Legend of the Seeker: Look upon me book continuity, and despair.

Mr. Henry Bemis

i know i hate moral clarity

The Raging Platypus

I remember this singular moment a few years back.

I had a friend who listed Fountainhead as one of her favorite books, so I decided to subject myself to some Ayn Rand and see what it was all about.

As I scanned through chapter after chapter, I couldn't shake the feeling that I'd somehow read this book before......

and then it hit me


Fuck yoooooou terry goodkind you unoriginal twat

Bogart

I've read both those excerpts several times before, but each time I come across them new infelicities and mallet-headed stupidities make themselves known. It's terrible writing. Without even looking at the repugnant moral philosophy that underpins it, it's obviously just objectively bad writing.

Bloods End

The Raging Platypus wrote: »

I remember this singular moment a few years back.

I had a friend who listed Fountainhead as one of her favorite books, so I decided to subject myself to some Ayn Rand and see what it was all about.

As I scanned through chapter after chapter, I couldn't shake the feeling that I'd somehow read this book before......

and then it hit me


Fuck yoooooou terry goodkind you unoriginal twat

Ayn Rand had some good ideas and some original ideas.

Unfortunately her good ideas weren't original and her original ideas weren't very good.

Nightslyr

Hey, can someone post the link to that site with all of the awesome SoT quotes? I feel like laughing this morning.

CJTheran

Are these books good reading due to the terribad hilarity of them, or are they too painful for that? I mean, that chicken shit is gold.

Bogart

They always appeared to be about a thousand pages long each, so I'm guessing that occasional hilarity isn't enough of a reason to spends the days necessary to dredge through them. Find extracts of the best bits instead.

Nightslyr

CJTheran wrote: »

Are these books good reading due to the terribad hilarity of them, or are they too painful for that? I mean, that chicken shit is gold.

I only read two and a half books of the series, but I found them to be pretty painful overall. Goodkind has some odd ideas about good and evil, and the power (and uses) of sex, to say nothing about the way in which he views hate as a useful tool. Torture of the S&M variety was also a big component in the first few books.

One of the things that really stood out to me was how emotional Goodkind tried to make the story. It's very melodramatic and incredibly depressing. There's very little joy or humor (at least, intentional humor) in these books. Instead, the story tends to focus on the characters pining for one another and turning their grief into righteous anger and hate in order to smite their foes.

Goodkind also isn't a very original author. Book 2, in particular, read like an abridged version of Jordan's Wheel of Time series. Change a few of the names, and a lot of the plot elements read like they were outright plagiarized.

Fencingsax

Gods, I can't even get through either of those passages before my brain automatically stops reading in self-defense/preservation.

GungHo

CJTheran wrote: »

Are these books good reading due to the terribad hilarity of them, or are they too painful for that? I mean, that chicken shit is gold.

Don't pay good money for it if you're going to give up the time to read through the shit. Go to the library or something. Of course, there are other, more enjoyable things you could do with your time... such as teabagging a drawer and slamming the drawer shut.

GoodKingJayIII

Mr. Henry Bemis wrote: »

Terry Fucking Goodkind wrote:

Hissing, hackles lifting, the chicken's head rose.

Kahlan pulled back.

Its claws digging into stiff dead flesh, the chicken slowly turned to face her. It cocked its head, making its comb flop, its wattles sway.

"Shoo," Kahlan heard herself whisper.

There wasn't enough light, and besides, the side of its beak was covered with gore, so she couldn't tell if it had the dark spot. But she didn't need to see it.

"Dear spirits, help me," she prayed under her breath.

The bird let out a slow chicken cackle. It sounded like a chicken, but in her heart she knew it wasn't. In that instant, she completely understood the concept of a chicken that was not a chicken. This looked like a chicken, like most of the Mud People's chickens. But this was no chicken.

This was evil manifest.

Oh my god. Which book is this? I hope it was after I stopped reading, I'd expect myself to remember something this ridiculous.

iguanacus

Definitely after the 3rd book.

Evil Multifarious

Rolo wrote: »

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

I loved the books, to me Terry Goodkind is a fucking literary master. That being said, i discovered that he was the one who had the final say on how the show was written. This really shocked me. Why would he do something like this to his own work? I would've rather not associated myself with the project at all and let the whole thing go under without my name being attached to it rather than be associated with . . . this.

