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Confederate Heritage

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Posts

  • MagnumCTMagnumCT Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    MagnumCT wrote: »
    I can say honestly that I've never, in a one on one situation, ever been asked, "What do y'all want to do?"
    I have! In fact, I (by myself) went to JiffyLube today (Indianapolis, IN) and the young lady that went over my services with me asked "will y'all be wantin' our JiffyLube Signacha Oil Change today?" I had to ask her to repeat herself. She then went on to use the word "winders", as the plural form of "window."

    /tangent

    ...well, fuck. OK, maybe I have been in such a situation, but illiterate folks aside, most of us don't do that!

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Kagera wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Kagera wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Sooo...if someone made a thread that was referred positively to the Confederacy, it'd fill with hate against the old South quicker.
    Well yeah because those titles attract different kinds of people.

    There's always going to be two sides in every thread, the realists and the absolutists.
    This is like how everyone's grandfather in Germany was a medic, right?

    Same way all the Allies were great people and did nothing bad except for the racial discrimination, looting, and other stuff.

    See that's what you sound like to me. As if had you been raised in pre-Civil War South you'd nobly stand against slavery with pure righteousness and moral perfection.
    That wasn't actually the post I was trying to reply to.

  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    MagnumCT wrote: »
    MagnumCT wrote: »
    I can say honestly that I've never, in a one on one situation, ever been asked, "What do y'all want to do?"
    I have! In fact, I (by myself) went to JiffyLube today (Indianapolis, IN) and the young lady that went over my services with me asked "will y'all be wantin' our JiffyLube Signacha Oil Change today?" I had to ask her to repeat herself. She then went on to use the word "winders", as the plural form of "window."

    /tangent

    ...well, fuck. OK, maybe I have been in such a situation, but illiterate folks aside, most of us don't do that!
    I know, I know. Most of y'all are alright. :wink:

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Bama wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    In their defense, this is coming from people who think "y'all" is a word.
    Y'all is a fine word; it's a contraction between you and all formed in the standard manner. It also fulfills a needed function, as modern English otherwise lacks a second person plural personal pronoun. So lay off y'all.
    If that were how anyone actually used it, that would make sense. Except they don't, they use it in the singular, too.
    Well that's exactly how I use it. I honestly haven't heard anyone use "y'all" to refer to a single person outside of television and film.
    I keep hearing this. I find it strange that the scant handful of times I've been in the South, I heard it used like this all the fucking time, yet lifelong Southerners have never in their lives heard it.

    Strange, indeed.

  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Six pack on a dick Registered User regular
    edited February 2009

    And if you want to get into what it actually means, it means "We are the Confederate army/navy."

    read: we support treason. with violence. to preserve slavery.
    The south didn't give "aid and comfort" to the enemy. The south was the enemy. It also didn't attempt to overthrow the government of the US, simply to remove itself from it. You can't commit treason against a country you're not a member of. Now, whether the Union recognized the Confederacy as a separate country is another story.

    But considering that you seem to be just another northerner who thinks he's better than everyone in the south, it's kind of pointless debating it with you.

    h1DI1.jpg
    All my fuckin life I lived a normal fuckin life
  • Limp mooseLimp moose Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Hachface wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    I'd say that the meanings ascribed to it by the people who choose to fly it are what it actually means.

    Sure, you can say that. Absent any actual practical real-world experience with how symbols and communication actually work, that is. Have you done any reading on semiotics? Would you care to actually back up your startlingly bold assertion that you know who ascribes meaning to symbols?
    Considering there is such a heated debate over what it actually means, who are you to decide? If you're allowed to decide that, since racists fly it, it must be racist, I'm allowed to decide that since people fly it who simply see it as a symbol of southern life, it must simply be a symbol of southern life.

    And if you want to get into what it actually means, it means "We are the Confederate army/navy."

    Funny that you call this a "debate." Many people in this thread have pointed out how inseparable the ideas of "Confederacy" and "slavery" are; PantsB went so far as to produce primary historical sources that demonstrate how slavery was not only the primary reason for secession but practically the only issue the Confederacy cared about. You, on the other hand, just assert that it can mean something else. You make this assertion over and over again. We're still waiting for an argument.

