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Public funding and university policies...[specifically, BYU]
mcdermott
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So, apparently the guy who put out a hawt calendar of topless Mormon missionaries has had his degree yanked.
The university says they were unaware of his being excommunicated by the LDS church at the time he graduated, so they've put a non-academic hold on his record and basically nullified his degree even though he had completed all necessary credits.
The question I have, is whether this is even legal? Should it be?
On the one hand, it is a private school. As such, they are allowed a fairly wide latitude on their policies (in particular, their requirements for student behavior both on and off campus). I get that. It's not like I'm planning on going to BYU or anything.
On the other hand, they do receive (indirectly) public funding. Students at BYU are just as eligible for Pell Grants as I am, and I was always under the impression that this imposed at least some burden on the school to meet certain federal standards. The ADA comes to mind, and for some reason I thought discriminating based on race or religion was another. I know, for instance, you don't have to be a Mormon to attend BYU...you merely have to adhere to their standards regardless.
But, since they've basically said that his degree will no longer be valid unless he gets back in good standing with the LDS church, isn't this basically placing a specific religious requirement on him for graduation? Should this school then still be eligible for public funding (in the form of financial aid for students)?
I just can't help but think that the LDS Church and BYU may have crossed an actual line here.
EDIT: Note that, in this case, I think it might actually be more acceptable (legally) for them to simply yank his degree with no recourse for breaking the honor code. I get that, though obviously it would still be fucked up morally. But legally it seems like placing a hold due to an excommunication then placing a requirement that he be returned to good standing with the church (a specific church no less, at least from what I read in the linked article and elsewhere) seems pretty fishy. It's that fact that they're willing to reinstate it, and the criteria being placed on that, that I think crosses the line. Not the suspension of the degree alone. Because he did break an honor code that he agreed to as a condition of attendance in good standing.
The university says they were unaware of his being excommunicated by the LDS church at the time he graduated, so they've put a non-academic hold on his record and basically nullified his degree even though he had completed all necessary credits.
The question I have, is whether this is even legal? Should it be?
On the one hand, it is a private school. As such, they are allowed a fairly wide latitude on their policies (in particular, their requirements for student behavior both on and off campus). I get that. It's not like I'm planning on going to BYU or anything.
On the other hand, they do receive (indirectly) public funding. Students at BYU are just as eligible for Pell Grants as I am, and I was always under the impression that this imposed at least some burden on the school to meet certain federal standards. The ADA comes to mind, and for some reason I thought discriminating based on race or religion was another. I know, for instance, you don't have to be a Mormon to attend BYU...you merely have to adhere to their standards regardless.
But, since they've basically said that his degree will no longer be valid unless he gets back in good standing with the LDS church, isn't this basically placing a specific religious requirement on him for graduation? Should this school then still be eligible for public funding (in the form of financial aid for students)?
I just can't help but think that the LDS Church and BYU may have crossed an actual line here.
EDIT: Note that, in this case, I think it might actually be more acceptable (legally) for them to simply yank his degree with no recourse for breaking the honor code. I get that, though obviously it would still be fucked up morally. But legally it seems like placing a hold due to an excommunication then placing a requirement that he be returned to good standing with the church (a specific church no less, at least from what I read in the linked article and elsewhere) seems pretty fishy. It's that fact that they're willing to reinstate it, and the criteria being placed on that, that I think crosses the line. Not the suspension of the degree alone. Because he did break an honor code that he agreed to as a condition of attendance in good standing.
mcdermott on
Posts
No.
I do believe you have to be a member in good standing of some church, or at least that it's factored into admissions...not sure if it's a requirement. But being LDS specifically is not required...I'd wager it's at least partly because they can't require it and still draw public funding (as in, allow their students to get financial aid). I mentioned this in the OP.
Well, I think they had grounds to suspend or expel him under the student code. It specifically forbids shit like making the calender (I think under general "indecent behavior"). And if by some chance they didn't, they should have just let it go.
I'm really hoping this guy lawyers up, because like I said I can't see any way in which this is legal.
EDIT: This is why I think a lot of private universities are scared to death of homosexuals ever getting specific legal protections as well...because it would make it a lot harder to enforce some of their anti-gay policies without losing this same access to federal financial aid.
Kind of, actually.
You don't have to be LDS, however you must be Christian and you must conform to a standard of conduct that is essentially the same as being a Mormon (no drinking, no sex, etc). The student in question clearly violated a very explicit part of a private university's code of conduct.
This is just like the LDS's usual modus operandi, though. Enforce a strict - nearly impossibly strict - code of behavior, then eject people from the church when they violate a rule, preferably keeping their money and/or house when you do. And, yes, it is very clearly religious discrimination; but this instance is just one example of a long-running history of greed and corruption with the LDS church.
Wasn't aware that they specifically require you be some form of Christian. Makes sense, I guess, but then again I'm wondering how the fuck they get away with that. As for the standard of conduct, oddly that doesn't bother me. Yes, the standard is religiously based. But it's still not the same as actually requiring you to be a member of a given religion...I can choose to forgo alcohol and sex and still never accept the Mormon faith. A private school can require its students to sing "Eye of the Tiger" every morning when they get out of bed for all I care...it's silly, but it's a private institution.
The only real issue I have with their code of conduct regards not being able to make any positive statements about homosexuality, but that's more a failing of the government in not extending protection to that class...unfortunately that's how the law works, and as it is gays are (sadly) not a protected class.
I guess to me requiring a Mormon standard of conduct falls just barely on the right side of the line, whereas requiring somebody to be Mormon (or Christian...again, I don't know how they get away with that) does not.
What they do need is a ecclesiastical endorsement.
It's my understanding that all prospective students must agree to uphold the values of the gospels of Jesus Christ. Am I misinformed?
They have to abide by the school's code of conduct, which includes some issues such as the word of wisdom or law of chasity; as well as take a religion class. But they are not forced to comply to any religious beliefs or values outside of the code of conduct. Trust me, we taught Athiest there, its strict, but not THAT strict.