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Home Theater? In A BOX?! (onkyo)

VariableVariable Ted HitlerStroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
Alright, I have a PS3 and a Samsung 56" DLP, but I need some sound.

Now, I mostly read that HTiB is not the way to go, but after reading some reviews about this (Onkyo HT-S9100-THX) I thought hey, I've been procrastinating on doing audio research because there's SO much to learn and SO many opinions, why not just take the simple route?

I am 99% sure this will do everything I need, this thread is to a) make sure and b) get some opinions. This could be general discussion as well as I haven't seen anything for Home Theatres in here (sorry if I missed something)

How does 7.1 get set up? I've never seen one. I'm looking to get the best audio out of my PS3 for the price (it's on Newegg for $799 right now) and I know Onkyo is supposed to be a trusted brand.

Thanks folks, discuss away.

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«13

Posts

  • minor incidentminor incident a crow, a scavenger type Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    That looks like a very nice HTiB. It covers my personal checklist pretty well. Lots of HDMI inputs, good power.

    However, if you happen to be looking for something a little less massive and room-conquering, consider this:

    http://www.amazon.com/Sony-HTCT100-Sound-Bar-Sub-Woofer/dp/B0015HS1HQ

    This thing is a BEAST. And in a room where running wires is a huge pain, this thing is a breeze, sounds amazing, and has lots of inputs for something in its price range.

    Steam: minor incident || PSN: inter-punct
  • FaricazyFaricazy Registered User
    edited December 2008
    As far as I know Onkyos make the only HTiB's worth buying.

    The one you're looking at is obviously very nice. Find out if the receiver can actually group all the video connections going into it into a single HDMI output or if it's only passthrough, though.

  • sir_pinch-a-loafsir_pinch-a-loaf Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I got the Onkyo HT-S3100, and I've been extremely happy with it. I actually bought it refurbished from Onkyo direct and saved about $130. The one you are looking at is in stock as a refurb right now for $699, plus an extra 10% off when you sign up for "Club Onkyo" (basically, make an account for the store). Signing up also gives you 10 Onkyo points good for $10 off.

    I will say that I had two problems with the refurb. 1) They gave me the wrong remote. It worked well enough but I had to change inputs on the receiver itself. They replaced this at no charge. 2) One of my speakers was busted when I received it. I dicked around trying to overlook it with receiver settings and whatnot, but playing Dead Space made me realized how fucked it was. Finally, 6 weeks or so after receiving it, I called about it. Had to send it to the repair center. It was replaced for free in about 10 days, but I had to pay to ship it there (about $7).

    TL;DR: Caveat emptor, but I'd recommend getting a refurb.

    cobra_cobretti.jpg
  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    HTiBs are great for just getting a good starting point without a lot of research and multiple purchases. When I got my current (and first) set up, I went with an Onkyo receiver and a set of 7.1 Onkyo speakers. It was only two orders and according to reviews, I got better product for a better price (I suppose I saved some cash here by not getting the usually included DVD player). I had 7.1 wired in our last house, but when we moved I only set up a 5.1. Maybe you can get a better receive (or speakers) if you go with only 5.1 stuff. I sure woukd.
    You have no need for a 7.1. Not only is there so little source material out there for it, but the only set ups that get good use out of matrixing into a 7.1 signal are very large rooms with a lot of seating.
    Do not follow minor incidents advice and get a sound bar. They are cool, and I guess some people don't want to deal with wires, but they don't come close when it comes to good sound reproduction.

    Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
  • RuddurBallRuddurBall Registered User
    edited December 2008
    You have no need for a 7.1.

    I just bought the Onkyo S6100 HTIB http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=HT-S6100&class=Systems&p=i and I love it, and I only use a 5.1 setup in my theather room. I used the two extra speakers plus a wireless system to set up a nice two speaker alternate system in another room that the reciever controlls defn worth it.

