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Israel bans Arab political parties from elections

deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
edited January 2009 in Debate and/or Discourse
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2009/01/israel_bans_arab_parties_from_coming_election.php
Israel on Monday banned Arab political parties from running in next month's parliamentary elections, drawing accusations of racism by an Arab lawmaker who said he would challenge the decision in the country's Supreme Court.
So, in Israel, if you are not part of a Jewish political party, you are not allowed to run for office anymore.

By doing this, Israel has forfeited any claim to being a democracy, and is inching closer and closer to total apartheid. This is racism at its most basic. Is there any chance of the supreme court overturning this? Even if they do, will their decision be followed? It seems as of late that the court speaks and no one listens.

I see this possibly setting off a violent uprising in Israel itself.

(This should be kept separate from the Gaza thread, because this isn't about the war, it's about Israel's internal politics.)

deadonthestreet on
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Posts

  • HonkHonk Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2009
    Coinage wrote: »
    I don't know much about this situation, but I think it sparks an interesting corrollary question: is it ever right to ban a party? What if all those parties really did support terrorists?

    I'd find that incredibly hard to believe.

  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    WTF. Okay. Well. Shit is going to hit the fan.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    Seriously, how is this possible?
    They're a vaguely democratic theocracy. What do you expect? They're basically as fucked up as most of the other countries in the region. Why we've decided that their particular brand of fucked-upness means we give them shitloads of aid and support and tell everyone else in the region to fuck off, I don't know.

    Because they have supporters that spend lots of money on K Street?

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  • geckahngeckahn Registered User
    edited January 2009
    this is fucked.

    If it holds up in court, total clusterfuck.

  • geckahngeckahn Registered User
    edited January 2009
    Coinage wrote: »
    I don't know much about this situation, but I think it sparks an interesting corrollary question: is it ever right to ban a party? What if all those parties really did support terrorists?

    no. stop.

  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Honk wrote: »
    Seriously, how is this possible?
    Reactionary politics?

    Or trolling. Most likely the worst of both.

    14271f3c-c765-4e74-92b1-49d7612675f2.jpg
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Coinage wrote: »
    I don't know much about this situation, but I think it sparks an interesting corrollary question: is it ever right to ban a party? What if all those parties really did support terrorists?
    They're basically completely disenfranchising 20% of their electorate (who was really only getting ten percent of the representation to begin with).

    I think Israel is just defining "anyone who has ever been inside a Mosque" as a terrorist. See, that way, they don't feel so bad about the senseless slaughter and apartheid.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Coinage wrote: »
    I don't know much about this situation, but I think it sparks an interesting corrollary question: is it ever right to ban a party? What if all those parties really did support terrorists?

    No.

    tea-1.jpg
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Coinage wrote: »
    I don't know much about this situation, but I think it sparks an interesting corrollary question: is it ever right to ban a party? What if all those parties really did support terrorists?

    Do you really want us to go into a discussion of the background of Likud (which nobody argues should be removed?)

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  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    See what I mean?

    Neocons with Stars of David instead of crucifixes.

    11793-1.png
    Spoiler:
  • geckahngeckahn Registered User
    edited January 2009
    Huh. they banned a party before, in the 80s. super zionist one I guess.

    Well, God Bless America.

  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Coinage wrote: »
    I don't know much about this situation, but I think it sparks an interesting corrollary question: is it ever right to ban a party? What if all those parties really did support terrorists?

    If they were providing actual support (money, people) to the terrorists, there are already tools in place to deal with that. Banning a party just because they lend moral/rhetorical support to terrorists is straight up bullshit.

    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    PantsB wrote: »
    See what I mean?

    Neocons with Stars of David instead of crucifixes.

    You...you do know that a sizable contingent of neocons were hawkish Jews who supported Israel, right? To the point that people have tried to argue that "neocon" is an anti-Semitic slur?

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  • CoinageCoinage The man from the other side Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Coinage wrote: »
    I don't know much about this situation, but I think it sparks an interesting corrollary question: is it ever right to ban a party? What if all those parties really did support terrorists?

    Do you really want us to go into a discussion of the background of Likud (which nobody argues should be removed?)
    No, probably not.

    By the way I should have added that I wasn't saying they were justified, I was just speaking rhetorically. ;-)

    coinage.gif
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited January 2009
    moniker wrote: »
    Coinage wrote: »
    I don't know much about this situation, but I think it sparks an interesting corrollary question: is it ever right to ban a party? What if all those parties really did support terrorists?

    No.

    Yeah, I don't care if it's the Murder Babies and Lynch All Them Darkies Party. Let them organize.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Coinage wrote: »
    Coinage wrote: »
    I don't know much about this situation, but I think it sparks an interesting corrollary question: is it ever right to ban a party? What if all those parties really did support terrorists?

