The New Sonic Thread for Bitchin' and Reminiscin'

Speed Racer

maximumzero wrote: »

Rent wrote: »

maximumzero wrote: »

Unleashed was a great game that too many people blindly ignored because it's "cool" to hate on Sonic now.

snip]

You know, that game would have probably been pretty decent if it was actually finished

If they didn't have to rush it out for a Christmas release it probably would have been just as good or Sonic Adventure 1/2, gameplay wise.

No, because some of the worst shit was in the parts that WERE finished:

AAAAAAAHHHHHH

maximumzero

Speed Racer wrote: »

maximumzero wrote: »

Rent wrote: »

maximumzero wrote: »

Unleashed was a great game that too many people blindly ignored because it's "cool" to hate on Sonic now.

snip]

You know, that game would have probably been pretty decent if it was actually finished

If they didn't have to rush it out for a Christmas release it probably would have been just as good or Sonic Adventure 1/2, gameplay wise.

No, because some of the worst shit was in the parts that WERE finished:

AAAAAAAHHHHHH

That's why I said gameplay specifically and not "story".

Ashcroft

Trynant wrote: »

Ashcroft wrote: »

Trynant wrote: »

On the subject of Unleashed,

I was actually pleased with the night-time Sonic play. It takes a lot from God of War's excellent gameplay, and this is no bad thing.

You have got to be fucking shitting me.

Unleashed's Werehog sections are complete toss. Borderline unplayable, with nothing but repetitive enemies, and constant hammering of one or 2 buttons with no skill involved. It's not even within a million miles of God of War, it's like you're comparing a Ferrari to a pair of broken rollerskates.

They very first thing anyone should do if they buy Sonic Unleashed, is head to Gamefaqs and download the completed save file, so you can slip the night stages and just play the day ones.

I'll give you the repetitive enemies, but the werehog sections are certainly playable and, dare I say it, enjoyable! The game requires two buttons to mash? Well how many buttons were required to build combos in God of War, Ninja Gaiden and the later Devil May Cry games? Two. The werehog stages are built around a pretty damn solid combat system that is pretty damn similar to many of the action games I mentioned.

I'm not saying that Sonic the Werehog is as fun to play as Kratos or Ryu or Dante/Nero, but he's not a total loss.

Or I may be tickled by the fact that there is a Sho-Hog-Ken.

Or, you may just have the worst taste in games this side of the Daikatana fan club. The fact you're trying to compare utter shite like the Werehog sections to some of the finest action games ever made, makes me think that you either work for Sega, or you have serious brain damage. Not joking, if you don't work for Sega, see a doctor, you have a tumour up there.

Evan Waters

maximumzero wrote: »

Speed Racer wrote: »

maximumzero wrote: »

Rent wrote: »

maximumzero wrote: »

Unleashed was a great game that too many people blindly ignored because it's "cool" to hate on Sonic now.

snip]

You know, that game would have probably been pretty decent if it was actually finished

If they didn't have to rush it out for a Christmas release it probably would have been just as good or Sonic Adventure 1/2, gameplay wise.

No, because some of the worst shit was in the parts that WERE finished:

AAAAAAAHHHHHH

That's why I said gameplay specifically and not "story".

Nah, the levels are counterintuitive, fighting enemies who can all take multiple hits is laborious, "Mach Speed" was a bad idea to start with- it was a perfect storm of bad ideas and rushed execution.

Ashcroft

I can only assume that Sonic 2006 was designed as a way to make a funny Let's Play.

jothki

Xagarath wrote: »

Ah, now I remember.
Black Knight is interesting because Sega haven't gone "No guys seriously this will be a return to the classic Sonic gameplay this time we really mean it promise"
This improves the odds significantly it will actually be any good, since all the evidence of the past 10 years is that Sega have forgotten how to do traditional Sonic, but can still make decent games of other kinds.

Much of the quality of a higher-budget game seems to be dependent on how strong of a grasp the developers have on what the game is supposed to be like. Sonic 2006 and Sonic Unleashed are good examples of what happens when they don't know what they're doing.

This game seems to be primarily about Sonic running around and slashing things. It's possible to screw that up, sure, but it's more difficult when you've spent a whole bunch of time just focusing on Sonic running around and slashing things.

LBD_Nytetrayn

I rather enjoyed Sonic Adventure 1 and 2. Used to replay the second one a lot, in fact. 1, I rather disliked Big's part... damn frog would never take the bait, and more fish kept getting added to the pool.

