I'm waiting for people to point me in the direction of where the game clearly states, "Black people are like this everywhere."
You guys are way too caught up in reading between the lines.
white mans guilt, perhaps?
Big picture question: is this only being dicussed because it is a game? Do the same exact thing in a movie and no one notices.
No, the issue here is that racism and other such associated issues are 'grown up' issues and gamers want to legitimize their medium by having games that are racist or thought provoking. How many times do you have to hear 'hollywood quality writing' or other bollocks before we realize that games are just games, not a higher level of artform such as cinema - and get on with things.
Making Resi 5 out to be racist, or looking upon it with a more powerful level of scrutiny, is their way of heightening the medium for themselves.
You never get to write about politics or racism or issues of society as a games journalist. I know. And you want to. You want to justify yourself. This is their way. And that includes N'Gai who himself is not exempt from such selfish attitudes, whether he knows it or not.
The massive hole in your argument is that something doesn't have to be art to be racist (or be construed as such). I wouldn't call a KKK lynching "art."
That's cause you're intelligent and understand these concepts. I do not think many other people do. I mean, this is just Islam is the Light all over again.
You go looking for racism, you'll probably find it.
The problem is that this isn't a leap of logic comparable to someone interpreting baby coos as Islam or seeing Jesus in a plate of spaghetti. Robbed of context, the action in Resident Evil apparently shows images of two white people killing demonic and primitive black people. If you don't know the complex plot of the game (or realize Sheva is black, which I didn't and I'm pretty aware of what was going on in the game), even intelligent people could see this badly.
In what way would they see this badly? Are white people not allowed to shoot black people ever without it being racist? I dont think thats racist. Is it? I can't keep up with this politically correct madness that people have.
It's not just that they're shooting black people, it's that they're shooting (what could be seen as) caricatures of black people. They look and act like evil demons. The Hotel Rwanda example was pretty apt... no one had a problem with it because the characters there weren't one-dimensional. (Not to mention based on actual events.)
Well that woman is an idiot. Who the fuck would buy thier 8 year old a resident evil game.
Hell what shop would sell it to her, knowing it was for a child?
You'd be shocked at how many moms bought their young kids GTA games, even after being warned it's not really appropriate, and then threw a fit afterward.
In what way would they see this badly? Are white people not allowed to shoot black people ever without it being racist? I dont think thats racist. Is it? I can't keep up with this politically correct madness that people have.
Maybe by not portraying them in a way that makes me think "here they come, thick as grass and black as thunder".
Okay sorry for making black people black and zombie hordes zombie hordes.
Racism is bad, this is not racism. White person kills a black person /= racism.
Edit on the general note of racism, I as a white male, do not feel any pity for africans for what my ancestors may or may not have done 100 years ago.
That's probably because you're not very intelligent.
So wait, people are supposed to feel bad for the wrongs of their ancestors generations back? In that case, anyone here of English blood can go ahead and apologize to me for the enslavement of my ancestors in the 1600s.
Actually... don't worry about it, because it would be completely unreasonable for me to expect anyone to feel bad for something their long-dead ancestors did to my long-dead ancestors hundreds of years before any of us were even born.
You don't have to mean it, but you have to say it if you want to be accepted in today's society.
You do realize how racist that is, right?
Nonsense, my sarcastic support of political correctness applies to all ancestral slave-owners equally.
You do realize that not every single white person is descendant from slave owners?
Sombody alert the news!
Wait, where do I check my ancestral slave-owner status? xbox live profile? windows control panel?
And? No one here has implied the game should be banned. We're simply stating that it deals with a sensitive issue, possibly without a lot of tact, and that there will probably be fallout from that. Including, shockingly enough, people possibly finding the content offensive/objectionable/shocking and choosing not to buy it.
Please, you and I both know that the fallout from this is more outcry at the need to regulate the content of games. There will be people attempting to use hate crime legislation to censor this, and open up a whole can of worms on what can be used to censor game content. If you don't seriously see this coming you're not dealing with reality.
...and that doesn't make you think it might have been a good idea on Capcom's part to think about how they could have handled this better, if in fact it IS poorly handled? Besides, I'm not saying that won't be some people's reaction. That's ALWAYS some idiot's reaction to content they personally find offensive, in any medium. I'm just asking you not to put words in my mouth, because I'm NOT saying it should be banned even if it IS horribly, horribly racist. Jesus, I'm not even saying it IS racist, and I'd have to read the thread carefully to see if anyone actually has. Most of us are just saying "And Capcom didn't see this coming? Really? There's a pretty clear connection to make here." and I don't think that should be a contentious statement at all.
