Best shmups ever?

RainbowDespair

Geometry Wars 2 is the best shmup of all time, but if you must have more defined levels than that, Gradius V will do.

Sixfortyfive

tetsuoZshima wrote: »

Sixfortyfive wrote: »

Radiant Silvergun makes a good first impression but falls apart if you try to play it seriously. The scoring/leveling system is retarded. At least the final boss is worth the price of admission by himself.

wah... huh? what do you even mean by this? it's a puzzle game the way ikaruga is... only higher scores = better weapons.. each their own, of course, but I certainly wouldn't call it retarded

RSG and Ikaruga are different enough to the point where neither can replace the other, and both games have plenty of things to like about them. RSG is an absolute mess of a game in comparison though, and it is clearly inferior for two reasons:

1) In order to keep yourself from being overpowered in RSG, you must play for score to some extent.
2) Playing RSG for score fucking sucks.

RSG's weapons level up according to your score, so in order to keep yourself from being overpowered by the bosses in the later half of the game, you really have to focus on scoring. RSG's chaining system is more complex and more annoying than Ikaruga's: 3 colors of enemies, and you have to actually skip lots of stuff at points in order to keep your chain intact. (In Ikaruga you can still destroy about 99% of everything and keep chaining.) In RSG, you get point bonuses for destroying every part of the boss before destroying its base, and sometimes it just takes for-fucking-ever to kill off a boss in this manner, and it isn't any more fun. (In Ikaruga, only one boss yields more points if you stall, and doing so is a [vidurl= mission[/vidurl].) RSG's scoring system is also bogged down by stupid things like grazing and just leads to more stalling overall.

Watch any RSG superplay and it's easy to see how the scoring system gets in the way of the rest of the game. The player will skip enemies instead of shooting them, and often times he'll stall against bosses and have to graze walls and other obstacles in order to scrape more points together. It's boring to watch and even more boring to do yourself. Then compare it to Ikaruga superplays where the player just blasts the crap out of everything that stands in his way in the most spectacular fashion. Even if you think Ikaruga's scoring system is lame and would just prefer to fuck around instead of going for the gold, at least Ikaruga doesn't force you into playing for score to level your weapons like RSG does. It's no contest for me.

FCD

Axelay. Oh, how I love Axelay. My absolute favorite shmup for the SNES. I would do terrible things for a portable version of it. Dark, unspeakable things.

Mechanical

Sorenson wrote: »

WIckedkarma wrote: »

mars matrix is fantastic

EDIT: OH GOD AND TYRIAN, YES. Best shooter on the PC, PERIOD. There's also Raptor: Call of the Shadows, though it's much more traditional than Tyrian.

Now give me my damn Arcade ports, Microsoft.

Behemoth

R-Type Final.

Most emotional shmup I've ever played, and I love the ridiculous number of ships, even if it takes forever to unlock them all.

FCD

Deceased Crab did a fun Let's Play of Tyrian. I should finish watching it sometime.

tetsuoZshima

Sixfortyfive wrote: »

tetsuoZshima wrote: »

Sixfortyfive wrote: »

Radiant Silvergun makes a good first impression but falls apart if you try to play it seriously. The scoring/leveling system is retarded. At least the final boss is worth the price of admission by himself.

wah... huh? what do you even mean by this? it's a puzzle game the way ikaruga is... only higher scores = better weapons.. each their own, of course, but I certainly wouldn't call it retarded

RSG and Ikaruga are different enough to the point where neither can replace the other, and both games have plenty of things to like about them. RSG is an absolute mess of a game in comparison though, and it is clearly inferior for two reasons:

1) In order to keep yourself from being overpowered in RSG, you must play for score to some extent.
2) Playing RSG for score fucking sucks.

RSG's weapons level up according to your score, so in order to keep yourself from being overpowered by the bosses in the later half of the game, you really have to focus on scoring. RSG's chaining system is more complex and more annoying than Ikaruga's: 3 colors of enemies, and you have to actually skip lots of stuff at points in order to keep your chain intact. (In Ikaruga you can still destroy about 99% of everything and keep chaining.) In RSG, you get point bonuses for destroying every part of the boss before destroying its base, and sometimes it just takes for-fucking-ever to kill off a boss in this manner, and it isn't any more fun. (In Ikaruga, only one boss yields more points if you stall, and doing so is a [vidurl= mission[/vidurl].) RSG's scoring system is also bogged down by stupid things like grazing and just leads to more stalling overall.

Watch any RSG superplay and it's easy to see how the scoring system gets in the way of the rest of the game. The player will skip enemies instead of shooting them, and often times he'll stall against bosses and have to graze walls and other obstacles in order to scrape more points together. It's boring to watch and even more boring to do yourself. Then compare it to Ikaruga superplays where the player just blasts the crap out of everything that stands in his way in the most spectacular fashion. Even if you think Ikaruga's scoring system is lame and would just prefer to fuck around instead of going for the gold, at least Ikaruga doesn't force you into playing for score to level your weapons like RSG does. It's no contest for me.

well, as I said in my original post, I prefer Ikaruga; and while I still think RSG fairs better than "retarded" and actually like it; you certainly did explain your position...something quite rare on a message board.. I'll concede this one.