  • minor incidentminor incident a crow, a scavenger type Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Do not follow minor incidents advice and get a sound bar. They are cool, and I guess some people don't want to deal with wires, but they don't come close when it comes to good sound reproduction.

    They don't offer surround sound, no, but they're 1000% better than TV speakers and work great in small homes. If my living room wasn't so small, I'd go with a 5.1 setup, but as it is I can't see anyone being disappointed in a good sound bar.

    Steam: minor incident || PSN: inter-punct
  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Oh, one more thing. Adding a receiver to your set up will give you a lot more control at the cost of being much more complicated. Sure you'll know what to do with those three or four remotes, but at that point you should really consider getting a Logitech Harmon universal remote (the refurbed 880s on Amazon are $75, a great value).

    Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
  • minor incidentminor incident a crow, a scavenger type Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Oh, one more thing. Adding a receiver to your set up will give you a lot more control at the cost of being much more complicated. Sure you'll know what to do with those three or four remotes, but at that point you should really consider getting a Logitech Harmon universal remote (the refurbed 880s on Amazon are $75, a great value).

    This is great advice. I bought a Harmony One remote on an open-box closeout kind of deal for around $60. Total steal and this thing is amazing. Even my wife loves it. You can add custom graphics for buttons for different channels which she loves, and you can tweak pretty much anything like the timing delay between "button presses" in macros, which is great.

    Plus, the remote feels great in hand, and has a great little docking station. Logitech's PC/Mac based setup program, while hideous, is really easy to use and get programmed, too.

    Steam: minor incident || PSN: inter-punct
  • RonenRonen Registered User
    edited December 2008
    Chiming in with more Onkyo experience. I got their cheapest HTiB back before I had any HD devices in my house (so old they don't even list it anymore, even on the store. It was about $180 for the refurb system at the time.

    I've been extremely happy with it so far. So happy that now that I want HD video switching, I'm going straight back to Onkyo for it. I'm looking at the TX-SR506 and just keeping the speakers and sub I already have.
    This is great advice. I bought a Harmony One remote on an open-box closeout kind of deal for around $60. Total steal and this thing is amazing. Even my wife loves it. You can add custom graphics for buttons for different channels which she loves, and you can tweak pretty much anything like the timing delay between "button presses" in macros, which is great.

    Plus, the remote feels great in hand, and has a great little docking station. Logitech's PC/Mac based setup program, while hideous, is really easy to use and get programmed, too.

    This is also a great suggestion. I just got my first Harmony remote (the 880) and it's a dream compared to the old "four remotes for four devices" setup. Totally worth the price of admission.

    Go play MOTHER3

    or Brawl. 4854.6102.3895 Name: NU..
  • McClyMcCly Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Does anyone know of any other good HTiB brands like Sony or Panasonic? I'm trying to not spend too much. I've been looking at this one

    http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8724357&type=product&id=1200703057877

    But any other suggestions are greatly appreciated (especially if they're from the BB website.)

    kbellchewiesig.jpg
  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Oh, one more thing. Adding a receiver to your set up will give you a lot more control at the cost of being much more complicated. Sure you'll know what to do with those three or four remotes, but at that point you should really consider getting a Logitech Harmon universal remote (the refurbed 880s on Amazon are $75, a great value).

    This is great advice. I bought a Harmony One remote on an open-box closeout kind of deal for around $60. Total steal and this thing is amazing. Even my wife loves it. You can add custom graphics for buttons for different channels which she loves, and you can tweak pretty much anything like the timing delay between "button presses" in macros, which is great.

    Plus, the remote feels great in hand, and has a great little docking station. Logitech's PC/Mac based setup program, while hideous, is really easy to use and get programmed, too.
    You got a One for $60? Holy shit is that a steal. For those not aware, these models go for $175 at the cheapest. All of the Harmony remotes do the same stuff with the same software (the 1000 aside). The different models change the screen, but layout, and battery.

    Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
  • DarianDarian Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Refurb Harmony 520 remotes are available for $45 right now from www.tanga.com; you can get up to three of them while supplies last.

  • minor incidentminor incident a crow, a scavenger type Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Oh, one more thing. Adding a receiver to your set up will give you a lot more control at the cost of being much more complicated. Sure you'll know what to do with those three or four remotes, but at that point you should really consider getting a Logitech Harmon universal remote (the refurbed 880s on Amazon are $75, a great value).

    This is great advice. I bought a Harmony One remote on an open-box closeout kind of deal for around $60. Total steal and this thing is amazing. Even my wife loves it. You can add custom graphics for buttons for different channels which she loves, and you can tweak pretty much anything like the timing delay between "button presses" in macros, which is great.

    Plus, the remote feels great in hand, and has a great little docking station. Logitech's PC/Mac based setup program, while hideous, is really easy to use and get programmed, too.
    You got a One for $60? Holy shit is that a steal. For those not aware, these models go for $175 at the cheapest. All of the Harmony remotes do the same stuff with the same software (the 1000 aside). The different models change the screen, but layout, and battery.

    Yeah, I was gonna go with the Xbox one (which was like $90 new), but I saw this in the "open box, might be broken" bin and gave it a shot. Worked perfectly and I love it. Like I said, even my wife loves it, which means we can keep the receiver, which otherwise would not have flown.

    Steam: minor incident || PSN: inter-punct
  • VariableVariable Ted Hitler Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I'll definitely plan on getting a Logitech remote. They always looked cool but I never quite needed one, thanks for that.

    I understand that 7.1 might not be something everyone needs but honestly I want it and if I can get it I'm going to. I don't feel like I'm paying too much just for that feature, personally, but I do appreciate the advice.

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  • OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I don't think you can really go wrong with an Onkyo HTIB.

    currently playing LoL: Polymath
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  • cctex823cctex823 Registered User
    edited December 2008
    RuddurBall wrote: »
    You have no need for a 7.1.

    I just bought the Onkyo S6100 HTIB http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=HT-S6100&class=Systems&p=i and I love it, and I only use a 5.1 setup in my theather room. I used the two extra speakers plus a wireless system to set up a nice two speaker alternate system in another room that the reciever controlls defn worth it.

    If you plan on using it with a PS3, you can forget about HD audio. The S6100 and below only support HDMI passthru, the receiver will not process the audio via HDMI. The most you can do is A) send a separate (optical) line from the PS3 or B) run the same line from your TV. And in either case, the audio will not be HD.

    datnguyensig1.jpg
  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Variable wrote: »
    I'll definitely plan on getting a Logitech remote. They always looked cool but I never quite needed one, thanks for that.

    I understand that 7.1 might not be something everyone needs but honestly I want it and if I can get it I'm going to. I don't feel like I'm paying too much just for that feature, personally, but I do appreciate the advice.

    Thats fine of course. Like I said, I had a 7.1 setup in my last place. It still works, I just had two more speakers hanging from the ceiling.

    3_master.gif
    My couch is against a wall now, so I couldn't really do a 7.1 if I wanted to.

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  • Rigor MortisRigor Mortis Registered User
    edited December 2008
    cctex823 wrote: »
    RuddurBall wrote: »
    You have no need for a 7.1.

    I just bought the Onkyo S6100 HTIB http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=HT-S6100&class=Systems&p=i and I love it, and I only use a 5.1 setup in my theather room. I used the two extra speakers plus a wireless system to set up a nice two speaker alternate system in another room that the reciever controlls defn worth it.

    If you plan on using it with a PS3, you can forget about HD audio. The S6100 and below only support HDMI passthru, the receiver will not process the audio via HDMI. The most you can do is A) send a separate (optical) line from the PS3 or B) run the same line from your TV. And in either case, the audio will not be HD.

