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Networks, Switches, Static IPs, oh my!

Dr SnofeldDr Snofeld Registered User
The network situation in my house is as follows:

Router is connected to Computer A (stepdad's PC) and Network Switch
Network Switch is connected to Computer B (my PC) and Computer C (sisters' PC)

It's only like this because of the new router we got, from which stems my problem.

I need to get Steam to run. In order to do that I need to forward ports, but for THAT I need a static IP. I set one up for Computer B last night while A and C were switched off and things worked fine.

Today my stepdad tried to forward ports from Computer A, using the static IP I'd set up. I switched on Computer B to check if it'd worked and couldn't get a net connection. Computer C couldn't get one either.

Switched Computers A and C around so A was attached to the switch and C was attached to the router. That made A unable to get a net connection but C could.

Removing the static IP on Computer B and putting it back to dynamic IP, and then rebooting, fixed everything.

My instinct is that the problem stemmed from only Computer B having a static IP. I think giving each PC its own static IP might solve things but I want to be sure before I try anything.

tl;dr: If one PC on a network has a static IP do they all need one?

Dr Snofeld on
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Posts

  • Dance CommanderDance Commander Registered User
    edited October 2008
    What is the range of addresses that the router gives out via DHCP, and what were you statically configuring your IP to? Mixing dynamic and static IPs on one network should cause no problems whatsoever if done properly, but you need to be careful that the router isn't trying to give out your static IP to the people connected dynamically.
    Your static IP need not be in the same range as the DHCP ones. My static IP is 192.168.1.7, but the DHCP range is 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.150

  • Dr SnofeldDr Snofeld Registered User
    edited October 2008
    What is the range of addresses that the router gives out via DHCP, and what were you statically configuring your IP to? Mixing dynamic and static IPs on one network should cause no problems whatsoever if done properly, but you need to be careful that the router isn't trying to give out your static IP to the people connected dynamically.
    Your static IP need not be in the same range as the DHCP ones. My static IP is 192.168.1.7, but the DHCP range is 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.150

    That's what made me think it's a problem with the mix of static and dynamic IPs.

    Anyway I was following this guide: http://www.portforward.com/networking/static-vista.htm It was linked from the Steam support pages (the site itself I mean). I got the correct DNS server from some scanning website or other (you know, you visit it and it tells you your DNS IP, and you can ping it and stuff) and since it did actually work for a while that's not the problem. So I can only think it's a network thing.

    Was trying to set my IP to 192.168.1.117. Just a random last number.

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  • ArrathArrath Registered User
    edited October 2008
    That might be your problem, I know my router defaulted to 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.150 for DHCP. Try something below .100 for the static address.

    cj iwakura wrote:
    Making for Oregon is suicide, as DOS games have shown.
  • Dr SnofeldDr Snofeld Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Arrath wrote: »
    That might be your problem, I know my router defaulted to 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.150 for DHCP. Try something below .100 for the static address.

    What's DHCP? Is it the range of dynamic IPs the router will hand out?

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  • ArrathArrath Registered User
    edited October 2008
    One of the ways DHCP can be set is to hand them out dynamically, so yes. That range is just reserved for DHCP to use in whatever way it is configured. If you're doing something manually, I'd use something outside that range.

    cj iwakura wrote:
    Making for Oregon is suicide, as DOS games have shown.
  • WheezerWheezer Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Also, you might need to set the DNS servers manually. The easy way is to automatically acquire an IP, make a note of the DNS servers, set the IP to manual and enter the DNS servers like they were.

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  • zanetheinsanezanetheinsane Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    A lot of routers (almost all, actually) support configuring the DHCP range. For example, I would set ours to something like 192.168.1.100 - 192.168.1.254. This way it will only assign DHCP IPs in the 100-254 range, while I can set all of my static devices (servers, routers, etc) to static IPs in the 1-99 range.

    This makes sure that if a static IP machine gets turned off somehow, a DHCP client doesn't accidentally take their IP and then I turn it back on and there's a conflict somewhere.

  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Yeah, you definitely need to get the ipconfig info for your step-dad's PC as a starting block, and maybe post the IP, default gateway, and DNS of his machine here for us to dissect (edit: along with your own settings, of course).

    Beyond that, make sure you're using the DNS address of the router, and that you're forwarding in both the Vista firewall (or have it disabled) as well as the router NAT firewall. Look around the router settings to try and find that DHCP range.

  • Dark ShroudDark Shroud Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Port forwarding isn't needed with the Vista firewall. You just have to add the program to the allow list and make sure exceptions are allowed.

