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Home Theater? In A BOX?! (onkyo)
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This is why HDMI has been adopted so completely. If you not used to wiring a speaker system then you want a HTiaB. They're very straight forward to set up and usually have easy to understand instructions as this what they were created for. Onkyo is one of if not the best brand to use, they have great packages at different price levels. If you're going to jump into Blu-ray just get your self a PS3 and pony up the cash now for a 7.1 surround sound system that will last you several years.
As to your PC, get yourself a card that supports HDMI. This way you will not have DRM (HDCP) conflicts. It will also save a lot of hassle for set up & use.
You questions about switching sound, over simplified that all depends on two things. First, what your receiver is capable of. Second, how you set the system up for use.
Spherex Xbox 5.1 surround system review:
http://theaudiocritic.com/plog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=7&blogId=1
In terms of the computer music library, if you have WiFi set up in your home this is actually the easiest part. Just install TVersity on your PC, follow the instructions to set up sharing on the folders where your music is stored, and your 360 will pick it up and allow you to stream it through whateer the 360 is hooked in to, be it receiver or otherwise.
For everything else, so long as your individual components are new enough to support HDMI and you have a decent (read: newer) receiver its actually rather simple; I have almost the exact same setup (no record player here) and each component is wired into the receiver via HDMI. Then there is a single HDMI running from the receiver to the television, and its done. This makes the TV into a display and not much more; the input/channel never changes and volume as well as component selection is controlled through the receiver.
*
|
*
|
*
|
##
*
|
The above is my extremely poor attempt at a diagram of how it works, with * being individual components, --- being HDMI cables, | being the receiver, and ## being the television.
Where is it possible to get one of those now?
The problem with ponying up the cash for a 7.1 system is that I have a hard time think I can even pull that off in my apartment. Hell, the 5.1 I have no from my computer is set up fairly poorly. There really isn't many places to put the surround speakers, especially when wired. My TV is in a corner at an angle, and the couch is in the middle of the room with no places to the sides to place speakers. I'm sorta making 5.1 work but I can't think of how I'd manage 2 other speakers. There just isn't place for them without wires going directly across the floor.
Another useful information is that my 360 isn't HDMI. I have a HDMI capable video card (though I honestly haven't seen the slot. Geforce GTX 260). I'd actually rather just have my computer connected directly the the receiver than going through the 360 if it's at all possible it just seems like an extra hassle and more attempts to red ring my 360.
Steam: Car1gt // Gamertag: Car1gt // Facebook // Twitter
In regards to the 7.1 question I was able to nab a Sony STR-DG720 for under $400 if memory serves; its a 7.1 capable receiver driving the 5.1 system in my living room. The rational for going ahead and getting the 7.1 capable unit is that these days it isn't all that much more money, has the capability for increased functionality later on down the road, and finally is pretty much assured to have a decent assortment of HDMI hook-ups and pass-through capability by virtue of it being a newer unit.
I don't know of any 7.1 receivers that won't have what you would need to power a system in the simplest way possible. I can think of few 5.1-only ones that wouldn't. The one I had prior to the Sony being one such example.
Semi-hijack:
This thread got me researching (unfortunately) and after about 5 hours and a long sleepless night i've come to a point where i want to get this:
Q Acoustics 1010i 5.1
for about £7-800
Now that i'm awake, I took a good look at my actual living room. AND IT IS tiny! We are talking 3mx4m of actual living room/speaker space as the rest of it is joined up to my kitchen.
Will i benefit from a (pretty powerful) 5.1? I'd like to think i will be using the receiver and speakers when i move to a bigger place eventually (4 years+). But the speakers will be basically placed in-line with the back of the couch, will it still sound like proper surround?
I'm still quite foggy when it comes to all the acronymed terminology and how to really go about the wiring process on it. Shit gets complicated fast. I'm mostly not totally following the HDMI necessity of it doesn't doesn't HDMI audio passthrough. What's the point otherwise?
Never the less, I've been browsing for good HDMI capable 5.1 systems and I think I've narrowed it down to most likely;
This Yamaha 5.1
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882115124&Tpk=YHT-390BL
Has all the HDMI connectors I think. The reviews on it are pretty strong, but say getting it all wired could be complicated and needing other wires to do the trick.
EDIT: Oh man. I just found this on Newegg;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120081&Tpk=Onkyo%20HT-S5100
But it's sold out. D: At that price I can't imagine why.
I can't figure out which is better. If that Onkyo one becomes available by the time i'm willing to buy, I'd probably go with that, for that price. It's a bit out of range on Amazon (450).
Steam: Car1gt // Gamertag: Car1gt // Facebook // Twitter
It treats it just like a 5.1 system. There's no downside for using a 7.1 receiver for a 5.1 setup beyond the extra 75-100 bucks it cost when you bought it. And as mentioned earlier, there are significant benefits.
Can you rephrase the question? Just enough typos there that I don't follow you
Sorry, I think that had to do with both being foggy and not knowing how to phrase it and posting it a 4 in the morning right before attempting sleep.
