Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

new comic 10/14

1246789

Posts

  • DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
    edited November 2008
    Javen wrote: »
    I guess I just don't see the problem with using previous content as a stepping stone into newer content. I can guarantee Illidan was just as hard to kill when he was first released as Blackwing was when BWL first came out, so as long as that status quo is maintained it's hard to see fault in it.

    I agree with ya here. I used to do the whole bleeding edge thing, but if I picked up WoW again I wouldn't mind doing the old raids, even if they were easy as pie, just to experience the content.

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Wren wrote: »
    all the original raiding content was so hard because blizz had no idea what the fuck they were doing. this is back when they were still putting spirit on rogue gear.

    But everything was also fairly tank and spank back then, too. There's definitely been an evolution is boss strategy as much as there's been an evolution in player equipment and abilities.

    bar-cc-1.jpg
  • arod_77arod_77 __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2008
    The whole idea of creating "content" in a persistent world is just strange to me.

    It seems like the ideal would be giving new tools and toys to the players and allowing natural rivalries and factions to carve out the content.

    Again I mention Urban Dead (although it wasn't sustainable--that could be the problem with my theory)

    glitteratsigcopy.jpg
  • WrenWren Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I still hate how a raid revolves around the MT. you need a super good player for a MT, or you can't do anything.

    shit let anyone tank then we're in business

    tf2sig.jpg
    TF2 - Wren BF3: Wren-fu
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Really if you doubt Blizzards ability to craft challenging, yet fair boss encounters, find a way to do the old 40 man Naxx Four Horsemen encounter. It was a perfect balance between equipment, strategy and communication.

    EDIT: And it was fucking hard.

    bar-cc-1.jpg
  • ThatDudeOverThereThatDudeOverThere hasn't seen the movie just likes the titleRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I like this comic

    nHu0VJL.png
    My Youtube My Steam SMITE IGN: TDOTCRFH4 come SMITE with me
  • ThatDudeOverThereThatDudeOverThere hasn't seen the movie just likes the titleRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    also I was really disappointed to get home from class and find the hot or not thread locked

    so heartbroken

    nHu0VJL.png
    My Youtube My Steam SMITE IGN: TDOTCRFH4 come SMITE with me
  • DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
    edited November 2008
    I think fights like Kael and Vashj pushed horsemen even further. When you watch a Vashj kill executed perfectly it's like watching clockwork.

  • DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    robothero wrote: »
    dru i had a dream last night that you changed your name to Brohim and became a professional copy machine repairman.
    I'm speechless

    belruelotterav-1.jpg
  • PikaPuffPikaPuff Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Um. Do you guys even care about the 60 content anymore? what is it? Molten Core, right? Do you guys care about working hard for hours and hours to get an item that sucks compared to the 70 content, and now 80 content?

    No one cares about those crap items anymore, so why not make it easier so the other 80% can check out the place?

    or better yet, how about they keep the instance the same, and upon entering you can choose to do an easy mode version, which has none of the drops, or fake drops which are unequippable item versions of the real thing. or or or 0 stat versions of the real thing so you can still look cool but with none of the stats.

  • HunterHunter Chemist with a heart of Au Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Javen wrote: »
    I guess I just don't see the problem with using previous content as a stepping stone into newer content. I can guarantee Illidan was just as hard to kill when he was first released as Blackwing was when BWL first came out, so as long as that status quo is maintained it's hard to see fault in it.

    Not even close.

    40 man raiding was easy mode because you still only needed like 25 or so people paying attention, the others could fuck off and usually did.

    In BC, all 25 people had to be paying attention and doing their job unless you out geared the content. Even then, if enough people were fucking around, standing in fire effects, or not following the strategy to get around the trick the boss had you were still fucked.

    In BC you could also skip content. Like Vash and Kael were harder then the first 2 bosses in Hyjal and like the first 3 or 4 bosses in Black Temple, and gave worse loot. Once they removed the need to kill the T5 head bosses to get into T6, people suddenly jumped in gear level. They then cleared Vash and Kael for fun and basically ran to Illidan, only stopping because Bloodboil sucked and you needed Shadow Resist gear for the one boss and you had to farm it.

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    PikaPuff wrote: »
    Um. Do you guys even care about the 60 content anymore? what is it? Molten Core, right? Do you guys care about working hard for hours and hours to get an item that sucks compared to the 70 content, and now 80 content?

    No one cares about those crap items anymore, so why not make it easier so the other 80% can check out the place?

    I've gone back and done older content so I could see it. Granted the sense of accomplishment is much lower because the natural progress of the game has made it simpler, but it's still an interesting experience.

    bar-cc-1.jpg
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Hunter wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    I guess I just don't see the problem with using previous content as a stepping stone into newer content. I can guarantee Illidan was just as hard to kill when he was first released as Blackwing was when BWL first came out, so as long as that status quo is maintained it's hard to see fault in it.

