new comic 10/14

Mysst

The Geek wrote: »

I'm interested in trying out the Stargate MMO when it comes out.

you and me, geek. and Mr d, of course.

also here you go geek i know you want these for secret satan http://dvice.com/archives/2008/11/star_trek_switc.php

Ledneh

NotACrook wrote: »

I'm so happy to not be excited about this.

It was a strange day when I realized I didn't care about WoW anymore

It seems stupid to me to call it an addiction, but I think it really was one after all

arod_77

Solo content is worthless--AoC drove that shit into the ground. Story driven game play is worthless too--why even pretend someone cares?


EvE online--now that game has balls. Independence--total economic and political control by the players.

MMO's are about allowing a compelling narrative to form within the community itself. Urban Dead nailed this and that game didn't even have "raids" or "tiers" or other bullshit.

Langly

Olivaw wrote: »

I liked Lord of the Rings Online more than WoW

That's right, I said it

City of Heroes is probably the best recent MMO I've played though

Haven't tried Age of Conan

I played AoC from launch and let me tell you - don't do it

Der Waffle Mous

Javen wrote: »

arod_77 wrote: »

Javen wrote: »

arod_77 wrote: »

The problem is that the formula is shit and it's clogging up the system. I don't mind that the game exists and some people play it--but its totally held back the MMO formula for fucking YEARS.

SWG was the best thing to happen to MMO's since UO before it got hit by the WoW craze

Ask anyone who actually knows what they're taking about and they will tell you that WoW did absolutely everything right. In the US at least, MMO's were on their way out before Warcraft came along. EQ was long past its prime, FFXI was incredibly biased towards the Japanese playerbase, and SWG was poop from a butt. Hell, the two lead Warcraft devs actually came from the top guild in EQ and said 'hey, we could make an awesome game if we cut out all the bullshit grinding and forced group mechanics'

Everyone likes to call foul because they made the game more accessible and that's just goddamn stupid.

Bullshit. It did everything right with a sparkling layer of Blizzard polish. It is the perfection of EQ formula but totally safe with no risks or true innovations.

WoW introduced real solo content in MMO's. Before that your only option for progression was "group up, kill monster x ad nauseum." Before that there were no "instances" your only option to get loot was to wait in line for your turn to kill a rare spawn that anyone could just waltz up and steal anytime and there was nothing you could do about it. It didn't perfect any formula, it made a new one which worked about a thousand times better than the last one.

Didn't EQ2 come out like two weeks earlier with all of that?

Olivaw

EVE online is the single most aggressively boring game I've ever had the displeasure of playing

arod_77

The difference is that, in WoW, you are given a reason to want to do something--and that reason is a reward in the form of +1.

A good MMO should allow the player to create their own motives.

cj iwakura

The only MMO I ever plan on playing will be the SMT one, whenever closed beta starts.

GameGrrl

the new backgrounds look really good in this comic gabe!

jwalk

I certainly haven't played every MMO but I've never seen one where actual player skill was worth a whole lot. Most battles were determined by "gear" and "levels" more than player skill. Maybe the first group of people that defeat some new boss monster have some work to do, then everyone after that just follows the script they downloaded from the web.

The most "difficult" part of any MMOs is finding a group of people to play with that aren't complete idiots or looking to scam or rip people off....

FirmSkater

It seems like people either fucking HATE eve or they love it.

I have been playing for 2 and a half years. Only recently thought abotu quitting but that all changed when in the last week all of our allies reset standings and started trying to take our space. It's going to be a hella fun few weeks.

arod_77

Look at the KOTOR mmo.

If it weren't for WoW they would not even consider trying at another MMO so soon after Galaxies.

But there you have it, and it looks like more of the same.

Wren

what is this, some sort of gears of war comic?

Hunter

Javen wrote: »

Hunter wrote: »

arod_77 wrote: »

The problem is that the formula is shit and it's clogging up the system. I don't mind that the game exists and some people play it--but its totally held back the MMO formula for fucking YEARS.

SWG was the best thing to happen to MMO's since UO before it got hit by the WoW craze

WoW has dumbed down the MMO to such a level that any idiot can play it and be all "ZOMG I R GOT TEH SHINIEST SWORSD AND TEH BIG SPIKEY HEMLAT!".

