Age of consent, mothers, and police help. [Solved-ish]

2 Marcus 2 Ravens

I am recently eighteen years old, and up until today have been dating someone who is turning fifteen in eight days. We had been together for several months, and friends for a long time before then. The girl's mother somehow found out that we had been sexually active, and got into an argument with her. Her mother threatened to call the police on me, and in order to save me from getting into legal trouble, and herself getting in more trouble at home, the relationship has ended. Except, I don't think we did anything illegal.

In Canada (which is where we're from), if someone is aged fourteen or fifteen they're aloud to have sexual intercourse (save anal, and no, that didn't happen) with someone no more than five years older than themselves. I fit into that bracket, and so we should be ok.

Now for the question: Can her mother legally do anything about this? There are a few exceptions to the consent rule that says we haven't legally done anything wrong, but we don't fall into any of those situations. But, since this girl is a minor, could her mother maybe get a restraining order or something? Legally we're aloud to have sex, but, is there anything else her mother could legally do about this?

I know this is kind of an awkward situation, and people might look down on me for it, but I seriously need help.

Thank you.

Infidel

You're right, it's not a legal issue. But expect the mother to make things impossible regardless.

Assuming that the girl lives with her mom, you're pretty much at her mercy I think. I wouldn't advocate trying to get her to run from home, since then you'll be one of those stories in the paper.

Erios

Well, the answer is likely no, at least not through the channels of statutory rape laws. She might be able to take a restraining order on you (at least in the US), but would both need a reason and have that reason be somewhat true. Unfortunately, this may come down to how much of a spine your girlfriend has. If anything comes to a direct legal challenge a la a restraining order, your gf is a neutral party that could have the motion dismissed or not, based on the truth of the claims.

So basically, not much save for lying to the court system. I don't know how things are in the frozen north, but I doubt they encourage lying to the justice system.

And god, I hate to do this, but it's "allowed."

Willeth

According to Wikipedia's entry on age of consent (so take this with as much salt as necessary), you are within legal boundaries - what you say about a fourteen/fifteen year-old being able to consent with anyone up to five years their senior is correct.

Restraining orders I have even less knowledge of, but I imagine that there is no ground for it at all if you are not doing anything illegal. Her mother might not like you being together but until she can provide a reasonable grounding for a restraining order nothing will happen. If you're her babysitter or something then you will be on much shakier ground, as the five-year exemption does not apply if the older partner is in a position of trust.

However, she is fourteen. Her mother does have control of what her daughter does to a certain extent and you need to respect that. You did the right thing by breaking it off once you found out she had a problem IMO.

DeShadowC

Willeth wrote: »

However, she is fourteen. Her mother does have control of what her daughter does to a certain extent and you need to respect that.

To the point that her mother can refuse to let her daughter see you for the next three years.

2 Marcus 2 Ravens

Thanks for the advice. I've never baby sat her or anything. One time there was a party we were both going to and her mom told me to make sure she didn't drink. I doubt that really counts, though.

For now things are done, but we're going to talk about it and see what's what. I'm expecting things to be over with, but as of now, she still thinks we're in the legal wrong. This might change things, but her mom will still have a lot of control. A relationship with someone I'm never aloud to see is pretty pointless.

It looks like there's still going to be some shitty times ahead, but this has helped quite a bit. Unless someone has something new to add, I guess this is solved.

Thanks again.

Willeth

If you have to argue with someone that 'no, actually, what I'm doing with your daughter is all perfectly legal, look, we fit nicely into this set of exceptions' then you're probably not going to get anywhere, to be honest.

2 Marcus 2 Ravens

Willeth wrote: »

If you have to argue with someone that 'no, actually, what I'm doing with your daughter is all perfectly legal, look, we fit nicely into this set of exceptions' then you're probably not going to get anywhere, to be honest.

It's unfortunate, but that's pretty much how I see it. Their family is pretty disfunctional as it is, and a daughter (one of EIGHT kids) sneaking off with a guy she can technically have sex with isn't something they need to add to their list of problems.

I've been a friend of the family for a long time, her older brother is the drummer in my band, and up until now I've always gotten along really well with her mother, which just makes this harder. She's a great girl who has her share of problems, but it's looking like I've become one myself, instead of someone who can help her solve them.

Now I'm debating talking to her mother. If I can't date her daughter, I'm still very good friends with three of her kids, and don't want her to try and mess that up as well. But that's maybe not a good idea..

Infidel

If you guys are serious about each other and need to keep together, you are probably looking at waiting out those three years until her mother cannot be the ultimate rule anymore. Whether she is fine with you then or not doesn't matter, it's up to her daughter at that point to make that choice.

If the mother brings it up or keeps pushing the law, I'd set her straight on it. But don't bother aggravating things with her if it's not necessary, if you get together later you'll want to not do extra damage with the mother.

Grid System

The relevant parts of the Criminal Code of Canada are s. 151 and s. 150.1(2.1a). They read as follows:

s. 151 wrote:

Every person who, for a sexual purpose, touches, directly or indirectly, with a part of the body or with an object, any part of the body of a person under the age of 16 years

(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of forty-five days; or

(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding eighteen months and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of fourteen days.

s. 150.1(2.1a) wrote:

When an accused is charged with an offence under section 151 or 152, subsection 173(2) or section 271 in respect of a complainant who is 14 years of age or more but under the age of 16 years, it is a defence that the complainant consented to the activity that forms the subject-matter of the charge if

(a) the accused

(i) is less than five years older than the complainant; and

(ii) is not in a position of trust or authority towards the complainant, is not a person with whom the complainant is in a relationship of dependency and is not in a relationship with the complainant that is exploitative of the complainant;

Iceman.USAF

I have to ask, what does the brother think of you dating his little sister?