Igort wrote: »

LBD_Nytetrayn wrote: »

As for Unleashed, I'm unfortunately stuck with the 360 one (no downloading saves that I know of), and that damn Tornado segment was enough to brickwall me on the game. I have better things to play.

You mean those QTE air levels right? I hear a lot of people complaining about those bits, but I managed them first time, and didn't think they were too bad at all. The only part of the game I'm having trouble with is the final boss.

It's the boss of the QTE that I have the most trouble with, and thinking about it, I'm wondering if part of it isn't because I'm on a regular TV, not widescreen or HD, because sometimes he'll be offscreen at the left, launching crap I can't see until it's halfway in my face.

That, and repeated "fire all weapons!" is more than I can keep up with. I don't know the Xbox 360's button layout that intuitively, which is a major hindrance.

Before actually playing it, I thought the buttons would flash on the screen or something, or the way Tails' plane is shaped, maybe have a button appear in the quadrant that corresponds to that button quadrant on the controller, but no, you just have little buttons appearing over the enemies, wherever they are, making for a total pain.

The worst part is that I WILL hit a button that corresponds to the enemies, and I'll often either get a buzzing sound or Tails telling me to settle down as we get slammed with missile after missile.

Just... fuck it.

I'm glad I only paid 20 bucks for it, but I'm tempted to contact SEGA and say I'm a dissatisfied customer, and want my money back (or give me Black Knight, whatever). I know it won't go anywhere, but it seems like it would be more fun as a diversion than the QTEs, especially since it's not an uncommon business practice for anything but games.

Clint Eastwood

I played the unleashed demo (in which you play the first normal sonic level, I believe) and hated it, which kind of surprised me. I didn't feel like I had any control over my character.

This new one's premise is godawful but if it gets good reviews from some other places I might give it a rent.

Rent

Ashcroft wrote: »

I can only assume that Sonic 2006 was designed as a way to make a funny Let's Play.

You are my new favorite poster ever

I think I'm pissed about the Sonic games et al because it'll sell twenty hojillion copies whilst Valkyria Chronicles, one of the finest RPGs ever made, gets ignored.
SEEEEEGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGAAAAAAAAAAAA :evil:

LBD_Nytetrayn

More NYCC videos from GameSpot, now featuring less crowd noise.

Xagarath

Graphics are nice, and it doesn't have the unleashed problem of being so fast you can't actually see the level, but that looks a little bland and platform-free.
Hopefully it's the first level.
(EDIT: yeah, this seems to be the tutorial)

No rings? Hmm.

Clint Eastwood

That speed boost was a bit disorienting but the rest of that video looked decent. Hopefully it isn't all grinding.

AJAlkaline40

Xagarath wrote: »

Graphics are nice, and it doesn't have the unleashed problem of being so fast you can't actually see the level, but that looks a little bland and platform-free.
Hopefully it's the first level.
(EDIT: yeah, this seems to be the tutorial)

No rings? Hmm.

Yeah, that's actually one thing that seems fun about Unleashed that really isn't that great, the boost. I think it would be a better system if it was more reserved and difficult to get, like you had to collect a large number of rings or open a power-up container to get a limited boost. Then maybe they could bring back the spinball to compensate.

Speed Racer

I like the boost, but it could benefit from burning rings a bit faster.

Also the air boost can fuck off.

LBD_Nytetrayn

Xagarath wrote: »

No rings? Hmm.

Gold faeries become rings, I think.

Xagarath

LBD_Nytetrayn wrote: »

Xagarath wrote: »

No rings? Hmm.

Gold faeries become rings, I think.

I picked up on that, but ot seems a bit of an odd change to make.

Cameron_Talley

I still don't understand why Sega hasn't made a Retro-influenced Sonic game yet. Look at the success of New Super Mario Bros. and Mega Man 9. A Sonic game made exactly in the style of the Genesis games would do well, I think.

maximumzero

Cameron_Talley wrote: »

I still don't understand why Sega hasn't made a Retro-influenced Sonic game yet. Look at the success of New Super Mario Bros. and Mega Man 9. A Sonic game made exactly in the style of the Genesis games would do well, I think.

I'd post pictures of Sonic Advance 1-3, Sonic Pocket Adventure, and Sonic Rush & Sonic Rush Adventure but I'm too lazy to go looking.

Sixfortyfive

maximumzero wrote: »

Cameron_Talley wrote: »

I still don't understand why Sega hasn't made a Retro-influenced Sonic game yet. Look at the success of New Super Mario Bros. and Mega Man 9. A Sonic game made exactly in the style of the Genesis games would do well, I think.

I'd post pictures of Sonic Advance 1-3, Sonic Pocket Adventure, and Sonic Rush & Sonic Rush Adventure but I'm too lazy to go looking.

