Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it,
follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given
their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!
Hey Let's Talk About Mormons!
Posts
Yup, thats true. Caffeine affects the way your brain works and is therefore considered a "drug" to mormons
EDIT: Checked out MoDo's link. I guess it all depends on what "Ward" youre in then
something interestig to note is that when Joseph Smith recieved this revelation in 1833, the medical dangers of these substances were not known, in fact back then, peop0le claimed that tobacco made you stronger, it wasnt untill the 1930s when we discovered the dangers of it. As for soda that contains caffine, its not prohibited, we can drink coke and go t the temple, but it is cauioned against, and i have made an effot to not drink dr pepper(as wel as ny soda because its just unhealthy)
Are Mormon teachings any less batshit insane than other Christian teachings? Perhaps not, but the insanity of their claims are much more apparent because of the fact that Mormonism started in recent history so there is a wealth of good historical information that we can look at regarding their claims and many of their claims are easily falsifiable with modern science. For example, Native Americans definitely did not come from Hebrews.
Also, their religion was supposedly given to them by a being named Moroni. MORONi. Come on. That says it right there.
I wish Mormons would take that belief to its logical conclusion. Sugar affects the way your brain works. They need to stop eating all sugars.
wrong, i have no idea how you came to that conlusion, it says we have to accept the doctrne of polygamy when comanded by the lord, there is no given number that you have to marry however many wives.
that was not because of polygamy, utah had been trying to become a state for some time, unfortunately due to the anti mormon sentiments that existed long before polygamy was announced, the teritory kept recieving corrupt govenors who often left their post after some scandal (like calling mormon wome whores or getting caught with a gentile prostitute) the returned with ill feelings to the church and spread lies of rebellion, thankfully for people like Doniphan. a non mormon politician, it was eventully stopped,
we dont deny that we practiced it, in fact saying on the front page that we do not believe in the doctrine of polygamy any more is untrue, we do stll believe in the doctrine of polygamy, but do not practice it because it is not needed any more .
itd be nice if you were using facts
And just for the record, I prefer any religion that I am a part of to have its central figure long dead and untouchable. I'm not saying I hold to a particular belief, I'm just saying I don't want to personally know my prophet. That's just ripe for a big letdown.[/QUOTE]
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
I don't think it's going to be as fun as you think it is. The only thing that makes Mormanism slightly more palatable then Scientology is the fact that we've been trying to throw it up for longer.
o when i prove that a claim is false, its still a fact? intersting...
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
my argument is, everything you mention i havealready studied for my self, then provided a rational response which you in turn, ignore
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
Here's what's so tricky about mormons for me: in my experience, they're really nice people, even though their beliefs aren't based in reality (kind of like Scientologists, but a dash less brainwashy). You've traded truth for happiness, and on some level, there's no way to argue with that.
So any claim i use, you reply that it is false information from a biased source, where as any information you use, is most likely from an anti mormon source that distorts the truth and leaves out important information, oh this is sur to go somewhere quick
well, at least Mormanism still has the same standard of "proof" as every other religion.
By the way, what you could do, is you know, start posting actual sources. Both sides. Should be good fun.
I'm done donating plasma, so it would be easier, but i have enough homework that ill be pretty busy. I think its obvious that I am probably the only ACTIVE member of the church on these forums, the only thing i can ask is that, honestly, there is so much distorted notions of the church out there, that you allow me the opportunity atleast to answer whatever claims are made.
Do you have a link to that portion of the D&C? Because I looked and I can't find it.
It is also true that only a portion of the Mormons (mostly higher-ups in the church) practiced polygamy. It's really expensive to take care of a family with that many people. Described in Under the Banner of Heaven (not exactly a pro-Mormon book.)
Yes, the Army was sent to "deal" with the Mormons. Definitely not just because they were polygamists. There was a lot of anti-Mormon sentiment around the country (as there was everywhere they had lived, hence why they kept moving around and eventually ended up in the middle of nowhere). People were not happy with the polygamy angle, but the government was more concerned with the fact that the Mormons wanted to be more and more autonomous and independent from the rest of the Union. Also the backlash from the Mountain Meadows incident (massacre) and other harassing/attacks on non-Mormons in Utah Territory.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxBGCV2C_r4
LURK mod for SoC|Backloggery|XBL|XFire|Steam|Zune
www.mormon.org and www.lds.org
Well I don't really care on whether we can agree if it's fair/accurate; I looked through D&C 132 on lds.org and couldn't find the part eHero was talking about. But Magus said that people were reviewing "revised" texts. So show me the unrevised text - Mormonism isn't that old, it must be somewhere.
Fair enough. I'm not even going to try be a moderator in here-just going along for the ride.
Okay, I may be willing to concede the three wife rule at the moment. I can't find a good source for that anywhere, and every search I come up with leads back to my original source, which was "Under the Banner of Heaven." That passage is quoted several times, as it relates to section 132 and three wives. And if that source is incorrect, then so am I.