Terry Goodkind wrote:

They raced out from the long shadows of the buildings and poured around the corner. The people off at the end of the street all turned when they spotted Richard's force coming. More people--men and women from the city--surged into the street in front of the compound of buildings the soldiers had taken oup as barracks and a command post. The people looked like a scraggly lot.

"No war! No war! No war!" the people shouted as Richard led the men up the street at a dead run.
"Out of the way!" Richard yelled as he closed the distance. This was no time for subtlety or discussions: the success of their attack depended in large part on speed. "Get out of the way! This is your only warning! Get out of the way or die!"
"Stop the hate! Stop the hate!" the people chanted as they locked arms.
They had no idea how much hate was raging through Richard. He drew the Sword of Truth. The wrath of its magic didn't come out with it, but he had enough of his own. He slowed to a trot.
"Move!" Richard called as he bore down on the people.
A plump, curly-haired woman took a step out from the others. Her round face was red with anger as she screamed. "Stop the hate! No war! Stop the hate! No war!"
"Move or die!" Richard yelled as he picked up speed.
The red-faced woman shook her fleshy fist at Richard and his men, leading an angry chant. "Murderers! Murderers! Murderers!"
On his way past her, gritting his teeth as he screamed with the fury of the attack begun, Richard took a powerful swing, lopping off the woman's head and upraised arm. Strings of blood and gore splashed across the faces behind her even as some still chanted their empty words. The head and loose arm tumbled through the crowd. A man mad the mistake of reaching for Richard's weapon, and took the full weight of a charging thrust.
Men behind Richard hit the line of evil's guardians with unrestrained violence. People armed only with their hatred for moral clarity fell bloodied, terribly injured, and dead. The line of people collapsed before the merciless charge. Some of the people, screaming their contempt, used their fists to attack Richard's men. They were met with swift and deadly steel.
At the realization that their defense of the Imperial Order's brutality would actually result in consequences to themselves, the crowd began scattering in fright, screaming curses back at Richard and his men.

The sheer unbridled idiocy of this is only matched by the its moral bankruptcy, complete lack of insight, and misguided, deluded self-righteousness.

He is rationalizing and playing out a fantasy of killing anti-war protesters.

Terry Goodkind is a disgusting human being.

projectmayhem

I have to read the book that chicken part is from. I could not stop laughing.

These...these are not supposed to be serious I hope?

Jragghen

projectmayhem wrote: »

I have to read the book that chicken part is from. I could not stop laughing.

These...these are not supposed to be serious I hope?

Yes, yes they are.

But what do you expect from a guy who looks like this?

projectmayhem

Jragghen wrote: »

projectmayhem wrote: »

I have to read the book that chicken part is from. I could not stop laughing.

These...these are not supposed to be serious I hope?

Yes, yes they are.

But what do you expect from a guy who looks like this?

I want to hit him right in the teeth.

GungHo

Evil Multifarious wrote: »

The sheer unbridled idiocy of this is only matched by the its moral bankruptcy, complete lack of insight, and misguided, deluded self-righteousness.

He is rationalizing and playing out a fantasy of killing anti-war protesters.

Terry Goodkind is a disgusting human being.

Can't make an omlette without bombing a few hospitals.

Shadowen

projectmayhem wrote: »

Jragghen wrote: »

projectmayhem wrote: »

I have to read the book that chicken part is from. I could not stop laughing.

These...these are not supposed to be serious I hope?

Yes, yes they are.

But what do you expect from a guy who looks like this?

I want to hit him right in the teeth.

Hey, I look like that.

Except fatter, shaggier, and jollier. I could be a young Santa, if Santa had a yeard like that. What could he be? Judging by the expression and the shirt, just some wannabe biker who hangs around at the bar. Except he's not looking to pick fights, he's looking to lecture people on their lack of moral clarity.

Balefuego

This thread has been saved


although not by stone carving

A Dabble Of Thelonius

By moral clarity?

Ranx

it has been saved from a lack of moral clarity

Witch_Hunter_84

Evil Multifarious wrote: »

Rolo wrote: »

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

I loved the books, to me Terry Goodkind is a fucking literary master. That being said, i discovered that he was the one who had the final say on how the show was written. This really shocked me. Why would he do something like this to his own work? I would've rather not associated myself with the project at all and let the whole thing go under without my name being attached to it rather than be associated with . . . this.

