We're pimps and killers, but in a philanthropic way. [Dollhouse, Whedon spoilers]

OremLK

What is it?

If the words "Joss Whedon's new show" don't spark your interest, I don't even know what to do with you.

Sigh. Fine. Dollhouse is a new one-hour drama. It is a near-future science fiction show about "actives", people who are blank slates living in a futuristic dormitory/laboratory (the Dollhouse), where they wait to be programmed with memories and sent on secret missions. Eliza Dushku (Faith in Buffy) plays as Echo, a doll whose personality begins to emerge despite the best efforts of her handlers.

Other actors of interest include Tahmoh Penikett (Helo in BSG), who plays a cop trying to discover the truth about the Dollhouse, and Amy Acker (Fred in Angel), a doctor who looks after the the actives.

When does it come on?

In case you're blind and missed that big honking poster, Dollhouse premiered on February 13th and will play on Fridays at 9pm ET/8pm CST. This is known as the "death slot" and has killed about a dozen science fiction shows in the last fifteen years, including Firefly. So if you happen to have a Nielsen box, do us a favor and leave it running, will you?

OremLK

Buffy had plenty of monsters of the week, true, but it also always had what the fans call a "Big Bad"--a season-long story arc--and became incredibly serial at times. Angel took it even farther in the third and fourth seasons and had very few monsters of the week... almost every episode in those seasons progressed the main story.

I suppose it's fair to say that Firefly was pretty episodic, but they did keep the River storyline in play pretty consistently given how few episodes there were in total. So, yes, this show could be amazing just like Firefly was, and I'm hoping it will be. I do love me some continuity though.

Bionic Monkey

Tomanta wrote: »

The good news is that Fox has promised to:
1) Use lower rating standards, given its timeslot
and
2) Show the full season no matter what.

So let's just hope Joss didn't give it a cliffhanger ending of any sort.

Joss tends to be pretty good at avoiding cliff-hangers. He likes to wrap up plots at the end of his seasons, and start fresh with the new season.

Bionic Monkey

redx wrote: »

I just don't get it. It's like the cute girl that keeps going back to the asshole boyfriend. You just have to sit there and watch it happen over and over and over again.

I know Fox drives a nice car and sometimes is funny, but can't Joss Whedon do better?

If this hasn't already been addressed, Dushku has a contract with Fox. The show is actually a collaboration between her and Whedon, so if he wanted to do it, it legally had to be with Fox.

Balefuego

Bionic Monkey wrote: »

Tomanta wrote: »

The good news is that Fox has promised to:
1) Use lower rating standards, given its timeslot
and
2) Show the full season no matter what.

So let's just hope Joss didn't give it a cliffhanger ending of any sort.

Joss tends to be pretty good at avoiding cliff-hangers. He likes to wrap up plots at the end of his seasons, and start fresh with the new season.

Except for Buffy season 2, season 4, season 5, and season 6.

and Angel season 1, season 3, season 4, and season 5

Bionic Monkey

I have no idea what the fuck you're trying to say there.

Balefuego

I had quoted the wrong post, it's fixed now!

Bionic Monkey

Balefuego wrote: »

I had quoted the wrong post, it's fixed now!

Okay, maybe my definition of "cliff hanger" is different than yours.

Season 1 of Battlestar Galactica is a cliff hanger. Killing Angel and stopping the apocalypse, then getting on a bus for LA is not a cliff hanger.

Season 3 of Angel is the only cliff hanger ending I can think of that Joss has ever done.

Balefuego

so angel getting locked in a box and dropped into the ocean at the end of season 3 isn't a cliffhanger?

the last scene of angel season 1 is darla's resurection, thats not a cliffhanger?

Bionic Monkey

Balefuego wrote: »

so angel getting locked in a box and dropped into the ocean at the end of season 3 isn't a cliffhanger?

Had that mixed up with season 4. Fixed my post now.

As for the Darla thing, that feels borderline to me.

Balefuego

then yes we have proufoundly different definitions of cliffhangers

shryke

If you think S5 of Angel is a cliff-hanger, your nuts.

Angel S1 and Angel S3 are the only real cliff-hangers.

The closest Buffy ever came was S6, and that was more "resolution with a slight tease at the end".

Balefuego

I'm not saying a cliffhanger can't be a viable ending

but angel season 5 counts in my book.

shryke

Balefuego wrote: »

I'm not saying a cliffhanger can't be a viable ending

but angel season 5 counts in my book.

Not even close. Angel S5 is not a cliff-hanger, it's an "Everyone Dies" ending.

Balefuego

and the entire Buffy season 4 finale was spent setting up the next season

Adam and the Initiative are stopped in the penultimate episode, the finale was aaaaall setup.

Balefuego

shryke wrote: »

Balefuego wrote: »

I'm not saying a cliffhanger can't be a viable ending

but angel season 5 counts in my book.

Not even close. Angel S5 is not a cliff-hanger, it's an "Everyone Dies" ending.

