horrible because you don't level up in FPSes. Even in the very few that you do, such as RB6V or CoD4, you can level up your character (acount) on ANY server. This is not the case with MMOs. About the only way you could make what you purpose work is to turn RvR lakes into instanced scenario style things that only allow X number of players in but that would kill the whole point of RvR whiel destroying the feeling of war.
    Endomatic wrote: »
    How is Swordmaster? All the talk says horrible, but I'd like to hear from someone who's played them a bit.

    I haven't played one but I have played against many. They are bastards. Hard to kill, but not as hard to kill as an IB. Of course they also seem to do plenty more damage than an IB. They also have annoying utility powers. Basically they remind me of Ryu, balanced with a little lean towards offense. Blorcs feel more like Ken, balanced with a little lean towards defense.

    Meanwhile, bright wizards are Gill?

    Nlgya.png
  • SoundwaveSoundwave Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Saeris wrote: »
    Accualt wrote: »
    The FPS annalogy is absolutely horrible because you don't level up in FPSes. Even in the very few that you do, such as RB6V or CoD4, you can level up your character (acount) on ANY server. This is not the case with MMOs. About the only way you could make what you purpose work is to turn RvR lakes into instanced scenario style things that only allow X number of players in but that would kill the whole point of RvR whiel destroying the feeling of war.
    Endomatic wrote: »
    How is Swordmaster? All the talk says horrible, but I'd like to hear from someone who's played them a bit.

    I haven't played one but I have played against many. They are bastards. Hard to kill, but not as hard to kill as an IB. Of course they also seem to do plenty more damage than an IB. They also have annoying utility powers. Basically they remind me of Ryu, balanced with a little lean towards offense. Blorcs feel more like Ken, balanced with a little lean towards defense.

    Meanwhile, bright wizards are Gill?

    Dhalsim.

    spritesig.gif
  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    what order class has a healing debuff in t2?

  • zilozilo Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Kagnaros wrote: »
    Ledneh wrote: »
    Oh wait, here's one

    Make the Keep Lord a "Kill Collector" like I said but ALSO make there be a reactive PQ in the area. Like a timer for X minutes starts when the door is attacked (not the guards--the keep attack warnings should be changed this way too, I feel, too many false positives), and resets whenever a door or Lord or whatever is attacked. If the timer successfully expires (i.e. the attackers give up), defenders in the area win loot according to the usual PQ rules. And at any time they can make turnins to the lord for kills and such.

    This is a really good idea.

    Mark Jacobs needs to lurk this thread along with VN and WarAlliance too.

    That IS a really good idea. Ledneh, write a letter or something.

  • LednehLedneh shinesquawk Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    It was mostly Accualt's idea, make him do it

    (I'll write a feedback before I go to bed)

    Kadith wrote: »
    how do i get off [the bus], do i just start screaming
    well that'll get me off at least.
  • RainfallRainfall Subcommander Argon CityRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    tyrannus wrote: »
    guild wars seemed pretty cool. wonder what happened to all that

    It's still going, although the userbase has turned pretty stale, and thanks to some poor design decisions there is a HUGE split between PvE and PvP players, and lots of arguments between both groups. Both are also terribly elitist now.

    Guild Wars 2 is looking strong, and it seems like it's keeping a lot of the things that made GW so great.

  • MorkathMorkath Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    tyrannus wrote: »
    what order class has a healing debuff in t2?

    Shadow warrior, shadow sting in the skirmish tree.


    Also guild wars is still doing pretty well, I was playing it about a year ago. Still very cookie cutter and flavour of the week pvp though.

    hobbessig.png
  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Guild Wars came out when I didn't have a very stable internet connection. Once you got DC'd, you couldn't get back into instances. The whole game is instanced. D:

    Kansas City Hotsteppers, represent.

    Not an MMO, though.

    1208768734831.jpg
  • CryogenCryogen Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    tyrannus wrote: »
    what order class has a healing debuff in t2?

    Shadow Warrior could spec for it, but only at level 21.

    ed - wow, beaten. Why are so many people posting at this time of the day??? Whats wrong with you people!!!

  • SaerisSaeris Chronogestaltist Trinity, New MexicoRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    So I wonder if 1.0.3 fixes any of the memory leaks still plaguing the client. I actually finally got into Doomfist Crater for the first time yesterday, only to experience my characteristic "crash after 2.5 hours" issue right in the middle of the match. I can only assume this particular incidence of the problem was divine punishment for having forsaken, earlier that day, the joys of being helplessly punted into boiling magma over and over and over.

    Nlgya.png
  • MorkathMorkath Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Cryogen wrote: »
    tyrannus wrote: »
    what order class has a healing debuff in t2?

    Shadow Warrior could spec for it, but only at level 21.

    ed - wow, beaten. Why are so many people posting at this time of the day??? Whats wrong with you people!!!