Being burned on Sonic Rush recommendations was the final nail in the series' coffin for me. There is no reason for me to take the opinions of present-day Sonic fans seriously after that one.

It may not be a bad game on all merits, but don't try and tell me it's like the classic series at all. Being slowed down by rolling is the silliest change to the game mechanics they've ever done, and that's saying a lot.

Cameron_Talley

maximumzero wrote: »

Cameron_Talley wrote: »

I still don't understand why Sega hasn't made a Retro-influenced Sonic game yet. Look at the success of New Super Mario Bros. and Mega Man 9. A Sonic game made exactly in the style of the Genesis games would do well, I think.

I'd post pictures of Sonic Advance 1-3, Sonic Pocket Adventure, and Sonic Rush & Sonic Rush Adventure but I'm too lazy to go looking.

No, I don't mean 2-D Sonic. I'm sure TSR would love to come here and explain why those games are NOT akin to the Genesis games, but I'll leave that to him.

I'm not saying they aren't bad games...but They aren't the same as the Genesis era games.

Etch

Ashcroft wrote: »

Trynant wrote: »

Ashcroft wrote: »

Trynant wrote: »

On the subject of Unleashed,

I was actually pleased with the night-time Sonic play. It takes a lot from God of War's excellent gameplay, and this is no bad thing.

You have got to be fucking shitting me.

Unleashed's Werehog sections are complete toss. Borderline unplayable, with nothing but repetitive enemies, and constant hammering of one or 2 buttons with no skill involved. It's not even within a million miles of God of War, it's like you're comparing a Ferrari to a pair of broken rollerskates.

They very first thing anyone should do if they buy Sonic Unleashed, is head to Gamefaqs and download the completed save file, so you can slip the night stages and just play the day ones.

I'll give you the repetitive enemies, but the werehog sections are certainly playable and, dare I say it, enjoyable! The game requires two buttons to mash? Well how many buttons were required to build combos in God of War, Ninja Gaiden and the later Devil May Cry games? Two. The werehog stages are built around a pretty damn solid combat system that is pretty damn similar to many of the action games I mentioned.

I'm not saying that Sonic the Werehog is as fun to play as Kratos or Ryu or Dante/Nero, but he's not a total loss.

Or I may be tickled by the fact that there is a Sho-Hog-Ken.

Or, you may just have the worst taste in games this side of the Daikatana fan club. The fact you're trying to compare utter shite like the Werehog sections to some of the finest action games ever made, makes me think that you either work for Sega, or you have serious brain damage. Not joking, if you don't work for Sega, see a doctor, you have a tumour up there.

Geez dude, what the hell makes you God-King of action games? He says that it's not as good, but similar and enjoyable, so that OBVIOUSLY makes him a Sega plant. The combat wasn't great, but I certainly enjoyed smashing little dudes together and throwing them at bigger enemies.

Some people like different things than you, that's no reason to talk down to them, especially about video games.

cloudeagle

So IGN has a hands-on of the latest game. Aaaannnnd...

This time director Tetsu Katano (lead programmer, Sonic Adventure games and Sonic Heroes) takes the blue blazer into the time of King Arthur and the Knights of the Roundtable, where he gains a magical sword and must work his way through a series of areas, both saving villagers and collecting rings, so that he might finally do battle with the king himself, who has become corrupted with power. A magician pulls Sonic into the era through a time warp and charges him with the task of saving the land -- a challenge he begrudgingly accepts as he wolfs down chili-dogs in a nicely produced cinematic that opens the storyline.

Cue multiple orgasms from TSR.

We've spent a few hours with Black Knight so far and the game seems to share more in common with Sonic Unleashed than it does with its storybook-themed predecessor, Secret Rings. This is primarily true because you control the hedgehog as you do in Unleashed, utilizing the nunchuk's analog stick to strafe him left and right as he soars through on-track environments. You'll have the freedom to slow down and jump backward if you pass by and object or enemy of interest, but the camera will not turn around, and thus the title oftentimes feels like an action racer. This straightforward, linear design allows the developer to keep Sonic mostly glued to a set path so that it can predict actions and supply players with a more cinematic presentation, which it has done with Black Knight. Sonic fans can once more look forward to some lightning fast, unpredictable track designs filed with rail slides, wall jumps and more. That being true, we have yet to encounter any trademark loop-de-loops or corkscrews.

In other words, no choice on paths.

