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Non-Violent Felony record + Physics PhD = ??
Anon the Felon
In bat country.Registered User regular
In bat country.Registered User regular
A little background:
So, I am attending college again and have been putting a lot of thought as to what I would like to do with my life, and where I want to go. I previously wanted to get into the technology field, then something else, then something else. I danced around with what I wanted to get a degree in for quite some time.
Recently I had a realization that I wanted to get into science and then narrowed that down do wanting to study physics and more specifically, get a PhD (right after undergrad) in either nuclear physics or applied physics. This is all possible, just takes some buckling down, a lot of math and work.
About 3 years ago I flunked out of my first year of college (lets say...5 F's 1 D and 1 C) and got myself a nice drug felony and with that 5 years of probation. I have of course seen the errors of my ways and no longer operate that way. I know that I can apply for a pardon 5 years after the end of my probation from the state and federal governments, which would alleviate the entire problem in most cases (there was no withheld judgment as part of the plea bargain, the penalty of being free I suppose).
Question(s):
With probably 7+ years of reformed life would the criminal record pose an issue when trying to enter the doctoral program?
Will a non-violent felony (if not pardoned/expunged) prevent me from working in the research/scientific field even after acquiring a PhD in the field after the felony conviction?
Will the previous failed attempt at college plague my GPA or can I get it removed from my academic record or will 4 years of high grades and entering a graduate program prevent this from being a problem? These grades where given to me about...3 or 4 years ago.
I attempted to look all this up but Google was not that helpful in relation of physicists and felonies, I am starting a plan to become a professional and not be one of those criminals who lets it bring them down. I made a mistake, I changed my life and saw what I was doing wrong. I was just hit with paralyzing fear that this might prevent me from finding a career in a field I would like to get highly educated in.
Note: Please don't rag on about the fact that I got the felony or that I shouldn't have or should know it will follow me for life...blah blah blah, I am looking for any information as to: if I should take a closer look in another field because this field of study, will yield low potential and even with all that time and academic study...I would struggle to find a job.
So, I am attending college again and have been putting a lot of thought as to what I would like to do with my life, and where I want to go. I previously wanted to get into the technology field, then something else, then something else. I danced around with what I wanted to get a degree in for quite some time.
Recently I had a realization that I wanted to get into science and then narrowed that down do wanting to study physics and more specifically, get a PhD (right after undergrad) in either nuclear physics or applied physics. This is all possible, just takes some buckling down, a lot of math and work.
About 3 years ago I flunked out of my first year of college (lets say...5 F's 1 D and 1 C) and got myself a nice drug felony and with that 5 years of probation. I have of course seen the errors of my ways and no longer operate that way. I know that I can apply for a pardon 5 years after the end of my probation from the state and federal governments, which would alleviate the entire problem in most cases (there was no withheld judgment as part of the plea bargain, the penalty of being free I suppose).
Question(s):
With probably 7+ years of reformed life would the criminal record pose an issue when trying to enter the doctoral program?
Will a non-violent felony (if not pardoned/expunged) prevent me from working in the research/scientific field even after acquiring a PhD in the field after the felony conviction?
Will the previous failed attempt at college plague my GPA or can I get it removed from my academic record or will 4 years of high grades and entering a graduate program prevent this from being a problem? These grades where given to me about...3 or 4 years ago.
I attempted to look all this up but Google was not that helpful in relation of physicists and felonies, I am starting a plan to become a professional and not be one of those criminals who lets it bring them down. I made a mistake, I changed my life and saw what I was doing wrong. I was just hit with paralyzing fear that this might prevent me from finding a career in a field I would like to get highly educated in.
Note: Please don't rag on about the fact that I got the felony or that I shouldn't have or should know it will follow me for life...blah blah blah, I am looking for any information as to: if I should take a closer look in another field because this field of study, will yield low potential and even with all that time and academic study...I would struggle to find a job.
Anon the Felon on
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For something like secret level and above security clearance, it certainly is an issue.
Also, your xbl tag is funny.
I would suggest thinking about teaching or private sector if you pursue this path. The problem being "private sector" is almost 90% tied to the government anyways so the possible lack of a security clearance will make you cry at night at some point.