The point is, once you give in to this charge, there is going to be a feeding frenzy by every agenda driven group out there looking to make some noise and get offended at something. I'm just trying to tell all the people who are making a big deal out of this, that this is where they're heading, and maybe they should consider that before they take their pitches and forks and charge Capcom's castle.
Pretty much this. It might not be racist in intent, but I just have no concept of how anyone with two brain cells to rub together couldn't see the reason it how it could be interpreted that way, possibly even with some validity depending on how the final product turns out.
The point is, once you give in to this charge, there is going to be a feeding frenzy by every agenda driven group out there looking to make some noise and get offended at something. I'm just trying to tell all the people who are making a big deal out of this, that this is where they're heading, and maybe they should consider that before they take their pitches and forks and charge Capcom's castle.
Seeing how RE5 could be interpreted as racist by reasonable people =/= thinking RE5 is racist =/= supporting banning RE5.
Every step of the logical train you seem to be following is disjointed. I can see how RE5 would be seen as being racist without finding it objectionable myself. I could think RE5 was as racist as a Klan rally and not want to see it banned. No one here has even MENTIONED banning the game or storming Capcom's castle with a boycott or anything. We're just saying, what rock do you have to live under to not se how this could be construed as racist by a large portion of the market they're releasing it in?
If this game is actually racist (which it may be), I'm wondering why everybody cares so much.
Because people are going to get riled up about this game and then take up their pitchforks against a lot more games. Remember, after the Hot Coffee crapola there were close to a dozen states that passed laws criminalizing the sale of mature games to minors (or similar). Fortunately they were all struck down.
Anyway, the point is the lack of foresight in this game is going to cause a lot of gamers headaches.
Edit: And spamfilter, we're not advocating neutering the game. If Capcom had depicted Sheva as an actual African rather than someone with at least two generations' worth of white genes in their system and done nothing else, we would have avoided most of the controversy.
By burying your heads in the sand and jerking off to how enlightened you all are because you don't think a videogame can be racist (and they can be so it's honestly baffling that anyone would think that), you're really ignoring the possible implications and the feelings of, like, real people who may or may not be oversensitive.
I'm not saying Capcom is a bunch of racists (but they're Japanese so they probably are!) or that they intentionally made a game denying the humanity of black folks everywhere, but if you actually read the quote in the OP, it's not just "Oh, the zombies are bad so all black people are bad."
Yes, we know Africa really does suffer from violence and destructive social upheaval. No, it's not really the best place to live.
But in the end, the decisions about the depiction of the people that live there are in the hands of the developers. Whatever was intended or was not intended, the responsibility rests with Capcom because they made choices about their depictions of the uninfected. And for most, even the line between the uninfected and the infected will be extremely blurry given how capable of normal behavior they can seem. Even in the demo we see a man giving speeches on a megaphone and riling up a mob as they execute a man (who, not being a bad guy, obviously speaks English and I imagine Japanese in the Japanese version).
You're all really doing a disservice to everyone but Capcom here. It's true we don't have the full game and the full picture, but to instantly write every negative reaction off as "stupid" and "reactionary with no basis in reality" is as stupid as covering your ears and yelling that we can't hear you.
I just really cannot get behind it. Nobody would be upset at all if the setting was really similar but it took place in the Middle-East, because it's alright for them to be portrayed as crazed barbarians. I am, quite frankly, sick of the African-American/German/Canadian/British racist debate because we're probably at a point in our society where racism is as rare and uncommon as it can get. I love killing zombies. I love going into third-world countries and wiping out the local populace under the guise of being some good guy mass-murderer. I also love Africa because it's a beautiful country with lots of interesting things going on, along with a lot of brutality.
I also love zombies more than I love anything else in life. I don't understand why people think all black people have to be portrayed in a positive light. Bad shit happens in the world and bad shit happens in Africa. Does there have to be a massive physical difference in the appearance of your enemies before them being black is alright? Are black people so mindless that the mental sickness that comes via zombification doesn't matter because they're black? The entire situations bothers me more than any racism because none of this would be an issue if they were white. And the only reason people are complaining is because the black people look like black people with La Plaga features.
The fact that the media is going to jump on this and tear it to shreds doesn't change any of that for me, because superficial media uproar isn't going to change my opinion. I think it's pretty goddamn condescending when anything not involving white people can be called racist so easily - the entire world doesn't need to be coddled and protected and thinking it does seems approaching racist, too. We're not the only adult race around, folks.
