Hey Let's Talk About Mormons!

tsmvengy

Let's see if this goes anywhere. We were talking about Mitt Romney in the election thread and it devolved into talking about Mormonism, thus we arrive here.

Wikipedia wrote:

The Latter Day Saint movement is a group of Restorationist religious denominations and adherents who follow at least some of the teachings and revelations of Joseph Smith, Jr., publisher of the Book of Mormon in 1830. The Latter Day Saint movement is one of a number of separate movements, known collectively as Restorationism, intending to transcend Protestant denominationalism, and to restore a form of Christianity thought to be more consistent with the New Testament. The church founded by Joseph Smith, Jr. was first known as the Church of Christ. After Smith's death in 1844, the movement divided into several groups, the largest of which, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) migrated to Utah Territory and became known in the 19th century for its practice of plural marriage. The LDS Church discontinued this practice in 1890. Other denominations, who refer to themselves as Mormon fundamentalists, continued the practice.
Other groups originating within the Latter Day Saint movement followed different paths in Missouri, Illinois, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. For the most part these groups rejected plural marriage and some of Smith's latest and most controversial or disputed teachings. The largest of these, the Community of Christ (originally known as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints), was formed in Missouri in 1860 by several groups uniting around Smith's son, Joseph Smith III. Most denominations existing today who follow the teachings of Joseph Smith, Jr. have some historical relationship with the movement.

Some stuff Mormons believe in (incomplete):

• After Jesus' resurrection he travelled to the Americas
• Everyone can receive messages from God (or be a prophet)
• [strike]Plural Marriage[/strike] Not any more!
• People should baptize their dead ancestors so they can join everyone in heaven
• Black people were not allowed to be ordained or participate in temple ordinances (highest rituals) in the Mormon church until the 1970s

Some famous people are Mormons!

• Mitt Romney!
• Steve Young!
• Orson Scott Card!
• Glenn Beck!
• The Osmonds!

So do what you will. I know Mormonism is scary and weird because it's new. Don't crap this up with "LOL MAGIC UNDERWEAR" or we're screwed.

DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT A MORMON SO DON'T SHOOT ME IF I GOT THINGS WRONG

Clint Eastwood

Glenn Beck is a tremendous douche on the level of Tucker Carlson and as such I judge all Mormons poorly.

Monolithic_Dome

I used to be a Mormon. Lived in Utah and everything. Lots of things eventually made the church somewhat troublesome to me, but my "aha" moment came when I realized that, according to Mormons:

God used to hate black people, but changed his mind in 1978

Also, I love to hear the arguments from Christians about how mormons aren't christians. It's like watching republicans try to disown Ron Paul.

Speaker

I've met four or five mormons and every one of them has been an awesome person.

Also, I think very highly of the practice of sending their young people abroad for a year to do mission work. More for the going abroad than for the mission work.

Qingu

I used to have this awesome flowchart of Mormon cosmology and afterlife theology. I copied it down from someone who worked at a Mormon daycare center.

Let's see if I remember.

•*When your soul starts out, there's a 33% chance that it gets thrown into "outer darkness," with Satan. The rest of the souls are born onto earth.

• On earth, you can get saved by Jesus, so when you die, you go to one of three levels of heaven.

• The first level is called the terrestial sphere. It's kind of normal.

• The second level is called the telestial sphere. I think it's a little better than earth.

• The third, top, level is called the celestial sphere. This is the place to be. In fact, a small number of people in the celestial sphere get to go off to other planets, where they become Gods of their own world. Our God is actually one such example of this.

•*Some people die without being saved, but they aren't immediately thrown into outer darkness. The people from the three spheres have a chance to a purgatory-like place and save them.

(I'm probably remembering a lot of the details wrong. Mormons—please verify!)

Monolithic_Dome

Speaker wrote: »

I've met four or five mormons and every one of them has been an awesome person.

Also, I think very highly of the practice of sending their young people abroad for a year to do mission work. More for the going abroad than for the mission work.

It's worth noting that in most denominations "mission work" is primarily charity-type stuff, while in mormonism it is rather exclusively converting people to mormonism.

