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I Think We're a[Clone] Now

Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
edited November 2008 in Debate and/or Discourse
Scientists in Japan Clone Mice Frozen For 16 Years
Japanese scientists have produced clones of mice that have been dead and frozen for 16 years -- a feat that could lead researchers to one day resurrect long-extinct species, such as the mammoth.

Dolly was cloned using cells from live animals. Now scientists believe they can resurrect extinct species.

Until now, scientists have only been able to produce clones using cells from live animals. This is how researchers created Dolly the Sheep, the first mammal to be cloned from an adult animal.

Researchers had thought that frozen cells were unusable because ice crystals would have damaged the DNA. That belief would rule out the possibility of resurrecting extinct animals from their frozen remains.

But the latest research -- published in the journal, Proceedings for the National Academy of Sciences -- shows that scientists may have overcome the obstacle.

It's all over for us. Ian Malcolm was right. First it's mice, then it's mammoths, then it's dinosaurs. Worldwide Jurassic Park.

WELP.

If we're heading down that road ... wait, wait. First, should we head down that road? You get into some tricky ethical dilemnas that way apparently. At least that's what sci-fi has taught me. Me, I say go for it. I want to see an actual woolly mammoth or sabertooth tiger or (oh my oh my please) Tyrannosaurus Rex. What do you want to see, if anything?

But what about people? Do we leave that untouched? It's funny to me that the standard discussion is whether it's ethical to clone humans. What I'm wondering is if it would be ethical to clone Neanderthals or the Peking Man?

This isn't too well fleshed out and it's Election Day, so maybe it won't get a whole lot of attention, but maybe this will spur some discussion or yelling.

Armored Gorilla on
"I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."

Posts

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    This uh, this isn't the breakthrough you think it is. It is a massive thing to bring back a species which has no living reproductive system - mice can be implanted into mice easily - the development environment is the same.

    There is no such potential for say, dinosaurs. The woolly mammoth, well, maybe elephants but that would still be, I imagine, asking a lot.

    Dis' wrote: »
    Cancer is when cells stop letting the body mooch off their hard work - clearly a community of like-minded cells should isolate themselves and do the best job each can do, even if the rest of the body collapses!
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    This uh, this isn't the breakthrough you think it is. It is a massive thing to bring back a species which has no living reproductive system - mice can be implanted into mice easily - the development environment is the same.

    There is no such potential for say, dinosaurs. The woolly mammoth, well, maybe elephants but that would still be, I imagine, asking a lot.

    mammoth = aliens?

    get to six months and splash! the elephant explodes

    My Dark Souls 2 Diary
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Consider it to be hyperbole then; I never said I was an expert and it doesn't have to be a solely scientific discussion.

    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • brandotheninjamasterbrandotheninjamaster Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Still even if they are able to clone these animals, aren't there still some problems with clone during it's lifecycle (example: more prone to sickness, higher death rate, etc)?

  • RuzanRuzan Registered User
    edited November 2008
    Speaking of clones, have you read any political threads on these forums :p

    If you say "plz" because it is shorter than "please" then I'll say "no" because it is shorter than "yes".
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Cloning any sentient being at this point is essentially immoral - there's no reasonable expectation that the result will turn out well, so it's fairly likely that there would be developmental abnormalities. That covers everything from humans to chimps (since they hold honorary human status and science on them is subject to pretty tight restrictions).

    I think cloning early evolutionary junctures of mankind opens up a different can of worms as well - that is - is it right to deliberately create a human with diminished brain capacity? I'm not so sure I'd be happy about that - I mean, how would such a person (for indeed they would be a person in their own right) - deal with society and their own existence?

    Dis' wrote: »
    Cancer is when cells stop letting the body mooch off their hard work - clearly a community of like-minded cells should isolate themselves and do the best job each can do, even if the rest of the body collapses!
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    poor old dolly degraded and fell apart after only a few years. she had so many problems it was not funny.

    we can make an animal that looks good but as healthy as the old fashioned way? not for a damn long time

    edit: I'll just leave it to you elm I'd just be parroting you anyway

    My Dark Souls 2 Diary
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Cloning any sentient being at this point is essentially immoral - there's no reasonable expectation that the result will turn out well, so it's fairly likely that there would be developmental abnormalities. That covers everything from humans to chimps (since they hold honorary human status and science on them is subject to pretty tight restrictions).