    The argument is that they do not agree with you that is what it means. It is not a rational argument. But they believe it with the same conviction you believe the opposite. Good luck changing their minds. The only way you are going to is by forcing them not to grow up in the south.

  • MagnumCTMagnumCT Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I guess I have to make the distinction in my head that there are many, many, many people here who, if given the choice between an afternoon spent together and eye surgery, I'd choose the latter. But can any of you honestly say that you don't think the same about the residents of your town/state/region?

  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Bama wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    In their defense, this is coming from people who think "y'all" is a word.
    Y'all is a fine word; it's a contraction between you and all formed in the standard manner. It also fulfills a needed function, as modern English otherwise lacks a second person plural personal pronoun. So lay off y'all.
    If that were how anyone actually used it, that would make sense. Except they don't, they use it in the singular, too.
    Well that's exactly how I use it. I honestly haven't heard anyone use "y'all" to refer to a single person outside of television and film.
    I keep hearing this. I find it strange that the scant handful of times I've been in the South, I heard it used like this all the fucking time, yet lifelong Southerners have never in their lives heard it.

    Strange, indeed.
    I find it difficult to believe, given that I STILL use it in that manner occasionally. I didn't pick it up from Dukes of Hazard, people.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. On Hiatus!

    Any gamers in the Danville, PA area? PM me if you're interested in some tabletop gaming.
  • thisisntwallythisisntwally Registered User regular
    edited February 2009

    And if you want to get into what it actually means, it means "We are the Confederate army/navy."

    read: we support treason. with violence. to preserve slavery.
    The south didn't give "aid and comfort" to the enemy. The south was the enemy. It also didn't attempt to overthrow the government of the US, simply to remove itself from it. You can't commit treason against a country you're not a member of. Now, whether the Union recognized the Confederacy as a separate country is another story.

    But considering that you seem to be just another northerner who thinks he's better than everyone in the south, it's kind of pointless debating it with you.

    whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States

    remind me...who shot first?

    edit: it was the war bit I'm concerned with. and the owing allegiance.

    #someshit
  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Six pack on a dick Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Bama wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    In their defense, this is coming from people who think "y'all" is a word.
    Y'all is a fine word; it's a contraction between you and all formed in the standard manner. It also fulfills a needed function, as modern English otherwise lacks a second person plural personal pronoun. So lay off y'all.
    If that were how anyone actually used it, that would make sense. Except they don't, they use it in the singular, too.
    Well that's exactly how I use it. I honestly haven't heard anyone use "y'all" to refer to a single person outside of television and film.
    I keep hearing this. I find it strange that the scant handful of times I've been in the South, I heard it used like this all the fucking time, yet lifelong Southerners have never in their lives heard it.

    Strange, indeed.
    They're doing it to annoy you, so you'll go back to wherever you came from.

    h1DI1.jpg
    All my fuckin life I lived a normal fuckin life
  • MagnumCTMagnumCT Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Bama wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    In their defense, this is coming from people who think "y'all" is a word.
    Y'all is a fine word; it's a contraction between you and all formed in the standard manner. It also fulfills a needed function, as modern English otherwise lacks a second person plural personal pronoun. So lay off y'all.
    If that were how anyone actually used it, that would make sense. Except they don't, they use it in the singular, too.
    Well that's exactly how I use it. I honestly haven't heard anyone use "y'all" to refer to a single person outside of television and film.
    I keep hearing this. I find it strange that the scant handful of times I've been in the South, I heard it used like this all the fucking time, yet lifelong Southerners have never in their lives heard it.

    Strange, indeed.

    Y'all keep meeting the wrong people. I mean, this is probably in convenience stores and other shops, yeah? You think those are our valedictorians you're talking to?

  • HachfaceHachface Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    But considering that you seem to be just another northerner who thinks he's better than everyone in the south, it's kind of pointless debating it with you.

    OK this is some serious bullshit right here. Nobody in this thread has said anything like that (except maybe Thanatos; his "y'all" comment was out of line). In fact there have been several southerners in this thread who have agreed that waving the Confederate flag is bad. Stop trying to obscure the issue.