Mithrandir86

My girlfriend is a former Mormon.

When I met her parents I told them that my only knowledge of Mormonism was from Wikipedia and South Park. They were not familiar with Wikipedia, but they loved the South Park Mormon episode. Apparently they have it on DVD.

Speaker

Qingu wrote: »

I used to have this awesome flowchart of Mormon cosmology and afterlife theology. I copied it down from someone who worked at a Mormon daycare center.

Let's see if I remember.

•*When your soul starts out, there's a 33% chance that it gets thrown into "outer darkness," with Satan. The rest of the souls are born onto earth.

• On earth, you can get saved by Jesus, so when you die, you go to one of three levels of heaven.

• The first level is called the terrestial sphere. It's kind of normal.

• The second level is called the telestial sphere. I think it's a little better than earth.

• The third, top, level is called the celestial sphere. This is the place to be. In fact, a small number of people in the celestial sphere get to go off to other planets, where they become Gods of their own world. Our God is actually one such example of this.

•*Some people die without being saved, but they aren't immediately thrown into outer darkness. The people from the three spheres have a chance to a purgatory-like place and save them.

(I'm probably remembering a lot of the details wrong. Mormons—please verify!)

Sounds like par for the course as far as religious cosmology.

Zenitram

Mormon may be a strange religion, but I'm the kind of guy that finds religion strange in general.

Having said that, I am friends with a lot of Mormons and, as a whole, they are the nicest people I know.

Their one flaw is that although they try to familiarize themselves with other cultures both inside and outside the US (through their missions), they are ultimately encouraged to spend 99% of their time with fellow Mormons. They go to church growing up, go on a mission some time after high school (and hang out with Mormons and Mormon converts), then they are encouraged to go to BYU. It basically makes them completely sheltered as to how the real world operates.

Casual Eddy

To be fair, polygamy was never widespread through Mormons even when it was at it's height. When polygamy was the most widespread, it was only practiced by about 10% of them. It was a radical and controversial issue among them even then. It's extremely misleading to say that mormons simply believed in polygamy.

EmperorSeth

I have an odd question regarding Biblical literalism and that whole "Mark of Cain" thing: if we do assume the Bible is literal, wouldn't they all, you know, be drowned in the Flood? I mean, the gimmick works if we pretend they're all vampires for the convenience of RPGs and such, but not so much with just an ethnicity.

Also, what happens to multi-racial people, like Obama himself? Do they get half-souls?

Sakebomb

Qingu wrote: »

I used to have this awesome flowchart of Mormon cosmology and afterlife theology. I copied it down from someone who worked at a Mormon daycare center.

Let's see if I remember.

•*When your soul starts out, there's a 33% chance that it gets thrown into "outer darkness," with Satan. The rest of the souls are born onto earth.

• On earth, you can get saved by Jesus, so when you die, you go to one of three levels of heaven.

• The first level is called the terrestial sphere. It's kind of normal.

• The second level is called the telestial sphere. I think it's a little better than earth.

• The third, top, level is called the celestial sphere. This is the place to be. In fact, a small number of people in the celestial sphere get to go off to other planets, where they become Gods of their own world. Our God is actually one such example of this.

•*Some people die without being saved, but they aren't immediately thrown into outer darkness. The people from the three spheres have a chance to a purgatory-like place and save them.

(I'm probably remembering a lot of the details wrong. Mormons—please verify!)

I was raised in a Mormon church til I was about 14 yrs old.
I don’t remember anything about a 33% chance of failure for new souls
But one thing that was very prominent was the belief in baptism for the dead. Meaning people on earth can be baptized on behalf of those who died without being baptized themselves. Doing so saves them from the "Outer Darkness"
That’s why Mormons are so big on genealogy
We used to make long roadtrips to the nearest Temple and have weekend long baptism sessions in these crazy big baptismal fountains sitting on top of 12 golden bull statues which represented the twelve tribes of Israel

I also remember an elder telling me that I was not to discuss what goes on in the temple with people outside the church.

meh.

Sentry

lmao...

your list of famous mormons makes me furious.