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KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
Pretty much this. It might not be racist in intent, but I just have no concept of how anyone with two brain cells to rub together couldn't see the reason it how it could be interpreted that way, possibly even with some validity depending on how the final product turns out.
I guess for me, it's not that I can't see it, it's just that I am sick of seeing these things happen because 85% of the world are idiots.
So to make Pancake happy(cause she should be happy, she's a pancake):
This game can and will be seen as racist because of it's subject matter and the presentation thereof to people who will see scenes of the gameplay/cutscenes out of context.
If this game is actually racist (which it may be), I'm wondering why everybody cares so much.
I care about the way that gender, race etc are represented in the media because it affects how people think. When I see something I percieve as troublesome I point this out and criticise it. I'm sorry this is so offensive to you.
Jesus guys, I grew up in one of if not the most multi-cultural places in the world and guess what? Racism was still a fucking problem. It's not something consigned to the bin of history.
I am, quite frankly, sick of the African-American/German/Canadian/British racist debate
Breaking news, RE6 to be set in Toronto in the dead of winter, enemies will be hockey players and lumberjacks suffering from "beaver fever." Capcom feels that locating their new title in Canada will avoid any allegations of racism, because no one gives a shit about Canadians anyways.
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Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
If this game is actually racist (which it may be), I'm wondering why everybody cares so much.
I care about the way that gender, race etc are represented in the media because it affects how people think. When I see something I percieve as troublesome I point this out and criticise it.
So, does violence portrayed in games affect how people think about violence? If Capcom is racist for RE5, then is Valve homicidal sociopathic for L4D?
I am, quite frankly, sick of the African-American/German/Canadian/British racist debate
Breaking news, RE6 to be set in Toronto in the dead of winter, enemies will be hockey players and lumberjacks suffering from "beaver fever." Capcom feels that locating their new title in Canada will avoid any allegations of racism, because no one gives a shit about Canadians anyways.
This brought a giggle to me, wrapped in a beautiful package with a great big bow
The best thing to probably be done is just ignore this bullshit in an attempt to let it just die. Have major media companies been picking up on RE5? Or is it just some articles by gaming sites saying "Well this can look racist, let's go and make sure everyone knows this can be racist!" I'm sure there have been a few complaints but articles like that Eurogamer one are just asking this issue to be put for everyone to see, when it probably wouldn't have had people just stopped trying to create controversy.
I'll say it again... the only people talking about this game right now are people looking forward to it. But day one, some soccer mom is going to buy it for her 8-year-old without knowing a thing about it, watch him play it for 30 seconds, and then run screaming to her local news station.
Well that woman is an idiot. Who the fuck would buy thier 8 year old a resident evil game.
Hell what shop would sell it to her, knowing it was for a child?
Address the bold comment only. I think the rule is, at least in EB, that as long as the parent gives the OK, you have to sell the kid the game. I have seen clerks say things like, "Just to let you know sir, this game contains X and is rated M for mature. Do you still want to buy it?" and the parent says yes. And they have to sell it to the person, even if they know it was for the child.
It would be no different if the parent bought it on her own and then just gave it to the kid.
As an aside, I am also a bit nervous about the backlash this game might get. I mean, look at what happened to GTA: SA.
This game wasn't a day one purchase for me for some reasons I won't get into, but if there is any hint that this could get pulled off the shelves, I am going to snatch up a copy ASAP.
Unfortunately it seems like most white Americans think that this subject matter is something that we can never touch on because we're all afraid of hurting somebody's feelings. Yes, racism IS still a touchy subject in America. I really don't think that anyone here can deny that. But it's important to be able to tell the difference between racism and not-racism being performed on not-zombies. The game WANTS to push buttons, it WANTS you to feel uncomfortable. I seem to remember the director of RE4 saying something about the importance of not making the Ganados into simple zombies. He wanted people to fear the new not-zombies because they were not-zombies, but intelligent people who could think and act as a group. Remember the scenes behind the credits of RE4? We're supposed to feel bad about killing all of those villagers. There was no "transformation sequence" in RE4, and Ganados looked like normal people (no red eyes) until night fall.
The people in the village in Africa have already been exposed to the plagas/virus hybrid by the time Chris is deployed there. The people are already infected, okay? That bag beating scene? Not-zombies.