    Not even close.

    40 man raiding was easy mode because you still only needed like 25 or so people paying attention, the others could fuck off and usually did.

    In BC, all 25 people had to be paying attention and doing their job unless you out geared the content. Even then, if enough people were fucking around, standing in fire effects, or not following the strategy to get around the trick the boss had you were still fucked.

    In BC you could also skill content. Like Vash and Kael were harder then the first 2 bosses in Hyjal and like the first 3 or 4 bosses in Black Temple, and gave worse loot. Once they removed the need to kill the T5 head bosses to get into T6, people suddenly jumped in gear level. They then cleared Vash and Kael for fun and basically ran to Illidan, only stopping because Bloodboil sucked and you needed Shadow Resist gear for the one boss and you had to farm it.

    Once you already had the old 40 man bosses on farm then yeah, you could start goofing off, but before that? Show me one guild that got their first Blackwing or C'Thun kill with only 25 people.

    bar-cc-1.jpg
  • WrenWren Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    think he meant 25 people who pay attention and the rest are hunters

    tf2sig.jpg
    TF2 - Wren BF3: Wren-fu
  • DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
    edited November 2008
    we killed onyxia with 40 paladins

  • PikaPuffPikaPuff Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    were they all ret paladins, though?

  • DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
    edited November 2008
    it was right before BC was released so there were some ret, some prot and mostly holy

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I mean fuck, even before BC came out we had people 5 manning Onyxia. But when you head in there for the first time with 39 other newbies, you had all better be on point or else you're going to get tail whipped and whelplings up the ass.

    bar-cc-1.jpg
  • WrenWren Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    we killed onyxia with 24 people, back in the day. she's more of a slow and steady boss anyways

    tf2sig.jpg
    TF2 - Wren BF3: Wren-fu
  • HunterHunter Chemist with a heart of Au Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Javen wrote: »
    Hunter wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    I guess I just don't see the problem with using previous content as a stepping stone into newer content. I can guarantee Illidan was just as hard to kill when he was first released as Blackwing was when BWL first came out, so as long as that status quo is maintained it's hard to see fault in it.

    Not even close.

    40 man raiding was easy mode because you still only needed like 25 or so people paying attention, the others could fuck off and usually did.

    In BC, all 25 people had to be paying attention and doing their job unless you out geared the content. Even then, if enough people were fucking around, standing in fire effects, or not following the strategy to get around the trick the boss had you were still fucked.

    In BC you could also skill content. Like Vash and Kael were harder then the first 2 bosses in Hyjal and like the first 3 or 4 bosses in Black Temple, and gave worse loot. Once they removed the need to kill the T5 head bosses to get into T6, people suddenly jumped in gear level. They then cleared Vash and Kael for fun and basically ran to Illidan, only stopping because Bloodboil sucked and you needed Shadow Resist gear for the one boss and you had to farm it.

    Once you already had the old 40 man bosses on farm then yeah, you could start goofing off, but before that? Show me one guild that got their first Blackwing or C'Thun kill with only 25 people.

    C'Thun was actually easier with less people because you had more room to run around and avoid eye beams. Like 5 or 10 people would die quickly, and then the rest of the fight was on.

    Also, we killed most of our BWL bosses the first time with like 35 people getting our raid off the ground. You didn't need 40 until you hit the dog boss in BWL. Then you could cheese Nefarion by doing the throne strategy as long as you didn't get red dragons.

  • DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
    edited November 2008
    Yeah we did most of BWL with 30-35 people but chromaggus was always a dick

  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    PikaPuff wrote: »
    Um. Do you guys even care about the 60 content anymore? what is it? Molten Core, right? Do you guys care about working hard for hours and hours to get an item that sucks compared to the 70 content, and now 80 content?

    No one cares about those crap items anymore, so why not make it easier so the other 80% can check out the place?

    or better yet, how about they keep the instance the same, and upon entering you can choose to do an easy mode version, which has none of the drops, or fake drops which are unequippable item versions of the real thing. or or or 0 stat versions of the real thing so you can still look cool but with none of the stats.

    why would we still care about content that we've done 100+ times already and we are so overpowered for that it's completley trivial at this point?

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • jwalkjwalk Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I can understand wanting challenging, new content. I just can't understand how other players beating that content affects your fun in any way at all, unless you are just some elitist asshole.

    I also think you're over-estimating the number of people who can or even want to beat the top-end content. Not everyone can grind for 12 hours a day, or even wants to.. yeesh.

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Balefuego wrote: »
    PikaPuff wrote: »
    Um. Do you guys even care about the 60 content anymore? what is it? Molten Core, right? Do you guys care about working hard for hours and hours to get an item that sucks compared to the 70 content, and now 80 content?