Qingu

Sakebomb wrote: »

Qingu wrote: »

I used to have this awesome flowchart of Mormon cosmology and afterlife theology. I copied it down from someone who worked at a Mormon daycare center.

Let's see if I remember.

•*When your soul starts out, there's a 33% chance that it gets thrown into "outer darkness," with Satan. The rest of the souls are born onto earth.

• On earth, you can get saved by Jesus, so when you die, you go to one of three levels of heaven.

• The first level is called the terrestial sphere. It's kind of normal.

• The second level is called the telestial sphere. I think it's a little better than earth.

• The third, top, level is called the celestial sphere. This is the place to be. In fact, a small number of people in the celestial sphere get to go off to other planets, where they become Gods of their own world. Our God is actually one such example of this.

•*Some people die without being saved, but they aren't immediately thrown into outer darkness. The people from the three spheres have a chance to a purgatory-like place and save them.

(I'm probably remembering a lot of the details wrong. Mormons—please verify!)

I was raised in a Mormon church til I was about 14 yrs old.
I don’t remember anything about a 33% chance of failure for new souls
But one thing that was very prominent was the belief in baptism for the dead. Meaning people on earth can be baptized on behalf of those who died without being baptized themselves. Doing so saves them from the "Outer Darkness"
That’s why Mormons are so big on genealogy
We used to make long roadtrips to the nearest Temple and have weekend long baptism sessions in these crazy big baptismal fountains sitting on top of golden bull statues which represented the original tribes in the americas.

I also remember an elder telling me that I was not to discuss what goes on in the temple with people outside the church.

meh.

Give us the goods!

Eh, I could probably just look it up on Wikipedia. I should really get around to reading the Book of Mormon one of these days. My mom gave me a copy—she stole it from a hotel room in Utah.

Shogun

I never knew Glenn Beck was a mormon, but that just solidifies his stance as an uninformed crisis monger.

Zenitram

Sakebomb wrote: »

I was raised in a Mormon church til I was about 14 yrs old.
I don’t remember anything about a 33% chance of failure for new souls
But one thing that was very prominent was the belief in baptism for the dead. Meaning people on earth can be baptized on behalf of those who died without being baptized themselves. Doing so saves them from the "Outer Darkness"
That’s why Mormons are so big on genealogy
We used to make long roadtrips to the nearest Temple and have weekend long baptism sessions in these crazy big baptismal fountains sitting on top of golden bull statues which represented the original tribes in the americas.

I also remember an elder telling me that I was not to discuss what goes on in the temple with people outside the church.

meh.

Well since you are already a blasphemer, perhaps you could answer a question I've had for a while:

Is it true there is a certain room in a Mormon temple where newlywed couples consummate the marriage?

Couscous

I find Mormon apologetics hilarious. It is like Christian apologetics except funnier as you can see more of the bullshit.

Sakebomb

Qingu wrote: »

Sakebomb wrote: »

Qingu wrote: »

I used to have this awesome flowchart of Mormon cosmology and afterlife theology. I copied it down from someone who worked at a Mormon daycare center.

Let's see if I remember.

•*When your soul starts out, there's a 33% chance that it gets thrown into "outer darkness," with Satan. The rest of the souls are born onto earth.

• On earth, you can get saved by Jesus, so when you die, you go to one of three levels of heaven.

• The first level is called the terrestial sphere. It's kind of normal.

• The second level is called the telestial sphere. I think it's a little better than earth.

• The third, top, level is called the celestial sphere. This is the place to be. In fact, a small number of people in the celestial sphere get to go off to other planets, where they become Gods of their own world. Our God is actually one such example of this.

•*Some people die without being saved, but they aren't immediately thrown into outer darkness. The people from the three spheres have a chance to a purgatory-like place and save them.

(I'm probably remembering a lot of the details wrong. Mormons—please verify!)

I was raised in a Mormon church til I was about 14 yrs old.
I don’t remember anything about a 33% chance of failure for new souls
But one thing that was very prominent was the belief in baptism for the dead. Meaning people on earth can be baptized on behalf of those who died without being baptized themselves. Doing so saves them from the "Outer Darkness"
That’s why Mormons are so big on genealogy
We used to make long roadtrips to the nearest Temple and have weekend long baptism sessions in these crazy big baptismal fountains sitting on top of golden bull statues which represented the original tribes in the americas.