    I doubt HD audio is worth worrying about. Tests have shown that human beings can't really distinguish between CD quality and anything higher. (You'll also notice DVD-A, HDCD, and SACD never took off) And even if they could, the speaker construction would still be a far weaker link in the sound reproduction chain than superZOMG audio resolution.


    (On the other hand, it is easier to properly master high-res audio which may result in superior sound. This is a bit of a red herring though.)

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited December 2008
    I doubt HD audio is worth worrying about. Tests have shown that human beings can't really distinguish between CD quality and anything higher. (You'll also notice DVD-A, HDCD, and SACD never took off) And even if they could, the speaker construction would still be a far weaker link in the sound reproduction chain than superZOMG audio resolution.


    (On the other hand, it is easier to properly master high-res audio which may result in superior sound. This is a bit of a red herring though.)

    Well, the thing about TrueHD is that it's a lossless audio format. Human beings can distinguish between lossy and lossless, though the difference is more subtle than, say, the difference between DPL and 5.1. It's a nice thing to have, but it's not going be a huge deal to most people.

    Also, that Onkyo HTiB looks nice, and this from someone who hates HTiB. The receiver looks solid, and the system is incrementally upgradable, which is important.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

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  • Dark ShroudDark Shroud Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    cctex823 wrote: »
    RuddurBall wrote: »
    You have no need for a 7.1.

    I just bought the Onkyo S6100 HTIB http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=HT-S6100&class=Systems&p=i and I love it, and I only use a 5.1 setup in my theather room. I used the two extra speakers plus a wireless system to set up a nice two speaker alternate system in another room that the reciever controlls defn worth it.

    If you plan on using it with a PS3, you can forget about HD audio. The S6100 and below only support HDMI passthru, the receiver will not process the audio via HDMI. The most you can do is A) send a separate (optical) line from the PS3 or B) run the same line from your TV. And in either case, the audio will not be HD.

    Isn't this fixable by setting the PS3 to output LPCM audio instead of Bitstreaming? In fact Dolby Labs has recommended setting the PS3 to output LPCM to save the Receiver the hassle since the Cell will most likely be stronger than the receiver anyway. Of course if you want to get 7.1 out of the Optical Link you'll have to set it for LPCM anyway since the chip used for the Optical link is limited to 5.1 Bitstreaming.

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited December 2008
    cctex823 wrote: »
    RuddurBall wrote: »
    You have no need for a 7.1.

    I just bought the Onkyo S6100 HTIB http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=HT-S6100&class=Systems&p=i and I love it, and I only use a 5.1 setup in my theather room. I used the two extra speakers plus a wireless system to set up a nice two speaker alternate system in another room that the reciever controlls defn worth it.

    If you plan on using it with a PS3, you can forget about HD audio. The S6100 and below only support HDMI passthru, the receiver will not process the audio via HDMI. The most you can do is A) send a separate (optical) line from the PS3 or B) run the same line from your TV. And in either case, the audio will not be HD.

    Isn't this fixable by setting the PS3 to output LPCM audio instead of Bitstreaming? In fact Dolby Labs has recommended setting the PS3 to output LPCM to save the Receiver the hassle since the Cell will most likely be stronger than the receiver anyway. Of course if you want to get 7.1 out of the Optical Link you'll have to set it for LPCM anyway since the chip used for the Optical link is limited to 5.1 Bitstreaming.

    Yup. The PS3 decodes the TrueHD audio, and can output it as PCM. In the past, this was your only option, as the PS3 couldn't pass the native TrueHD audio via bitstream without downconverting to 5.1, which meant you couldn't let your receiver handle the TrueHD decoding even if you wanted to (though the Cell would likely be a better TrueHD decoder than all but the most high-end receivers anyway, so I don't see why you'd want to). This may have changed since then; not sure.