Joss would disagree with that, considering he's kept the story going past that point much like Buffy, in comic form.

shryke

Balefuego wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

Balefuego wrote: »

I'm not saying a cliffhanger can't be a viable ending

but angel season 5 counts in my book.

Not even close. Angel S5 is not a cliff-hanger, it's an "Everyone Dies" ending.

Joss would disagree with that, considering he's kept the story going past that point much like Buffy, in comic form.

Both of which kinda suck.

Angel S5 is an ending that you could, potentially, continue on afterwards. But that applies to the ending of almost any story. It's still and ending, not a cliff-hanger.

and the entire Buffy season 4 finale was spent setting up the next season

Adam and the Initiative are stopped in the penultimate episode, the finale was aaaaall setup.

The finale wasn't setup, the finale was sort of a one-off, with some resolution for the characters combined with a bit of foreshadowing.

_J_

shryke wrote: »

Both of which kinda suck.

Agreed. Neither Buffy nor Angel translate well into comics. I enjoy the pacing of the dialog in the show. Such pacing does not exist in comic form.

shryke

_J_ wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

Both of which kinda suck.

Agreed. Neither Buffy nor Angel translate well into comics. I enjoy the pacing of the dialog in the show. Such pacing does not exist in comic form.

I've also come to the opinion that the budget constraints of the show kept them from actually doing some of the stupider things they may have thought of. Nothing seems to be holding that back in the comics.

PantsB

shryke wrote: »

_J_ wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

Both of which kinda suck.

Agreed. Neither Buffy nor Angel translate well into comics. I enjoy the pacing of the dialog in the show. Such pacing does not exist in comic form.

I've also come to the opinion that the budget constraints of the show kept them from actually doing some of the stupider things they may have thought of. Nothing seems to be holding that back in the comics.

The comic version of shows tends to do that. And then if necessary its declared non-cannon. If Buffy were to ever come back I'm sure she would be de-lesbianized and such.

shryke

PantsB wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

_J_ wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

Both of which kinda suck.

Agreed. Neither Buffy nor Angel translate well into comics. I enjoy the pacing of the dialog in the show. Such pacing does not exist in comic form.

I've also come to the opinion that the budget constraints of the show kept them from actually doing some of the stupider things they may have thought of. Nothing seems to be holding that back in the comics.

The comic version of shows tends to do that. And then if necessary its declared non-cannon. If Buffy were to ever come back I'm sure she would be de-lesbianized and such.

Wait, Buffy's a lesbian now?? WTF?

Olivaw

I predict that this thread title will prove to be eerily prophetic

Kagera

So can I preorder the Complete Series DVD box set now or are we still laboring under the impression that this will last a season?

iguanacus

She's not really gay, so much as bi-curious. She was getting hard up for some loving, and the only guy around was Zander. So she started boffing one of the slayer-ettes.

Kagera

iguanacus wrote: »

She's not really gay, so much as bi-curious. She was getting hard up for some loving, and the only guy around was Zander. So she started boffing one of the slayer-ettes.

Oh that poor guy, he'll never get Buffy lovin'.

Robos A Go Go

I think the Buffy comic holds up better, but I do agree that the dramatic increase in the scope of Buffy and Angel's adventures make the two comics feel like huge departures from their respective series.

Also, since the characters have severed all ties to mundane life, it's harder to relate to them.

shryke

Robos A Go Go wrote: »

I think the Buffy comic holds up better, but I do agree that the dramatic increase in the scope of Buffy and Angel's adventures make the two comics feel like huge departures from their respective series.

Also, since the characters have severed all ties to mundane life, it's harder to relate to them.

I think this is what really hurt Buffy past like S4. (or even past S3)

She didn't feel like she was living anything close to a normal young persons life at all. She just Slayed, full time. And everyone else helped her. Full time. Real life was incidental.

Angel never really ran into this problem imo cause the whole show was kinda built from the start around these people being isolated from the real world in their weird little bubble.

ruzkin

After 4 years of BSG I can't take these promo shots seriously. I just glance at them and say "Wow, Galactica scrubs up real nice with some hardwood floors. Helo, nice suit!"

ElJeffe

Buffy was trying to relate to the real world all the way through Season 6 and partway into Season 7. She was a fast food cashier, for god's sake. Then she was a school counselor. The "How do I manage to lead a life when I have to slay?" thing was pronounced through the show's run - it just went from the demands of a high-school girl, to the demands of a college girl, to the demands of an autonomous adult.

Also, I like the Buffy comics, though they do stray from the formula substantially. And yeah, I guess 100-foot-tall Dawn is a bit silly. But I think it works, for what it is.

Balefuego

I think the Buffy comic is fantastic although the Angel series is just so-so

Kagera

ElJeffe wrote: »

Buffy was trying to relate to the real world all the way through Season 6 and partway into Season 7. She was a fast food cashier, for god's sake. Then she was a school counselor. The "How do I manage to lead a life when I have to slay?" thing was pronounced through the show's run - it just went from the demands of a high-school girl, to the demands of a college girl, to the demands of an autonomous adult.