I also remember an elder telling me that I was not to discuss what goes on in the temple with people outside the church.

meh.

Give us the goods!

Eh, I could probably just look it up on Wikipedia. I should really get around to reading the Book of Mormon one of these days. My mom gave me a copy—she stole it from a hotel room in Utah.

They also have books called the Pearl of Great Price, The 13 Articles of Faith, and the Doctrine of Covenants
as the basis of thier religon.
Being just a kid, all this shit seemed normal to me. Looking back now, it seems pretty damn far out there

DanHibiki

Ok, maybe some of you can fill me in on this:

We got a Mormon guy at work here who will simply not have anything to do with Birthdays or holidays like Christmas. What's up with this? Is he just being a douche or is there something religious to this?

Sentry

DanHibiki wrote: »

Ok, maybe some of you can fill me in on this:

We got a Mormon guy at work here who will simply not have anything to do with Birthdays or holidays like Christmas. What's up with this? Is he just being a douche or is there something religious to this?

You sure he's not Jehovah's Witness?

Sakebomb

Zenitram wrote: »

Sakebomb wrote: »

I was raised in a Mormon church til I was about 14 yrs old.
I don’t remember anything about a 33% chance of failure for new souls
But one thing that was very prominent was the belief in baptism for the dead. Meaning people on earth can be baptized on behalf of those who died without being baptized themselves. Doing so saves them from the "Outer Darkness"
That’s why Mormons are so big on genealogy
We used to make long roadtrips to the nearest Temple and have weekend long baptism sessions in these crazy big baptismal fountains sitting on top of golden bull statues which represented the original tribes in the americas.

I also remember an elder telling me that I was not to discuss what goes on in the temple with people outside the church.

meh.

Well since you are already a blasphemer, perhaps you could answer a question I've had for a while:

Is it true there is a certain room in a Mormon temple where newlywed couples consummate the marriage?

Only thing I remember about couples who got married in the temple was that their vows are different in the aspect that they are sealed for all of eternity, as opposed to the traditional "Til death do us part"

Families can also request to visit the temple to be "sealed"
My father tried to pressure my mother and I to do it even though they were divorced and I had abandoned my faith

Sakebomb

Sentry wrote: »

DanHibiki wrote: »

Ok, maybe some of you can fill me in on this:

We got a Mormon guy at work here who will simply not have anything to do with Birthdays or holidays like Christmas. What's up with this? Is he just being a douche or is there something religious to this?

You sure he's not Jehovah's Witness?

Yeah, I distinctly remember celebrating xmas as a kid. Tree and all.

Qingu

Sakebomb wrote: »

They also have books called the Pearl of Great Price, The 13 Articles of Faith, and the Doctrine of Covenants
as the basis of thier religon.
Being just a kid, all this shit seemed normal to me. Looking back now, it seems pretty damn far out there

As Speaker said, I think it's par for the course for religious doctrine. I mean, look at mainstream Christianity—Jesus is wholly human and wholly God at the same time? He died to save humanity from being tortured for sinning against himself, God? It is literally nonsense, and I can see why Muslim apologists constantly make fun of Christians for believing in the Trinity.

And the Old Testament ... the Genesis creation and flood stories are straight-up Babylonian mythology. If you replaced the name "Yahweh" with "Marduk" and personified the chaotic waters a little more you would have the Enuma Elish. The flood story is almost identical with flood stories in two Babylonian myths that predate the Bible by hundreds of years. And don't get me started on the Leviticus sacrifice system, with its instructions to adequately salt and season the sacrifices because "Yahweh loves salt" (and don't forget to give the corrupt priesthood a cut of the sacrifice, of course.)

/rant. Mormonism is just a newer cult; it seems stupider because people are more used to the older, stupid cults.

DanHibiki

Sentry wrote: »

DanHibiki wrote: »

Ok, maybe some of you can fill me in on this:

We got a Mormon guy at work here who will simply not have anything to do with Birthdays or holidays like Christmas. What's up with this? Is he just being a douche or is there something religious to this?