    So yeah, just run HDMI from the PS3 to the receiver and utilize the HDMI passthrough on the receiver, and you'll have TrueHD audio and 1080p video.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • VariableVariable Ted Hitler Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I doubt HD audio is worth worrying about. Tests have shown that human beings can't really distinguish between CD quality and anything higher. (You'll also notice DVD-A, HDCD, and SACD never took off) And even if they could, the speaker construction would still be a far weaker link in the sound reproduction chain than superZOMG audio resolution.


    (On the other hand, it is easier to properly master high-res audio which may result in superior sound. This is a bit of a red herring though.)

    Well, the thing about TrueHD is that it's a lossless audio format. Human beings can distinguish between lossy and lossless, though the difference is more subtle than, say, the difference between DPL and 5.1. It's a nice thing to have, but it's not going be a huge deal to most people.

    Also, that Onkyo HTiB looks nice, and this from someone who hates HTiB. The receiver looks solid, and the system is incrementally upgradable, which is important.

    that's what got me interested. the blu-ray board I go to just expanded the forums and added a htib section which I thought was odd since 100% of audio enthusiast things I've read in the last 3 years said to avoid them, period. then I heard avs was into it and I was pretty much sold. so glad I happened to check when I did.

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  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Of course if you want to get 7.1 out of the Optical Link you'll have to set it for LPCM anyway since the chip used for the Optical link is limited to 5.1 Bitstreaming.

    My understanding is that PS3 doesn't do multi-channel audio (just stereo) when outputting LPCM over SPDIF, and the only way you can get that is to do LPCM over HDMI to the receiver.

    Or am I misreading you?

  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I'm pretty up on my terminology, but what the hell are LPCM and SPDIF?

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  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Linear PCM (Pulse Code Modulation)

    SPDIF (Sony/Philips Digital Interconnect Format ) = TosLink or Optical connection

  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    So what carries a PCM?

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  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    If you pass LPCM via SPDIF you will get 2 channel lossless audio sent to your receiver. You may then set your receiver to matrix these 2 channels to play out of your 5.1/6.1/7.1 speaker setup. You can get true multichannel audio sent to your receiver via SPDIF if you bitstream, but it won't be lossless; the PS3 is sending the audio over to the receiver to be decoded (Dolby DTS) instead of decoding the audio itself as it does in LPCM.

    If you pass LPCM via HDMI, then decoded multichannel (5.1/6.1/7.1) lossless audio can be sent to your receiver (provided your source material is encoded in 5.1/6.1/7.1 HD audio format). The PS3 is decoding the audio and HDMI has sufficient bandwith to pass the decoded multichannel output to the receiver to be played out the speakers.

    This is summarized info with regards to LPCM over SPDIF or HDMI on a PS3. This information is of particular interest to new PS3 owners using legacy audio systems (non-HDMI) and a lot of discussion can be found over at AVSForum by searching for permutations of the following terms: HMDI, Optical, SPDIF, PS3, LPCM and Bitstream.


    Edit: To get lossless audio from the PS3 your receiver would also need to be able to receive PCM (or LPCM or MPCM as these terms appear interchangeable w/r/to HD audio) over HDMI; apparently there are HDMI receivers that cannot receive decoded lossless audio over HDMI. There are some BluRay players that will Bitstream the lossless codecs to a receiever that can then decode the audio for lossless playback. The information in my post is specific to the PS3. I can't really comment on other HD playback setups as the PS3 is all I got.

  • Dark ShroudDark Shroud Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Djeet wrote: »
    Of course if you want to get 7.1 out of the Optical Link you'll have to set it for LPCM anyway since the chip used for the Optical link is limited to 5.1 Bitstreaming.

    My understanding is that PS3 doesn't do multi-channel audio (just stereo) when outputting LPCM over SPDIF, and the only way you can get that is to do LPCM over HDMI to the receiver.

    Or am I misreading you?

    It was a misread because I way over simplified it in a way that isn't quite correct for the average person. Because the average person will in no way understand the limits of the Optical on the PS3 in regards to LPCM & Bitstreaming.