  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    "Y'all" while perhaps not morally repugnant is annoying as hell, completely unnecessary (see vosotros) and illogical if broken down since the phrase "you all" is not used. That has about as much to do with the Confederate flag as "wicked" has to do with Boston Puritanism into the mid-1900s

    11793-1.png
    Spoiler:
  • Dunadan019Dunadan019 Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Hachface wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    In their defense, this is coming from people who think "y'all" is a word.
    Y'all is a fine word; it's a contraction between you and all formed in the standard manner. It also fulfills a needed function, as modern English otherwise lacks a second person plural personal pronoun. So lay off y'all.
    If that were how anyone actually used it, that would make sense. Except they don't, they use it in the singular, too.

    I will cede that using y'all as a singular is indefensible.

    y'all is singular.

    alls y'all is plural.

    just to clear that up.

  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I'll specifically keep an ear out for it the next time I'm back home. I'm certainly not lying about my experience.

    "Despite all the bitching, if Diablo 3 sucks, I will eat my own cock. Counter-claim: If Diablo 3 does not suck, I will have a list of whiners who need to eat cocks." - Zen Vulgarity
  • MagnumCTMagnumCT Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    PantsB wrote: »
    "Y'all" while perhaps not morally repugnant is annoying as hell, completely unnecessary (see vosotros) and illogical if broken down since the phrase "you all" is not used. That has about as much to do with the Confederate flag as "wicked" has to do with Boston Puritanism into the mid-1900s

    And what is your preferred method of addressing a group? And do you use this phrase 100% of the time without deviation?

  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    MagnumCT wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    "Y'all" while perhaps not morally repugnant is annoying as hell, completely unnecessary (see vosotros) and illogical if broken down since the phrase "you all" is not used. That has about as much to do with the Confederate flag as "wicked" has to do with Boston Puritanism into the mid-1900s

    And what is your preferred method of addressing a group? And do you use this phrase 100% of the time without deviation?
    "You guys" seems popular.

    "Despite all the bitching, if Diablo 3 sucks, I will eat my own cock. Counter-claim: If Diablo 3 does not suck, I will have a list of whiners who need to eat cocks." - Zen Vulgarity
  • MagnumCTMagnumCT Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Perhaps we should pick up "youse guys."

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited February 2009

    And if you want to get into what it actually means, it means "We are the Confederate army/navy."
    read: we support treason. with violence. to preserve slavery.
    The south didn't give "aid and comfort" to the enemy. The south was the enemy. It also didn't attempt to overthrow the government of the US, simply to remove itself from it. You can't commit treason against a country you're not a member of. Now, whether the Union recognized the Confederacy as a separate country is another story.

    But considering that you seem to be just another northerner who thinks he's better than everyone in the south, it's kind of pointless debating it with you.
    Well, from the perspective of the Union, they committed treason when they fired on a U.S. military base, and seized U.S. military assets. And then, of course, there's the fact that the South was basically a client state of the North, the ultimate welfare queen, if you will; you don't get to just take your money and run. In addition, the South didn't even try to negotiate, they just decided "fuck all y'all, we want our own, personal black people" and went to war over it. This isn't quite East Timor we're talking about, here.

  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    MagnumCT wrote: »
    Perhaps we should pick up "youse guys."
    That one I do find annoying.

    "Despite all the bitching, if Diablo 3 sucks, I will eat my own cock. Counter-claim: If Diablo 3 does not suck, I will have a list of whiners who need to eat cocks." - Zen Vulgarity
  • MagnumCTMagnumCT Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Does it feel odd when you address a mixed group, or a group of females that way?

  • thisisntwallythisisntwally Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    MagnumCT wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    "Y'all" while perhaps not morally repugnant is annoying as hell, completely unnecessary (see vosotros) and illogical if broken down since the phrase "you all" is not used. That has about as much to do with the Confederate flag as "wicked" has to do with Boston Puritanism into the mid-1900s

    And what is your preferred method of addressing a group? And do you use this phrase 100% of the time without deviation?

    I can't speak for pants, but I use the word 'you', as it is the plural form of the word 'you'. If there is a southerner in the room I have been known to use the words 'you (plural)' to avoid confusion.