    I think cloning early evolutionary junctures of mankind opens up a different can of worms as well - that is - is it right to deliberately create a human with diminished brain capacity? I'm not so sure I'd be happy about that - I mean, how would such a person (for indeed they would be a person in their own right) - deal with society and their own existence?

    I'm with you on that. And how do you treat them? You can't really keep them sheltered away like an animal for study.

    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • Low KeyLow Key Registered User
    edited November 2008
    Cloning any sentient being at this point is essentially immoral - there's no reasonable expectation that the result will turn out well, so it's fairly likely that there would be developmental abnormalities. That covers everything from humans to chimps (since they hold honorary human status and science on them is subject to pretty tight restrictions).

    I think cloning early evolutionary junctures of mankind opens up a different can of worms as well - that is - is it right to deliberately create a human with diminished brain capacity? I'm not so sure I'd be happy about that - I mean, how would such a person (for indeed they would be a person in their own right) - deal with society and their own existence?

    Since when have chimps held honorary human status?

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I was under the impression they'd been added to our particular subset of the homo genus. At any rate I do know they are considered rather more importantly human and you need pretty special permits to do the science on them.

    I can't for the life of me find an article about it though.

    Dis' wrote: »
    Cancer is when cells stop letting the body mooch off their hard work - clearly a community of like-minded cells should isolate themselves and do the best job each can do, even if the rest of the body collapses!
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited November 2008
    Time to bust out the frozen head of Walt Disney, I guess.

    [While watching popcorn in the microwave]
    Maddie: "Look Riley, the bag's as big as your head now!"
    Riley: "Hahaha, yeah!"
    Maddie: "Look, now it's as big as your butt!"
    Riley: "Omigosh, it looks just like my butt!"
  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Time to bust out the frozen head of Walt Disney, I guess.

    Don't forget Ted Williams.

    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • Low KeyLow Key Registered User
    edited November 2008
    I was under the impression they'd been added to our particular subset of the homo genus. At any rate I do know they are considered rather more importantly human and you need pretty special permits to do the science on them.

    I can't for the life of me find an article about it though.

    Yeah, I was just curious. It's been a couple of years since I've had to deal with the NHMRC. As far as I know, all non-human primates are regarded as particularly sensitive, and there are very strict rules involved, but no great ape is given any more weight than the others ethically.

    In terms of research ethics there is a huge and fundamental difference in the founding principles that guide human and animal research. Placing any non human species under the HREC umbrella would be a huge move that'd change everything that currently protects animal research. Getting back on topic, viable human clones could conceivably have a similar effect.

  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive Damn these electric sex pants! Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    The Daily Mail is worried about the technology being used to make gullible people believe they can be completely restored after they die, with memories and everything intact.

    I'd be offended if I didn't know some people that might work on.

    Another successful post, thanks to the power of Spacestar Ordering™!
  • DmanDman Registered User
    edited November 2008
    The Daily Mail is worried about the technology being used to make gullible people believe they can be completely restored after they die, with memories and everything intact.

    I'd be offended if I didn't know some people that might work on.

    Well, we need to store your memories before you die so we can put them into your youthful clone. Just give me all your money and step into this hear machine, you'll feel some pressure and a little pinch, nothing to be worried about.

  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Altered Carbon?

    That'd fuck with the religious types morality right smart.

    My Dark Souls 2 Diary
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Time to bust out the frozen head of Walt Disney, I guess.

    Don't forget Ted Williams.

    I think they have Albert Einstein's brain holed up somewhere as well.

  • METAzraeLMETAzraeL Registered User
    edited November 2008
    maybe someday they could use large lizards and dinosaur dna to create miniature dinosaurs.

    Who wouldn't want a cute little toy rex running around their house?


    dream a little dream or you could live a little dream
    sleep forever if you wish to be a dreamer
  • musanmanmusanman Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Time to bust out the frozen head of Walt Disney, I guess.

    Don't forget Ted Williams.

    I think they have Albert Einstein's brain holed up somewhere as well.

    If nothing else this could put an end to nature vs nurture debates.

    sic2sig.jpg
  • JohannenJohannen Registered User
    edited November 2008
    Dolly was also the sheep they did this to quite a few years ago.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_the_sheep

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