    Do you really want us to go into a discussion of the background of Likud (which nobody argues should be removed?)
    No, probably not.

    By the way I should have added that I wasn't saying they were justified, I was just speaking rhetorically. ;-)

    Well, the answer is no. Remember, Britain got a LOT more mileage out of treating Sinn Fein as a legitimate political actor than they ever did trying to conflate it with the IRA.

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  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    First of all- this is terribad and there's no defense of it.

    Second, there is some dramatization here. What happened is that the two Arab parties in Knesset- Balad and United Arab List-Ta'al- are being disqualified from the upcoming election. This isn't a ban on 'all Arab parties' in general (however, there happen to be only two). They were individual, faceted motions, not a comprehensive ban on Arab parties in general.

    Also, I'll note that these are the first parties banned since the 80s- when a party was banned for advocacy of expelling all Arabs from Israel.

    This action isn't defensible, but it is what it is- not what some of ya'll are choosing to extrapolate it to.

    XMSODhjrer45.gif
  • ElldrenElldren 3067-6294-6208Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Well, I'm sure discussion in the U.S. media will be quashed by charges of anti-Semitism leveled willy-nilly.

    It always is.

  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I'm not clear on what Israel's official justification is for this action.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
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  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Feral wrote: »
    I'm not clear on what Israel's official justification is for this action.
    Basically "these guys are jerks, we don't want them in out government."

  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Feral wrote: »
    I'm not clear on what Israel's official justification is for this action.

    Probably something about protecting Israelis from rocket attacks from inside the party headquarters.

    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
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  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Feral wrote: »
    I'm not clear on what Israel's official justification is for this action.
    Well, if they'd done it before now, the Arabs would have had a month or more to organize political parties to get on the ballot.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    The Israeli Supreme Court seems more sane on these issues, so hopefully they can overturn this.

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  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Organichu wrote: »
    First of all- this is terribad and there's no defense of it.

    Second, there is some dramatization here. What happened is that the two Arab parties in Knesset- Balad and United Arab List-Ta'al- are being disqualified from the upcoming election. This isn't a ban on 'all Arab parties' in general (however, there happen to be only two). They were individual, faceted motions, not a comprehensive ban on Arab parties in general.

    Also, I'll note that these are the first parties banned since the 80s- when a party was banned for advocacy of expelling all Arabs for Israel.

    This action isn't defensible, but it is what it is- not what some of ya'll are choosing to extrapolate it to.
    I'll lay money that it's too late to get any new Arab parties on the ballot for the February election.

    So, how is it not what we're choosing to extrapolate? Also, did anyone other than the Arab parties vote against this? Or is it basically two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner?

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Organichu wrote: »
    First of all- this is terribad and there's no defense of it.

    Second, there is some dramatization here. What happened is that the two Arab parties in Knesset- Balad and United Arab List-Ta'al- are being disqualified from the upcoming election. This isn't a ban on 'all Arab parties' in general (however, there happen to be only two). They were individual, faceted motions, not a comprehensive ban on Arab parties in general.

    Also, I'll note that these are the first parties banned since the 80s- when a party was banned for advocacy of expelling all Arabs for Israel.

    This action isn't defensible, but it is what it is- not what some of ya'll are choosing to extrapolate it to.

    Okay, here's the million dollar question - how the fuck do you think this looks to the rest of the world? Seriously - Israel is waging a one-sided war while the rest of the world looks on in horror, and then ejects from its government two Arab political parties on the behest of the ultranationalist wing that provoked the war in the first place.

    You know, when I equated the position of Israeli Arabs with the position of Southern Black Americans in the 60s, you told me that I was being hyperbolic and it wasn't that bad. Somehow, after this turn of events, I think you owe me an apology.

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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Feral wrote: »
    I'm not clear on what Israel's official justification is for this action.
    I'd assume it's similar to the justification that was used for the Japanese internment camps here in the states;

    "We can't be sure they're on our side, and you people are scared out of your mind, so we're going to exploit the situation and oppress these people for political gain."

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    The Israeli Supreme Court seems more sane on these issues, so hopefully they can overturn this.

    The problem is the Knesset seems to be taking an Jacksonian stand on this - namely, they're telling the Court "yes, you ruled this way, now try to enforce it."

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  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    The Israeli Supreme Court seems more sane on these issues, so hopefully they can overturn this.
    Israel seems to be ignoring orders from the court lately

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    One step closer to my prophecy of Israel being Iraq 2: Nuclear Bugaloo.

    freefallagentad_zps635a83ed.png
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    The Israeli Supreme Court seems more sane on these issues, so hopefully they can overturn this.
    Israel seems to be ignoring orders from the court lately

    What're some examples of that?

  • MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS
    edited January 2009
    The Israeli Supreme Court seems more sane on these issues, so hopefully they can overturn this.
    Israel seems to be ignoring orders from the court lately

    What're some examples of that?

    When the court ordered them to allow press access during the current war and they said "uh no"

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    The Israeli Supreme Court seems more sane on these issues, so hopefully they can overturn this.
    Israel seems to be ignoring orders from the court lately
    What're some examples of that?
    When the court told them that they couldn't ban media from Gaza, and they still ban media from Gaza.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    The Israeli Supreme Court seems more sane on these issues, so hopefully they can overturn this.
    Israel seems to be ignoring orders from the court lately

    What're some examples of that?

    Um, the IDF banning reporters from Gaza, for starters?

    Edit: Nice, a triple play.

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  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Organichu wrote: »
    First of all- this is terribad and there's no defense of it.

    Second, there is some dramatization here. What happened is that the two Arab parties in Knesset- Balad and United Arab List-Ta'al- are being disqualified from the upcoming election. This isn't a ban on 'all Arab parties' in general (however, there happen to be only two). They were individual, faceted motions, not a comprehensive ban on Arab parties in general.

    Also, I'll note that these are the first parties banned since the 80s- when a party was banned for advocacy of expelling all Arabs for Israel.

    This action isn't defensible, but it is what it is- not what some of ya'll are choosing to extrapolate it to.

    Okay, here's the million dollar question - how the fuck do you think this looks to the rest of the world? Seriously - Israel is waging a one-sided war while the rest of the world looks on in horror, and then ejects from its government two Arab political parties on the behest of the ultranationalist wing that provoked the war in the first place.

    You know, when I equated the position of Israeli Arabs with the position of Southern Black Americans in the 60s, you told me that I was being hyperbolic and it wasn't that bad. Somehow, after this turn of events, I think you owe me an apology.
    Never mind how it looks to the rest of the world, note how it's going to look to all the countries in Israel's neighborhood that oh by the way just happen to be Arab.

    Yeah, expect another couple months of random buildings in the Greater Israel Area getting blown to bits.

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  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    First of all- this is terribad and there's no defense of it.

    Second, there is some dramatization here. What happened is that the two Arab parties in Knesset- Balad and United Arab List-Ta'al- are being disqualified from the upcoming election. This isn't a ban on 'all Arab parties' in general (however, there happen to be only two). They were individual, faceted motions, not a comprehensive ban on Arab parties in general.

    Also, I'll note that these are the first parties banned since the 80s- when a party was banned for advocacy of expelling all Arabs for Israel.

    This action isn't defensible, but it is what it is- not what some of ya'll are choosing to extrapolate it to.
    I'll lay money that it's too late to get any new Arab parties on the ballot for the February election.

    So, how is it not what we're choosing to extrapolate? Also, did anyone other than the Arab parties vote against this? Or is it basically two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner?

    Because something happening incidentally and something happening purposefully are two different things. If all of the reserve players on your team are found to be taking performance enhancing drugs and so they're all disqualified, and as a corollary my favorite team gets a 'win', it doesn't mean that I went about making your team ineligible to play. It's an 'incidence', not an intention. Like I said, the people found guilty of drug use shouldn't be disqualified anyway- no ideas should be silenced in a democratic arena- but again it doesn't prove intent.

    Unless you can provide proof that the overarching intention of these motions is to effectively stifle Arab representation in Knesset?...

    As I see it, a pair of very undemocratic and deplorable motions passed through Knesset. An unfortunate consequence (though certainly not a racially motivated agenda by the Israeli government at large) is that Arab voters (and the Arabs who wished to run on the tickets of either of those two parties) will be shorted this election.

    XMSODhjrer45.gif
  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Organichu wrote: »
    First of all- this is terribad and there's no defense of it.

    Second, there is some dramatization here. What happened is that the two Arab parties in Knesset- Balad and United Arab List-Ta'al- are being disqualified from the upcoming election. This isn't a ban on 'all Arab parties' in general (however, there happen to be only two). They were individual, faceted motions, not a comprehensive ban on Arab parties in general.

    Also, I'll note that these are the first parties banned since the 80s- when a party was banned for advocacy of expelling all Arabs for Israel.

    This action isn't defensible, but it is what it is- not what some of ya'll are choosing to extrapolate it to.

    Okay, here's the million dollar question - how the fuck do you think this looks to the rest of the world? Seriously - Israel is waging a one-sided war while the rest of the world looks on in horror, and then ejects from its government two Arab political parties on the behest of the ultranationalist wing that provoked the war in the first place.