    It's only 9:45pm :P

    hobbessig.png
  • KajustaKajusta Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Saeris wrote: »
    So I wonder if 1.0.3 fixes any of the memory leaks still plaguing the client. I actually finally got into Doomfist Crater for the first time yesterday, only to experience my characteristic "crash after 2.5 hours" issue right in the middle of the match. I can only assume this particular incidence of the problem was divine punishment for having forsaken, earlier that day, the joys of being helplessly punted into boiling magma over and over and over.

    Yeah, I don't think they've optimized a lot of the t3-t4 stuff yet.

    Seems that I lag waaaaay more in Tor Anroc than any other scenario, and I run on all low. Hopefully this new shader cache thing will help.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    XBL
  • LednehLedneh shinesquawk Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    OK so here's what I'm sending by the Feedback form on their website you all should do the same by going to http://herald.warhammeronline.com/feedback/index.php
    Re: Keep Defense incentives
    See: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=71355&page=100

    Summary: Turn the Keep Lord into a Kill Collector for various types of targets (guild leaders, siege weapons, regular players, etc) during an attack. Turn the assaulted Keep into a PQ for the defenders that succeeds after X minutes of no further assault.

    Details
    There's a thread on the Penny Arcade forums (forums.penny-arcade.com) where some of us were discussing the lack of incentive to actively defend keeps in tier 2, 3, and (to a much lessened degree due to The Campaign) 4. It was suggested "why not just let them take it, then take it back and get renown, XP and loot?"

    Obviously the simple pride of throwing out your enemy isn't enough here, for whatever reason. Here's a solution we collectively brainstormed that would encourage more skirmish RvR and active keep assaults/defense:

    Upon either a keep door or the Keep Lord being attacked, activate several Kill Collector-style quests turned in at the Keep Lord. Make sure they are reactive, in the way normal Kill Collectors are, so quests don't have to be collected beforehand. He could serve multiple Kill Collector quests for various types of targets in the area around the besieged keep: regular attackers, guild leaders, siege weaponry, etc. These Kill Collections can be turned in as long as the Keep Lord is not actively attacking an aggressor, but credit is only granted during an active attack (so no farming!).

    At the same time as the Kill Collector cum Keep Lord is activated, a pseudo-PQ starts in the area around the Keep for the defending realm, with one objective: "Repel the invaders!" or somesuch, with a timer of X minutes attached. Whenever the door or Lord is directly attacked, reset this timer. If the Keep is taken, the PQ fails. If the timer expires (i.e. the attack was successfully repulsed), end the PQ and distribute bonus loot, XP and Renown to defenders in the area according to normal PQ rules of contribution (including persistence, contribution, and random roll).

    Hope you'll take this feedback to heart. Love your game!

    (PS. Keep attack warnings are too easy to trigger ATM and lead to many false positives. Perhaps making the attack warning only emit when a door or Lord is damaged would ease this some?)

    seriously do it make them implement this!!!

    Kadith wrote: »
    how do i get off [the bus], do i just start screaming
    well that'll get me off at least.
  • CryogenCryogen Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Morkath wrote: »
    Cryogen wrote: »
    tyrannus wrote: »
    what order class has a healing debuff in t2?

    Shadow Warrior could spec for it, but only at level 21.

    ed - wow, beaten. Why are so many people posting at this time of the day??? Whats wrong with you people!!!

    It's only 9:45pm :P

    Pfft! 3:45pm!

    Heh normally the thread dies around this time each day

  • LednehLedneh shinesquawk Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    actually hmm I seem to be unable to send feedback, it keeps telling me I put in the wrong security code :(

    Kadith wrote: »
    how do i get off [the bus], do i just start screaming
    well that'll get me off at least.
  • GalagaGalaxianGalagaGalaxian Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Page 101, one of you lousy gits needs to make a new thread!

    Remember the compliments you receive, forget the insults; if you succeed in doing this, tell me how.
  • EndomaticEndomatic Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Ledneh wrote: »
    OK so here's what I'm sending by the Feedback form on their website you all should do the same by going to http://herald.warhammeronline.com/feedback/index.php
    Defense initiatives

    seriously do it make them implement this!!!

    This is a great step in the right direction, however it could still be possible for 2 guilds to come together and "farm" this.

    One side could initiate an attack, back off, allow the timer to end and the defender collects. Rinse and repeat. If they could stop this from happening some way, perhaps institute a fairly lengthy reset time or something, it would work well.

  • KajustaKajusta Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Same for me, can't send the feedback.

    Someone should post this on both VN Boards and WHA

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    XBL
  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Endomatic wrote: »
    Ledneh wrote: »
    OK so here's what I'm sending by the Feedback form on their website you all should do the same by going to http://herald.warhammeronline.com/feedback/index.php
    Defense initiatives

    seriously do it make them implement this!!!

