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This is so much bullshit. Under the Constitution, the federal government has the right to override any state legislation with legislation of its own. This was codified when the Constitution was first created. There is no clause in the document that says you can just up and leave because a vote didn't go your way.
It has been stated numerous times that NO ONE HERE IS SAYING YOU SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO FLY THE CONFEDERATE FLAG.
It is however going to (rightly) cause people to assume you are a racist and/or jackass because symbols do not exist in a fucking vacuum, and the flag historically symbolizes a nation which by it's own admission (reference PantsBs posts again please) was founded on the principle of oppressing a race of people.
You can think it means whatever you like. That doesn't excuse you from social consequences, just like I think kicking you in the nuts is an acceptable form of greeting doesn't excuse me from being jailed for assault.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
perhaps they could fly it to remind themselves of what their traitorous, bigoted ancestors did, reenforcing their personal vows not to follow in their forefathers racist, ignorant, treasonous footsteps? I could get behind that.
Because it was the flag used by those who wanted to protect slavery. That's it. Yeah, they might have thought it was OK, because it was their time and blah blah blah. This is not the 19th fucking century, though. Everyone born now knows sure fucking knows it's wrong, or better, and yet some still want that fucking flag.
It's still means "fuck black people." It never meant anything else.
Because 9% think it's too high, and shouldn't be cut! 9% of respondents could not fully
get their arms around the question. There should be another box you can check for, "I
have utterly no idea what you're talking about. Please, God, don't ask for my input."
In other words: They tried to force the majority of the nation to go along with their views. They tried to manipulated the territores to form goverments more to their liking, against the majorities of said territories. They tried to meddle in the internal affairs of other states(the fugitive slave law).
When this failed they, instead of accepting the will of the majority, they seceded and used violence to preserve their views.The USA was a democracy and the South lost the vote on slavery. HOW IN THE HELL DOES THIS MAKE THEM THE OPPRESSED? HOW THE HELL DOES THIS GIVE THEM THE RIGHT TO SECEDE?
My point is that your justifications are invalid. If we followed their example, the red states could just up and leave because they didn't like how the election turned out, and your logic says it's just fine. How can you not see that this line of thinking would break up the United States. Fuck, it already has once.
I've not apoligized for anything the South, North, or America as a whole has done, is doing, or will do.
Also, it's been brought up already that the flag you keep referring to as the "Confederate flag" was never even endorsed by the Confederacy. It's known as the rebel flag.
I don't think it was an issue of the South feeling underrepresented at the time of Lincoln's election that caused succession. I'm pretty sure it was the future threat of underrepresentation, since many in the South believed that Lincoln wouldn't continue the tradition of admitting 1 free state and 1 slave state to keep shit equal.
"That flag" is the most popular symbol of the Confederacy. Does anyone here want to dispute that point?
Man, you are this dense. Sure, the southerners could've left the country en masse. That's not what happened; what they did was claim that their state lands were no longer a part of the United States. Please tell me you see the difference.
What the fuck does this have to do with calling the Confederates traitors when, by all objective facts, they were? Their secession war failed, ergo they were traitors to the country.
In other words: You are allowed to leave the country, but you are not allowed to take the country with you when you go. And 4 years ago people said they where going to move out of the US. They did not say that G.W. Bush was illegitimate and that they didn't have to obey the federal goverment as a result. In other words no one tried to usurp the federal goverments authority and activily rebel against it.
Lincoln hadn't done much other than say that he was opposed to the extension of slavery. He was a fucking moderate. That is why they chose him instead of the more hard line Republicans.
The thing is, they were never actually separated from the United States. That's what the war was for, to establish their separation. Once they were brought back into the fold, we would've been within our rights to try the leaders for treason.
It's almost as if history gets written by the victor.
I could argue that point, but, as was brought up in a post earlier (that I just don't feel like looking for atm) since I was born and raised IN the south, and you likely weren't, we view things differently and it wouldn't solve a thing, nor would either of us think any differently about the situation anyway.
The Confederacy was built on oppressing others, not rebellion from oppression.
edit(cut huge quote tree)
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Alright Mr. Appeal-to-Authority, is that flag used a symbol of the Confederacy now, y/n?
the indians think you must have mistyped that part.
@Wonder_Hippie: of course it is, haven't you watched any movies lately?
The USA has lived long enough to look back and say "WTF is wrong with me!?" Most colonial powers also had that moment. The CSA lasted for less than five years and never said "Why the hell did we ever support THAT!?"
No. The United States of America was built on the concept of "All Men are Created Equal." In the course of the United States history the people the US and the US government did many bad things to Native Americans, but this was not the foundation or justification of the US.
The Confederacy existed solely because of slavery.
No it is not. You obviously don't know the meaning of the word oppression.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
You just described all government. Help, I'm being oppressed because they won't let me steal money from banks.
Well I guess we'll have to form our own country.
Timewarp 150 years into the future:
"What do you mean this "Let's-Murder-MatthasaProblem-berg flag represents pointless violence? They were being oppressed!"
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
That's moronic. Your definition could just as easily apply to people who go to jail.
Actual Play: Mage: the Awakening - At the Edge of All Things
I came to this thread after seeing the Awesome Post, and I am not disappointed!