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Socialized Communist Healthcare (Canadians, Brits, et al)

123468

Posts

  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    There's a difference between fair and equal. There is overlap too, but the two are not synonyms.

    If we refused to build wheelchair ramps and insisted paraplegics use stairs, that's treating them equally, flatly, but is that fair?


    Frankly, anybody who's adamant about flat taxation and completely privatized social services needs to recognize that it's no longer the Industrial Revolution, and that the argument that such systems are "fair" is obsolete. The idea that such a system is fair is so completely removed from modern Western ideas of fairness that every time they pop up in an forum thread, the thread simply tracks to a halt. Western liberalism has moved so far that such arguments are simply doomed to extinguish in the desert.*

    * That is not to say that such systems are bad or dysfunctional. Simply that the argument that such systems are fair does not and will not work.

    hippofant on
  • CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    hippofant wrote: »
    There's a difference between fair and equal.

    Seriously.

    Corvus on
    :so_raven:
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    L*2*G*X wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    You need a combined system, where emergency care and actually curing diseases is the realm of the private company, offering this sort of thing at reasonable rates to everyone


    Died fucking laughing, had to post without reading the rest of the thread. Companies give reasonable rates on stuff?
    REASONABLE?

    edit:

    Dislike the system here since our minsiter of health took a lesson in New Labour, but they didn't completely dismantle it yet.

    Biggest issue is our mental health care, handicapped care, rare afflictions, etc. where they could cut easily without the general populace seeing the results.

    Would vote for anyone proposing more socialism economicaly, with outsourced quality control.

    Ahh, the exact UK system, our NHS is now bankrupt. That was a fun little experiment in more socialism with outsourced quality control wasn't it.

    Universal Health Care - Chronic injuries, Disability allowances, anything which cannot be cured (asthma etc). This is hugely expensive, and the companies have to charge their absurd rates because the people who want their services the most, are these people who they can't afford to insure.

    Private Care - Emergency and curing diseases. Short term care is cheap, and you want the best possible drugs to make you better. UHC can't do this, because its too expensive. Only through private care where you can encourage competition for low rates and high quality can you do this.

    Private health insurance fails because of the price of Chronic conditions. Remove that from them and you can get a system where a regulated market can offer fair prices, for quality services.

    tbloxham on
    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    tbloxham wrote: »
    L*2*G*X wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    You need a combined system, where emergency care and actually curing diseases is the realm of the private company, offering this sort of thing at reasonable rates to everyone


    Died fucking laughing, had to post without reading the rest of the thread. Companies give reasonable rates on stuff?
    REASONABLE?

    edit:

    Dislike the system here since our minsiter of health took a lesson in New Labour, but they didn't completely dismantle it yet.

    Biggest issue is our mental health care, handicapped care, rare afflictions, etc. where they could cut easily without the general populace seeing the results.

    Would vote for anyone proposing more socialism economicaly, with outsourced quality control.

    Ahh, the exact UK system, our NHS is now bankrupt. That was a fun little experiment in more socialism with outsourced quality control wasn't it.

    Universal Health Care - Chronic injuries, Disability allowances, anything which cannot be cured (asthma etc). This is hugely expensive, and the companies have to charge their absurd rates because the people who want their services the most, are these people who they can't afford to insure.

    Private Care - Emergency and curing diseases. Short term care is cheap, and you want the best possible drugs to make you better. UHC can't do this, because its too expensive. Only through private care where you can encourage competition for low rates and high quality can you do this.

    Private health insurance fails because of the price of Chronic conditions. Remove that from them and you can get a system where a regulated market can offer fair prices, for quality services.

    I don't think you can really break it down to "chronic care is expensive and short term care is cheap." That's really simplistic.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Private Care - Emergency and curing diseases. Short term care is cheap, and you want the best possible drugs to make you better. UHC can't do this, because its too expensive. Only through private care where you can encourage competition for low rates and high quality can you do this.
    UHC does not mandate the death of private health enterprise - it reflects a ceiling price (generally) on the general provision of health services, or a luxury option. In Australia, for elective surgeries you can skip the waiting lists and pay for a private hospital to do it immediately - but the point is that if you can't afford this, then you can still get the surgery (and the public system is a big enough deal that politicians dare not attack it too directly).

    electricitylikesme on
  • Willeh DeeWilleh Dee Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Flat tax is the opposite of fair, genius.