    This is a great step in the right direction, however it could still be possible for 2 guilds to come together and "farm" this.

    One side could initiate an attack, back off, allow the timer to end and the defender collects. Rinse and repeat. If they could stop this from happening some way, perhaps institute a fairly lengthy reset time or something, it would work well.


    It's not as if they couldn't collude already.

    sig.gifSteam | D3: captaink#1674 | 3DS: 2466-1914-7679
  • RifterRifter Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    Scenarios account for a large portion of victory points. Those are even and you get in practically instantly. In about 3-4 hours my Ironbreaker got to 8 purely off scenarios and we win a ton.

    The game is not just RvR lakes.

    The RvR lakes is what they game is about though, not RvR... and lets face it, t1 scenerios are NOT a great way to call how it is. Sorry, it isn't. I played about 5 rounds of T3 RvR tonight, and got ROLLED in every one of them. :-( For some reason, destro, on average is higher level. *sigh* That makes it more difficult.

    Ultimately, Open RvR is the end-game content of this game... not scenerios. That means, Open RvR needs to be balanced, else 1/2 the population will bail... which will make the other half bored, and quit playing too. WAR is brilliant, but it DESPERATELY needs to get more alliance players to get parity. If it doesn't, the game will crash and burn.

  • EndomaticEndomatic Registered User
    edited October 2008
    captaink wrote: »
    Endomatic wrote: »
    Ledneh wrote: »
    OK so here's what I'm sending by the Feedback form on their website you all should do the same by going to http://herald.warhammeronline.com/feedback/index.php
    Defense initiatives

    seriously do it make them implement this!!!

    This is a great step in the right direction, however it could still be possible for 2 guilds to come together and "farm" this.

    One side could initiate an attack, back off, allow the timer to end and the defender collects. Rinse and repeat. If they could stop this from happening some way, perhaps institute a fairly lengthy reset time or something, it would work well.


    It's not as if they couldn't collude already.

    I know, they'd just have to take that into account as well.

  • jkylefultonjkylefulton Cap's Kooky Quartet Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Folks,

    Well, I guess we should have expected this sort of response from some people. I've said again and again that we are going to take steps to provide even more incentive to do open RvR and when we take some initial steps and say that they are initial steps, up come the "I'm going to quit posts if..."

    I've always said that people should do what they think best. If we are not moving fast enough at making the changes you want, then you have every right as a consumer to let us know by canceling. We also have every right as the developer to do what we think is best for everyone and to make these changes at an appropriate pace. We learned a long time ago that it is better to be cautious on the first pass and then add more if we are wrong. That's 100x better than adding more in the beginning because of cancellation threats and complaints and then having to reduce them because our initial analysis was correct. So, if after seeing everything that we plan on doing you don't think it's enough, let us know however you deem appropriate whether it is through cancellation or simply through feedback. After all, it's not like even this week's patch had anything that was asked for here on the Vault as well as other places right? And some of the things I am going to talk about later this week, well, you'll just have to wait and see on that.

    Look, it's really very simple and I've said this more than once. This is not 2001 and we are not going to blithely make changes to our game just because some people think that we are wrong before they even get a chance to see the changes in action or worse, just because we are getting yelled at by a very vocal minority. We'll gather the data, look at all the feedback and then make a decision. If we're wrong, we'll correct the decision but at least this time we have all the data we need to make the right call and we are not getting swayed either by just the loud voices or a few wrong-headed individuals. So, if you feel the need to talk about canceling in these threads, of course you have that right. Just don't think that we are going to react to it the same way we might have at times back in 2001, we need to be smarter and react more carefully than that. Unlike then, we know we are in this for the long-haul and if we actually do lose some people now because we are moving cautiously, that is a price we are willing to pay to be sure we make the right choices for the long-term success of this game. Launching WAR was only the first step, we still have a long way to go.

    Mark

    2qt8f2t.jpg
  • jkylefultonjkylefulton Cap's Kooky Quartet Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Folks,

    This was a small patch (1.0.3) and I'll be talking about a much bigger patch (1.1) within the next 2 days as part of my State of the Game. As I've said before, these weekly patches are not intended to be major overhauls but rather bug fixes and some small additions. We couldn't do them on a weekly basis otherwise especially given the necessary testing time for a LIVE game versus a Beta game. I think that if you take all the weekly patches and hot fixes and added them up, the amount of things we are doing would be a little more apparent and impressive.

    As I've also said before, we had a choice, go with monthly updates which would seem much bigger and more impressive but I'd have to endure a month of "When is Mythic going to fix ANYTHING!!!" here or weekly patches where I'd have to endure "Is this all you are doing? What about MY ISSUE!?!?!"