Try going to any other MMO out there now and you'll see WoW kiddies who are trying to play a different game bitching about how things are broke or don't work right, because they think WoW is either the only way or the best way. You can spot the warcraft tards so easily, and it's just sad.

And this is just plain wrong. Before the first expansion came out Blizzard released a statistic that about 20% of the WoW populace had ever actually seen Ragnaros. And Ragnaros wasn't even the strongest boss. Fuck, hardly anyone did Naxx because it was so goddamn hard, and that's exactly the way Blizzard wanted it. By their own admission it was the best dungeon they had ever designed. Same with BC. Sure you could get PvP epics but really only a very very small amount of people ever actually saw late game content.

No, it's not plain wrong. I've played a lot of MMO's and WoW was a great PvE game with shoe horned PvP that constantly nerfed the PvE in increments to allow more and more people to experience it as the content moved forward.

I've done all the high end raiding. I've done it when it was fresh, when the strats were well documented, and when it was nerfed to the point of easy mode so everyone had a chance to see it. Compared to EQ and DAoC, Blizzard has done everything possible to bow to the lowest common denominator and make WoW as shiny for the kiddies as possible.

Yes, for the first few months the content is kept at a high standard for the hardcore raiders. BC had constant nerfs to raiding content and raid bosses every month or two, to make it easier and easier for both bad players and casual players to see all the content.

Javen

jwalk wrote: »

I certainly haven't played every MMO but I've never seen one where actual player skill was worth a whole lot. Most battles were determined by "gear" and "levels" more than player skill. Maybe the first group of people that defeat some new boss monster have some work to do, then everyone after that just follows the script they downloaded from the web.

The most "difficult" part of any MMOs is finding a group of people to play with that aren't complete idiots or looking to scam or rip people off....

player skill in MMO's is a myth

progression in MMO's is never fueled by skill. It's done by forethought and playtime.

arod_77

And yes Gabe's backgrounds are very good these days.

Maybe his painting helps?

Marathon

GameGrrl wrote: »

the new backgrounds look really good in this comic gabe!

They don't read the forums, jesus fuck you're retarded.

Olivaw

To be fair, Gabe reads this thread sometimes

But he hasn't lately so

Balefuego

Kantankeris wrote: »

KrunkMcGrunk wrote: »

arod_77 wrote: »

Is this the last expansion?

Aren't they going to run out of demi-gods and gods to kill?

You are underestimating their ability to make shit up

This should be roughly the end of their ability to milk the plot of Warcraft III's awesome story. From here on out it's gonna be purely adversaries made up for WoW so it will likely get even more generic from here on out.

What? No. Aszhara and the Naga are still in the Maelstrom, Malfurion has been in the Emerald Dream since vanilla WoW, you got to fight Kil'Jaedean in TBC but he's not dead, and Sargeras is still around.

tugga

i really like this comic

a lot

Dog

I'm waiting for the South Seas expansion.


Undermine, boat wars, pirates.

Wren

the lich king isn't even a god or demigod. he's just a powerful emoqueen

we still got titans and old gods and naga queens left to kill

Der Waffle Mous

Hunter wrote: »

Javen wrote: »

Hunter wrote: »

arod_77 wrote: »

The problem is that the formula is shit and it's clogging up the system. I don't mind that the game exists and some people play it--but its totally held back the MMO formula for fucking YEARS.

SWG was the best thing to happen to MMO's since UO before it got hit by the WoW craze

WoW has dumbed down the MMO to such a level that any idiot can play it and be all "ZOMG I R GOT TEH SHINIEST SWORSD AND TEH BIG SPIKEY HEMLAT!".

Try going to any other MMO out there now and you'll see WoW kiddies who are trying to play a different game bitching about how things are broke or don't work right, because they think WoW is either the only way or the best way. You can spot the warcraft tards so easily, and it's just sad.

And this is just plain wrong. Before the first expansion came out Blizzard released a statistic that about 20% of the WoW populace had ever actually seen Ragnaros. And Ragnaros wasn't even the strongest boss. Fuck, hardly anyone did Naxx because it was so goddamn hard, and that's exactly the way Blizzard wanted it. By their own admission it was the best dungeon they had ever designed. Same with BC. Sure you could get PvP epics but really only a very very small amount of people ever actually saw late game content.