Sonic regularly encounters evil guards and knights as he runs about environments, at which point the action will stall until he fights them off. You'll be able to strafe ever so slightly left and right with the nunchuk, erect a temporary frontal shield by holding Z button, jump and dive forward by pressing A button twice, or flip backward by holding back on the analog stick and pressing the same button. You can also jump into the air and waggle with the Wii remote to execute a sword spin attack.

Attacks are handled entirely with lots of Wii shakes and waggle. The game does not differentiate between horizontal and vertical swipes so you're free to shake aimlessly as you battle enemies. You can quickly string together multi-combo hits if you waggle incessantly. Combat seems to work passably, although we've noticed on several occasions that we're better off gesturing early as we soar toward enemies in order to cue the attacks as we come blazing upon them -- otherwise, they might attack first. Our favorite new fight mechanic. Gone are the traditional mid-air enemy lock-on attacks. Instead, the developer has engineered a new, highly cinematic lock-on system tied to the B-trigger. Press it and the action will slow into bullet-time, the camera will pan closer to Sonic, and a red reticule will appear around the nearest enemy. Gesture with the Wii remote and Sonic will zip toward them, sword drawn, and take them out, at which point the reticule will auto-lock on the next foe. This is how you execute multi-enemy attacks, but you'll need to be mindful of an on-screen meter that determines just how much time you can spend in the mode because when it runs out, you'll be back to regular waggle attacks and no more lock-on.

Is this the first time Sonic's had bullet time? I'm kinda surprised it took them this long.

Although speed junkies will find plenty of zippy action in Black Knight, Sonic Team has also included elements clearly designed to slow the action down. For example, obstacles that pop up in a flash, like spikes and crates, slamming the hedgehog to a dead stop in his tracks. And certain challenges require that Sonic slow down and interact with villagers in mid-level, rescuing them or giving them coins, before he can be on his way again.

Hooray.

SEGA's latest Wii-exclusive Sonic offering has production values to spare, whether it's the slick fully rendered cinematic, the amazingly stylized graphical interface (which looks like a medieval map) or the in-game engine, which regularly spits out fast-moving, detailed environments. And speed junkies will probably be pleased with some of the high-octane scenarios we've seen so far. Indeed, the game's biggest issue is once more tethered to the unrefined gimmick that Sonic Team has utilized as the backbone for the project. If the developer can quickly present some control alternatives before Black Knight ships, the end product may still impress. But all the loose waggling that comprises the present package is just as frustrating as interesting.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/952/952097p1.html

Well, my interest is down a bit after reading this.

Hexmage-PA

Sixfortyfive wrote: »

maximumzero wrote: »

Cameron_Talley wrote: »

I still don't understand why Sega hasn't made a Retro-influenced Sonic game yet. Look at the success of New Super Mario Bros. and Mega Man 9. A Sonic game made exactly in the style of the Genesis games would do well, I think.

I'd post pictures of Sonic Advance 1-3, Sonic Pocket Adventure, and Sonic Rush & Sonic Rush Adventure but I'm too lazy to go looking.

Being burned on Sonic Rush recommendations was the final nail in the series' coffin for me. There is no reason for me to take the opinions of present-day Sonic fans seriously after that one.

It may not be a bad game on all merits, but don't try and tell me it's like the classic series at all. Being slowed down by rolling is the silliest change to the game mechanics they've ever done, and that's saying a lot.

Yeah, that was fucking terrible.

Xagarath

It's really, really about time they actually tried sticking bullet time in the series as a mechanic.

Sixfortyfive

Xagarath wrote: »

It's really, really about time they actually tried sticking bullet time in the series as a mechanic.

Hey, it made Virtua Cop interesting at least.

RainbowDespair

Hm...my enthusiasm for the new Sonic game is way down after reading that IGN preview. Rather than fixing Sonic & the Secret Rings' problems & building on its solid foundation, it sounds like they just turned it into a Sonic Unleashed variant. Bleh.

Speed Racer

Fixing up either Unleashed's or SatSR's flaws would've made for a good game, but instead it sounds like they hamhandedly mashed them together. I'll give it a rent I guess.

UnbreakableVow

maximumzero wrote: »

Cameron_Talley wrote: »

I still don't understand why Sega hasn't made a Retro-influenced Sonic game yet. Look at the success of New Super Mario Bros. and Mega Man 9. A Sonic game made exactly in the style of the Genesis games would do well, I think.

I'd post pictures of Sonic Advance 1-3, Sonic Pocket Adventure, and Sonic Rush & Sonic Rush Adventure but I'm too lazy to go looking.

One for the real systems would probably be a better bet.