I'm all for you going after your dreams and what not, but it seems to me you're brushing off the fact that this is extraordinarily difficult...
Depends why he failed. People sometimes screw up their educations for reasons other than lack of academic ability.
Ok, seriously though, they will look at the last handful of years (depending on the level of clearance and the type of offense, as some issues are pertinent no matter how long ago they happened). Given your particular felony, do not ever expect to become an FBI field agent (no drug involvement ever from what I've heard), but it being 10+ years old, you should be fine. Just be 100% honest and forthright and never ever fall back onto the drugs (not even a little 5 minutes of "fun" at a party... but if that did happen, you would really want to tell them about it). I know people with top level clearances who spent their entire college experience on drugs. In fact, I know people who had arguments with their investigator over the fact that they did NOT do drugs despite being in high school/college in the 60s.
Of course, you first need to go through college to get that degree. It will be helpful to spend summers looking for internships with companies that do classified work in order to get the clearance before you finish school (in return for working with that company for a year or two following graduation).
Murphy's Paradox: The more you plan, the more that can go wrong. The less you plan, the less likely your plan will succeed.
I failed out the first year because I spent to much time partying and not going to class (I graduated high school with a 4.0 and several AP classes, I love education I just wasn't ready), I suffered from the issue a lot of 18 year old college students suffer from: it was my first time out in the big bad world with no one watching me. I wasn't prepared for total freedom, which in turn got me into a heap of trouble. After a few years I am now able to take responsibility and have stopped being wrapped up in self.
But thank you for the advice, going and getting the degree and advanced degrees are not the issue for me. I love academic study and working towards a goal now, previously in my life I had no aspiration and thought everything would be handed to me with a minimal amount of work. I now know differently and even relish the thought of working my ass off to accomplish what few do.
Also, thanks for the idea to go get internships at companies that require a clearance, I think that if I where to apply to a different job after that, the previous experience with a clearance where there was no problem would reflect well upon me.
Going back to drugs is not an option for me, hell I have been free of narcotics/alcohol for 3 years now and haven't looked back once (yes there are people with more time in sobriety, but 3 years with out one relapse or even the thought of relapse is quite good for an addict). Why would some one with dreams and aspirations to be great do something that stagnates you in life?
On the note of academic v. private sector v. government jobs: I am honestly more interested in working in the fields of academic research and corporate R&D before the government anyway. I don't think it would be an issue in the academic side, considering I could apply to stay on at the college I got the advanced degree from. Knowing the professors and having worked with them for years would probably make it a moot point. In the private sector I know it could be an issue, but from what I have heard if your in the doctoral program (and not just dicking around) and going to go places with it the people you work with help place you in a job (my grandfather holds a PhD in electrical engineering so this information isn't exactly made up).
It depends on the doctoral program. At most universities it’s unlikely to be a big deal aside from how it impacts your financial aid—seriously, if Bill Ayers can be tenured faculty at a big U, you can get a PHD. But make sure you don’t apply to programs run by firebreathing anti-drug types.
Will a non-violent felony (if not pardoned/expunged) prevent me from working in the research/scientific field even after acquiring a PhD in the field after the felony conviction?
Probably not. Violent crimes and theft/embezzlement are the bad ones to have. Drug convictions are a dime a dozen.
Will the previous failed attempt at college plague my GPA…
Not if you’re a good student the second time around. Especially if you do well on whatever standardized tests you need to take.
If you're really worried about it, volunteer hours never hurt on a resume (excepting aforementioned 'fixing to blow up the government' organizations)
An easy, nasty thing to say - do you have any knowledge or experience to back that up?
I think that the OP is (understandably) worried about an embarassing part of his life. However, as an employer myself, I would ask some penetrating questions about current drug use, and if satisfied would no longer give it any thought.
Just think how you want to explain the record and present yourself now. I don't think it will be a problem.
Quick note: I was told this by my academic adviser, I'd like to hope it's not total bullshit, but if I'm wrong someone call me on it.
But no, you absolutely can not do that. Granted it's not a given that they'll ever find out, but if they do that's a huge case of academic fraud, and no university will ever let you back in. A postgraduate program will probably do a fairly in depth look at your records, and if they find out you are screwed.