    Flatter.

    Willeh Dee on
  • Willeh DeeWilleh Dee Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Also, giving out free health care to non citizens who have come here just to scab off of the NHS, yea, great for tax paying British citizens.

    Willeh Dee on
  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    Also, giving out free health care to non citizens who have come here just to scab off of the NHS, yea, great for tax paying British citizens.

    I think you're getting your news from the Sun mate.

    That's the nicest way I can put it.

    You're in hospital at the moment?

    Get out of bed and find an illegal immigrant.

    poshniallo on
    I figure I could take a bear.
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    I don't think you can really break it down to "chronic care is expensive and short term care is cheap." That's really simplistic.

    It's an incorrect breakdown actually, since generally acute care is considered considerably more expensive than the chronic care that could have been used to prevent the need for acute care. Such as in the case of diabetes, cancer, etc,. Mitigating these diseases with early detection and appropriate chronic care is much cheaper than dealing with them and their side-effects in acute care situations. By not treating asthma, as cited in the example, you'll end up treating patients with all sorts of respiratory distress in much more expensive and dangerous ways. In Canada certainly, health care experts are recognizing this and attempting to establish support systems to keep people out of hospitals by addressing their health care needs before they reach that stage of need.

    The point may be that there are chronic uncurable diseases for which public health systems provide care at impractical cost:benefit ratios. That happened earlier this year in Ontario when the provincial government approved funding for Avastin at an average cost of over $100 000 per year of life prolonged. Some might argue that life is priceless, but given that Avastin provides little to no quality of life improvements, the > $100 000 could be spent in far better ways if the goals are to increase life expectancy and/or improve quality of life. But that's the compassionate nature of public health systems - and the <redacted> nature of our pharmaceutical industries.

    Still, in general, you want to avoid acute care (hospitals) as much as possible because it's more expensive and it's more dangerous.

    hippofant on
  • Willeh DeeWilleh Dee Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    Also, giving out free health care to non citizens who have come here just to scab off of the NHS, yea, great for tax paying British citizens.

    I think you're getting your news from the Sun mate.

    That's the nicest way I can put it.

    You're in hospital at the moment?

    Get out of bed and find an illegal immigrant.

    I was in a private hospital, it was pretty much all white British. Why bring up Illegal immigrants? Theres plenty of people in this thread who have described how there friends are in the UK because back home they cant afford health care, or that when they holiday here they go to the Dr just because they can.

    I know I could go on the Daily Mail or the Sun newspapers website and find loads of silly story's like this, but theres no smoke without fire.

    Willeh Dee on
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    Also, giving out free health care to non citizens who have come here just to scab off of the NHS, yea, great for tax paying British citizens.

    I think you're getting your news from the Sun mate.

    That's the nicest way I can put it.

    You're in hospital at the moment?

    Get out of bed and find an illegal immigrant.

    I was in a private hospital, it was pretty much all white British. Why bring up Illegal immigrants? Theres plenty of people in this thread who have described how there friends are in the UK because back home they cant afford health care, or that when they holiday here they go to the Dr just because they can.

    I know I could go on the Daily Mail or the Sun newspapers website and find loads of silly story's like this, but theres no smoke without fire.

    Um. Don't they have to pay? I know patients in Ontario hospitals who are not Ontario citizens, and thus not covered by our provincial health insurance plan, need to pay for medical care if they don't have private insurance. Or they're billed anyways, if they're near-death or otherwise unable to pay upfront.

    hippofant on
  • Willeh DeeWilleh Dee Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    hippofant wrote: »
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    Also, giving out free health care to non citizens who have come here just to scab off of the NHS, yea, great for tax paying British citizens.

    I think you're getting your news from the Sun mate.

    That's the nicest way I can put it.

    You're in hospital at the moment?