Also, the undeniable fact: it's a game. A game in which people can take an entire clip from a hand gun before dieing, herbs heal EVERYTHING, zombies (er, not-zombies) come at you in droves and some blonde dude with cheap sunglasses and a nasally voice teleports across a room while delivering an over-the-top monologue and punches you in the gut.
If you feel bad about shooting black not-zombies at first then you're probably about normal, but if you claim it's racism then chances are you're a twat.
If this game is actually racist (which it may be), I'm wondering why everybody cares so much.
I care about the way that gender, race etc are represented in the media because it affects how people think. When I see something I percieve as troublesome I point this out and criticise it.
So, does violence portrayed in games affect how people think about violence? If Capcom is racist for RE5, then is Valve homicidal sociopathic for L4D?
Short answer, yes. Longer answer. It's debateable to how much it encourages it, to the length it does so, (I doubt it's any notable amount for either), or the type of violence and is easily counteracted with decent parenting, able to be indulged in in safe ways (sports etc) and doesn’t affect some children. It’s also something we’re explicitly told not to do, taught the dangers of etc. Whereas racism and sexism are complicit and widespread in our culture whilst being far more complicated acceptable and insidious.
I am, quite frankly, sick of the African-American/German/Canadian/British racist debate
Breaking news, RE6 to be set in Toronto in the dead of winter, enemies will be hockey players and lumberjacks suffering from "beaver fever." Capcom feels that locating their new title in Canada will avoid any allegations of racism, because no one gives a shit about Canadians anyways.
Oh my god I would not fuck with zombie lumberjacks or hockey players. Hockey players are already borderline zombies!
I suppose this entire racism debate is along the same side of video-game violence. I used to be unable to relate to people's pain because I simply didn't care. As time went on, video-games and other forms of entertainment (horror movies, etc) gave me a real ability for imagining other people's pain. It's to the point where I really consider how people die in books and things. People say covering their ears and saying "NO RACISM NO RACISM" is silly and won't make the RE5 controversy go away. People uncovering their mouths and screaming "RACISM! RACISM!" won't make the racism go away, either. It's something that needs to be worked at and we're on a solid path already, but it's nowhere near over. Until we can start accepting things like RE5 at their most basic value without considering race, we will never get past the colour of people's skin.
I am, quite frankly, sick of the African-American/German/Canadian/British racist debate because we're probably at a point in our society where racism is as rare and uncommon as it can get.
I'm sorry, but this is quite frankly, an incredibly and ridiculously idiotic thing to say. I don't know if you're American, but we just went through an election where I saw more overt as well as dog-whistle racism than at any other time in my life. Membership in white supremacist groups is growing across the nation.
The fact that we ended up electing a black man is fantastic and truly a sign of how far we've come, but racism in the populace is by no means "rare and uncommon as it can get."
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Unfortunately it seems like most white Americans think that this subject matter is something that we can never touch on because we're all afraid of hurting somebody's feelings. Yes, racism IS still a touchy subject in America. I really don't think that anyone here can deny that. But it's important to be able to tell the difference between racism and not-racism being performed on not-zombies. The game WANTS to push buttons, it WANTS you to feel uncomfortable. I seem to remember the director of RE4 saying something about the importance of not making the Ganados into simple zombies. He wanted people to fear the new not-zombies because they were not-zombies, but intelligent people who could think and act as a group. Remember the scenes behind the credits of RE4? We're supposed to feel bad about killing all of those villagers. There was no "transformation sequence" in RE4, and Ganados looked like normal people (no red eyes) until night fall.
The people in the village in Africa have already been exposed to the plagas/virus hybrid by the time Chris is deployed there. The people are already infected, okay? That bag beating scene? Not-zombies.
Also, the undeniable fact: it's a game. A game in which people can take an entire clip from a hand gun before dieing, herbs heal EVERYTHING, zombies (er, not-zombies) come at you in droves and some blonde dude with cheap sunglasses and a nasally voice teleports across a room while delivering an over-the-top monologue and punches you in the gut.
If you feel bad about shooting black not-zombies at first then you're probably about normal, but if you claim it's racism then chances are you're a twat.
Also, the game is going to be as absolutely ridiculous as the last one
If this game is actually racist (which it may be), I'm wondering why everybody cares so much.
I care about the way that gender, race etc are represented in the media because it affects how people think. When I see something I percieve as troublesome I point this out and criticise it.
So, does violence portrayed in games affect how people think about violence? If Capcom is racist for RE5, then is Valve homicidal sociopathic for L4D?
