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[OOC - 4E DnD] Sorrow of the Heavens

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Posts

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    That would be more than appropriate actually and give PCs of a future campaign a good "epic" level patron that can help them in their war against Orcus, which would be a pretty bleak/different feeling 4E campaign - you die it's for good!

    Plus it would make sense that Saphelon might want that weapon back out of everyone in the group.

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Well, if Saphelon didn't want it, Verax would take it out of a sense of duty and sacrifice. He'd be all sad and somber when anyone met him, just sort of resigned to his Fate like he always has been, except with more depression. Even if Saphelon does take the sword, if Verax is still alive he'll be all about setting everything right once more.

    Man, this sucks. If anyone's going to die it'll be Verax (assuming the final boss is as smart as that dragon we fought earlier and realizes he needs to kill me first), and Verax would want it to be him rather than anyone else, but I don't want Verax to die. Being self-sacrificing sucks. Well, if he has to die, I want it to be something like "only by detonating a divine spark can one seal the rift and save the world. Unfortunately, detonating one's divine spark means dying" and Verax will be all "remember that a hero is only a man who knows he is free" and steps into the void or whatever. But of course it won't be that. It'll be something lame like "Hephaestus sat on him and his soul broke THE END."

    On the off chance that Verax survives, what portfolios are available? What with Verax being a Demigod, it stands to reason that he'd rise to full god status in his epilogue.

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Available portfolios will depend on you actually to an extent (dun dun dun ominous music etc).

    Also it makes sense for Saphelon to be going for the god of death, due to that being in command of Szass Tam and the other abominations in Thay (his original enemy).

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Also as a very important note: Nothing further will be changed in this game with the July 6th errata. Just ignore it and everything will work as it does now. There is literally no point with a whopping 2 levels (1 by the time it is released) to play. All errata will be adopted in Mark of War though (depending on what they change).

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Hey guys, I am going to be writing up what happens in tomorrows session for my friend after the game and probably the forum. I'd love to see if I can get through 4 encounters in 4 hours tomorrow and just see how it goes. So if we can get started on time I would really appreciate that :D

    You will be level 29 after the first or second encounter (I won't tell you precisely which one), so make sure you have your level 29 d00d awaiting!

    Remember that your ultimate goal is to stop Eve at any cost - she's in the middle of the daemonic and githyanki fleet on or possibly inside Hephaestus. You have a really really big ship though and the reason you're doing this is because it's the most likely to be able to plow through any opposition foolish enough to get in your way there. You can probably expect more assaults from archons and daemons though as you fly towards it.

    This deserves explanation though:

    The four circles on the map are the navigational circles of the Sacrifice. These let you "drive" different cores of the ship and fill them with power. Normally you'd have 4 mages for this purpose (as well as defense), but given they have been beheaded for the most part that will fall to you. You'll need a good arcana check to power the different engines on the ship and get the ship moving in that direction. The frontal circle controls the underside node, while the others all correspond to the nodes on upper part of the ship (eg, left, right and back).

    You get a distinct impression the Balor will be immensely destructive upon death - having fought a Balor in the past and remembering its immensely violent death throes. Ter-Soth seems extremely powerful and so you get a real impression that if he explodes on anything important you might permanently lose it.

    The helm is equally as important because you need to be able to steer the ship. This will take someone who is pretty strong and really knows their way around navigating the plane (perception, arcana, athletics are all desirable skills here - noting that one individual pilot doesn't have to have all these skills if someone is within ear shot).

    Edit: Destruction of the helm is a really really really really bad thing.

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Just some advance notice here: I'll be there tomorrow, but I won't be able to show up next week and I'll definitely not be coming the week after. My best friend's bachelor party is next weekend and the wedding is the weekend after, so I'll be rather preoccupied.

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Just some advance notice here: I'll be there tomorrow, but I won't be able to show up next week and I'll definitely not be coming the week after. My best friend's bachelor party is next weekend and the wedding is the weekend after, so I'll be rather preoccupied.

    DRAMATIC!

    Edit: We won't be playing next weekend though because I have some other obligations that weekend, but the weekend after we will be. Verax won't be missing any essential fights hopefully because of that.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Just coming here to note that tomorrows game is really poorly timed. Ghana V USA at 2:30 EST. So probably the first 1.5 hours will be smooth

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Poor unlucky archons!