Anway,
I'm still quite foggy when it comes to all the acronymed terminology and how to really go about wiring everything. Shit gets complicated fast. I'm mostly not following the need for HDMI or really how HDMI works in audio. What's the benifit of getting a receiver with HDMI if it's only passthrough? That seems like it would need even more wires then just doing it the other ways.
Steam: Car1gt // Gamertag: Car1gt // Facebook // Twitter
The only way to get comparable audio quality not using HDMI with a good receiver is, to my understanding, optical. You would still need video cables, so you're now using multiple cables from the component to the receiver, one for audio, one for video. You would then need ANOTHER set from the receiver to the TV, so now you're at 3 instead of one.
This is where getting a newer receiver can do well by you, however, as not all receivers can process audio through HDMI. Particularly the older or simpler 5.1 set-ups.
You can check out this thread for a little more in-depth info. Basically so long as your receiver is HDMI 1.3 compliant (whic a newer 7.1 set is pretty much assured to have) the HDMI cable can actually process more than spdif or optical and do so with less cables required.
If you have a PS3 than passthrough isn't a problem. It means the player will have to do the decoding. Since the Cell is a monster CPU the PS3 can handle this and then some. The PS3 just has to be set to output LPCM through the HDMI. This should be the same for other players that are capable of decoding as well.
This is one of the reasons the PS3 is the best Blu-ray player hands down.
Steam: Car1gt // Gamertag: Car1gt // Facebook // Twitter
Using HDMI the limed section will take less cables than any other method you have available. Closest to the lowest denominator I can take it.
If the receiver can't process and send the video with a HDMI cable from the receiver's output port to the TV, you are looking at the number of cables needed increasing pretty rapidly as you will have to wire everything to the receiver for audio, and then to the TV for video.
The rest all has to do with the quality of the result, which will vary depending on the receiver and what it can process on its own through the HDMI.
The red text is pretty contradictory, I'm afraid. Ultimately you are going to have to decide which is more important to you: a component that will last years or a component that will save you 200 dollars.
I think the Onkyo one I linked earlier for 370 is probably the best I can find for the price to quality ratio.
Then again, I'm still probably not grasping just how many wires and plugs and adapters I'd end up needing when it's all said and done. Considering behind my TV is already a clusterfuck of wires.. it could get interesting.
Steam: Car1gt // Gamertag: Car1gt // Facebook // Twitter
And I have the added bias of the fact that once I got mine set up so that everything (video and audio) went through the receiver, I was so spoiled by it I could never go back. Aside from the power button, nothing is used on the TV at all anymore and there's only one cable going into the back of the thing. Always on the same input (HDMI1) and I'm guaranteed that everything gets processed correctly 100% of the time.
But mostly it's just the fact I don't think I can rationally drop 600 dollars on a system for this apartment and not feeling an overwhelming buyers remorse seconds after setting it up. Plus I want a PS3 too and that could be well over a grand. I technically have the cash and the income to recoup it back, but that's just not exactly the best choice for me.
Steam: Car1gt // Gamertag: Car1gt // Facebook // Twitter
http://www.play.com/Electronics/Electronics/4-/5749543/Sony-STR-DG820-7-1-Channel-Receiver/Product.html
spec wise it has pretty much everything you need.
EDIT: Also, neither the 720 or the 820 have a phono input, so if you have a turntable/record player (and I believe Helpless did) then the STR-DG920 is your only option in the Sony midrange line.
How do they stack up now against Onkyo, Denon, Marantz, etc?
That STR-DG820 looks mighty tempting, but my sights have been focused on the Onkyo TX-SR606.
MK: DS Code: 528.341.706.032 - Import from Play-Asia PSN: VictorX10
I've seen it argued both ways since the STRs hit the market, but honestly I've never seen a compelling argument for one over the other beyond brand loyalty. The best thing to do is find a store that is set up for listening and see which one sounds better to you. From what I can tell that's the main difference, and is purely subjective. i.e. "The Onkyo/Sony receiver sounded better than the Onkyo/Sony competitor."
Unless he uses a phono pre-amp, which can be a very small and inexpensive device to have. Some may argue that this will even result in slightly better sound in some cases.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
I was really saying for the guy who was after a receiver for stuff like the PS3/ Blu ray. But Yes both the Onkyo and Sony midrange are pretty much just personal tastes/lifestyle choices. I said that sony model in particular because of the amount of inputs is pretty impressive for the price. I would say though if you are looking into a receiver, and you find it has HDMI inputs unless its at an extremely cheap price, avoid any that don't offer the Dolby true HD / Dts HD compatibility now even if you may not think about utilizing them features but its always best to try and future proof with these products. The only thing I will say is if you are buying a midrange or entry point receiver do look into getting an actual good set of speakers/ sub. Nothing annoys more is people buying these high quailty receivers and using a sub $100 speaker setup.
Agree on all the above.