Terry Goodkind wrote:

They raced out from the long shadows of the buildings and poured around the corner. The people off at the end of the street all turned when they spotted Richard's force coming. More people--men and women from the city--surged into the street in front of the compound of buildings the soldiers had taken oup as barracks and a command post. The people looked like a scraggly lot.

"No war! No war! No war!" the people shouted as Richard led the men up the street at a dead run.
"Out of the way!" Richard yelled as he closed the distance. This was no time for subtlety or discussions: the success of their attack depended in large part on speed. "Get out of the way! This is your only warning! Get out of the way or die!"
"Stop the hate! Stop the hate!" the people chanted as they locked arms.
They had no idea how much hate was raging through Richard. He drew the Sword of Truth. The wrath of its magic didn't come out with it, but he had enough of his own. He slowed to a trot.
"Move!" Richard called as he bore down on the people.
A plump, curly-haired woman took a step out from the others. Her round face was red with anger as she screamed. "Stop the hate! No war! Stop the hate! No war!"
"Move or die!" Richard yelled as he picked up speed.
The red-faced woman shook her fleshy fist at Richard and his men, leading an angry chant. "Murderers! Murderers! Murderers!"
On his way past her, gritting his teeth as he screamed with the fury of the attack begun, Richard took a powerful swing, lopping off the woman's head and upraised arm. Strings of blood and gore splashed across the faces behind her even as some still chanted their empty words. The head and loose arm tumbled through the crowd. A man mad the mistake of reaching for Richard's weapon, and took the full weight of a charging thrust.
Men behind Richard hit the line of evil's guardians with unrestrained violence. People armed only with their hatred for moral clarity fell bloodied, terribly injured, and dead. The line of people collapsed before the merciless charge. Some of the people, screaming their contempt, used their fists to attack Richard's men. They were met with swift and deadly steel.
At the realization that their defense of the Imperial Order's brutality would actually result in consequences to themselves, the crowd began scattering in fright, screaming curses back at Richard and his men.

The sheer unbridled idiocy of this is only matched by the its moral bankruptcy, complete lack of insight, and misguided, deluded self-righteousness.

He is rationalizing and playing out a fantasy of killing anti-war protesters.

Terry Goodkind is a disgusting human being.

First and foremost, they weren't war protesters, they were acting as human shields in defense of an army of brutish rapists. Terry Goodkind wasn't living out some fantasy where he could just go on a hippie killing spree (although that does just sound wonderful), he was talking about how those who use innocence and naivate as a shield because they don't think killing is justified in any manner (even in defense), better fucking grow up because these people aren't gonna play by your rules.

It would be like a group of Jews forming a human barrier in order to protect a group of SS stormtroopers from being gunned down by a platoon of allied soldiers.

Mai-Kero

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

Evil Multifarious wrote: »

Rolo wrote: »

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

I loved the books, to me Terry Goodkind is a fucking literary master. That being said, i discovered that he was the one who had the final say on how the show was written. This really shocked me. Why would he do something like this to his own work? I would've rather not associated myself with the project at all and let the whole thing go under without my name being attached to it rather than be associated with . . . this.

Terry Goodkind wrote:

They raced out from the long shadows of the buildings and poured around the corner. The people off at the end of the street all turned when they spotted Richard's force coming. More people--men and women from the city--surged into the street in front of the compound of buildings the soldiers had taken oup as barracks and a command post. The people looked like a scraggly lot.