    Get out of bed and find an illegal immigrant.

    I was in a private hospital, it was pretty much all white British. Why bring up Illegal immigrants? Theres plenty of people in this thread who have described how there friends are in the UK because back home they cant afford health care, or that when they holiday here they go to the Dr just because they can.

    I know I could go on the Daily Mail or the Sun newspapers website and find loads of silly story's like this, but theres no smoke without fire.

    Um. Don't they have to pay? I know patients in Ontario hospitals who are not Ontario citizens, and thus not covered by our provincial health insurance plan, need to pay for medical care if they don't have private insurance. Or they're billed anyways, if they're near-death or otherwise unable to pay upfront.

    Allot of the time, incompetence means they will get away with not paying, which from a organization that is so fucking tight assed that you have to have had tonsilitus 8 times within 8 months to get a fucking Tonsillectomy, is a bit frustrating to say the least.

    Willeh Dee on
  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    Also, giving out free health care to non citizens who have come here just to scab off of the NHS, yea, great for tax paying British citizens.

    I think you're getting your news from the Sun mate.

    That's the nicest way I can put it.

    You're in hospital at the moment?

    Get out of bed and find an illegal immigrant.

    I was in a private hospital, it was pretty much all white British. Why bring up Illegal immigrants? Theres plenty of people in this thread who have described how there friends are in the UK because back home they cant afford health care, or that when they holiday here they go to the Dr just because they can.

    I know I could go on the Daily Mail or the Sun newspapers website and find loads of silly story's like this, but theres no smoke without fire.

    Where did 'plenty of people' say this?

    Where did anyone say this?

    There's no smoke without fire from The Sun?

    And in a private hospital, anyone can pay. I'm sure all those white people were British, though. Sounds kinda racist to me - if you see people with dark skin in an NHS hospital are they freeloading foreigners? How do you know? Ah, the Sun told you.

    And the NHS avoiding surgery for tonsilitis is also about not using general anaesthetics needlessly.

    Foreign patients have to pay. Some default on their payments, but the people clamouring about that are... the Daily Mail, The Daily Telegraph and The British National Party.

    You really don't seem to know what you're talking about.

    poshniallo on
    I figure I could take a bear.
  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Ahh, the exact UK system, our NHS is now bankrupt.

    No it isn't.

    Alistair Hutton on
    I have a thoughtful and infrequently updated blog about games http://whatithinkaboutwhenithinkaboutgames.wordpress.com/

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  • CenturionCenturion Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Hey there, I'm German so I think I can share some experiences about our healthcare system and taxes. Warning: I'm a little bit long-winded, so the tl;dr-version is: Our system is alright, could maybe be run more efficiently, working conditions and pay for doctors and nurses should be improved, would never want to have the US system.

    How do you feel about your system?

    I think it's alright. As in most other European countries, we have a national system but you can also go private if your earnings are above a certain level (which is not that low) for three years. I don't why we have that restriction, maybe it's to make sure that everyone pumps at least a certain amount of money into the national system before going private. The system is pretty expensive in my opinion and my only real gripe with it is that it we could probably get better care and better working conditions for doctors and nurses for less money if only the system were managed better.

    I personally have an additional private plan that covers special things like eyesight, some dental stuff and hospitalization, so that I can always have a single room when I need to go to the hospital etc. I don't think I really need it, but I hate hospital stays in general, so in the event that I have to stay there longer, I think it's worth it.

    Would you trade it for the current US system of private insurance?

    Never. And I say that as someone who is young, single, generally healthy and has above average income, so the US system would probably be financially advantageous for me. But I once staid in the US for half a year as a research student and in that time I saw more people with visible and treatable medical conditions in daily life than in my whole life before. I found that kind of depressing and knowing that my horrendous monthly payments help make sure that we don't have that here improves my own quality of life, in my opinion.

    What I think might be a good option is a system where all insurers are private but insurance is mandatory and heavily regulated so that everyone can get insurance at an affordable rate and people with little or no income would be subsidized. That would basically make little difference for the people, but private organizations are usually run more efficiently in my experience, so it might improve things. I believe somebody once told me that it works like that in Switzerland, but I'm not sure so maybe someone else can enlighten me on that.