    Considering this patch does indeed have some highly requested and necessary fixes/improvements, I'm really happy with it especially the additional of region chat and the one button spammer report since we are putting those in now precisely *because* of the feedback we got here.

    Mark

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  • zilozilo Registered User
    edited October 2008
    If anyone from Mythic is reading this, could you give Mark Jacobs a hug for me? Seriously.

  • Foolish ChaosFoolish Chaos Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Yeah Mark is great. Also a thanks to jkylefulton for posting this stuff for our lazy asses.

    *Sniff sniff*
    Is that new thread I smell?

  • BlueDestinyBlueDestiny Registered User
    edited October 2008
    zilo wrote: »
    If anyone from Mythic is reading this, could you give Mark Jacobs a hug for me? Seriously.

    We should mail him some brownies. Marbled brownies.

    Any sufficiently advanced friendship is indistinguishable from magic.
  • zilozilo Registered User
    edited October 2008
    zilo wrote: »
    If anyone from Mythic is reading this, could you give Mark Jacobs a hug for me? Seriously.

    We should mail him some brownies. Marbled brownies.

    Mostly because he's awesome, but also because it seems like he could kind of use a hug.

  • EndomaticEndomatic Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Good of him to say that.

    It's a frustrating time for everyone. They have put their 60 dollars down and expressed their interest to play Mythics game. There are A LOT of bugs and quite a number of imbalances and people are frustrated. I know I am.

    My subscription is currently set to not renew.
    None of the classes seem interesting to me and that's because a lot of them aren't FINISHED (perhaps except the IB and BW if anything). So many abilities simply do not work properly or are fucking horrible. Then again, some are simply TOO fucking good (Withering Heat, Rune etched Axe w/ Mastery and a lot of the other IB abilities).

    If I could handle looking like a piece of shit, I'd play an IB and be happy, but that's not the case.

    There's just SO many changes that need to be made and people realize that it's going to take a long time to get even a small majority of them fixed.

    People are coming from WoW a game with a great deal of dev and operation time to a game that is a lot like WoW was when it was released.

    It's very fucking annoying to encounter bugs that WoW had and fixed 4 years ago.

  • BlueDestinyBlueDestiny Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Endomatic wrote: »
    Good of him to say that.

    It's a frustrating time for everyone. They have put their 60 dollars down and expressed their interest to play Mythics game. There are A LOT of bugs and quite a number of imbalances and people are frustrated. I know I am.

    My subscription is currently set to not renew.
    None of the classes seem interesting to me and that's because a lot of them aren't FINISHED (perhaps except the IB and BW if anything). So many abilities simply do not work properly or are fucking horrible. Then again, some are simply TOO fucking good (Withering Heat, Rune etched Axe w/ Mastery and a lot of the other IB abilities).

    If I could handle looking like a piece of shit, I'd play an IB and be happy, but that's not the case.

    There's just SO many changes that need to be made and people realize that it's going to take a long time to get even a small majority of them fixed.

    People are coming from WoW a game with a great deal of dev and operation time to a game that is a lot like WoW was when it was released.

    It's very fucking annoying to encounter bugs that WoW had and fixed 4 years ago.

    It's been out for less than a fucking month man. Even WoW was much worse than this a month after release.

    Any sufficiently advanced friendship is indistinguishable from magic.
  • KagnarosKagnaros Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Endomatic wrote: »
    Good of him to say that.

    It's a frustrating time for everyone. They have put their 60 dollars down and expressed their interest to play Mythics game. There are A LOT of bugs and quite a number of imbalances and people are frustrated. I know I am.

    My subscription is currently set to not renew.
    None of the classes seem interesting to me and that's because a lot of them aren't FINISHED (perhaps except the IB and BW if anything). So many abilities simply do not work properly or are fucking horrible. Then again, some are simply TOO fucking good (Withering Heat, Rune etched Axe w/ Mastery and a lot of the other IB abilities).

    If I could handle looking like a piece of shit, I'd play an IB and be happy, but that's not the case.

    There's just SO many changes that need to be made and people realize that it's going to take a long time to get even a small majority of them fixed.

    People are coming from WoW a game with a great deal of dev and operation time to a game that is a lot like WoW was when it was released.

    It's very fucking annoying to encounter bugs that WoW had and fixed 4 years ago.

    It's been out for less than a fucking month man. Even WoW was much worse than this a month after release.

    Also even if WoW had the same bugs that WAR has, that doesn't mean a thing. It's not like Blizzard is giving out their game code to all developers saying "Here! Here's how it's done." They might have to learn a couple things on their own, like I'm sure Blizzard did when WoW first released.

    Anyway, can't wait to hear about 1.1. I'm sure it's going to bring some good changes.

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This discussion has been closed.