Short answer, yes. Longer answer. It's debateable to how much it encourages it, to the length it does so, (I doubt it's any notable amount for either), or the type of violence and is easily counteracted with decent parenting, able to be indulged in in safe ways (sports etc) and doesn’t affect some children. It’s also something we’re explicitly told not to do, taught the dangers of etc. Whereas racism and sexism are complicit and widespread in our culture whilst being far more complicated acceptable and insidious.
I could argue exactly the opposite. I get bombarded by messages that racism is wrong, yet I see constant stream of violence on TV, movies and games, most of it without comment on how wrong it is.
This topic for example, when was the last time Eurogamer wrote an article about their concerns about the violence in a videogame.
I am, quite frankly, sick of the African-American/German/Canadian/British racist debate
Breaking news, RE6 to be set in Toronto in the dead of winter, enemies will be hockey players and lumberjacks suffering from "beaver fever." Capcom feels that locating their new title in Canada will avoid any allegations of racism, because no one gives a shit about Canadians anyways.
This brought a giggle to me, wrapped in a beautiful package with a great big bow
Final boss is
Celine Dion
Sales are expected to be in the billions.
PeregrineFalcon on
Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
I could argue exactly the opposite. I get bombarded by messages that racism is wrong, yet I see constant stream of violence on TV, movies and games, most of it without comment on how wrong it is.
This topic for example, when was the last time Eurogamer wrote an article about their concerns about the violence in a videogame.
Can you engage safetly in violence? Y/N. Can you somehow 'safetly' engage in racism or its ilk? Y/N. If Y please explain how. Also violence can be required, is racism ever required?
I am, quite frankly, sick of the African-American/German/Canadian/British racist debate because we're probably at a point in our society where racism is as rare and uncommon as it can get.
I'm sorry, but this is quite frankly, an incredibly and ridiculously idiotic thing to say. I don't know if you're American, but we just went through an election where I saw more overt as well as dog-whistle racism than at any other time in my life. Membership in white supremacist groups is growing across the nation.
The fact that we ended up electing a black man is fantastic and truly a sign of how far we've come, but racism in the populace is by no means "rare and uncommon as it can get."
You forget that people are meant to hate and it can't be bred out of us, regardless of how hard we try.
Faffel on
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KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
edited February 2009
Why did no one start a thread about the racism in "Mad World" yet?
You kill black&white people in the worst imaginable ways.
I am, quite frankly, sick of the African-American/German/Canadian/British racist debate because we're probably at a point in our society where racism is as rare and uncommon as it can get.
I'm sorry, but this is quite frankly, an incredibly and ridiculously idiotic thing to say. I don't know if you're American, but we just went through an election where I saw more overt as well as dog-whistle racism than at any other time in my life. Membership in white supremacist groups is growing across the nation.
The fact that we ended up electing a black man is fantastic and truly a sign of how far we've come, but racism in the populace is by no means "rare and uncommon as it can get."
You forget that people are meant to hate and it can't be bred out of us, regardless of how hard we try.
We trained millions of men to run into almost certain death time and time again, bullshit we can't teach them not to be hateful.
Racism is bad, this is not racism. White person kills a black person /= racism.
Edit on the general note of racism, I as a white male, do not feel any pity for africans for what my ancestors may or may not have done 100 years ago.
That's probably because you're not very intelligent.
So wait, people are supposed to feel bad for the wrongs of their ancestors generations back? In that case, anyone here of English blood can go ahead and apologize to me for the enslavement of my ancestors in the 1600s.
Actually... don't worry about it, because it would be completely unreasonable for me to expect anyone to feel bad for something their long-dead ancestors did to my long-dead ancestors hundreds of years before any of us were even born.
You don't have to mean it, but you have to say it if you want to be accepted in today's society.
You do realize how racist that is, right?
Nonsense, my sarcastic support of political correctness applies to all ancestral slave-owners equally.
You do realize that not every single white person is descendant from slave owners?
Sombody alert the news!
Wait, where do I check my ancestral slave-owner status? xbox live profile? windows control panel?
...
Ogrimmar?
This quote chain needs to stop. The man says he doesn't "pity" people in awful, awful situations merely because it's not his fault.
Not that he doesn't feel responsible, but that he does not feel pity. As in, "it's their problem, let them deal with it." MikeMan wasn't planting his flag for reparation payments, just human empathy and social understanding.
Edit: before the thread totally falls into sarcasm, I'd just like to chip in on the side of "imagery is powerful and affects our perceptions, which in turn affect our actions" side. Because, you know, it's true.