No, it's not plain wrong. I've played a lot of MMO's and WoW was a great PvE game with shoe horned PvP that constantly nerfed the PvE in increments to allow more and more people to experience it as the content moved forward.

I've done all the high end raiding. I've done it when it was fresh, when the strats were well documented, and when it was nerfed to the point of easy mode so everyone had a chance to see it. Compared to EQ and DAoC, Blizzard has done everything possible to bow to the lowest common denominator and make WoW as shiny for the kiddies as possible.

Yes, for the first few months the content is kept at a high standard for the hardcore raiders. BC had constant nerfs to raiding content and raid bosses every month or two, to make it easier and easier for both bad players and casual players to see all the content.

Y'know, I just have to say it.

Why is this a bad thing?

Hunter

Javen wrote: »

jwalk wrote: »

I certainly haven't played every MMO but I've never seen one where actual player skill was worth a whole lot. Most battles were determined by "gear" and "levels" more than player skill. Maybe the first group of people that defeat some new boss monster have some work to do, then everyone after that just follows the script they downloaded from the web.

The most "difficult" part of any MMOs is finding a group of people to play with that aren't complete idiots or looking to scam or rip people off....

player skill in MMO's is a myth

progression in MMO's is never fueled by skill. It's done by forethought and playtime.

Pretty much. It's hard to claim skill in games that auto aim for you and your abilities are shared equally by anyone else who rolled your class.

It's just reaction time and experience. In WoW, the best rule of thumb for high end raiding is don't stand in the fucking spell effects.

Weaver

Fuck WoW.

WAR is awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ7x9ieXr5M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKOhzfkCdbY

Cilla Black

Marathon wrote: »

GameGrrl wrote: »

the new backgrounds look really good in this comic gabe!

They don't read the forums, jesus fuck you're retarded.

Except that, you know, gabe reads the new comic thread all the time.

Langly

FirmSkater wrote: »

It seems like people either fucking HATE eve or they love it.

I have been playing for 2 and a half years. Only recently thought abotu quitting but that all changed when in the last week all of our allies reset standings and started trying to take our space. It's going to be a hella fun few weeks.

I really, really like eve and played for a good bit of time. i was in the goon corp, and it was really fun. The only problem I had with it was that it takes too much time, more so than any mmo I've ever played. I think that was because I liked it more than any other mmo, so I was giving it more than I should have. With wow, I can go in doses and stop.

Javen

Hunter wrote: »

Javen wrote: »

Hunter wrote: »

arod_77 wrote: »

The problem is that the formula is shit and it's clogging up the system. I don't mind that the game exists and some people play it--but its totally held back the MMO formula for fucking YEARS.

SWG was the best thing to happen to MMO's since UO before it got hit by the WoW craze

WoW has dumbed down the MMO to such a level that any idiot can play it and be all "ZOMG I R GOT TEH SHINIEST SWORSD AND TEH BIG SPIKEY HEMLAT!".

Try going to any other MMO out there now and you'll see WoW kiddies who are trying to play a different game bitching about how things are broke or don't work right, because they think WoW is either the only way or the best way. You can spot the warcraft tards so easily, and it's just sad.

And this is just plain wrong. Before the first expansion came out Blizzard released a statistic that about 20% of the WoW populace had ever actually seen Ragnaros. And Ragnaros wasn't even the strongest boss. Fuck, hardly anyone did Naxx because it was so goddamn hard, and that's exactly the way Blizzard wanted it. By their own admission it was the best dungeon they had ever designed. Same with BC. Sure you could get PvP epics but really only a very very small amount of people ever actually saw late game content.

No, it's not plain wrong. I've played a lot of MMO's and WoW was a great PvE game with shoe horned PvP that constantly nerfed the PvE in increments to allow more and more people to experience it as the content moved forward.

I've done all the high end raiding. I've done it when it was fresh, when the strats were well documented, and when it was nerfed to the point of easy mode so everyone had a chance to see it. Compared to EQ and DAoC, Blizzard has done everything possible to bow to the lowest common denominator and make WoW as shiny for the kiddies as possible.