    #someshit
  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    MagnumCT wrote: »
    Does it feel odd when you address a mixed group, or a group of females that way?
    It doesn't to me. I've also heard more than a few people address a woman as "dude," though I can't see myself using that one.

    "Despite all the bitching, if Diablo 3 sucks, I will eat my own cock. Counter-claim: If Diablo 3 does not suck, I will have a list of whiners who need to eat cocks." - Zen Vulgarity
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Bama wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    If that were how anyone actually used it, that would make sense. Except they don't, they use it in the singular, too.
    Well that's exactly how I use it. I honestly haven't heard anyone use "y'all" to refer to a single person outside of television and film.
    I keep hearing this. I find it strange that the scant handful of times I've been in the South, I heard it used like this all the fucking time, yet lifelong Southerners have never in their lives heard it.

    Strange, indeed.
    They're doing it to annoy you, so you'll go back to wherever you came from.
    *adds "passive-aggressive" to list of Southern stereotypes*

  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited February 2009

    And if you want to get into what it actually means, it means "We are the Confederate army/navy."

    read: we support treason. with violence. to preserve slavery.
    The south didn't give "aid and comfort" to the enemy. The south was the enemy. It also didn't attempt to overthrow the government of the US, simply to remove itself from it. You can't commit treason against a country you're not a member of. Now, whether the Union recognized the Confederacy as a separate country is another story.

    But considering that you seem to be just another northerner who thinks he's better than everyone in the south, it's kind of pointless debating it with you.

    Man, you really need to learn what treason is or something. It is verifiable fact that every single Confederate state had ratified the U.S. constitution, basically agreeing that the document bound them together with the other states and that they and their citizens would abide by the law set forth by it. By breaking away unlawfully and then waging war against the United States, in contravention of their earlier agreement, they committed treason. How fucking hard is it for you to understand this? There's no wiggle room, or different perspective, or mitigating circumstance. They broke the law they'd agreed to abide by and turned on the nation they'd sworn allegiance to.

    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Bama wrote: »
    MagnumCT wrote: »
    Does it feel odd when you address a mixed group, or a group of females that way?
    It doesn't to me. I've also heard more than a few people address a woman as "dude," though I can't see myself using that one.
    I have totally addressed women as "dude."

  • GooeyGooey Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I am from Texas, home of y'all, and I don't think I've ever seen (heard) it used in a singular manner.

    "All y'all" (As in "All y'all need to shut the shit up!")is actually more common I think than "y'all" on it's own.

    919UOwT.png
  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Bama wrote: »
    MagnumCT wrote: »
    Does it feel odd when you address a mixed group, or a group of females that way?
    It doesn't to me. I've also heard more than a few people address a woman as "dude," though I can't see myself using that one.
    I have totally addressed women as "dude."
    Then I'm going to have to ask you to stop hurling those linguistic stones. :P

    edit: I mean, who doesn't know to use "dudette?"

    "Despite all the bitching, if Diablo 3 sucks, I will eat my own cock. Counter-claim: If Diablo 3 does not suck, I will have a list of whiners who need to eat cocks." - Zen Vulgarity
  • MagnumCTMagnumCT Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Suggest my replacement. I am a progressive hick, and I wish to shed my (reddened at the neck) skin. What shall I use instead of "y'all?"

  • thisisntwallythisisntwally Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    wwtMask wrote: »

    And if you want to get into what it actually means, it means "We are the Confederate army/navy."

    read: we support treason. with violence. to preserve slavery.
    The south didn't give "aid and comfort" to the enemy. The south was the enemy. It also didn't attempt to overthrow the government of the US, simply to remove itself from it. You can't commit treason against a country you're not a member of. Now, whether the Union recognized the Confederacy as a separate country is another story.

    But considering that you seem to be just another northerner who thinks he's better than everyone in the south, it's kind of pointless debating it with you.

    Man, you really need to learn what treason is or something. It is verifiable fact that every single Confederate state had ratified the U.S. constitution, basically agreeing that the document bound them together with the other states and that they and their citizens would abide by the law set forth by it. By breaking away unlawfully and then waging war against the United States, in contravention of their earlier agreement, they committed treason. How fucking hard is it for you to understand this? There's no wiggle room, or different perspective, or mitigating circumstance. They broke the law they'd agreed to abide by and turned on the nation they'd sworn allegiance to.

    zing of the day

    #someshit
  • thisisntwallythisisntwally Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    MagnumCT wrote: »
    Suggest my replacement. I am a progressive hick, and I wish to shed my (reddened at the neck) skin. What shall I use instead of "y'all?"

    you

    edit: also maybe don't stare at one person while you do it. its not perfect...