Galcian's Son

Not many people seem to have played them, but out of my rather extensive shmup collection there are two games that get the most playtime by far.

Under Defeat - A vertical-scrolling helicoptor shmup released late in the Dreamcast's lifespan with excellent graphics and a simple, intuitive weapon system.

G. Darius - PS1. The "G" stands for Gigantic, as in they took the bosses from the old darius and made them screen filling. You know the huge beams of death that most shmup bosses fire? In this game your beam 'counteracts' theirs, absorbs it, and makes yours even huger. Awesome.

Funguy McAids

I live in China and one day i bought a ps2 compilation of random shmups.

They were all garbage.

Except for a magical gem that I was bedazzled to experience: GRADIUS V

Gradius V is the most impressive and frantic fun shmup that I've ever had the honor to behold. The game is just perfectly polished in every aspect. The controls are tighter than a nun; responsive with d-pad or stick. The weapon selections are all very fun and make different encounters and play-throughs unique and exciting. The sound on my loud stereo system was booming with perfectly moody techno music to cruise through all very original and creative levels and bosses.

Hard mode in this game is redonkulous. I have never seen so many bullety-things on screen in a game before, and quite frankly it terrified me.

Gradius V man. Go find Gradius V and play it many times.

Viscountalpha

Mechanical wrote: »

Sorenson wrote: »

WIckedkarma wrote: »

mars matrix is fantastic

EDIT: OH GOD AND TYRIAN, YES. Best shooter on the PC, PERIOD. There's also Raptor: Call of the Shadows, though it's much more traditional than Tyrian.

Now give me my damn Arcade ports, Microsoft.

All of those need arcade ports. Yes. We need them


NEEEEEDDD THEEEMMMMMM

Sixfortyfive

Gradius V never clicked with me (I'm not fond of the series' mechanics or horizontal shooters in general to begin with), but I can appreciate it for what it is. It is very well-designed, and even though I don't particularly enjoy playing it, I do enjoy watching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEh9x9pIXLAhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xEedRScDDQhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDdFado9LOs

RainbowDespair

I would kill for an XBLA version of Gradius V.

Bartholamue

That's honestly the game that sold me on a PS2

Aroduc

piL wrote: »

Just to explain what Twinkle Star Sprites is, it's a shump where you face off against another shump player. Each player has their own shump screen where enemys come from the top towards the player. In a puzzle-fighter fashion, linking combos of kills will launch attacks at your enemy. Attacking the bullets they send at you will send special counters. There's a bar you can charge to unleash a 'boss attack' across the screen at your enemy.

[url]http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=omczIBZiE0M[/url]

Fun story. My search for something else like Twinkle Star Sprites led me to Phantasmagoria of Flower View and into the greater Touhou consortium. I haven't been liking the recent ones all that much though. They just seem a lot less overall elegant. Imperishable Night and Perfect Cherry Blossom are still excellent though.

And if you're going to bitch about challenge, stay the fuck away from the Seihou series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppxcmsXfRt0

I've been enamored of the AQLoop games as of late (TWilight INSanity and TWilight refrAIN), but they're definitely a lot simpler all around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dElq8znp4Uc

1ddqd

Star Fox, anyone? I mean, this was one of my favorite 3D-ish shoot'em ups of the modern day. Of course, I haven't really bothered to play anything else.

Also, Metal Slug. I consider 1 and 2 to be the best of the franchise (and also the only ones I've played).

Viscountalpha

RainbowDespair wrote: »

I would kill for an XBLA version of Gradius V.

The problem with this is, they would strip it down too much to really be anything like the original gradius V. I would love to see it ported to the 360 but thats not going to happen.

Don't get me wrong, I would buy it in a heartbeat even if it was just a gradius V boss rush.

OremLK

Seconding/thirding/whatever Raptor and Tyrian, to break up this Japan-fest.

Mmm, DOS.

RichardTauber

Xenon 2 was pretty good.

piL

Hey Aroduc, did you ever find something that had a split screen thing like Twinkle Star Sprites? It's not necessarily the intrinsic polish, the depth of difficulty, or the design I like about TWSS . I'm really just a huge fan of the one major mechanic, and I really wonder why I haven't seen it elsewhere, since it seems to me to be just about the only way to do a vs shump, other than scoreboards and stuff.

Raijin Quickfoot

Guardian Legend is fantastic. I wish I still had an NES and this game.

Shadowfire

Viscountalpha wrote: »

RainbowDespair wrote: »

I would kill for an XBLA version of Gradius V.

The problem with this is, they would strip it down too much to really be anything like the original gradius V. I would love to see it ported to the 360 but thats not going to happen.

Don't get me wrong, I would buy it in a heartbeat even if it was just a gradius V boss rush.