You sure he's not Jehovah's Witness?

Would there be a religious reason if he is?

Sentry

DanHibiki wrote: »

Sentry wrote: »

DanHibiki wrote: »

Ok, maybe some of you can fill me in on this:

We got a Mormon guy at work here who will simply not have anything to do with Birthdays or holidays like Christmas. What's up with this? Is he just being a douche or is there something religious to this?

You sure he's not Jehovah's Witness?

Would there be a religious reason if he is?

Yes. They don't celebrate any holidays or birthdays.

I imagine it's kind of like the religious equivalent to being really depressed.

EmperorSeth

Sentry wrote: »

DanHibiki wrote: »

Sentry wrote: »

DanHibiki wrote: »

Ok, maybe some of you can fill me in on this:

We got a Mormon guy at work here who will simply not have anything to do with Birthdays or holidays like Christmas. What's up with this? Is he just being a douche or is there something religious to this?

You sure he's not Jehovah's Witness?

Would there be a religious reason if he is?

Yes. They don't celebrate any holidays or birthdays.

I imagine it's kind of like the religious equivalent to being really depressed.

On the plus side, aren't they the ones initially responsible for removing the obligatory Pledge of Allegiance?

templewulf

I don't think Mormon doctrines are significantly crazier than mainstream Christian beliefs. Are divine underpants really farther out there than a cosmic Jewish zombie who is his own father that sacrifices himself to save humanity from his own judgment?

Mostly I judge Mormons as individual "asshole / not asshole", much the same way I judge other Christians. In general, "not asshole" wins out, but there's a Glenn Beck in every sect.

That cosmology Qingu posted earlier sounds like a D&D supplement, though. :lol:

Monolithic_Dome

I love how people mix up Mormonism with some of the other "fringier" sects of christianity?

No birthday parties? Nope that's the Jehovah's Witnesses
Can't take medication? Try again! Christian Scientists
Church is on Saturday? Nope! Seventh Day Adventist
Speaking in Tongues? You were looking for Pentecostals
Coffee and Tea are evil? Bingo! we have a winner!

templewulf

Monolithic_Dome wrote: »

I love how people mix up Mormonism with some of the other "fringier" sects of christianity?

No birthday parties? Nope that's the Jehovah's Witnesses
Can't take medication? Try again! Christian Scientists
Church is on Saturday? Nope! Seventh Day Adventist
Speaking in Tongues? You were looking for Pentecostals

I knew all of those.

Coffee and Tea are evil? Bingo! we have a winner!

I've never even heard of this. What do Mormons have against tea?

BubbaT

Mormons as a group are probably the second best religion at football, trailing only Catholics. Pretty sharp at baseball too.

I was far more annoyed at Scientologist Katie Holmes showing up in Batman movies than I was Mormon Aaron Eckhart, though that has more to do with, you know, actual acting talent.

Mormons will tell you to vote for Orrin Hatch, Harry Reid, and Pedro.

TheSuperWoot

templewulf wrote: »

Monolithic_Dome wrote: »

I love how people mix up Mormonism with some of the other "fringier" sects of christianity?

No birthday parties? Nope that's the Jehovah's Witnesses
Can't take medication? Try again! Christian Scientists
Church is on Saturday? Nope! Seventh Day Adventist
Speaking in Tongues? You were looking for Pentecostals

I've knew all of those.

Coffee and Tea are evil? Bingo! we have a winner!

I've never even heard of this. What do Mormons have against tea?

I'm not a Mormon myself but I've lived in SLC all my life and as I understand it they're not supposed to drink caffeine.

Probably a quarter of the people I know are Mormon and I've never seen anyone practice this though.

Drakeon

templewulf wrote: »

Monolithic_Dome wrote: »

I love how people mix up Mormonism with some of the other "fringier" sects of christianity?

No birthday parties? Nope that's the Jehovah's Witnesses
Can't take medication? Try again! Christian Scientists
Church is on Saturday? Nope! Seventh Day Adventist
Speaking in Tongues? You were looking for Pentecostals

I've knew all of those.

Coffee and Tea are evil? Bingo! we have a winner!