Having no idea about record players, I'll take your word for it
Steam: Car1gt // Gamertag: Car1gt // Facebook // Twitter
I've only heard two HTIB setups (Bose and ...something) and they sounded bad. I would buy the receiver separately and then speakers. I've never bought a 5.1 system for myself but front left and right speakers from the HTIB setups I heard are just huge weakness compared to what you can get buying speakers by themselves. I replaced my parent's HTIB with two speakers I got for free that were made in the 70's and they love it (Norman Lab speakers, pretty nice and can be bought cheap if you find them). They didn't have the speakers set up properly anyways (and they never will) so having two much better speakers as fronts improved everything very much.
Anyways, I would buy everything separately. And if you're willing to go to www.audiogon.com you can find used speakers. There are incredible deals on there if you watch.
SSBB: 5370-1223-4258
Though if the only HTiB set-ups you've heard include Bose and something that sounded as bad as Bose, I can see why you'd be adverse to HTiB. That's sort of like dissing steak because the only two you've ever had were maggot-infested prime rib and maggot-infested prime rib that someone had pooped on.
Maddie: "I am not!"
Riley: "You're a marsupial!"
Maddie: "I am a placental mammal!"
There is some confusion regarding HDMI "passthrough." W/r/to video, video "passes through" the receiver to the next downstream component unadulterated; this avoids lag introduced by video processing occuring on the receiver. If "passthrough" refers to audio on an HT receiver then that's a confusing label, as I assume the audio signal is not "passing through" the receiver, but rather the receiver is interpretting the audio signal (performing the digital-to-analog conversion and amplification).
How much you need to spend on your multichannel audio system depends upon what you want to achieve.
There are a lot of considerations in spec'ing out an audio system, the most important of which is how much you're willing to pay. Whether or not you want a receiver with discrete amps, or nicer DACs, or whatever depends heavily upon if you think the audio performance differences are worth the added expense.
My demands and pocketbook led me to the following solution: a budget modern componentized HT multichannel system for movies and cable, and a separate 2 channel system for music. My 2-channel system is analog end-to-end so I'm probably in the minority w/r/to music audio performance demands as compared to the general market.
I'll second audiogon as a good place to get components, particularly vintage. IMO you can save a shitload of money picking up reconditioned full-range speakers from the 70's rather than buying new. However, it can be diffcult to source 4 or 6 vintage speakers using the same drivers and crossover networks, and they tend to be bigger and heavier. Also the first few generations of transistorized receivers tend to produce a warmer sound than modern affordable receivers, to my ears at least.
Edit: Good call ElJeffe. Also back in the 70's Bose actually put out some quality speakers, they're worth demo-ing if you find some in good condition.
This is a good point - matching up speakers from random people in random eras can be tricky. That said, the result of disparate speakers without proper timbre-matching is probably subtle enough to be lost on those who would go with HTiB in the first place. Assuming you're at least buying pairs of fronts and pairs of surrounds, and not getting a completely different speaker in each slot. Things like relative volume can be adjusted at the receiver, unless your receiver is really ghetto.
edit: Getting the center can be a little tricky, I suppose, since if it's really off from the fronts, it can be noticeable enough that even non-audiophiles might care.
Maddie: "I am not!"
Riley: "You're a marsupial!"
Maddie: "I am a placental mammal!"
I have Hales Concept Twos right now and got them for $700 ($500 + 200lbs of shipping o_O) on audiogon. They were a lot more than that new... it was a great deal.
SSBB: 5370-1223-4258
Maddie: "I am not!"
Riley: "You're a marsupial!"
Maddie: "I am a placental mammal!"
SSBB: 5370-1223-4258
Maddie: "I am not!"
Riley: "You're a marsupial!"
Maddie: "I am a placental mammal!"
I know that the Big Trouble in Little China DVD has a 4.1 mix
Running it through the wall looks better, but it's a hassle because you run this risk of fucking up the appearance of the drywall and fucking up the insulation as it can get snagged on the cable or fish when you're pushing cable through. You'll need access to the attic and a fish (bendy metal rod that you use to push/pull the cable up/down through insulation). If you want it to look professional you'll also need a box to terminate the cable runs at each speaker location and at the receiver location; it's just red and black, much easier to terminate than RJ-45. Before starting think long and hard about the speaker/receiver placements, once installed it will be a lot of work to redo if you want to move stuff around.
I find it easier to cut a hole in the drywall, tape the cable to the end of the fish and push the cable up to the attic. I'd do this at each speaker location first. Then cut a hole in the drywall at the receiver location, through this send the fish up into the attic, tape all the reciever-ends of the cables to the fish and pull down the cables. If you're setting up just 5.1 I'd go ahead and run the cable for 7.1 now.
Also since you've an HTiB, it likely came with pre-cut color-coded lengths of cable. You may have to scrap them and cut your own cable as the lengths may not be sufficient to run though the walls. In addition to accounting for the thickness of the ceilings there may be obstructions in the attic you have to run the cable around.
I think it's more trouble than it's worth to run inwall (unless the drywall isn't installed yet) and running it along wall with cable nail-downs or along/under baseboards is much less a PiTA.