Why would they have to strip it down? I mean.... that doesn't seem like it makes a lot of sense.

slash000

Ikaruga
Gradius V
Radiant Silvergun
Darius Gaiden
Parodius
RType series
Zanac
Thunder Force III and IV
Life Force
Gradius 1, 3
DonDonPachi
Touhou's stuff (perfect cherry blossom, et al)
Blazing Star
Raiden
Raiden II
Einhander
rRootage
Warning Forever
Mars Matrix
Battle Garrega
1942, 1943, 1943 kai
UN Squadron
Raptor
Galaga
Gun Bird
Giga wing
Legendary Wings
Castle of Shikigami 2
Bangai-O (if that counts)
Geometry Wars (series)

thats all I got

Dangerous

Gigawing, progear and aero fighters 2 are high on my list. I love Ikaruga and RSG but suck so terribly bad at them that I can't get very far on my own.

ArcticXC

So uh.. has anyone bothered with Thunder Force VI yet? I was thinking about giving it a go but I've never played any of the other TF games and I've heard some pretty disparaging things about it.

Gage

I enjoyed R-Type Delta for PS1 a great deal more than R-Type Final.

..but Einhander is a greater shooter even still.

ArcticXC

If anyone wants a cheap but good shmup, Taito Legends 2 has Darius Gaiden and can be found for like $5-10.

Zombie Nirvana

I liked that Dreamcast one, maybe Gun Bird 2, I forget I haven't had my Dreamcast in a long time. I remember it seemed pretty easy though.

Ikaruga and Gradius V go without saying and are a little more challenging. But we're all saying it anyway, just in case.

Djiem

Zombie Nirvana wrote: »

I liked that Dreamcast one, maybe Gun Bird 2, I forget I haven't had my Dreamcast in a long time. I remember it seemed pretty easy though.

Ikaruga and Gradius V go without saying and are a little more challenging. But we're all saying it anyway, just in case.

Yes, but both have infinite play and easy mode if you're desperate.

Zombie Nirvana

Never knew Ikaruga had infinite play.

Djiem

Zombie Nirvana wrote: »

Never knew Ikaruga had infinite play.

For each hour you play the game, you get an additional credit. At one point, you just get infinite play.

RainbowDespair

Has anyone tried Söldner-X: Himmelsstürmer yet? It's a PC shmup that you can buy off of Play-Asia for $30 these days. It certainly looks plenty pretty.

Djiem

RainbowDespair wrote: »

Has anyone tried Söldner-X: Himmelsstürmer yet? It's a PC shmup that you can buy off of Play-Asia for $30 these days. It certainly looks plenty pretty.

Apparently this is coming for the PS3. Which is region-free. It does look great.

Press Release of it coming to PS3

Smashism

Yeah, einhander was a totally from left field coming from squaresoft.
What a great game though, I played the ever loving crap out of it no matter how big my library got.
The whole weapon switching thing, and it being in psuedo 3D was just amazing to me.

Aroduc

piL wrote: »

Hey Aroduc, did you ever find something that had a split screen thing like Twinkle Star Sprites? It's not necessarily the intrinsic polish, the depth of difficulty, or the design I like about TWSS . I'm really just a huge fan of the one major mechanic, and I really wonder why I haven't seen it elsewhere, since it seems to me to be just about the only way to do a vs shump, other than scoreboards and stuff.

PoFV, like I said.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t6LylLAJt0

There was also a TSS2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9hmp7iCkAY

Kanossyu also probably counts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S86aTPdq9og

Logicow

OremLK wrote: »

Seconding/thirding/whatever Raptor and Tyrian, to break up this Japan-fest.

Mmm, DOS.

Thirding Tyrian. It is awesome. Japanese shooters get old fast. Tyrian is just fresh.

Djiem

I've checked some videos of Tyrian (never played it), and it looks just like any other average shooter (not that this is a bad thing). What makes it so great or stand out of the crowd?
(I do love the music)

Sorenson

Overkill. Ship/Weapon/Option/Shield/Generator Upgrade/Customization. Catchy music, as noted. Crazy-frantic action on the highest difficulties. A hit system that understands that asking people to be absolutly perfect always is sometimes just stupid. Zinglon. Scorched Earth hidden minigame. Co-op.

Spoiler:

BEER!

EDIT: And being so chock-full of sci-fi nonsense that it sounds like something out of a Hitchhiker's novel didn't hurt it, either.

Viscountalpha

The one thing unique about tyrian was the armor regeneration on some of the ships. In exchange for new armor, you lost all of your shields.

I have fond memories of raptor:call of the shadows too.

Kate of Lokys

No love for Strikers 1945 II? I played the *shit* out of that thing at the old local arcade downtown, 'way back in the halcyon days of my misspent high school youth.

Also, Raptor was so awesome, even though I only ever had the shareware version.

piL

Aroduc wrote: »

piL wrote: »

Hey Aroduc, did you ever find something that had a split screen thing like Twinkle Star Sprites? It's not necessarily the intrinsic polish, the depth of difficulty, or the design I like about TWSS . I'm really just a huge fan of the one major mechanic, and I really wonder why I haven't seen it elsewhere, since it seems to me to be just about the only way to do a vs shump, other than scoreboards and stuff.

PoFV, like I said.

There was also a TSS2.

Kanossyu also probably counts.

Oh, I just kind of thought it was another one of all those Touhou games I see all the time--that's actually really cool, thanks!