    Either way I am very impressed with the general performance of MM3 creatures as a whole. They definitely seem to fulfill their actual functions in being a noticeable challenge rather efficiently compared to previous creatures. They are pretty noticeably still maintaining a good level of challenge and requiring useage of daily powers to defeat - as opposed to doing nearly nothing. The archons got a bit unlucky though in the end, poor guys.

    Something to note is solos will always be able to save daze, dominate and stun effects at paragon and heroic regardless if they permit a save or not. They will have this in their power though and I will also add this to their save lines as well (for convenience sake). Noting that some solos don't bother doing this because they have another power, EG Elemental Barrage or Many Headed that does effectively the same thing.

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Here are my final collated houserules going forward into Mark of War. If there is something you think I've missed feel free to ask:

    Also, for your convenience here is a list of my current "houserules" for commentary if you desire.
    Free actions (Problematic and subject to change!)
    Spoiler:
    Hindering Terrain, Zones and automatic damage effects and saving throws (Reiterated from above)
    Spoiler:
    Lethal Terrain
    Spoiler:
    Levels and Extended Rests
    Spoiler:
    Solo Resilience (Final wording of the rule for future campaigns)
    Spoiler:
    Swallow (New Condition)
    Spoiler:

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I do find it hilarious they nerfed Legion's Hold. None the less we aren't adding the errata except in one case, I'm adopting the addition of the free action update. I will miss Mariliths multiply hitting PCs every round for every miss, but limiting free action attacks to once per turn has always seemed like something I should have done myself anyway. So that part of the errata will be immediately adopted. Everything else is the same, except for the cleric powers that were dropped from standard actions to minor actions - I've already added that.

    The change to magic missile was fucking hilarious.

  • REG RyskREG Rysk Lord Rageface Rageington Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Really Wizards? REALLY?!

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    REG Rysk wrote: »
    Really Wizards? REALLY?!

    Actually it is really far too good a power for what it does. It doesn't actually bother me that much because my encounters were already taking in large bursts into account anyway (Turn undead in this case), but I can definitely see this being a decent change.

    Remember though that unless I specifically say so, the errata isn't added. I've only added the changes to the cleric powers to make them minor actions and the free action attack interpretation.

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Future houserule time for posterity: Rampage can be taken even if you have taken a free action attack.

    Purpose: Rampage is limited to 1/round, being harshly restricted by the new free action rule doesn't seem particularly reasonable given its already restricted in use. As a result, Rampage is a special exemption to the current free action limit.

    Second houserule:

    Monster and PC bloodied attack powers that are free actions.

    Purpose: Monsters and PCs with bloodied powers can still use these when bloodied, regardless if they have used a free action attack that turn or not.

    Decided to make it apply to bloodied attacks that occur on PCs. Bloodied effects are temperamental enough due to stuns, conditions and other issues. Making them generally useless is not the intention and so they get an exemption. Also, they were never a part of the recursive free action criticals and other issues this was meant to solve.

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    New houserule and clarification list. These updates are more frequent as I'm trying to establish everything clearly before we begin the new campaigns. Elite resilience is a continued update to reduce the effectiveness of until end of next turn effects over save ends. Essentially, I want save ends powers to be superior to until end of next turn effects, as elites and solos will save against these in general anyway. This means if they fail that save, a save ends effect will stick around while a "until end of next turn" effect is cut short. Essentially this means elites treat all stunned conditions as save ends, while solos treat all dazed, dominated, stunned and unconscious conditions as save ends. If a monster has a power that interacts with save ends effects such as an immediate save against a condition imposed on them, then an "until end of next turn daze/dominate/stun/unconscious" is basically affected as if they were save ends effects. The purpose of the rule is to ensure that elites and solos of around the parties level are still challenging, without needing to have bazillion defenses (eg unhittable) to ensure they can take actions.
    Elite Resilience
    Spoiler:
    Free actions: Are they interrupts or reactions?
    Spoiler:
    Free action attacks (Errata clarification).
    Spoiler:
    Hindering Terrain, Zones and automatic damage effects and saving throws (Reiterated from above)
    Spoiler:
    Lethal Terrain
    Spoiler:
    Levels and Extended Rests
    Spoiler:
    Solo Resilience
    Spoiler:
    Swallow (New Condition)
    Spoiler:

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    First, I shouldn't have been capped and losing 40 minutes of the session this morning was really frustrating to me.