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited December 2008
    Djeet wrote: »
    Edit: To get lossless audio from the PS3 your receiver would also need to be able to receive PCM (or LPCM or MPCM as these terms appear interchangeable w/r/to HD audio) over HDMI; apparently there are HDMI receivers that cannot receive decoded lossless audio over HDMI. There are some BluRay players that will Bitstream the lossless codecs to a receiever that can then decode the audio for lossless playback. The information in my post is specific to the PS3. I can't really comment on other HD playback setups as the PS3 is all I got.

    Ah, see, this is of interest to me, because I may soon be in the market for a receiver that would allow me to use TrueHD. Is there an easy way to discern HDMI-compatible receivers that can receive decoded, lossless audio over HDMI from those that can't?

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  • Dark ShroudDark Shroud Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Djeet wrote: »
    Edit: To get lossless audio from the PS3 your receiver would also need to be able to receive PCM (or LPCM or MPCM as these terms appear interchangeable w/r/to HD audio) over HDMI; apparently there are HDMI receivers that cannot receive decoded lossless audio over HDMI. There are some BluRay players that will Bitstream the lossless codecs to a receiever that can then decode the audio for lossless playback. The information in my post is specific to the PS3. I can't really comment on other HD playback setups as the PS3 is all I got.

    Ah, see, this is of interest to me, because I may soon be in the market for a receiver that would allow me to use TrueHD. Is there an easy way to discern HDMI-compatible receivers that can receive decoded, lossless audio over HDMI from those that can't?

    It all depends on the receiver and the chips used. You're going to have to read detailed reports. Basically you'll want to hit up the AVS forums and mention your player of choice. All I have is a PS3 and I love it to death.

  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    If you want a bulleted marketing term to search for, well that might be difficult, because without looking at the manuals for the receivers in question it can be kind of a guess. I don't think this is out of intentional obfuscation, but rather that the issue is specific to using trying to get lossless audio out of a PS3 within a reasonable budget. No doubt if you spend $texas it will have the capability. The last post in this thread sounds the best "MPCM over HDMI 1.1 repeater (or greater)." However the poster implies that any receiver that can decode lossless codecs Bitstreamed over HDMI would by default have the MPCM over HDMI capability, but I'm not sure that's true.

    This thread has some good info but it does have like 2700 posts, the OP also seems to indicate HDMI 1.1 would be sufficient or a "Level 4" or greater receiver (as defined by the OP).

    This thread attempted to deal with the issue directly, but it's old and doesn't include newer receivers.

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited December 2008
    So basically it's extremely convoluted and complicated and will require lots of research to make sure I get what I need.

    This isn't entirely a bad thing, as I love doing research on new components. :)

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

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  • VariableVariable Ted Hitler Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    so... will the htib I posted do that? I understood that it would and I hope I'm not wrong.

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  • PheezerPheezer Registered User, ClubPA
    edited December 2008
    Do not follow minor incidents advice and get a sound bar. They are cool, and I guess some people don't want to deal with wires, but they don't come close when it comes to good sound reproduction.

    They don't offer surround sound, no, but they're 1000% better than TV speakers and work great in small homes. If my living room wasn't so small, I'd go with a 5.1 setup, but as it is I can't see anyone being disappointed in a good sound bar.

    They also lick ass when it comes to proper stereo imaging.

    If you're just going to listen to 128 kbps MP3s and you don't know or care about how your music COULD sound with a good stereo configuration, I guess whatever. Someone has to buy them.

    Personally I could never actually recommend one.

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  • PheezerPheezer Registered User, ClubPA
    edited December 2008
    cctex823 wrote: »
    RuddurBall wrote: »
    You have no need for a 7.1.

    I just bought the Onkyo S6100 HTIB http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=HT-S6100&class=Systems&p=i and I love it, and I only use a 5.1 setup in my theather room. I used the two extra speakers plus a wireless system to set up a nice two speaker alternate system in another room that the reciever controlls defn worth it.