"No war! No war! No war!" the people shouted as Richard led the men up the street at a dead run.
"Out of the way!" Richard yelled as he closed the distance. This was no time for subtlety or discussions: the success of their attack depended in large part on speed. "Get out of the way! This is your only warning! Get out of the way or die!"
"Stop the hate! Stop the hate!" the people chanted as they locked arms.
They had no idea how much hate was raging through Richard. He drew the Sword of Truth. The wrath of its magic didn't come out with it, but he had enough of his own. He slowed to a trot.
"Move!" Richard called as he bore down on the people.
A plump, curly-haired woman took a step out from the others. Her round face was red with anger as she screamed. "Stop the hate! No war! Stop the hate! No war!"
"Move or die!" Richard yelled as he picked up speed.
The red-faced woman shook her fleshy fist at Richard and his men, leading an angry chant. "Murderers! Murderers! Murderers!"
On his way past her, gritting his teeth as he screamed with the fury of the attack begun, Richard took a powerful swing, lopping off the woman's head and upraised arm. Strings of blood and gore splashed across the faces behind her even as some still chanted their empty words. The head and loose arm tumbled through the crowd. A man mad the mistake of reaching for Richard's weapon, and took the full weight of a charging thrust.
Men behind Richard hit the line of evil's guardians with unrestrained violence. People armed only with their hatred for moral clarity fell bloodied, terribly injured, and dead. The line of people collapsed before the merciless charge. Some of the people, screaming their contempt, used their fists to attack Richard's men. They were met with swift and deadly steel.
At the realization that their defense of the Imperial Order's brutality would actually result in consequences to themselves, the crowd began scattering in fright, screaming curses back at Richard and his men.

The sheer unbridled idiocy of this is only matched by the its moral bankruptcy, complete lack of insight, and misguided, deluded self-righteousness.

He is rationalizing and playing out a fantasy of killing anti-war protesters.

Terry Goodkind is a disgusting human being.

First and foremost, they weren't war protesters, they were acting as human shields in defense of an army of brutish rapists. Terry Goodkind wasn't living out some fantasy where he could just go on a hippie killing spree (although that does just sound wonderful), he was talking about how those who use innocence and naivate as a shield because they don't think killing is justified in any manner (even in defense), better fucking grow up because these people aren't gonna play by your rules.

It would be like a group of Jews forming a human barrier in order to protect a group of SS stormtroopers from being gunned down by a platoon of allied soldiers.

You're essentially the worst person I've ever seen write something on the internet.

Randall_Flagg

and then the allied soldiers kill all of the jews

Witch_Hunter_84

Randall_Flagg wrote: »

and then the allied soldiers kill all of the jews

Well, the nazis would have no problem shooting though the misguided Jews to kill the allies. What would you do pray tell?

You're essentially the worst person I've ever seen write something on the internet.

That's a really stupid thing to say and you should refrain from commenting unless you have some piece of empirical or constructive insight on what I'm saying.

The Raging Platypus

Oh my.

This is definitely something new.

captaink

This is a good blog post summing up the high (low?) points of the Sword of Truth series:

http://sandstormreviews.blogspot.com/2006/08/goodkind-parodies.html#rr

Witch_Hunter_84

meh, not really. Okay, no more flaming people, lets try and get the topic back on track to the show.

Echo

Kahlan's half-sister, the Queen of Galea, has a breakdown (following a gratuitous gang-rape) and temporarily hands over the queenship to Kahlan, who promptly annexes Galea to Richard's empire. When their half-brother Harold comes to tell Kahlan they are not happy about this annexation, and that Galea wishes to remain neutral in the war, Kahlan vows to destroy Galea, murder all its citizens and send her sister back to the rapists. Harold is then murdered by one of the wizards and this is treated as a good thing.

Wow. Always fun with mentally stable characters.

Hybrid

captaink wrote: »

This is a good blog post summing up the high (low?) points of the Sword of Truth series:

http://sandstormreviews.blogspot.com/2006/08/goodkind-parodies.html#rr

I have never picked up a Goodkind book and after reading that I still feel I should demand an apology.

Organichu

I admit that there are (many) flaws in the series, but some of that crap is just ridiculously skewed and only looks 'damning' via omission and outright deception.

Randall_Flagg

Princess Violet glared at him. "My mother says that Confessor Kahlan will come back and that we'll have a surprise for her the next time she comes here. I just want you to know because my mother said you'll be dead by then. My mother says I get to decide what to do to her. First, I'm going to cut off her hair. " Her hands were in fists, her face red. "Then i'm going to let all the guards rape her, every one! Then I'm going to put her in the dungeon for a few years so they'll have someone to play with! Then when I get tired of hurting her, I'll have her head chopped off and put it on a pole where I can watch it rot!"
Richard actually felt sorry for the little Princess. The sadness for her came over him in a wave. At that feeling, he was surprised to feel the thing in him that had come awake rise up.
Princess Violet squeezed her eyes shut, stuck her tongue out far as she could.
It was like a red flag.
The strength of the awakened power exploded through him.
He could feel her jaw shattter like a crystal goblet on a stone floor when his boot came up under it. The impact of the blow lifted the Princess into the air. Her own teeth severed her tongue before they, too, shattered. She landed on her back, a good distance away, trying to scream through the gushing blood.