  • Dr SnofeldDr Snofeld Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Update: I initially used ipconfig/all on my own PC to get the details for setting the static IP. To get the DNS server IP I had to go to a site that told me (by analysing my incoming data or something, I have no idea. I could connect to the net and everything. The problem only appeared the next day: he was on his PC and I turned mine on and couldn't connect.

    So tomorrow I'm gonna check what the DHCP range is, and try a static IP outside that range. Then try the whole thing again. I'll run ipconfig/all on his just to check the numbers are the same.

    It's not a problem in Vista, because everything worked fine with the old router.

    Also uPnP is activated according to the router config, and Network Discovery is activated in Vista.

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  • Dr SnofeldDr Snofeld Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Got the static IP thing sorted. Turns out the DCHP range is pretty huge, like 9-200. So set the last digit to 7 and everything's working fine there. Forwarded the ports, following this guide, but Steam still won't connect. Restarted the router, didn't help. Is there something I'm missing?

    It's not just Steam, either. MapTool won't connect, so I missed my D&D game. I assume a bunch of my games won't connect either.

    EDIT: Wait, duh, the guide gives the wrong UDP ports, when you check it against Steam's support pages. Lemme sort that and get back to you guys.

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  • Dr SnofeldDr Snofeld Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Waaargarhbl.

    Ports forwarded, IP static, still nothing.

    Is there any setting on the router that could be causing these problems?

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  • KrikeeKrikee Registered User
    edited October 2008
    What kind of router are you using and why it connected to both the switch and a computer? And FYI, you shouldn't have to make any changes on your router to have steam work. At most you would have to make a client port change on each individual computer using Steam simultaneously.

  • Dr SnofeldDr Snofeld Registered User
    edited October 2008
    It's an Inventel Livebox. Actually a wireless router, but because of real thick walls and the amount I paid for HomePlugs to get net access in my room, we can't use the wireless. But there's only two network ports on the router for wired connections. And changing routers isn't an option, because then we wouldn't get free phone calls which was half the reason for switching to Orange anyway.

    The reason that there's one PC attached to the router, and I'll stress at this point that it isn't me making any of the networking decisions in my house, is because my stepdad apparently wants his PC to be the "control" PC for the router. Even though the config is all done through a browser. Seriously, I wanted to try something else for the port things, and instead of just typing the password in on my PC, he proceeded to switch on his one to do it from there. Even though it would make no difference. Maybe he didn't want to go up stairs?

    Anyway he works offshore and leaves for two weeks tomorrow, and if I try and change anything I'll get grief, for no reason.

    Do you think that having that one PC not attached to the switch might have anything to do with it?

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  • KrikeeKrikee Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Have you tried using Steam without port forwarding?

  • Dr SnofeldDr Snofeld Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Krikee wrote: »
    Have you tried using Steam without port forwarding?

    You mean with a static IP but without port forwarding?

    Cos I tried it before I did any of this right after getting the router, and it didn't do a thing.

    EDIT: I tried to connect to a D&D game using MapTool, but it didn't connect. So this isn't just a Steam thing. Just that Steam was the only thing I'd used that was affected at the time.

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  • KrikeeKrikee Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Dr Snofeld wrote: »
    Krikee wrote: »
    Have you tried using Steam without port forwarding?

    You mean with a static IP but without port forwarding?

    Cos I tried it before I did any of this right after getting the router, and it didn't do a thing.

    EDIT: I tried to connect to a D&D game using MapTool, but it didn't connect. So this isn't just a Steam thing. Just that Steam was the only thing I'd used that was affected at the time.
    Not even with static IP addresses but yes, without forwarding. This makes me question exactly what that box is that you have as a router; I'll read a little bit about it and see if I can find anything obvious. I use DHCP, no port forwading & no UPnP and Steam works fine with multiple users. :|

  • Dr SnofeldDr Snofeld Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Krikee wrote: »
    Dr Snofeld wrote: »
    Krikee wrote: »
    Have you tried using Steam without port forwarding?

    You mean with a static IP but without port forwarding?

    Cos I tried it before I did any of this right after getting the router, and it didn't do a thing.

    EDIT: I tried to connect to a D&D game using MapTool, but it didn't connect. So this isn't just a Steam thing. Just that Steam was the only thing I'd used that was affected at the time.
    Not even with static IP addresses but yes, without forwarding. This makes me question exactly what that box is that you have as a router; I'll read a little bit about it and see if I can find anything obvious. I use DHCP, no port forwading & no UPnP and Steam works fine with multiple users. :|

    It's not even multiple users. I'm the only one in my house with Steam.