    I am incredibly happy with that otherwise though, really very happy. That was a major fight with moments where it was towards the PCs like the two epic crits from Orin at the start of the combat, the massive assault of elemental bursts and blasts that brought many PCs unconscious swinging it back. Then with the major AC penalty on Jerusha, Ter-Soth grabbing Lain at a critical moment and ramming an axe into Verax made things look truly dire. Then the removal of Orin and Verax from play and then the final crit to kill Jerusha. That was a perfect encounter for swinging a battle around one way and another, bloodying PCs and similar. That's exactly how I think an epic encounter with a named antagonist should be.

    I am though very disappointed that Terrendos and Rysk weren't there for it, because it was a really good combat in the end. It also didn't require an EL that I would think is extraneous. To get that sort of fight with the maths and general power philosophy pre-MM3 would require me to jack an EL up to +6 or +8. That was EL + 4 (and Jerusha was a EL + 2 solo, who was the star of the combat - not overshadowed by the cacodemon or the two heralds).

    Man, I'm going to have to make the battle with Abaddon twice as epic to make it up to Terrendos and Rysk for missing that.

    Also, all monsters will have an aura range. I'll try to get this working as well as possible - one of the reasons I've not used auras is because they can be extremely hard to get working on Large, Huge and similar creatures. However, I have heard what you said and I will endeavor to make sure you can see all auras. Auras will have colors depending on their range, with a 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6+ variant (most auras are between 1 and 5, some exceptions though exist). I will need to experiment with this, have you got a good link to making auras somewhere Goumindong?

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    So with Saphelon on the scene to inspect things and ensure everything was in order, I give you: MONSTER AURAS. From medium to huge creatures, with auras from 1-5 in size.

    MediumAura.jpg

    LargeAuraSize.jpg

    HugeAuraSize.jpg

    Aura's greater than 5 become very awkward and probably will make the entire battlefield look like someone just went to a 1970s disco (additionally, 1-5 is the most common type). Gargantuan creatures vary too much in size to make a set standard of auras for them.

    Comments appreciated on the coloration (It's generally easy to distinguish, map color obviously makes a bit of a different but it's usually pretty noticeable).

    Edit: This does of course mean that I am essentially never going to forget auras.

    Edit2: As you will be seeing them in future, the Molydeus Dual Brain now says "saves". As its an epic elite, it treats all stunned conditions as save ends (see above post). It will no longer automatically end the daze condition though. I forgot before the session that the creature didn't need any further "resistance" anymore and being dazed is perfectly fine for an elites action economy.

    Edit3: As an important rules clarification, if a monster DOESN'T have an aura and I click an aura button during its turn, it means it had its aura off and has now turned it on. Some canny creatures will not activate their auras until they can affect as many targets as possible with them. A creature can choose to deactivate and activate its aura as a minor action if it doesn't happen to have it currently active.

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    As of immediately and going forward, Magic Missile is a class feature that ALL wizards have. You always have magic missile in addition to your two (or three if you're human) at-wills.

  • REG RyskREG Rysk Lord Rageface Rageington Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Whazawhat? Anyhow, I am out for HOCKEYSTUFFS today. I play a defender, and my marks are super effective!

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    HOCKEYSTUFFS?!?!?

    Drama.

    Also I am distinctly not ill and in action for DnD. Looking forward to today actually.

    Also the magic missile ruling is just to make the core PhB more consistent with essentials. I think it's a decent "feature" and should be a part of all Wizards.

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Hey guys, my computer is out of action due to a nasty hard drive implosion (or explosion, whichever one it was). I am *not* canceling the game though until the last possible moment this Friday. If I can find any way to play DnD this weekend I will take it - even if I have to remake my campaign file from scratch. I will let you know what is happening though, but I'm pretty determined to try and play this weekend if I can.