    #someshit
  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I refuse to believe that Indiana is the only state in which people are using y'all when addressing a single individual. ohgoddontletitbetrue

  • MagnumCTMagnumCT Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Give it to me in a sentence or two.

  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Six pack on a dick Registered User regular
    edited February 2009

    And if you want to get into what it actually means, it means "We are the Confederate army/navy."

    read: we support treason. with violence. to preserve slavery.
    The south didn't give "aid and comfort" to the enemy. The south was the enemy. It also didn't attempt to overthrow the government of the US, simply to remove itself from it. You can't commit treason against a country you're not a member of. Now, whether the Union recognized the Confederacy as a separate country is another story.

    But considering that you seem to be just another northerner who thinks he's better than everyone in the south, it's kind of pointless debating it with you.

    whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States

    remind me...who shot first?
    Again, when the war started, the south was the CSA. Fort Sumter was seen as an enemy occupation of sovereign territory. What the Union thought of it only mattered after they'd won the war.

    And again, saying it was "fought over slavery" is like saying WW2 was "fought over land." Slavery was how the southern economy ran, and having it suddenly removed would literally plunge the south into poverty. Kind of like what happened when the North won the war, and the South was plunged into poverty. Now, having your economy based on free labor provided by slaves wasn't exactly the most humanitarian thing to do, but do you actually expect half a country to just say "Sure, we'll turn into a bunch of poor dirt farmers for the next two centuries" without putting up a fight?

    h1DI1.jpg
    All my fuckin life I lived a normal fuckin life
  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Six pack on a dick Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Bama wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    If that were how anyone actually used it, that would make sense. Except they don't, they use it in the singular, too.
    Well that's exactly how I use it. I honestly haven't heard anyone use "y'all" to refer to a single person outside of television and film.
    I keep hearing this. I find it strange that the scant handful of times I've been in the South, I heard it used like this all the fucking time, yet lifelong Southerners have never in their lives heard it.

    Strange, indeed.
    They're doing it to annoy you, so you'll go back to wherever you came from.
    *adds "passive-aggressive" to list of Southern stereotypes*
    They learned it from you.

    h1DI1.jpg
    All my fuckin life I lived a normal fuckin life
  • Dunadan019Dunadan019 Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Gooey wrote: »
    I am from Texas, home of y'all, and I don't think I've ever seen (heard) it used in a singular manner.

    "All y'all" (As in "All y'all need to shut the shit up!")is actually more common I think than "y'all" on it's own.

    thats cause y'all is singular. despite the obvious contraction it isn't plural.

  • MagnumCTMagnumCT Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I already get accused to not "bein' from around here" due to the fact that I pronounce my "E"s the way they should be pronounced, and not like "I"s. For instance, "I write with a pen, I sew with a pin" and "Get."

  • MagnumCTMagnumCT Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    But "you all" indicates more than one person. It indicates all of the group.

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Bama wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Bama wrote: »
    MagnumCT wrote: »
    Does it feel odd when you address a mixed group, or a group of females that way?
    It doesn't to me. I've also heard more than a few people address a woman as "dude," though I can't see myself using that one.
    I have totally addressed women as "dude."
    Then I'm going to have to ask you to stop hurling those linguistic stones. :P

    edit: I mean, who doesn't know to use "dudette?"
    'cism.

  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    MagnumCT wrote: »
    I already get accused to not "bein' from around here" due to the fact that I pronounce my "E"s the way they should be pronounced, and not like "I"s. For instance, "I write with a pen, I sew with a pin" and "Get."
    I was ordering at a restaurant not five miles from the house where I grew up and the waitress said "Are you from around here?"

    "Despite all the bitching, if Diablo 3 sucks, I will eat my own cock. Counter-claim: If Diablo 3 does not suck, I will have a list of whiners who need to eat cocks." - Zen Vulgarity
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