Also, I like the Buffy comics, though they do stray from the formula substantially. And yeah, I guess 100-foot-tall Dawn is a bit silly. But I think it works, for what it is.

I can only wonder what happens when Dawn has a heavy flow day.

Robos A Go Go

shryke wrote: »

Robos A Go Go wrote: »

I think the Buffy comic holds up better, but I do agree that the dramatic increase in the scope of Buffy and Angel's adventures make the two comics feel like huge departures from their respective series.

Also, since the characters have severed all ties to mundane life, it's harder to relate to them.

I think this is what really hurt Buffy past like S4. (or even past S3)

She didn't feel like she was living anything close to a normal young persons life at all. She just Slayed, full time. And everyone else helped her. Full time. Real life was incidental.

Angel never really ran into this problem imo cause the whole show was kinda built from the start around these people being isolated from the real world in their weird little bubble.

For me, the going to school or having a 9-5 wasn't important. It was the relationships between the characters and how it felt more like a real friendship than what you usually see from bands of people fighting evil.

Having the characters sit around in their meeting place and talk about the big bad or whatever while making quips pretty much encapsulated what I liked about the shows, and I just don't see that in the comics now.

ElJeffe

Kagera wrote: »

ElJeffe wrote: »

Buffy was trying to relate to the real world all the way through Season 6 and partway into Season 7. She was a fast food cashier, for god's sake. Then she was a school counselor. The "How do I manage to lead a life when I have to slay?" thing was pronounced through the show's run - it just went from the demands of a high-school girl, to the demands of a college girl, to the demands of an autonomous adult.

Also, I like the Buffy comics, though they do stray from the formula substantially. And yeah, I guess 100-foot-tall Dawn is a bit silly. But I think it works, for what it is.

I can only wonder what happens when Dawn has a heavy flow day.

D:

Spoiler:

:winky:

Spoiler:

D: D:

shryke

Kagera wrote: »

ElJeffe wrote: »

Buffy was trying to relate to the real world all the way through Season 6 and partway into Season 7. She was a fast food cashier, for god's sake. Then she was a school counselor. The "How do I manage to lead a life when I have to slay?" thing was pronounced through the show's run - it just went from the demands of a high-school girl, to the demands of a college girl, to the demands of an autonomous adult.

Also, I like the Buffy comics, though they do stray from the formula substantially. And yeah, I guess 100-foot-tall Dawn is a bit silly. But I think it works, for what it is.

I can only wonder what happens when Dawn has a heavy flow day.

Like a red oil spill.

Also, there's a tsunami. Lots of dead Indonisians.

Buttcleft

shryke wrote: »

Kagera wrote: »

ElJeffe wrote: »

Buffy was trying to relate to the real world all the way through Season 6 and partway into Season 7. She was a fast food cashier, for god's sake. Then she was a school counselor. The "How do I manage to lead a life when I have to slay?" thing was pronounced through the show's run - it just went from the demands of a high-school girl, to the demands of a college girl, to the demands of an autonomous adult.

Also, I like the Buffy comics, though they do stray from the formula substantially. And yeah, I guess 100-foot-tall Dawn is a bit silly. But I think it works, for what it is.

I can only wonder what happens when Dawn has a heavy flow day.

Like a red oil spill.

Also, there's a tsunami. Lots of dead Indonisians.

We have discovered the origin of the red tide phenomenon

CommunistCow

Somehow that first trailer makes me want to watch the show less than I did before. It looks like it will be episodic crap.

VoodooV

I have no problem admitting I'm completely lost in the Angel comic. I'm still liking the Buffy comic though.

As for Dollhouse. It certainly doesn't grab me...but I'm curious enough and have faith in Whedon to watch a season

Olivaw

I'm amazed anyone gave him the money to make it

I mean, have you read that premise? If people didn't take to Firefly how are they supposed to take to that

Fencingsax

Olivaw wrote: »

I'm amazed anyone gave him the money to make it

I mean, have you read that premise? If people didn't take to Firefly how are they supposed to take to that

Then again, how could anyone not take to "Cowboys and Courtesans... in Space!"?

theSquid

Olivaw wrote: »

I'm amazed anyone gave him the money to make it

I mean, have you read that premise? If people didn't take to Firefly how are they supposed to take to that

It's about an American woman that has sex and shoots guns. That usually seals the deal for most of you guys, right?

GoodOmens

Fencingsax wrote: »

Olivaw wrote: »

I'm amazed anyone gave him the money to make it

I mean, have you read that premise? If people didn't take to Firefly how are they supposed to take to that

Then again, how could anyone not take to "Cowboys and Courtesans... in Space!"?

Right, because we all know how well that turned out. A group of devoted fans does not a successful series make. I figure Dollhouse has 4 weeks and it's done. They'll replace it with some game show that costs a third as much to make and will get 3 times as many viewers.