  • REG RyskREG Rysk Lord Rageface Rageington Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Which is a good thing, since I will be at a wedding next Saturday and unable to play.

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I don't think we will be able to play, as the laptop doctors are getting in new parts for my computer. It seems that she's really gone down very badly and so it looks very unlikely my computer will be functional this weekend. That's rather gutting. None the less, it gives me lots of time to work on Mark of War now. I am still not 100% giving up yet though!

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Okay so the laptop drama is not over just yet, but hopefully I will have lappy back by the middle of the week. I shall keep you updated on the developing drama and situation as it evolves!

    Otherwise I have modified both of my elite and solo resistance rules. Quite frankly they were too complicated and there is a simple way of expressing both:

    Elite Resistance:

    Elite monsters always treat the stunned condition as save ends.

    Solo resistance:

    Solo monsters always treat the daze, dominate, stunned and unconscious conditions as save ends.

    Basically, regardless of what the original effect says the respective monster treats the condition as save ends and any normal power that the monster has that interacts with save ends effects applies (EG immediate interrupt saving throws when a condition is applied). This now just applies at all tiers - given its working out better than anticipated in my heroic IRL game. Solo monsters or elites that have specific powers that change daze and stun or other conditions to something else, like the Hydra "hydra's fury" ignore this rule in favor of their specific power or ability. This also makes it a consistent rule across all tiers, instead of suddenly applying out of the blue from nowhere.

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Question: what about my power that stuns EONT with an aftereffect to daze EONT? I'm assuming that both become (save ends) on a Solo?

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Yeah, but an immediate action save (for example) would only apply to the first and not to the aftereffect.

    A molydeus (which is an elite) that you've faced has Dual Brain. This means he automatically saves stun effects, so would save the stun part automatically but still be dazed until the end of your next turn (and he can't save that anymore, because I'm keeping the original wording of dual brain). Basically the simplest way to think of it is that if anything is daze, dominate, stun or unconscious a solo simply treats it as save ends. Note that it doesn't change that the power still only works until the end of your next turn (or the creatures turn or whatever else). This is actually an effort to devalue "Until end of next turn" daze and similar effects over save ends.

    After all, if a solo fails a save ends stun he's going to be a lot worse off than an until end of next turn stun - one of these effects keeps going when he fails. The overall effect of this rule has been pleasing, because now I've noticed a general trend in my playtests (And my IRL group optimizers) that "save ends" is regarded as utterly worthless over an until end of next turn effect. One is now definitively worse than the other, which is how it should be because hitting with Destructive Salutation (as the poster child example) should never ever ever be worse than missing with it. As it was before, it was always more worthwhile deliberately missing with it: EG running and going prone as a minor action for a -7 to hit penalty and then attacking.

    Yes. The bloodmage I had seriously did that.

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Okay, so if I inflict a solo with stun EONT, and he doesn't save from it, it still ends at the end of my next turn?

    LAME

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Okay, so if I inflict a solo with stun EONT, and he doesn't save from it, it still ends at the end of my next turn?

    LAME

    Yes, they merely treat them as save ends effects (so they get any relevant saves or similar) - but they end at their normal duration. It makes them a significantly weaker save ends effects than an actual save ends.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I feel really bad for not being around as much as I have lately. I have been really really busy and will likely continue to be until the unforeseeable future (heavy course load in the summer ending soon... to be replaced with an exceptionally heavy course load in the fall... to be replaced with the same in the spring... to be replaced with graduate school).

    So i will finish this game out, but won't be able to play in the next one.

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    That's sorry to hear Goumindong, I've appreciated playing with you and it's been good to have you around. We've only got around ~3 sessions of this game to go, so sticking around just for that would be appreciated. I'll find someone new for Mark of War.

    Good playing with you :D

    As for the game this weekend, it looks like I won't have my laptop back until Friday, which makes playing unlikely :( Sigh.

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Success! We are playing tomorrow! I was able to reconstruct the campaign mostly from memory. So we'll be able to finish this part off and then level 30. Wooo!

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Okay, so I will detail the treasure later but it's likely to be one huge "put everything that I haven't handed out" into one encounter thing. So there won't be any further treasure - except if I find it amusing for whatever reason - for the rest of the game. You'll have more than enough time to enchant whatever you want before marching into Hephaestus to finally confront and hopefully stop Eve forever.