yes

valiance

Randall_Flagg wrote: »

Princess Violet glared at him. "My mother says that Confessor Kahlan will come back and that we'll have a surprise for her the next time she comes here. I just want you to know because my mother said you'll be dead by then. My mother says I get to decide what to do to her. First, I'm going to cut off her hair. " Her hands were in fists, her face red. "Then i'm going to let all the guards rape her, every one! Then I'm going to put her in the dungeon for a few years so they'll have someone to play with! Then when I get tired of hurting her, I'll have her head chopped off and put it on a pole where I can watch it rot!"
Richard actually felt sorry for the little Princess. The sadness for her came over him in a wave. At that feeling, he was surprised to feel the thing in him that had come awake rise up.
Princess Violet squeezed her eyes shut, stuck her tongue out far as she could.
It was like a red flag.
The strength of the awakened power exploded through him.
He could feel her jaw shattter like a crystal goblet on a stone floor when his boot came up under it. The impact of the blow lifted the Princess into the air. Her own teeth severed her tongue before they, too, shattered. She landed on her back, a good distance away, trying to scream through the gushing blood.

yes

is..is that a real sword of truth quote? I read the first book and that seems startlingly familiar

Cinders

valiance wrote: »

Randall_Flagg wrote: »

Princess Violet glared at him. "My mother says that Confessor Kahlan will come back and that we'll have a surprise for her the next time she comes here. I just want you to know because my mother said you'll be dead by then. My mother says I get to decide what to do to her. First, I'm going to cut off her hair. " Her hands were in fists, her face red. "Then i'm going to let all the guards rape her, every one! Then I'm going to put her in the dungeon for a few years so they'll have someone to play with! Then when I get tired of hurting her, I'll have her head chopped off and put it on a pole where I can watch it rot!"
Richard actually felt sorry for the little Princess. The sadness for her came over him in a wave. At that feeling, he was surprised to feel the thing in him that had come awake rise up.
Princess Violet squeezed her eyes shut, stuck her tongue out far as she could.
It was like a red flag.
The strength of the awakened power exploded through him.
He could feel her jaw shattter like a crystal goblet on a stone floor when his boot came up under it. The impact of the blow lifted the Princess into the air. Her own teeth severed her tongue before they, too, shattered. She landed on her back, a good distance away, trying to scream through the gushing blood.

yes

is..is that a real sword of truth quote? I read the first book and that seems startlingly familiar

Yep, it's in the first book.

Erios

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

Randall_Flagg wrote: »

and then the allied soldiers kill all of the jews

Well, the nazis would have no problem shooting though the misguided Jews to kill the allies. What would you do pray tell?

You're essentially the worst person I've ever seen write something on the internet.

That's a really stupid thing to say and you should refrain from commenting unless you have some piece of empirical or constructive insight on what I'm saying.

Ok. Naked Empire was terrible and Terry Goodkind is the king of strawmen.

Shadowen

Erios wrote: »

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

Randall_Flagg wrote: »

and then the allied soldiers kill all of the jews

Well, the nazis would have no problem shooting though the misguided Jews to kill the allies. What would you do pray tell?

You're essentially the worst person I've ever seen write something on the internet.

That's a really stupid thing to say and you should refrain from commenting unless you have some piece of empirical or constructive insight on what I'm saying.

Ok. Naked Empire was terrible and Terry Goodkind is the king of strawmen.

Indeed.

The problem with the analogy isn't that they're killing civilians. It's that, to continue the metaphor, you wouldn't get Jews out willingly to protect the SS. There might have been Jews that went along selfishly with the Nazi party's demands, hiding the truth of their ancestry and selling out their fellows for permission to survive, but that sort of craven self-preservation is exactly the sort of thing that would cause them to rebel against the "human shield" notion. They would have to be coerced, so the scene still doesn't play out like that. And you would therefore theoretically (he's a complete sociopath, to judge by his actions--Wizard's Fifth Rule) have Richard using his preternatural skill with a sword, y'know, avoid killing the innocent civilians.