I've never even heard of this. What do Mormons have against tea?

They don't drink caffeine, although the inclusion of Tea kind of leads me to believe that it may be something more? Tea doesn't have caffeine does it?

Edit: Apparently its not the caffeine that prohibits coffee drinking >_>

Monolithic_Dome

templewulf wrote: »

Monolithic_Dome wrote: »

Coffee and Tea are evil? Bingo! we have a winner!

I've never even heard of this. What do Mormons have against tea?

There's a whole section of Mormon doctrine that lays out a bunch of lifestyle prohibitions, referred to as the word of wisdom. It's kinda like the mormon version of eating Kosher. One of the things it prohibits is "hot drinks," which is generally thought to include Coffee and (black) Tea. Intrepretations of the various prohibitions in this document vary widely, even geographically.

Casual Eddy

Hot drinks?

No hot cocoa? No spiced, hot cider?

Element Brian

How did I miss this thread, there is somuch debunking to be doing. also im giving plasma so i have to type with one hand. to start off, the front page says that blacks were not allowed into the church untill the 70's. this is a complete lie, they were prohibited from recieving the priesthood, such a reason which is too depth to talk about right now. there is a book called "the truth about mormons and blacks" written by the first black person to recieve the priesthood, you could check that out for starters.

oh this is going to be fun...

Daemonion

I dated a mormon girl in high school for a little over two years.

Yea, she had a baby at 17, like one year after we broke up.


Technically, she wasn't even supposed to date me. Oh well.

Burtletoy

Drakeon wrote: »

templewulf wrote: »

Monolithic_Dome wrote: »

I love how people mix up Mormonism with some of the other "fringier" sects of christianity?

No birthday parties? Nope that's the Jehovah's Witnesses
Can't take medication? Try again! Christian Scientists
Church is on Saturday? Nope! Seventh Day Adventist
Speaking in Tongues? You were looking for Pentecostals

I've knew all of those.

Coffee and Tea are evil? Bingo! we have a winner!

I've never even heard of this. What do Mormons have against tea?

They don't drink caffeine, although the inclusion of Tea kind of leads me to believe that it may be something more? Tea doesn't have caffeine does it?

Edit: Apparently its not the caffeine that prohibits coffee drinking >_>

What???

Drakeon

Daemonion wrote: »

I dated a mormon girl in high school for a little over two years.

Yea, she had a baby at 17, like one year after we broke up.

Was she married at the time? Mormons tend to get married crazy young from what I've noticed.

Daemonion

Drakeon wrote: »

Daemonion wrote: »

I dated a mormon girl in high school for a little over two years.

Yea, she had a baby at 17, like one year after we broke up.

Was she married at the time? Mormons tend to get married crazy young from what I've noticed.

Nope. Just felt like having wild, unprotected sex.

deadonthestreet

No hot drinks so iced tea is just fine!

Some interpret "hot" to mean caffeinated, so Coke is also out.

eHero

Casual Eddy wrote: »

To be fair, polygamy was never widespread through Mormons even when it was at it's height. When polygamy was the most widespread, it was only practiced by about 10% of them. It was a radical and controversial issue among them even then. It's extremely misleading to say that mormons simply believed in polygamy.

It's not misleading at all actually. Section 132 of "The Doctrine and Covenants" declared that a man can't enter Heaven unless he's married at least three women. I paraphrased. And I'm not sure that's in the current edition, and no, I can't tell you what edition it would be in.

And apparently it was so widespread among Mormons that James Buchanan sent the U.S. Army into Utah to dismantle the then Brigham Young led church due to the anti-polygamy sentiment that had gripped the country.

Just because it fell out of favor and it's historical importance removed from the teachings, doesn't mean it didn't happen, and wasn't at one point, one of the most important aspects of the religion.

The nice thing about Mormonism is that all their beliefs, from the beginning of the religion to current day, are all available to research. Everything's been published, so it's easy to have an actual, fact-based discussion about it.

And just for the record, I prefer any religion that I am a part of to have its central figure long dead and untouchable. I'm not saying I hold to a particular belief, I'm just saying I don't want to personally know my prophet. That's just ripe for a big letdown.