Yes, for the first few months the content is kept at a high standard for the hardcore raiders. BC had constant nerfs to raiding content and raid bosses every month or two, to make it easier and easier for both bad players and casual players to see all the content.

Because after a few months the previous "end game content" wasn't end game content anymore. It's like buying a TV, the price is going to be a lot less a year after it comes out, but by then there are going to be bigger, better TVs out there. When vanilla WoW was first released, Ragnaros was the end game. That's it. After a while they introduced a new boss, the new end game. And since the old boss wasn't the end all be all anymore, they made him more accessible. Same thing with BC. When it was first released, the furthest you could get was Kael and Vashj. By the time you could kill Illidan, there was no point keeping the previous content at the same "price" because the ceiling was higher. It's what having an evolving game is all about. You can either work hard, stay on top of the game and rank higher, or wait until it's on the second rack and always stay a step behind.

Weaver

This is amazing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS7Y7T3thD4

jwalk

My aren't we the elitist.

News flash, none of it fucking matters. So what, you aren't the only one with A_Shiny_Sword_9987 in some stupid video game.

I mean, is your girlfriend impressed by your WoW character? Do you HAVE a girlfriend?

Wren

but war IS wow, just without the pve

Dog

Ragnaros wasn't even killable without using periscopes to bug out his knockback when he was first encountered. At release a couple guilds had tackled Onyxia at the end of beta, so even making progression into Molten Core was bleeding edge (I mean you need fourty people to be level 60!)

arod_77

Is it fun?


Thats all you really have to ask yourself

Dog

jwalk wrote: »

I mean, is your girlfriend impressed by your WoW character? Do you HAVE a girlfriend?

My girlfriend is my WoW character.

Cilla Black

Hey, some people have fun playing this MMO!

Some other people have fun playing that MMO!

Then these guys over here hate MMOs in general!

Who gives a shit!

PikaPuff

arod_77 wrote: »

And yes Gabe's backgrounds are very good these days.

Maybe his painting helps?

Dunno if this is the same technique:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2008/11/3/

Spoiler:

I had a few requests from other Photoshop users asking how I achieved some of the texture effects and I'm more than happy to help.

Here is a detail shot from one of the new pages so you can see what I'm talking about.




Before I go into all the details it's probably worth mentioning that I did record the making of one of the later pages for Ubi. I'm not sure when that will be going live but seeing that might also be helpful.

So I "paint" picture in PS using the brush tool set to airbrush mode with my pressure sensitivity on my Wacom jacked way up. What gives it the texture is literally a texture that I place on a separate layer above the painting. This layer is set to "overlay" which allows you to see through it to the image underneath. As far as what texture to use that's really up to you and I highly recommend playing around with all different kinds. There are lots of free texture sites on the web but it's also easy to go out and take your own photos of things like cement, peeling paint or some rusted metal. The important thing to remember is that the overlay mode will apply the color of the texture to the image below it as well. So if you have some cool red bricks and you lay them over your yellow image it will now be orange. If I want to keep my base color I simply convert the texture to greyscale first.

Hopefully that makes sense.

-Gabe out

Javen

I guess I just don't see the problem with using previous content as a stepping stone into newer content. I can guarantee Illidan was just as hard to kill when he was first released as Blackwing was when BWL first came out, so as long as that status quo is maintained it's hard to see fault in it.

Wren

all the original raiding content was so hard because blizz had no idea what the fuck they were doing. this is back when they were still putting spirit on rogue gear.

Cilla Black

didn't like fucking everything have spirit on it back in classic raiding?

Hunter

jwalk wrote: »

My aren't we the elitist.

News flash, none of it fucking matters. So what, you aren't the only one with A_Shiny_Sword_9987 in some stupid video game.

I mean, is your girlfriend impressed by your WoW character? Do you HAVE a girlfriend?

There's a big difference between being the only one with A_Shiny_Sword_9987 and every fucking person with 15 bucks and a computer having A_Shiny_Sword_9987 because they cried on forums about content being hard or their class sucked vs class x.

WoW turned into everybody having A_Shiny_Sword_9987 as long as you could spend 12 hours a day grinding shit. That carried into their PvP model too, which got old and frustrating.