Regardless, polygamy was still a major part of Mormonism, and it was only pushed in the background due to public pressure. My problem with this is that everything else I've read leads me to believe this was a central tenet of the faith. You don't just push these things to the back because the public is against it. This is a mandate from God! Other religions have done this too, and if we ever start up a thread on them, I'll try to chime in on how that irks me.
And here are two articles right quick that talk about anti-polygamy sentiment during the James Buchanan era. Not necessarily anti-Mormon. I understand that Mormons could have been the only people practicing it, but from what the articles state, it was the polygamist practices that got them in trouble.
James Buchanan blurb
Polygamy Troubles
Look, I obviously have a dim view of this particular religion. And honestly, of the five Mormons I've met in my lifetime, I disliked 100% of them. Mostly due to their, "I'm better than you, my light shines brighter than yours" rhetoric that they never seemed to shut up about. I'm sure there are good Mormons out there, just as I'm sure there are politically-biased news reports on Fox. But this is my experience, and if five people have the exact same character flaws, well, I'm only human and I'm quick to judge.
But I'm perfectly willing to admit a mistake if I cite a source wrong, or if the source I cite is wrong. I'm only as good as the research I'm capable of doing. I'm certainly not spouting off things I'm just making up off the top of my head, just to prove my point. And I apologize if it seemed that way. If someone does find an unrevised link to Section 132 though (which may actually be a different section number originally), let me know!
If there's one thing I just can't fucking stand it's monotextuals.
STEAM ID
Well, your job would be made easier if those making claims about the Mormon Church would post sources, at which point you'd need only refute them.
However...
I'm not sure I'm buying those as impartial sources, particularly of historical Church doctrine.
Nobody said anything about impartial sources. If you want to know what Mormons believe then there are no better sites than those listed above.
He was asking for a fair represenation of our beliefs, if you want to know what a Member of the Church of Jesus Christ believes, ask him, if you want to know what a catholic believes, ask him, protestant? better ask that guy. Hindu? theres a Krishna Temple in Spanish Fork i can point you to.
In other news, quit being deliberately obtuse.
The 33% are the ones who joined Lucifer in his war with God.
The whole "Outer Darkness" thing is misunderstood. It's not the same as Hell and not all sinners go there. It's for the worst, the unredeemable, the truly dead souls.
Whoever told you that got the Terrestrial and the Telestial kingdoms backwards.
I didn't hang around the Mormon church after age 17, so I didn't get to see the truly nutty parts of temple worship.
To be honest, all Christian metaphysics are nutty.
I agree, though, that the best Christian litmus is "asshole/not asshole".
Yes, but at least some portion of this conversation has been about historical Mormon beliefs. Not what you believe, or what the Mormon down the street believes, but what a Mormon a hundred years ago believed.
And at least some of your responses have been, IIRC, an attempt to refute some of these historical beliefs.
Sorry, I'm not buying current Mormon-run websites as reliable sources of info regarding Church doctrine from a hundred years ago.
I have a hard time drawing a distinction between those.
Sorry, my mistake.
I was raised in a Mormon family, did the whole Mormon thing until I was 15 or 16. In my experience, most Mormon's beef with caffeine isn't that it's a drug, it's that you can become addicted to it (though I guess there's some controversy on whether or not that's a physical addiction or not? I dunno, never cared enough to research it myself). I don't really remember the exact idea behind it, but it involved something along the lines of your body being a "temple of the Lord" so you should keep it as pure as possible, and having a dependency of some sort on something like caffeine is bad. I was told there were some Mormons that actually followed the whole no "hot drinks" thing, but I have never ever met a single Mormon who actually follows that (and very few who won't eat chocolate because it contains a tiny amount of caffeine).
The 33% of souls don't get to have bodies is right, though I dunno that it was a "33% chance." The idea is Satan had a plan of some sort for Earth (I think it was forcing them to obey God's commandments), 1/3 of the souls in heaven thought it was a good plan, they all get thrown out of heaven and don't get to have bodies like all the cool souls (AKA: the ones who liked Jesus's plan, which I was think was having free-will and choosing whether or not to obey God's commandments). That whole event was known as the "War in Heaven." End result is still the same, and really what Qingu said was pretty accurate.
And for the 3 levels of heaven , they're all a big step up from the Earth (the stars, moon, and sun are supposed to be something like a brightness to awesomeness ratio).
Really, I don't see how Mormons are any more ridiculous than any other Christian denominations. It's different than other Christian beliefs, but not anymore far-fetched.
What unnerves me is the until-recent racism, especially toward Native Americans (of which I am one). Now that the church doesn't officially promote racism, I try my best to judge them individually.
Invite me: XBox Live | PS3 | Steam
Link to me: Number Sorter | Achievement Generator
Though to their credit I never really felt pressured to join but there was a palpable "holier than thou" atmosphere.
Things pretty much ended when she found http://www.exmormon.org/ in my browser history, I'd been doing some research and read a lot of the stories on that site which definitely influenced my opinion of the church. Not to mention some of the weirder things I saw first-hand that would be uncouth of me to list...