I could argue exactly the opposite. I get bombarded by messages that racism is wrong, yet I see constant stream of violence on TV, movies and games, most of it without comment on how wrong it is.
This topic for example, when was the last time Eurogamer wrote an article about their concerns about the violence in a videogame.
Can you engage safetly in violence? Y/N. Can you somehow 'safetly' engage in racism or its ilk? Y/N. If Y please explain how. Also violence can be required, is racism ever required?
Racism is bad, this is not racism. White person kills a black person /= racism.
Edit on the general note of racism, I as a white male, do not feel any pity for africans for what my ancestors may or may not have done 100 years ago.
That's probably because you're not very intelligent.
So wait, people are supposed to feel bad for the wrongs of their ancestors generations back? In that case, anyone here of English blood can go ahead and apologize to me for the enslavement of my ancestors in the 1600s.
Actually... don't worry about it, because it would be completely unreasonable for me to expect anyone to feel bad for something their long-dead ancestors did to my long-dead ancestors hundreds of years before any of us were even born.
You don't have to mean it, but you have to say it if you want to be accepted in today's society.
You do realize how racist that is, right?
Nonsense, my sarcastic support of political correctness applies to all ancestral slave-owners equally.
You do realize that not every single white person is descendant from slave owners?
That you got "white person" from "all ancestral slave-owners" is very telling.
I could argue exactly the opposite. I get bombarded by messages that racism is wrong, yet I see constant stream of violence on TV, movies and games, most of it without comment on how wrong it is.
This topic for example, when was the last time Eurogamer wrote an article about their concerns about the violence in a videogame.
Can you engage safetly in violence? Y/N. Can you somehow 'safetly' engage in racism or its ilk? Y/N. If Y please explain how. Also violence can be required, is racism ever required?
I could argue exactly the opposite. I get bombarded by messages that racism is wrong, yet I see constant stream of violence on TV, movies and games, most of it without comment on how wrong it is.
This topic for example, when was the last time Eurogamer wrote an article about their concerns about the violence in a videogame.
Can you engage safetly in violence? Y/N. Can you somehow 'safetly' engage in racism or its ilk? Y/N. If Y please explain how. Also violence can be required, is racism ever required?
Engage safely? What does that even mean?
And why is violence required?
People acknowledge that violence is sometimes necessary. Most games where the hero isn't meant to be morally questionable involve violence when it is considered necessary. WWII games and games against an armed enemy that can't be negotiated with for example.
I am, quite frankly, sick of the African-American/German/Canadian/British racist debate because we're probably at a point in our society where racism is as rare and uncommon as it can get.
I'm sorry, but this is quite frankly, an incredibly and ridiculously idiotic thing to say. I don't know if you're American, but we just went through an election where I saw more overt as well as dog-whistle racism than at any other time in my life. Membership in white supremacist groups is growing across the nation.
The fact that we ended up electing a black man is fantastic and truly a sign of how far we've come, but racism in the populace is by no means "rare and uncommon as it can get."
You forget that people are meant to hate and it can't be bred out of us, regardless of how hard we try.
We trained millions of men to run into almost certain death time and time again, bullshit we can't teach them not to be hateful.
The difference is that it's in our nature to fight and die. The entire span of human history disagrees with you and I truly don't believe that racism will ever be abolished. It can be lowered a significant amount to be sure, but there were will always be ignorant people who hate for reasons far too insignificant to even count.
It's clear to me everyone is a fricken hypocrite, they're all little Jack Thompsons, the only difference is which topic they choose to be offended by. If it's not one of those they're all for leaving it along, as soon it's one of those that offend them, get out of the way between them and that soapbox because they'll stampede you in their eagerness to race each other there so they can get morally outraged.
I could argue exactly the opposite. I get bombarded by messages that racism is wrong, yet I see constant stream of violence on TV, movies and games, most of it without comment on how wrong it is.
This topic for example, when was the last time Eurogamer wrote an article about their concerns about the violence in a videogame.
Can you engage safetly in violence? Y/N. Can you somehow 'safetly' engage in racism or its ilk? Y/N. If Y please explain how. Also violence can be required, is racism ever required?
Engage safely? What does that even mean?
And why is violence required?
People acknowledge that violence is sometimes necessary. Most games where the hero isn't meant to be morally questionable involve violence when it is considered necessary. WWII games and games against an armed enemy that can't be negotiated with for example.
And the good games show how fucking stupid this is.