    You're all level 30! Huzzah! I'm not sure just yet what I want to do with level 30 at the moment, but it's likely we've got another 2 or 3 sessions. It's been a long road but I am looking forward to your reaction to the final encounter :D

    Bahamuts Soul Stone: So Bahamut at the moment is firmly dead, but his divine energy is within your grasp and more than willing to aid you. Should it be needed, you can do any of the three following things with this item:

    Reforge Bahamut: This requires the forge on Celestia that you defended from the Archons. This resurrects the Platinum Dragon and he's back to being a God again. Technically speaking though, you could nick off with it and in your characters epilogue, dedicate your life to finding out how to steal his divine essence to become a god. That is actually an option as well - but takes far longer than is practical for the rest of this campaign.

    Destroy the Soul Gem: This is a once only power and it takes a minor action to use (so make sure you're carrying it at the time and can use it if things get desperate). When used it creatures blinding white light within a 10 square area. Any dead ally within it is ressurected, with full HPs, all their powers and they act as if they have spent an extended rest. Anyone else gains an immediate extended rest. All negative conditions upon the characters are negated as well and any enemy within the area is weakened until the end of the users next turn. It also cannot end or negate the effect in any manner. Bahamuts soul is permanently destroyed when you do this and his divine energy is lost.

    The divine resurrection provided by this item can even send your souls back when Orcus takes them. This is the ONLY way to resurrect characters killed when you progress into Hephaestus' forge (this is the moment that Orcus gains supremacy over the Death Portfolio).

    Throw it into the Forge's Heart: At some point you'll be within the forge of Hephaestus, if you throw this into the forge it destroys Bahamut, yourselves and everything else that's even anywhere near Hephaestus. This is the "heroic sacrifice" option - if everything seems pointless and you do not feel you can win - this is your last possible ditch attempt to pull victory from the jaws of defeat. I suggest using this only in the absolute last resort and only if you feel the above won't help.

    This all does depend on how you chat with Belarousse though. He might have a slightly different interpretation of what you should be doing with that divine essence of Bahamuts.

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Just a heads up that Verax should not be allowed to hold onto Bahamut's essence. Because there is zero chance he would let anything but the "reforge Bahamut" outcome happen.

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Just a heads up that Verax should not be allowed to hold onto Bahamut's essence. Because there is zero chance he would let anything but the "reforge Bahamut" outcome happen.

    Well, if you're dead then you may not get a choice because another PC might take it and use it. That's probably one of those "Desperate" situations I mentioned before. In the end though, how you handle it is literally entirely up to you. The final encounter is very difficult, but I'm not inherently designing the end fight to assume you use it.

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    By the way, a couple of things I'd like included in the treasure parcels:

    1. Soulguard ritual, if we don't already have it. It takes an hour to cast, but having another "get out of death free" card can't be a bad thing. It doesn't require a check, so Verax and Saphelon can both use it.

    2. Is there a magic item to increase Verax's number of surges? If so, one of those please. It's getting to the point where I'm afraid to heal myself because I get so low on surges between extended rests.

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I can't think of anything off hand that might increase your surges, because the one I do know I think gives charisma surges and I made one specifically for Saphelon. How many Surges do you have maximum again? You can regain surges and dailies within Hephaestus though. It's designed that you can keep going without an extended rest throughout it - as the pacing towards the conclusion of the campaign should be pretty breakneck to build tension and momentum.

    As to Soulguard, yes you can have that.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    There is the feat that gives +2 to surges. Do you have that yet?

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    No, I don't have that one. I might take the feat that lets my healing words draw surges from anyone though. Shared Healing? Don't have the books with me but I think it lets the party mooch surges off people with way too many.

    I've got 9 surges, plus I get one more from my magic ring.

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    It's shared healing:
    Benefit: When you use a power that allows an ally to spend a healing surge, you can instead have that ally regain hit points as if he or she had spent a healing surge, and you or another willing ally within 5 squares of you spends the healing surge instead.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    That is awesome, considering how quickly I go through 14 healing surges now-a-days

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