    If you plan on using it with a PS3, you can forget about HD audio. The S6100 and below only support HDMI passthru, the receiver will not process the audio via HDMI. The most you can do is A) send a separate (optical) line from the PS3 or B) run the same line from your TV. And in either case, the audio will not be HD.

    I doubt HD audio is worth worrying about. Tests have shown that human beings can't really distinguish between CD quality and anything higher. (You'll also notice DVD-A, HDCD, and SACD never took off) And even if they could, the speaker construction would still be a far weaker link in the sound reproduction chain than superZOMG audio resolution.


    (On the other hand, it is easier to properly master high-res audio which may result in superior sound. This is a bit of a red herring though.)

    The thing though is, CDs tend to be mastered poorly. A lot of why people tend to think vinyl sounds better is because LPs tend to be mastered to a wider dynamic range because only audiophiles who'd appreciate that would ever consider buying them anyhow. I strongly suspect the same tends to be true about "audiophile" digital disc formats.

    So it's not just about it being easier, it's about the actual source material being mastered in a dramatically different fashion a lot of the time, and this is a difference that DOES play out regardless of the weaknesses in speakers. Though, it's also very important to consider a really good pair of front L & R speakers so that you can actually get accurate reproduction. Spend more money on those than you do on the rest of your stuff.

    IT'S GOT ME REACHING IN MY POCKET IT'S GOT ME FORKING OVER CASH
    CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Variable wrote: »
    so... will the htib I posted do that? I understood that it would and I hope I'm not wrong.

    I think so, but the manual is confusing.

    on page 34 under Supported Audio Formats the listing of "Multichannel linear PCM" and the note "Your DVD player must be able to output these formats from its HDMI OUT." and on page 80 under Listening Mode Presets part 4 you have "Multich PCM:...(input via HDMI)" both these excerpts point to the receiver being able to handle MPCM over HDMI.

    but then on page 53 under Specifying the Digital Signal Format part 2 has the gem "PCM: Only 2-channel PCM format input signals will be heard" and the tables on page 60/61 are at best ambiguous: I could read it saying that "PCM" is only two-channel or that "Multichannel Analog" and "Multichannel' are distinct things, the latter being Multichannel PCM (if that's the case why didn't they just say so?).

  • Rigor MortisRigor Mortis Registered User
    edited December 2008
    Pheezer wrote: »
    cctex823 wrote: »
    RuddurBall wrote: »
    You have no need for a 7.1.

    I just bought the Onkyo S6100 HTIB http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=HT-S6100&class=Systems&p=i and I love it, and I only use a 5.1 setup in my theather room. I used the two extra speakers plus a wireless system to set up a nice two speaker alternate system in another room that the reciever controlls defn worth it.

    If you plan on using it with a PS3, you can forget about HD audio. The S6100 and below only support HDMI passthru, the receiver will not process the audio via HDMI. The most you can do is A) send a separate (optical) line from the PS3 or B) run the same line from your TV. And in either case, the audio will not be HD.

    I doubt HD audio is worth worrying about. Tests have shown that human beings can't really distinguish between CD quality and anything higher. (You'll also notice DVD-A, HDCD, and SACD never took off) And even if they could, the speaker construction would still be a far weaker link in the sound reproduction chain than superZOMG audio resolution.


    (On the other hand, it is easier to properly master high-res audio which may result in superior sound. This is a bit of a red herring though.)

    The thing though is, CDs tend to be mastered poorly. A lot of why people tend to think vinyl sounds better is because LPs tend to be mastered to a wider dynamic range because only audiophiles who'd appreciate that would ever consider buying them anyhow. I strongly suspect the same tends to be true about "audiophile" digital disc formats.