    It's really weird.

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  • zanetheinsanezanetheinsane Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Is your network switch a 5(4+1)-port or 9(8+1)-port switch? Basically one port will be an "Uplink" port shared with a normal port (usually port 4 or 8). If this is the case, despite common sense, plug the ethernet cable from the router into one of the normal ports, not the uplink port.

    I had a small Linksys 4+1-port switch a long time ago that worked like that. Uplink ports are basically "built-in" crossover cables, so you could crossover without a crossover cable.

    Example (it's a Netgear but basically the same thing):
    Spoiler:

    I looked up the ports on your crazy French router, and technically you should be fine plugging a computer directly into one and a switch into the second one.

  • Dr SnofeldDr Snofeld Registered User
    edited November 2008
    Is your network switch a 5(4+1)-port or 9(8+1)-port switch? Basically one port will be an "Uplink" port shared with a normal port (usually port 4 or 8). If this is the case, despite common sense, plug the ethernet cable from the router into one of the normal ports, not the uplink port.

    I had a small Linksys 4+1-port switch a long time ago that worked like that. Uplink ports are basically "built-in" crossover cables, so you could crossover without a crossover cable.

    Example (it's a Netgear but basically the same thing):
    Spoiler:

    I looked up the ports on your crazy French router, and technically you should be fine plugging a computer directly into one and a switch into the second one.

    It's a 5-port. A Belkin something-or-other. I'll see if I can find the box to tell if something's in an Uplink port.

    ...and now I want to play Uplink. Damn. Excellent game though.

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  • Dr SnofeldDr Snofeld Registered User
    edited November 2008
    Sorry to bump, but I'm really getting annoyed with this problem. Can't get irc to work either.

    Can someone post the ports they forwarded for Steam so I can check I got em right?

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  • mrbernzmrbernz Registered User
    edited November 2008
    Is the firewall on or off on your computer?

  • Dr SnofeldDr Snofeld Registered User
    edited November 2008
    mrbernz wrote: »
    Is the firewall on or off on your computer?

    Windows Firewall or whatever is on, but it's definately not that, cos everything worked perfectly with the old router, albeit kinda slowly. And I haven't made any software changes. So it's either the router, the switch, or the ISP, and I can't imagine how the latter would cause this problem.

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  • mrbernzmrbernz Registered User
    edited November 2008
    Can you screen shot the port forwarding page of your router?

  • Dr SnofeldDr Snofeld Registered User
    edited November 2008
    mrbernz wrote: »
    Can you screen shot the port forwarding page of your router?

    Not right now, cos my stepdad is the only one with the router password and he's offshore until Wednesday.

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  • mrbernzmrbernz Registered User
    edited November 2008
    Guess your stuck until Weds. Makes it hard to troubleshoot if you don't have access to the router.

  • Dr SnofeldDr Snofeld Registered User
    edited November 2008
    mrbernz wrote: »
    Guess your stuck until Weds. Makes it hard to troubleshoot if you don't have access to the router.

    Yeah, he's a bit of a dick to me a lot of the time. Which is why I don't have the password myself. But that's besides the point.

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  • mrbernzmrbernz Registered User
    edited November 2008
    You could always reset it...

  • Dr SnofeldDr Snofeld Registered User
    edited November 2008
    mrbernz wrote: »
    You could always reset it...

    Yes, but he'd know, you see. And then I'd be in the shit.

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  • Dr SnofeldDr Snofeld Registered User
    edited December 2008
    Apologies for bumping my ancient thread but this problem is really agrivating, although with uni work I've not had time to consider it.

    The problem isn't just with Steam, though. Other games can't connect, Red Alert 3 for example. Spore works fine, presumably because it's just downloading things. I can't send webcam footage over MSN even though MSN itself works fine.

    Now I have no networking knowledge whatsoever, so correct me if I'm way off track, but my guess is that it's certain outgoing signals from my PC that are being blocked somehow.

    Also the Steam support page said that the services Dynamic Packet Filtering and Stateful Inspection might cause problems and I should try turning them off. Would that be a bad thing, since they're security protocols of some kind? Considering my stepdad won't let me do this if it may be construed as unsafe for the network...

    EDIT: Is it possible that Orange is blocking the relevant data somehow?

    EDIT EDIT: Also uPnP is on, as well as the Steam client ports being forwarded.

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