    What do you like about your system?

    Quality of care is good or at least acceptable and almost nobody falls through the cracks. It varies a little based on what you have and where you are treated. When my grandma was diagnosed with terminal cancer, she was at a special hospital for conditions of that kind and the care was fantastic: 1 nurse for every 4 patients and so on. My dad had some minor surgery (hernia and stuff like that) in the last couple of years in local hospitals and it was always good.

    What do you hate about it?

    Hate is too strong a word. As I said, the only thing is that it should be managed more efficiently.

    I have heard criticisms of the Dreaded Socialized Medicine where things are bandied about like, "Everyone gets the same treatment no matter how much care they need" and "Do you want to wait to see a doctor?"

    Um, no. As others have noted, you wait if you can wait and that's it. And you get exactly what you need. I myself suffered from otosclerosis and had stapedectomy done to correct it. Bear in mind that this is basically a procedure that is not exactly life-preserving, but improves my quality of living. Also, it's something that requires a very skilled surgeon and at that time, was only carried out by three hospitals in the country. I had it done on both ears and it was all paid for by insurance. The results were nothing short of spectacular.

    I've also heard that there are sometimes not enough specialists to go around or that doctors don't make a fair wage under these systems.

    The first thing I can't confirm but I do think that the doctors and nurses working in our hospitals should earn more money and more importantly, have their working conditions improved. Medical education is still widely considered to be top notch in Germany, but the really good doctors seem to go to Switzerland, the UK or Scandinavia quite often because of better pay and working conditions.

    Now on to taxes. Approximately the following amounts are taken out of my monthly paycheck:

    Income Tax - 21.5%
    Tax for the Rebuilding of Eastern Germany - 1.2%
    Church Tax - 1.7%
    Health Insurance - 7.6%
    Social Pension Fund - 10%
    Employment Insurance - 1.6%
    Long Term Care Insurance - 1.2%

    So my effective tax rate is approximately 44.8% including social security, but bear in mind that the return of the social pension fund will not be enough to live on after retirement, so I do have to have private plans in addition.

    I have a colleague who is from the USA originally and he makes close to twice as much as I do, so he must have about the maximum effective tax rate. But he considers it a bargain for all the stuff we get from the government and would not consider going back to the US to work there.

    Centurion on
  • Willeh DeeWilleh Dee Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    Also, giving out free health care to non citizens who have come here just to scab off of the NHS, yea, great for tax paying British citizens.

    I think you're getting your news from the Sun mate.

    That's the nicest way I can put it.

    You're in hospital at the moment?

    Get out of bed and find an illegal immigrant.

    I was in a private hospital, it was pretty much all white British. Why bring up Illegal immigrants? Theres plenty of people in this thread who have described how there friends are in the UK because back home they cant afford health care, or that when they holiday here they go to the Dr just because they can.

    I know I could go on the Daily Mail or the Sun newspapers website and find loads of silly story's like this, but theres no smoke without fire.

    Where did 'plenty of people' say this?

    Plenty of people have said it in this thread, read it.

    Where did anyone say this?
    poshniallo wrote: »
    There's no smoke without fire from The Sun?

    Says the guy who spouted crap about "gee that seems kinda racist" Fucking idiot, you just went to the exact pathetic extreme opposite idiotic hippy naive left of the Daily Mail, nice one.

    poshniallo wrote: »
    And in a private hospital, anyone can pay. I'm sure all those white people were British, though. Sounds kinda racist to me - if you see people with dark skin in an NHS hospital are they freeloading foreigners? How do you know? Ah, the Sun told you.

    Ahahahah, thanks for posting this, good job. I was replying to the guy who asked me to find an Illegal Immigrant in the Hospital I was in, and with it being private, the chances of finding someone in the country Illegally were slim to none, I was merely pointing that out. Of course I understand that anyone can get private health care completely unrelated to race or colour, thanks for posting that though, trying to make me seem like a racist and all.