If you're seriously trying to 'convince' the mother that might be a good route to take.

Then again, I don't condone any of this. At all. Even a little. That's just me.

2 Marcus 2 Ravens

Iceman.USAF wrote: »

I have to ask, what does the brother think of you dating his little sister?

If you're seriously trying to 'convince' the mother that might be a good route to take.

Then again, I don't condone any of this. At all. Even a little. That's just me.

The brother is fine with it. Everyone in the family is fine with it. The mother was, but..well that obviously changed. Everyone pretty much saw it coming.

And I don't see how a three year gap (I just turned eighteen, and she's just turning fifteen) is that big of a deal. It's not illegal, and it's not like I'm in it for the sex. We've known each other for a long time and we go to the same high school. But that's not the point of this thread, and to debate the ethics of the situation might be more appropriate in a place like Debate and Discourse.

Inquisitor77

Legally, it sounds like you're fine. But if you want to be certain I'm sure there are plenty of health clinics, youth hotlines, etc. that may be able to give you a more definitive answer than a bunch of guys on an internet message board.

Regarding the other stuff: As with any serious relationship, winning over the person is only half the battle. If they are close to their family and have their own circle of friends, you will need to win those people over, too. You don't have to be best friends with all of them and make them fall in love with you, but you do need to at least pass a certain acceptability threshold. Her mother's opinion of you matters because it has a significant impact on their relationship itself.

In this case, even though the girl obviously is willing to be in a relationship (sexual or otherwise) with you, if you are serious about this relationship, you need to "woo" her mother, too. Part of the problem here is that her mother obviously does not approve of her having any type of sexual relationship, and she is probably also feeling hurt because she was not informed of it directly by either of you. Instead, she found out through other means. This means you and your girlfriend will need to work to regain her mother's trust.

I'm not saying that you should bend over backwards and do everything she says just to make her happy. But what you will have to do is make a significant effort with her and visibly demonstrate that you care about her opinion, you want to make things better, and at the very least you don't want to strain the relationship between her and her daughter (and her and you, for that matter).

Whether or not you want to put the option of "no more sex" on the table is entirely up to you, but needless to say it is probably an unrealistic expectation on the mother's part, no matter how badly she should want it. Just treat the situation carefully and tactfully. Be wary that you are really teetering on the edge of two extremes, in her view. Unless you make it clear to her that you are trying to be a good guy in this situation, everything else will be construed as you being a douchebag, telling her to suck it up, and screaming to her face that you'll fuck her daughter whenever the hell you want. That may not be what you're actually doing, but that's probably how it will be construed.

I cannot stress how unbelievably sensitive this situation is, not only because of the age of her daughter and the nature of mother/daughter relationships, but how she found out about the two of you having sex.


Anyway, long story short:

1) Use condoms.

2) Talk to her mother, express that you care about her opinion, and try to be as calm and collected as possible the entire time

3) Perhaps leverage other family members to talk to her mother directly (not necessary "intercede", but just try to provide a, "Hey it could be worse, the guy isn't a total asshole" perspective in random conversation)

4) Perform explicit actions that make it abundantly clear you really are trying and you want to regain her trust and mend the relationship

5) If, over the period of several months (this ain't gonna be a two-day affair), you have been trying your best and nothing is coming of it, just back off and try to be as "out of sight" and "neutral" as possible - either she'll come around eventually or she won't

6) Under no circumstances should you ever, ever play the, "Well you can't control us so we'll do whatever we want" card. EVER. If it gets to that point, walk the hell away before you say something you can't take back.

7) Use a condom. Seriously.

2 Marcus 2 Ravens

Thanks for such a thorough response, Inquisitor77. It was definitely helpful, and I agree with your advice. I think I'm as prepared for all of this as I'll ever be.

I'm guessing this one is about as solved as it's going to get, so thanks again to everyone.

Hobbit0815

Just hopping in with my opinion, there is nothing wrong with a three year difference.. it's just sad that when the first person turns the legal age there's one left behind for a while, then it turns up noses all of a sudden. There's a 3 year diff between me and my husband, and we had a tough time around this age as well. If you really want to be with her, you need to talk to her mom about it, but not in the 'it's legal, so HAHA' kind of way. You obviously want to keep a good standing with her whole family anyway it seems.

Good luck!

JediNight

That sort of issue where one partner turns 18, but the other one isn't always ends up on shaky grounds. Society tends to make a big deal out of a 3 year gap until both partners are in their 20s IMHO, then the age gap that people care about widens dramatically.

If you have been a friend of the family for a long time, then I would just set it aside for now. It's not worth losing that overall friendship for this issue atm. If her mother will still listen to you and you feel up to it, I would actually talk to her in private and tell her flat out that your friendship with her and the family means more to you than damaging your ties to their family. That may even impress her and improve yourself in her eyes that you are mature about it. Hopefully she will still let you be friends with her and doesn't think you will fool around behind her back or something.

If you are both serious about it, stay good friends then and when she turns 18 you can hit it off again.

Hypatia

I just wanted to point something out because it doesn't seem like anyone has yet:

We had been together for several months, and friends for a long time before then.

I can see a potential problem here if you were friends before she was 14. Even if you weren't having sexual relations with her until it was technically legal, the mother could be viewing it with the suspicion that you were doing things with her when she was 13 or younger. If that's the case then if I'm reading this right she could try to get you into court for it.

If her mom tries to say that you were doing this stuff before she turned 14, you could have a problem. Particularly if your girlfriend isn't willing to take a stand for you.