LBD_Nytetrayn

A new video up, with gameplay and Sonic facing Lancelot/Shadow at the end:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFhu9_FRxiE

The official website has launched, and it's got some neat touches to it, with nods to other SEGA games scattered across the background. You can also see the other characters armored up.

And speaking of which, it looks like Silver will be in the multiplayer mode, complete with his own armor.

FyreWulff

I got SA2B with the Gamecube, and remember liking it. I went back and played SADX when it came out for GC and wondered how people thought it was better than SA2.

Although my issues with SA2(B?):

- STORYLINE OH GOD WHY MY EYEBALLS
- Sonic and Shadow levels were decent. Sub missions were good, some of them were basically Sega telling us to go fuck ourselves.
- Tails and Robotnik levels were basically a better 3D Mega Man game than Capcom could ever make, but felt out of place. Not great, but not bad either.
- Preferred Knuckles treasure hunt levels over Rouge's. Don't know why. I think Knuckles levels tended to be more 'open'.
- Oh god the driving parts were horribly what was the point of that Sega jesus

Barrakketh

Xagarath wrote: »

It's really, really about time they actually tried sticking bullet time in the series as a mechanic.

Time Break from SatSR doesn't count?

Henroid

Ashcroft wrote: »

I can only assume that Sonic 2006 was designed as a way to make a funny Let's Play.

I'm watching this right now. Good lord, people paid money for this?

Cowbomb

FyreWulff wrote: »

I got SA2B with the Gamecube, and remember liking it. I went back and played SADX when it came out for GC and wondered how people thought it was better than SA2.

Although my issues with SA2(B?):

- STORYLINE OH GOD WHY MY EYEBALLS
- Sonic and Shadow levels were decent. Sub missions were good, some of them were basically Sega telling us to go fuck ourselves.
- Tails and Robotnik levels were basically a better 3D Mega Man game than Capcom could ever make, but felt out of place. Not great, but not bad either.
- Preferred Knuckles treasure hunt levels over Rouge's. Don't know why. I think Knuckles levels tended to be more 'open'.
- Oh god the driving parts were horribly what was the point of that Sega jesus

I still see SA2 as the last great Sonic game - the Sonic/Shadow levels were pretty much spot-on. They were fast, well thought out, and if you were good enough you could get through them looking like a smooth bastard (the grinding and homing attack make a pretty good translation of the momentum-based gameplay of the Mega Drive games). I thought the Tails/Robotnik levels were awesome too, and the Knuckles/Rouge ones were alright, though could've been tightened up a bit (the radar just wasn't good enough for how large the levels were).On top of that, there was loads to do, a heap of unlockables (Green Hill Zone!), a great soundtrack and some pretty tasty graphics.

Heroes really was a crushing dissapointment. Terrible, terrible game.

Xagarath

SA2 is, like SA1, pretty bad from a modern perspective.

Hexmage-PA

Xagarath wrote: »

SA2 is, like SA1, pretty bad from a modern perspective.

From a modern perspective Sonic 2006, Heroes, and pretty much everything after SA2 are all pieces of super mega shit.

Shadow the Hedgehog in particular was a black hole of ultra shittiness. "Oh, let's give players the option to fly through levels and completely miss mission objectives, forcing them to backtrack looking for that last soldier to kill." You couldn't even run in a straight fucking line in that game.

LBD_Nytetrayn

FyreWulff wrote: »

- Tails and Robotnik levels were basically a better 3D Mega Man game than Capcom could ever make, but felt out of place. Not great, but not bad either.

If we're talking Mega Man X7, then I agree with you. If we're talking MegaMan Legends, big disagreement.

FyreWulff

Eh, I tried Megaman 64, wanted to shoot myself in the face 20 minutes into it.

LBD_Nytetrayn

In fairness, I've rarely if ever seen that considered the better version of Legends.

greeble

So how many daytime levels are there in Unleashed? I'm trying to decide at what price point I pick it up. (I actually really liked the demo, but the werehog levels don't appeal to me.)

Igort

greeble wrote: »

So how many daytime levels are there in Unleashed? I'm trying to decide at what price point I pick it up. (I actually really liked the demo, but the werehog levels don't appeal to me.)

Spoiler'd Just in case:

Spoiler:

There are eight main day and night levels (known as the "Act 1" for each area) that you need to play-through, but there are also a few extra acts for some areas that are mainly optional, but there is a point in the game where you need to collect a large amount of Sun Coins, and playing these optional levels is a good way to go about getting them. Most of the day levels have 3 acts, but a couple only have two, where as the Night levels mainly have two acts, and some only have the main level, with no extra acts. Also, the final level switches between Day and Night several times.

Hope that helps.