    It's going to look bad. It looks bad to us in Israel. It is bad. I just said that.
    You know, when I equated the position of Israeli Arabs with the position of Southern Black Americans in the 60s, you told me that I was being hyperbolic and it wasn't that bad. Somehow, after this turn of events, I think you owe me an apology.

    No, I don't think that you do. I stand by my position that the two aren't comparable.

    XMSODhjrer45.gif
  • MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS
    edited January 2009
    Organichu wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    First of all- this is terribad and there's no defense of it.

    Second, there is some dramatization here. What happened is that the two Arab parties in Knesset- Balad and United Arab List-Ta'al- are being disqualified from the upcoming election. This isn't a ban on 'all Arab parties' in general (however, there happen to be only two). They were individual, faceted motions, not a comprehensive ban on Arab parties in general.

    Also, I'll note that these are the first parties banned since the 80s- when a party was banned for advocacy of expelling all Arabs for Israel.

    This action isn't defensible, but it is what it is- not what some of ya'll are choosing to extrapolate it to.
    I'll lay money that it's too late to get any new Arab parties on the ballot for the February election.

    So, how is it not what we're choosing to extrapolate? Also, did anyone other than the Arab parties vote against this? Or is it basically two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner?

    Because something happening incidentally and something happening purposefully are two different things. If all of the reserve players on your team are found to be taking performance enhancing drugs and so they're all disqualified, and as a corollary my favorite team gets a 'win', it doesn't mean that I went about making your team ineligible to play. It's an 'incidence', not an intention. Like I said, the people found guilty of drug use shouldn't be disqualified anyway- no ideas should be silenced in a democratic arena- but again it doesn't prove intent.

    Unless you can provide proof that the overarching intention of these motions is to effectively stifle Arab representation in Knesset?...

    As I see it, a pair of very undemocratic and deplorable motions passed through Knesset. An unfortunate consequence (though certainly not a racially motivated agenda by the Israeli government at large) is that Arab voters (and the Arabs who wished to run on the tickets of either of those two parties) will be shorted this election.
    No, if you take positive steps to make something happen that will have the effect of disenfranchising an entire segment of the population, KNOWING THAT WILL HAPPEN, that be racially motivated. Lack of outright racism on the surface does not mean it's not there.

  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Had it been an Arab state with a mixed Jewish-Arab population disenfranchising the only two Jewish political parties, the accusations of anti-semitism (sic) would be flying like mortar shells.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Organichu wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    First of all- this is terribad and there's no defense of it.

    Second, there is some dramatization here. What happened is that the two Arab parties in Knesset- Balad and United Arab List-Ta'al- are being disqualified from the upcoming election. This isn't a ban on 'all Arab parties' in general (however, there happen to be only two). They were individual, faceted motions, not a comprehensive ban on Arab parties in general.

    Also, I'll note that these are the first parties banned since the 80s- when a party was banned for advocacy of expelling all Arabs for Israel.

    This action isn't defensible, but it is what it is- not what some of ya'll are choosing to extrapolate it to.
    I'll lay money that it's too late to get any new Arab parties on the ballot for the February election.

    So, how is it not what we're choosing to extrapolate? Also, did anyone other than the Arab parties vote against this? Or is it basically two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner?
    Because something happening incidentally and something happening purposefully are two different things. If all of the reserve players on your team are found to be taking performance enhancing drugs and so they're all disqualified, and as a corollary my favorite team gets a 'win', it doesn't mean that I went about making your team ineligible to play. It's an 'incidence', not an intention. Like I said, the people found guilty of drug use shouldn't be disqualified anyway- no ideas should be silenced in a democratic arena- but again it doesn't prove intent.

    Unless you can provide proof that the overarching intention of these motions is to effectively stifle Arab representation in Knesset?...

    As I see it, a pair of very undemocratic and deplorable motions passed through Knesset. An unfortunate consequence (though certainly not a racially motivated agenda by the Israeli government at large) is that Arab voters (and the Arabs who wished to run on the tickets of either of those two parties) will be shorted this election.
    Are you fucking shitting me?

    You think it's just a fucking coincidence that they passed these motions less than a month before an election? Like, "oh, we hadn't thought about it before now, but let's get this taken care of...?" Are they putting something in the fucking water over there or something? And they weren't "found guilty" of anything; there wasn't even a fucking trial. A bunch of other political parties said "oh, sorry, you visited other Arab countries; that means we slap a terrorist label on you, and you're out." This is like instead of drug testing to discover performance-enhancing drugs, asking the other teams in the American League whether or not they think the Yankees are using performance-enhancing drugs, then disqualifying them based on a majority of them saying "yes."

    This is fucking bullshit, Organichu. I mean, I realize I use a lot of hyperbole when dealing with Israel, but to pretend this is anything but a naked power grab is fucking abhorrent.

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