Anecdotal evidence given by adviser: Jimmy the wanna be lawyer applies to law school after "forgetting" to put his failing years of college on his application. Law school is rather upset, not only do they deny him admission, but he is no longer able to get into any law school evar evar.
It still shows up in a in depth examination, but they will no longer be figured into your overall GPA.
like I said, MOST offer this ability, not all. I know the school I am going to attend after I do some community college does offer it. So that sets aside my worries for entering a postgraduate program based on grades. Ability to get there is not an issue, being driven to success kind of makes it a non-factor.
Right, yeah, a lot of Universities have all sorts of neat replacement programs and all that, but the suggestion of "hey just don't tell them" is a terrible idea. Just tell them and do whatever they say you can to fix it.
Just gives more in my favor right?
Edit: Plus when applying for a pardon/record expunge, going into the hearing with a Masters, and moving into a doctoral program would be a pretty big comment on my credibility and commitment.
Oh, I am not transferring credits to the community college at all, they just got my transcript because...they are a satellite college of the university itself.
I am actually pretty excited, the uni is opening a research thing and going to redirect their focus to becoming a science/research school. I would be one of the first ([not the first, within the first bundle of students] if they stick to their time table, and I stick to mine) to graduate with an advanced degree when they get it up and running...which seems like a perfect chance to try and get a job with them.
You just have to do really really well. Say goodbye to partying and fucking around. you're gonna be one of those people deep in books on the weekends. It's kinda an interesting change in lifestyle. I'm up late reading or studying, not being at the bar or chasing hookers. Well, only every once in a while. Seriously though, be prepared to not quite fit in. Although I did have chicks hit on my while I was studying. Some of em are like a hard studying man. Suprising, I know.
Oh, it's going to be really really hard. Espically cause you have to excel, not just do kinda okay grade wise. You're gonna miss those brain cells you killed and the surviving ones are going to be bitter about having to do extra work. Trying to earn A's is a lot harder than I thought. It was hard for me because I never learned proper studying skills the first time..or really ever. You might wanna work on how to actually study. There's all different ways and sit down and reading the book may not work well for you. You said you did well in HS but a lot of my teachers like to mention that college class is different. I don't know, HS was a long time ago for me.
Man, wait until you hit that calculus, diffique, and heavy physics shit. oh, do you get statics and dynamics, and shit like that too? ahaha, you poor bastard! Free body diagram FTW!
And you kinda can't get federal financial aid, can you? A drug conviction question is on the form. My sister lost her's when she got convicted with a drug felony. Like as soon as she got convicted, whomp, no aid. You can get private ones but federal ones are closed.
Anyway, good luck. Just remember, if ya fail, you're fucked. Keep the faith! And for God's sake don't fall in love.
It's not just federal, most schools won't give you any aid either.
Depends on the particular offense, the particular school, and ability to provide documented evidence of participation in an acknowledged rehab-program.
But its not an absolute, in fact the financial aid group thing doesn't make any noise if you have a drug conviction from 3+ years ago. The federal government also offers grants and loans specifically for felons returning to school. Which are remarkably easy to get and offer quite a bit of money.
It depends, were you receiving financial aid when you got your conviction?
I'm in community college right now, after I flunked out of college my first time around. They are still transferring my credits over (the ones I actually earned), but my GPA is only factoring in the new classes I take. 4.0 so far.
The thing is though, even though they don't factor into your GPA, all those F's still stay on your transcript, and, if you plan on doing post-Bac work, you will eventually have to explain them.
Yeah I should have commented on that, I have already attended classes at a credited...clinic I suppose is the word, and I have been a regular attendee of AA for 2 years and plan continuing that. I knew it might be an issue down the road so I have a signed card of every time I have been to a meeting for all that time, and will continue to do so. Which I can provide copies for anyone who wants to know some of the steps I have taken to rehabilitate myself.
Not even just post-bac, if they plan on transferring from the CC to finish undergrad they'll have to explain them.
Not necessarily. They're also pretty likely to just look at them and decide class by class whether or not they are willing to give transfer-credit and just not discuss it beyond that.
Like (hypothetical): I would need a 3.5 to get into a doctoral program, the F's from my previous year drag down my GPA to a 3.3, and I am not even given the chance to explain why I have those F's. I just simply am not allowed to apply to the program.