    No one cares about those crap items anymore, so why not make it easier so the other 80% can check out the place?

    or better yet, how about they keep the instance the same, and upon entering you can choose to do an easy mode version, which has none of the drops, or fake drops which are unequippable item versions of the real thing. or or or 0 stat versions of the real thing so you can still look cool but with none of the stats.

    why would we still care about content that we've done 100+ times already and we are so overpowered for that it's completley trivial at this point?

    Hardly anyone did Naxx, which is why they brought it back.

    bar-cc-1.jpg
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    The game certainly has its flaws, but content progression is most certainly not one of them.

    If you're going to level criticism, do it by pointing out how Blizzard totally ignores the evolution of their UI and simply lets modders do the work for them.

    bar-cc-1.jpg
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Well they have added stuff to the UI. Enemy cast bars was a big thing, also now there's a built in threat meter.

    It's no Omen but its there.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Balefuego wrote: »
    Well they have added stuff to the UI. Enemy cast bars was a big thing, also now there's a built in threat meter.

    It's no Omen but its there.

    and it only took years after these ideas were initially implemented via the modding community for Blizzard to finally throw them in the game. They just threw the mod kit at everyone and said 'do what you want, just don't make a mess'

    bar-cc-1.jpg
  • Kuribo's ShoeKuribo's Shoe Kuribo's Stocking North PoleRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    NotACrook wrote: »
    I'm so happy to not be excited about this.

    h

    5

    xmassig2.gif
  • The GeekThe Geek Oh-Two Crew Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    Mysst wrote: »
    The Geek wrote: »
    I'm interested in trying out the Stargate MMO when it comes out.
    you and me, geek. and Mr d, of course.

    also here you go geek i know you want these for secret satan http://dvice.com/archives/2008/11/star_trek_switc.php

    I like how there are non-combat based jobs.

    And those panels are awesome.

    zappsigsm.jpg
    Amazon wish list | Please check out my wife's blog and jewelry store.
  • Sara LynnSara Lynn Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I love the walrus men

    they are so cute

    I want one

  • Kuribo's ShoeKuribo's Shoe Kuribo's Stocking North PoleRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    wow needs more lightsabers and robots and less elves and forests

    xmassig2.gif
  • jwalkjwalk Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    More like World of Warhammer Galaxies... Craft.

  • DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
    edited November 2008
    i heard stargate was very pretty graphically but thats about it

  • PikaPuffPikaPuff Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Javen wrote: »
    Balefuego wrote: »
    PikaPuff wrote: »
    Um. Do you guys even care about the 60 content anymore? what is it? Molten Core, right? Do you guys care about working hard for hours and hours to get an item that sucks compared to the 70 content, and now 80 content?

    No one cares about those crap items anymore, so why not make it easier so the other 80% can check out the place?

    or better yet, how about they keep the instance the same, and upon entering you can choose to do an easy mode version, which has none of the drops, or fake drops which are unequippable item versions of the real thing. or or or 0 stat versions of the real thing so you can still look cool but with none of the stats.

    why would we still care about content that we've done 100+ times already and we are so overpowered for that it's completley trivial at this point?

    Hardly anyone did Naxx, which is why they brought it back.
    I don't get if bale is for or against my point of why they make old raids easier when new raids come out.

  • PikaPuffPikaPuff Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Sara Lynn wrote: »
    I love the walrus men

    they are so cute

    I want one

    I hear panderans are the new race in that BC xpac coming out. I can't wait

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    PikaPuff wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    Balefuego wrote: »
    PikaPuff wrote: »
    Um. Do you guys even care about the 60 content anymore? what is it? Molten Core, right? Do you guys care about working hard for hours and hours to get an item that sucks compared to the 70 content, and now 80 content?

    No one cares about those crap items anymore, so why not make it easier so the other 80% can check out the place?

    or better yet, how about they keep the instance the same, and upon entering you can choose to do an easy mode version, which has none of the drops, or fake drops which are unequippable item versions of the real thing. or or or 0 stat versions of the real thing so you can still look cool but with none of the stats.

    why would we still care about content that we've done 100+ times already and we are so overpowered for that it's completley trivial at this point?

    Hardly anyone did Naxx, which is why they brought it back.
    I don't get if bale is for or against my point of why they make old raids easier when new raids come out.

    The same reason why a TV that costs 1000 dollars now will probably cost half of that a year down the road.

    bar-cc-1.jpg
  • jwalkjwalk Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
  • edited November 2008
    I have never played WoW and nothing I have ever read about it inclines me to do so.

    chevy.jpgsteve.jpgmartin.jpg
  • SilmarilSilmaril Mr Ha Ha Hapless. Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I have never played WoW and nothing I have ever read about it inclines me to do so.

    ding ding ding.


    Me too.

    twispandcatsbysigsmall.jpg
  • Kuribo's ShoeKuribo's Shoe Kuribo's Stocking North PoleRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Bioware is making an MMO.

    I have to say that every once in awhile so it'll sink in.

    My life will be over. Not that there was much there to begin with, but damn.

    xmassig2.gif
This discussion has been closed.