    So it's not just about it being easier, it's about the actual source material being mastered in a dramatically different fashion a lot of the time, and this is a difference that DOES play out regardless of the weaknesses in speakers. Though, it's also very important to consider a really good pair of front L & R speakers so that you can actually get accurate reproduction. Spend more money on those than you do on the rest of your stuff.
    Well, I do tend to listen to classical music most. The overlimiting/overcompression problems caused by the loudness war and the reliance on radio play for marketing have not shown up in the classical world.

    So it's ironic that classical music is the only place SACD is thriving..... when it's really pop music that would benefit from it - since the SACD specification isn't only about higher resolution, it actually includes rules about how to mix dynamics. That's what I meant by how hi-res audio sounds better but that the resolution is a red herring - it's all about mastering. So you're quite correct in your suspicion about hi-res audio. The resolution advantage doesn't sound better. The frequency increase helps avoid aliasing problems and the bit increase helps avoid volume problems, that's it really. And even if it did sound better, it would only be for instruments with a tremendous amount of upper partials... like cymbals, and even then only if the cymbals were recorded fresh and not from a drum machine. Meanwhile, pianos, guitars, basses, the majority of instruments don't have as many upper partials and would have no advantage at all if recorded hi-res. This is easy to demonstrate by watching a spectrograph or a FFT while a solo instrument plays.

  • PheezerPheezer Registered User, ClubPA
    edited December 2008
    I'm just going to side step the quote tree here, but yes, so essentially I agree that hi-res formats provide a false technical benefit but in practice still sound better and are likely worth it for someone who's really obsessive about a particular artist. I wouldn't spend a tonne of money on a special purpose player, but I would look for a BD player or a high end DVD player that can handle them correctly, just for the small number I might pick up as I go.

    IT'S GOT ME REACHING IN MY POCKET IT'S GOT ME FORKING OVER CASH
    CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
  • Dark ShroudDark Shroud Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Pheezer wrote: »
    I'm just going to side step the quote tree here, but yes, so essentially I agree that hi-res formats provide a false technical benefit but in practice still sound better and are likely worth it for someone who's really obsessive about a particular artist. I wouldn't spend a tonne of money on a special purpose player, but I would look for a BD player or a high end DVD player that can handle them correctly, just for the small number I might pick up as I go.

    Some PS3s support SACD, I know my 60gig does.

  • Helpless RockHelpless Rock Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I'm going to hijack this thread here to ask a more general question about home audio.

    I've been researching off handled for a while now at purchasing my first receiver and audio system in general. I like the idea of a Home Theater In A Box since it gives me everything i want with reasonable quality and features at not that high of a price. What I need, what I want, all it takes one purchase. Appealing. I've looked a few Yamaha and Onkyo HTiaB (Is that right?) and haven't full decided on one yet, which is a large part on why I'm here.

    I have an HDTV, DVR, record player, 360, Wii, possibly a PS3 eventually, and a computer music library (all in the same room not far from each other) that I want to all cozily snuggle into their appointed slots on a receiver so at a flick of a switch or press of a button I can change the sound to this and that. I have no idea really on how to go about wiring that or if there would be particularly special wires I would need to get all those things connected. I can read labels but I can't always figure out what type of connector works for what sometimes.

    So, the questions are pretty much broken down as this;
    What's a good receiver for a gamer with a record player?
    Can I actually hook all those devices into it so at a press I can change listening to the TV through the speakers to listening to the music on my computer through the speakers (And having the TV sound coming from the TV's speakers normally), to getting done with that press it again and watch on a movie through said speakers from the 360/PS3?
    Can I even connect my computer to a receiver without a Macgyver's Degree in Make Shift Wiring?
    What's a good google search term I can't think of that would give me a good list of all the different types of wires and adapters I would need for this clusterfuck? Or can somebody hear be a Golden Star student and do such a write up?

    I'm sure there is a plethora of other questions that i can't think of at the moment, but I'm mostly just eager to get this all started.


    Mostly because I love wiring things together. And that isn't even sarcasm.

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