    Oh, and if you go back and read the thread, I have already taken the piss out of the Sun/Daily Mail, its not where I get my information from.
    poshniallo wrote: »
    And the NHS avoiding surgery for tonsilitis is also about not using general anaesthetics needlessly.

    This, this right here, this is my problem with the NHS, bare minimum. You shouldn't have to try and avoid things when it comes to health care because your trying to be very stingy with the budget, if you are, something isn't working out right.
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Foreign patients have to pay. Some default on their payments, but the people clamouring about that are... the Daily Mail, The Daily Telegraph and The British National Party.

    You really don't seem to know what you're talking about.

    Look into the facts and figures on it. Waste is abundant in the NHS, and then they tell tax payers they cant have treatments because they cost to much.

    Willeh Dee on
  • BallmanBallman Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    And the NHS avoiding surgery for tonsilitis is also about not using general anaesthetics needlessly.

    This, this right here, this is my problem with the NHS, bare minimum. You shouldn't have to try and avoid things when it comes to health care because your trying to be very stingy with the budget, if you are, something isn't working out right.

    I could be wrong, as I'm no doctor, but I've heard from a few different sources that it's a good practice to avoid general anesthetic whenever possible, as the chances of death or other complications from the anesthetic are usually far higher than from the surgery alone. When I had my wisdom teeth out, for instance, I had to go through a lot of discussion and paperwork informing me of the dangers of knocking me out for the procedure.

    Edit: I'm not trying to say you're flat wrong, but there are many other accounts in this thread of people talking about how helpful their NHS has been for expensive care & procedures. Denying anesthetic for financial reasons seems odd in comparison.

    Ballman on
  • desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I know the conversation has moved on somewhat, but here's my experience... Diagnosed with Type 1 (juvenile, as opposed to fatty) diabetes a few years ago (when I was 23) by a GP I paid $10 to see. Tests cost nothing.

    Went to the emergency room and waited 5 hours to see a doctor. Slept in emergency because there were no beds available (fair enough, it was late at night) and needed constant supervision while they dealt with my blood sugars.

    Moved to a spare bed the next day. Stayed there for about 5 days recovering. Ate well. Watched tv a lot. Had the room to myself until my last day.

    Was given medication and a blood glucose monitor and some education with regular follow-ups at a clinic.

    Total cost: $0.

    And it only costs me about $100 a year to get my insulin, and I need 2 prescriptions per year.

    I don't know what I'd be like if I lived in the US, but suffice it to say, I'm fucking glad I don't.

    desperaterobots on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited October 2008
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    And the NHS avoiding surgery for tonsilitis is also about not using general anaesthetics needlessly.

    This, this right here, this is my problem with the NHS, bare minimum. You shouldn't have to try and avoid things when it comes to health care because your trying to be very stingy with the budget, if you are, something isn't working out right.

    As already explained:

    General anaesthesia has a non-insignificant chance of fucking killing you.

    To be quite honest, I think they're more interested in the not killing you part than whatever general anaesthesia costs. If this means you being conscious and just locally sedated rather than fully put under, then that's what they'll do.

    Anesthesiology is more of an art and guesswork than actual science.

    Echo on
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    Even local anaesthetic can cause complications.

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Yeah, the expense of anesthetics is not the issue, it's the risk. I know that I will have to make a decision concerning surgery next month, and if it is only a temporary solution to my problems I'm not willing to be anethetisized because of the risk involved. I'll bet money as well that when I talk to my doctor about it he won't recommend it either, for those very same reasons.

    oldmanken on
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Echo wrote: »

    General anaesthesia has a non-insignificant chance of fucking killing you.

    Wait, what?

    They put me under to do my wisdom teeth.

    Evil Multifarious on
  • CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Echo wrote: »

    General anaesthesia has a non-insignificant chance of fucking killing you.

    Wait, what?

    They put me under to do my wisdom teeth.

    Its still true.

    Corvus on
    :so_raven:
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    How did it have a chance of killing me though? Through allergies? What? I'm genuinely curious and concerned.