This book's timing means that scene was plainly a Take That against the pre-Iraq War notion that some US civilians might try to go to Iraq and stand on buildings as human shields.

Cantide

Shadowen wrote: »

Erios wrote: »

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

Randall_Flagg wrote: »

and then the allied soldiers kill all of the jews

Well, the nazis would have no problem shooting though the misguided Jews to kill the allies. What would you do pray tell?

You're essentially the worst person I've ever seen write something on the internet.

That's a really stupid thing to say and you should refrain from commenting unless you have some piece of empirical or constructive insight on what I'm saying.

Ok. Naked Empire was terrible and Terry Goodkind is the king of strawmen.

Indeed.

The problem with the analogy isn't that they're killing civilians. It's that, to continue the metaphor, you wouldn't get Jews out willingly to protect the SS. There might have been Jews that went along selfishly with the Nazi party's demands, hiding the truth of their ancestry and selling out their fellows for permission to survive, but that sort of craven self-preservation is exactly the sort of thing that would cause them to rebel against the "human shield" notion. They would have to be coerced, so the scene still doesn't play out like that. And you would therefore theoretically (he's a complete sociopath, to judge by his actions--Wizard's Fifth Rule) have Richard using his preternatural skill with a sword, y'know, avoid killing the innocent civilians.

This book's timing means that scene was plainly a Take That against the pre-Iraq War notion that some US civilians might try to go to Iraq and stand on buildings as human shields.

Also, the whole tone is off. It'd be one thing if Richard killing the unarmed protesters was treated as a tragedy, a necessary evil that he loathed doing but couldn't prevent. Instead, the atmosphere is "fuck yeah, get those worthless hippies."

Zombiemambo

Dyvion wrote: »

It was hideous! Horrid wholesale rape and torture of a decent story! From the beginning to the middle to the end... Argh... why must they abuse something that was so well done in the first place?

More of the same rantings in the spoiler...

Spoiler:

From Kahlan riding with her "sister?" to 5 soldiers pursuing her instead of 4 (it's a quad for crying out loud) to Kahlan carrying the Book of Counted Shadows with her instead of Richards father having him memorize it and destroy it to Richard reading it out loud to... Argh, it goes on and on and on.

If you're even a remote fan of the books, do yourself a favor and skip this atrocity.

holy shit an actual, honest to goodness fan of Wizard's First Rule

Derrick

Zombiemambo wrote: »

Dyvion wrote: »

It was hideous! Horrid wholesale rape and torture of a decent story! From the beginning to the middle to the end... Argh... why must they abuse something that was so well done in the first place?

More of the same rantings in the spoiler...

Spoiler:

From Kahlan riding with her "sister?" to 5 soldiers pursuing her instead of 4 (it's a quad for crying out loud) to Kahlan carrying the Book of Counted Shadows with her instead of Richards father having him memorize it and destroy it to Richard reading it out loud to... Argh, it goes on and on and on.

If you're even a remote fan of the books, do yourself a favor and skip this atrocity.

holy shit an actual, honest to goodness fan of Wizard's First Rule

The first one wasn't so bad. They get terribly worse though.

Zombiemambo

Derrick wrote: »

Zombiemambo wrote: »

Dyvion wrote: »

It was hideous! Horrid wholesale rape and torture of a decent story! From the beginning to the middle to the end... Argh... why must they abuse something that was so well done in the first place?

More of the same rantings in the spoiler...

Spoiler:

From Kahlan riding with her "sister?" to 5 soldiers pursuing her instead of 4 (it's a quad for crying out loud) to Kahlan carrying the Book of Counted Shadows with her instead of Richards father having him memorize it and destroy it to Richard reading it out loud to... Argh, it goes on and on and on.

If you're even a remote fan of the books, do yourself a favor and skip this atrocity.

holy shit an actual, honest to goodness fan of Wizard's First Rule

The first one wasn't so bad. They get terribly worse though.

I've read maybe a collective three paragraphs from the entire series and I can safely say that, from a person who is not a talented writer or a good book critic, this is an affront to literature.