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It's not just that they're shooting black people, it's that they're shooting (what could be seen as) caricatures of black people. They look and act like evil demons. The Hotel Rwanda example was pretty apt... no one had a problem with it because the characters there weren't one-dimensional. (Not to mention based on actual events.)
You'd be shocked at how many moms bought their young kids GTA games, even after being warned it's not really appropriate, and then threw a fit afterward.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorke's_Drift
Wait, where do I check my ancestral slave-owner status? xbox live profile? windows control panel?
...
Ogrimmar?
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
The point is, once you give in to this charge, there is going to be a feeding frenzy by every agenda driven group out there looking to make some noise and get offended at something. I'm just trying to tell all the people who are making a big deal out of this, that this is where they're heading, and maybe they should consider that before they take their pitches and forks and charge Capcom's castle.
Seeing how RE5 could be interpreted as racist by reasonable people =/= thinking RE5 is racist =/= supporting banning RE5.
Every step of the logical train you seem to be following is disjointed. I can see how RE5 would be seen as being racist without finding it objectionable myself. I could think RE5 was as racist as a Klan rally and not want to see it banned. No one here has even MENTIONED banning the game or storming Capcom's castle with a boycott or anything. We're just saying, what rock do you have to live under to not se how this could be construed as racist by a large portion of the market they're releasing it in?
Because people are going to get riled up about this game and then take up their pitchforks against a lot more games. Remember, after the Hot Coffee crapola there were close to a dozen states that passed laws criminalizing the sale of mature games to minors (or similar). Fortunately they were all struck down.
Anyway, the point is the lack of foresight in this game is going to cause a lot of gamers headaches.
Edit: And spamfilter, we're not advocating neutering the game. If Capcom had depicted Sheva as an actual African rather than someone with at least two generations' worth of white genes in their system and done nothing else, we would have avoided most of the controversy.
I just really cannot get behind it. Nobody would be upset at all if the setting was really similar but it took place in the Middle-East, because it's alright for them to be portrayed as crazed barbarians. I am, quite frankly, sick of the African-American/German/Canadian/British racist debate because we're probably at a point in our society where racism is as rare and uncommon as it can get. I love killing zombies. I love going into third-world countries and wiping out the local populace under the guise of being some good guy mass-murderer. I also love Africa because it's a beautiful country with lots of interesting things going on, along with a lot of brutality.
I also love zombies more than I love anything else in life. I don't understand why people think all black people have to be portrayed in a positive light. Bad shit happens in the world and bad shit happens in Africa. Does there have to be a massive physical difference in the appearance of your enemies before them being black is alright? Are black people so mindless that the mental sickness that comes via zombification doesn't matter because they're black? The entire situations bothers me more than any racism because none of this would be an issue if they were white. And the only reason people are complaining is because the black people look like black people with La Plaga features.
The fact that the media is going to jump on this and tear it to shreds doesn't change any of that for me, because superficial media uproar isn't going to change my opinion. I think it's pretty goddamn condescending when anything not involving white people can be called racist so easily - the entire world doesn't need to be coddled and protected and thinking it does seems approaching racist, too. We're not the only adult race around, folks.
I guess for me, it's not that I can't see it, it's just that I am sick of seeing these things happen because 85% of the world are idiots.
So to make Pancake happy(cause she should be happy, she's a pancake):
This game can and will be seen as racist because of it's subject matter and the presentation thereof to people who will see scenes of the gameplay/cutscenes out of context.
I care about the way that gender, race etc are represented in the media because it affects how people think. When I see something I percieve as troublesome I point this out and criticise it. I'm sorry this is so offensive to you.
Jesus guys, I grew up in one of if not the most multi-cultural places in the world and guess what? Racism was still a fucking problem. It's not something consigned to the bin of history.
Breaking news, RE6 to be set in Toronto in the dead of winter, enemies will be hockey players and lumberjacks suffering from "beaver fever." Capcom feels that locating their new title in Canada will avoid any allegations of racism, because no one gives a shit about Canadians anyways.
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So, does violence portrayed in games affect how people think about violence? If Capcom is racist for RE5, then is Valve homicidal sociopathic for L4D?
This brought a giggle to me, wrapped in a beautiful package with a great big bow
Obviously what one contracts when one has been in the woods so long chopping down trees that beavers begin to become sexually arousing
Address the bold comment only. I think the rule is, at least in EB, that as long as the parent gives the OK, you have to sell the kid the game. I have seen clerks say things like, "Just to let you know sir, this game contains X and is rated M for mature. Do you still want to buy it?" and the parent says yes. And they have to sell it to the person, even if they know it was for the child.