    Evil Multifarious on
  • Professor PhobosProfessor Phobos Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    How did it have a chance of killing me though? Through allergies? What? I'm genuinely curious and concerned.

    Anything capable of making someone unconscious can kill that person, and it can often be difficult to gauge exactly what dosage is necessary, etc.

    Professor Phobos on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited October 2008
    How did it have a chance of killing me though? Through allergies? What? I'm genuinely curious and concerned.

    Anything capable of making someone unconscious can kill that person, and it can often be difficult to gauge exactly what dosage is necessary, etc.

    Yeah, putting someone under is still a fair bit into the realm of estimated guesswork rather than medical science.

    Echo on
  • Willeh DeeWilleh Dee Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Echo wrote: »
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    And the NHS avoiding surgery for tonsilitis is also about not using general anaesthetics needlessly.

    This, this right here, this is my problem with the NHS, bare minimum. You shouldn't have to try and avoid things when it comes to health care because your trying to be very stingy with the budget, if you are, something isn't working out right.

    As already explained:

    General anaesthesia has a non-insignificant chance of fucking killing you.

    To be quite honest, I think they're more interested in the not killing you part than whatever general anaesthesia costs. If this means you being conscious and just locally sedated rather than fully put under, then that's what they'll do.

    Anesthesiology is more of an art and guesswork than actual science.

    This is the case for people at risk, old people etc etc. From what I was told its perfectly fine to use on healthy young people.

    Go private with insurance or pay for it, and one case of Tonsillitis and you have the option of getting them lopped out, its not advised because it might be a one time thing, but its available. I think your pulling stuff out of your ass.

    Willeh Dee on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited October 2008
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    This is the case for people at risk, old people etc etc. From what I was told its perfectly fine to use on healthy young people.

    You need better sources telling you stuff.

    Echo on
  • BobCescaBobCesca Is a girl Birmingham, UKRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    This guy has something interesting facts about general anaesthesia

    BobCesca on
  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Centurion wrote: »
    Now on to taxes. Approximately the following amounts are taken out of my monthly paycheck:

    Income Tax - 21.5%
    Tax for the Rebuilding of Eastern Germany - 1.2%
    Church Tax - 1.7%
    Health Insurance - 7.6%
    Social Pension Fund - 10%
    Employment Insurance - 1.6%
    Long Term Care Insurance - 1.2%

    So my effective tax rate is approximately 44.8% including social security, but bear in mind that the return of the social pension fund will not be enough to live on after retirement, so I do have to have private plans in addition.

    How high is your Value-Added Tax?

    enc0re on
  • Willeh DeeWilleh Dee Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Echo wrote: »
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    This is the case for people at risk, old people etc etc. From what I was told its perfectly fine to use on healthy young people.

    You need better sources telling you stuff.

    Like 3 different private practice surgeons and a NHS GP? OK.

    Willeh Dee on
  • Willeh DeeWilleh Dee Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Willeh Dee on
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    How did it have a chance of killing me though? Through allergies? What? I'm genuinely curious and concerned.

    Blood pressure problems and arrhythmia usually, not sure what else usually accompanies it.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • NATIKNATIK DenmarkRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Willeh Dee wrote: »

    Honestly I think that is a cool project and many others of its kind exist, I will however agree that the NHS dosn't seem like the right government group to start such a project.

    NATIK on
    steam_sig.png
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    And the NHS avoiding surgery for tonsilitis is also about not using general anaesthetics needlessly.

    This, this right here, this is my problem with the NHS, bare minimum. You shouldn't have to try and avoid things when it comes to health care because your trying to be very stingy with the budget, if you are, something isn't working out right.

    I waited over 30 months for a tonsillectomy in the US due to our shitty health care system. And I had to yell and bitch out an insurance company rep over the phone to make it was covered.

    Regardless of whether your coverage is private or public, unless you're paying for all your medical expenses with cold hard cash, there will be some bean counter chained to some desk somewhere who will look at your paperwork and try to find budgetary corners he can cut at the expense of your health.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • Willeh DeeWilleh Dee Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    And the NHS avoiding surgery for tonsilitis is also about not using general anaesthetics needlessly.