It would be no different if the parent bought it on her own and then just gave it to the kid.
As an aside, I am also a bit nervous about the backlash this game might get. I mean, look at what happened to GTA: SA.
This game wasn't a day one purchase for me for some reasons I won't get into, but if there is any hint that this could get pulled off the shelves, I am going to snatch up a copy ASAP.
The people in the village in Africa have already been exposed to the plagas/virus hybrid by the time Chris is deployed there. The people are already infected, okay? That bag beating scene? Not-zombies.
Also, the undeniable fact: it's a game. A game in which people can take an entire clip from a hand gun before dieing, herbs heal EVERYTHING, zombies (er, not-zombies) come at you in droves and some blonde dude with cheap sunglasses and a nasally voice teleports across a room while delivering an over-the-top monologue and punches you in the gut.
If you feel bad about shooting black not-zombies at first then you're probably about normal, but if you claim it's racism then chances are you're a twat.
Short answer, yes. Longer answer. It's debateable to how much it encourages it, to the length it does so, (I doubt it's any notable amount for either), or the type of violence and is easily counteracted with decent parenting, able to be indulged in in safe ways (sports etc) and doesn’t affect some children. It’s also something we’re explicitly told not to do, taught the dangers of etc. Whereas racism and sexism are complicit and widespread in our culture whilst being far more complicated acceptable and insidious.
Oh my god I would not fuck with zombie lumberjacks or hockey players. Hockey players are already borderline zombies!
I suppose this entire racism debate is along the same side of video-game violence. I used to be unable to relate to people's pain because I simply didn't care. As time went on, video-games and other forms of entertainment (horror movies, etc) gave me a real ability for imagining other people's pain. It's to the point where I really consider how people die in books and things. People say covering their ears and saying "NO RACISM NO RACISM" is silly and won't make the RE5 controversy go away. People uncovering their mouths and screaming "RACISM! RACISM!" won't make the racism go away, either. It's something that needs to be worked at and we're on a solid path already, but it's nowhere near over. Until we can start accepting things like RE5 at their most basic value without considering race, we will never get past the colour of people's skin.
I'm sorry, but this is quite frankly, an incredibly and ridiculously idiotic thing to say. I don't know if you're American, but we just went through an election where I saw more overt as well as dog-whistle racism than at any other time in my life. Membership in white supremacist groups is growing across the nation.
The fact that we ended up electing a black man is fantastic and truly a sign of how far we've come, but racism in the populace is by no means "rare and uncommon as it can get."
I could argue exactly the opposite. I get bombarded by messages that racism is wrong, yet I see constant stream of violence on TV, movies and games, most of it without comment on how wrong it is.
This topic for example, when was the last time Eurogamer wrote an article about their concerns about the violence in a videogame.
Final boss is
Sales are expected to be in the billions.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
Can you engage safetly in violence? Y/N. Can you somehow 'safetly' engage in racism or its ilk? Y/N. If Y please explain how. Also violence can be required, is racism ever required?
You forget that people are meant to hate and it can't be bred out of us, regardless of how hard we try.
You kill black&white people in the worst imaginable ways.
That's because they're black AND white. Duh. :P
We trained millions of men to run into almost certain death time and time again, bullshit we can't teach them not to be hateful.
Maybe they should just turn everyone in RE5 blue?
Hey, I don't think there has been any lumber jacking in here.
This quote chain needs to stop. The man says he doesn't "pity" people in awful, awful situations merely because it's not his fault.
Not that he doesn't feel responsible, but that he does not feel pity. As in, "it's their problem, let them deal with it." MikeMan wasn't planting his flag for reparation payments, just human empathy and social understanding.
Edit: before the thread totally falls into sarcasm, I'd just like to chip in on the side of "imagery is powerful and affects our perceptions, which in turn affect our actions" side. Because, you know, it's true.
Engage safely? What does that even mean?
And why is violence required?
That you got "white person" from "all ancestral slave-owners" is very telling.
Police, military, self defense etc.
People acknowledge that violence is sometimes necessary. Most games where the hero isn't meant to be morally questionable involve violence when it is considered necessary. WWII games and games against an armed enemy that can't be negotiated with for example.
The difference is that it's in our nature to fight and die. The entire span of human history disagrees with you and I truly don't believe that racism will ever be abolished. It can be lowered a significant amount to be sure, but there were will always be ignorant people who hate for reasons far too insignificant to even count.
And the good games show how fucking stupid this is.