    This, this right here, this is my problem with the NHS, bare minimum. You shouldn't have to try and avoid things when it comes to health care because your trying to be very stingy with the budget, if you are, something isn't working out right.

    I waited over 30 months for a tonsillectomy in the US due to our shitty health care system. And I had to yell and bitch out an insurance company rep over the phone to make it was covered.

    Regardless of whether your coverage is private or public, unless you're paying for all your medical expenses with cold hard cash, there will be some bean counter chained to some desk somewhere who will look at your paperwork and try to find budgetary corners he can cut at the expense of your health.

    From what you have told me in the thread, you sound like you have a very shitty deal with whatever your set up with.

    I'm not going to pretend im not biased as fuck as someone with apposed to someone without.

    Willeh Dee on
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    Echo wrote: »
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    This is the case for people at risk, old people etc etc. From what I was told its perfectly fine to use on healthy young people.

    You need better sources telling you stuff.

    Like 3 different private practice surgeons and a NHS GP? OK.
    I'm in the navy. Our ships our powered with love. Trust me.

    Good old fashioned, dependable man love.

    Quid on
  • KartanKartan Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    enc0re wrote: »
    Centurion wrote: »
    Now on to taxes. Approximately the following amounts are taken out of my monthly paycheck:

    Income Tax - 21.5%
    Tax for the Rebuilding of Eastern Germany - 1.2%
    Church Tax - 1.7%
    Health Insurance - 7.6%
    Social Pension Fund - 10%
    Employment Insurance - 1.6%
    Long Term Care Insurance - 1.2%

    So my effective tax rate is approximately 44.8% including social security, but bear in mind that the return of the social pension fund will not be enough to live on after retirement, so I do have to have private plans in addition.

    How high is your Value-Added Tax?

    19% in general, 7% for groceries and some other stuff.

    Kartan on
  • Mithrandir86Mithrandir86 Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Kartan wrote: »
    enc0re wrote: »
    Centurion wrote: »
    Now on to taxes. Approximately the following amounts are taken out of my monthly paycheck:

    Income Tax - 21.5%
    Tax for the Rebuilding of Eastern Germany - 1.2%
    Church Tax - 1.7%
    Health Insurance - 7.6%
    Social Pension Fund - 10%
    Employment Insurance - 1.6%
    Long Term Care Insurance - 1.2%

    So my effective tax rate is approximately 44.8% including social security, but bear in mind that the return of the social pension fund will not be enough to live on after retirement, so I do have to have private plans in addition.

    How high is your Value-Added Tax?

    19% in general, 7% for groceries and some other stuff.

    What are these things? (if you don't mind explaining them)

    Mithrandir86 on
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    And the NHS avoiding surgery for tonsilitis is also about not using general anaesthetics needlessly.

    This, this right here, this is my problem with the NHS, bare minimum. You shouldn't have to try and avoid things when it comes to health care because your trying to be very stingy with the budget, if you are, something isn't working out right.

    I waited over 30 months for a tonsillectomy in the US due to our shitty health care system. And I had to yell and bitch out an insurance company rep over the phone to make it was covered.

    Regardless of whether your coverage is private or public, unless you're paying for all your medical expenses with cold hard cash, there will be some bean counter chained to some desk somewhere who will look at your paperwork and try to find budgetary corners he can cut at the expense of your health.

    From what you have told me in the thread, you sound like you have a very shitty deal with whatever your set up with.

    I'm not going to pretend im not biased as fuck as someone with apposed to someone without.

    This shit is so fucking common in the US. You have to argue with your insurance company to get stuff on your policy covered or else you pay $rape for the procedure because they don't want to pay or don't see it as a "necessary" surgery or procedure.

    Examples of stuff I've had to contest in the past:

    1) Flu shot
    2) Kidney stone ultrasound removal (friend had to contest this)
    3) laser eye surgery (friend went to Canada because of cost to do it in the US)
    4) physicals
    5) splints
    6) crutches for a broken leg (friend)
    7) x rays (yay $2000 bills are wonderful!)

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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